TRPG General Chat

Alex P

00:00

@BESW I feel like the (1992?) Last of the Mohicans movie kinda missed some of this.

BESW

@AlexP All of the Last of the Mohicans films missed most of it.

The villain is sympathetic while still being villainous; he's overreacting, but he's a terribly tragic figure whose downfall and shame come directly from the problems of the cultural conflict zone.

Alex P

@BESW I really the most recent movie at least getting that half-right.

BESW

And one of the girls (the one who doesn't faint all the time) is revealed at the end to be of mixed race, and it's dealt with very seriously in terms of prejudice and justice.

Most of the adaptations leave that bit out, although it's kinda important.

Another cool thing about the novel --and which adds to my bafflement about the adaptations-- is that it's written like you're watching a film.

Decades before film was a thing, Cooper was writing as if the reader were watching scenes. He's got camera pan and zoom and everything.

I must confess, I couldn't watch the 1992 film. The opening scene had me sobbing with laughter and I couldn't go on.

The bit where they're "stalking" a deer, and it's just them crashing through the forest making every noise they possibly can. I just... no. If that's your idea of how to introduce a pair of cunning hunters who pride themselves on moving undetected through the forest --indeed, the plot hinges on their ability to do so-- then I'm done.

Alex P

The music for it is kinda nice. The movie is so-so.

BESW

Oh, yes. I like the stalker theme song.

Alex P

00:11

Well, at best.

It's pretty good game music, actually.

BESW

But even then--an Irish band for your gory Adirondacks boys' adventure about the English, French, and Native Americans, with a main character who draws from Puritan musical traditions? Nice choice, guys.

One of the few places where I totally disagree with Roger Ebert is when he called the original novel " all but unreadable."

Alex P

I mostly disagree with Ebert for... I forget what, but he hated on some really awesome sci-fi movie because he just didn't get it at all.

BESW

Heh. He's usually very canny, and he writes so that I can tell if I'll like the film whether he did or not.

But if he misses what the film was trying to do, that's when I'll strongly disagree with his conclusions. He appreciates films that succeed at what they set out to do, so if we disagree about the film's goals, we'll disagree about its success.

A good example is Stargate.

Although he brings up some very good points about its flaws, I think he'd have been more forgiving of them if he'd recognized the film as a deliberate genre throwback.

Alex P

Yeah, I do appreciate his writing regardless of whether I agree with him.

Which is what makes a good critic.

Zachiel

Bye bye guys. And Metools.

BESW

00:27

@Zachiel ttfn

mxyzplk

01:07

@BESW Appreciate all the flags and stuff, I dropped in right between church and gaming (~8h ago) and destroyed both of psycho boy's user IDs and deleted all the bad stuff. Haven't seen any weird activity since, but feel free and flag if anyone sees anything.

wax eagle

02:32

@mxyzplk just an fyi if you haven't already, might want to check him in the TL fo Jason/leslar matches

mxyzplk

@waxeagle What's a "Jason/leslar"

wax eagle

@mxyzplk troll that's been hitting several other sites

mxyzplk

ok

BESW

03:25

@mxyzplk Awesome, thanks. He seems to have found one of those once-in-a-blue-moon times when no mod was immediately around to smash the trolls.

He seems to have gotten bored and left when nobody rose to the bait.

user61230

"I'll chase you through the yard and all through the house into the dark; oh I, wanna steal your heart, and eat your brains."

Problematic

04:04

@Emrakul Sounds like a Poison song.

user61230

@Problematic youtube.com/watch?v=YCVMuevcCvY

user61230

It's the Zombie Love Song.

Problematic

I stand by my statement.

user61230

Fair enough :P

BESW

04:22

Christopher Eccleston on returning to the role of the Doctor:

> If Joe [Ahearne] agrees to direct the 100th anniversary special, I will bring my sonic and a stair-lift and – providing the Daleks don’t bring theirs – I, the ninth Doctor, vow to save the universe and all you apes in it.

(Translation: "When Hell freezes over and pigs grow wings.")

Source.

Alex P

04:49

Hmm, apparently 13th Age has this little gimmick:

> The escalation die is a d6 used as a tracker. It is set to 1 on the second combat turn, and gets higher each turn that your party is actively participating in combat. It's an all-around bonus to attack rolls and represents the increasing momentum of the fight.

(Forum quote, not game text.)

So I guess every round attacks and spells get harder to avoid?

That seems like an interesting "fix" for some D&D3.5 issues, if you adjust the other stats around it right. At the same time, I really don't think I would enjoy a game with this mechanic.

BESW

It would definitely change the tactical use of short-duration abilities.

You'd be inclined to hoard defensive features in order to compensate for long fights.

I'm not sure if you'd be inclined to hoard offensive features and wait until you're more likely to land them, or blow them early to end the fight and avoid getting hammered later.

Alex P

@BESW Yeah, that was my big question when I read it. Assuming it also has an affect on spells in a similar fashion, when would be the best time to bust out your save-or-die-equivalent or big control effect?

BESW

It'd depend on the capabilities of your opponents, I guess.

"Nail him before he can hit us easily," or "we can soak this, wait until we won't miss."

Alex P

05:16

I think the more I play with my wife, the more I'm not interested in team-play-focused mechanics (which are the bread-and-butter of 4E and, based on this example, probably 13th Age).

I think they naturally put the focus on group goals over individual goals.

Alex P

05:29

Because I've been doing a lot of kinda "selfish" play, and also I tend to look at "Okay, whose thing is this?" -- not in the sense of whose niche but who has the most to gain or lose -- more so than "Okay, what are we doing together?"

BESW

Interesting.

I've always been very fond of encouraging cooperative stories among my players, where everyone is mutually engaged.

This is because one of the things that attracts me to GMing is as a microcosm experiment in creating environments conducive to mutual cooperation and support.

Alex P

What I mean is like this:

Your character, a young knight, is the third-best fighter in the party. The hardened mercenary who's kinda your mentor is way better than you. The pirate captain, too, at least if it's a matter of dueling and not axes-and-armor...

But the focus of the current session is your revenge against the count who ruined your father's good name.

It's really appealing to actually have your character be the centerpiece of the climax.

(Which is pretty easy to do in any game that lets you stockpile metagame resources a bit and then pour them out into "This is my big dramatic spotlight moment!" moments.)

And I find that more satisfying than "So the bad guy was like a boss encounter, and we all fought him as a group."

BESW

05:45

Ah.

Yeah, I tried to do that in D&D, and although it wasn't exactly supported by the system, I was able to make it work pretty well if everyone worked with me.

Luckily I had players who were usually on the lookout for ways to engage personally with the environment and NPCs.

So it wasn't too hard to make the bad guy engage with whatever the PCs engaged with (when they weren't engaged with him directly).

For example, a PC who latched onto a historical warrior of his people as his role model. The warrior had gone mad at the end of his life and butchered lots of innocents--by revealing that his madness was connected to the Far Realm, I connected that PC's engagement about redeeming his hero's reputation with another PC's engagement about having been the subject of a Far Realm experiment.

So Far Realm encounters became personal for both of them.

It was convoluted, but it was what worked in the D&D context.

Magician

re: 13th age, I recall reading somewhere their monsters and/or encounters are tied to the escalation die. So a dragon might get a more powerful attack when the die is high enough. That might have been a homebrew, though.

Alex P

@Magician That's kinda interesting!

Makes it a full-fledged pacing mechanic.

Also saves the GM from having to make some of the tactical decisions PCs might have to be figuring out for each fight. :)

Magician

Yeah, the focus was on simplicity of abilities.

So, a couple of examples I've googled up:
" **Roar** . ... Roll a d6 at the start of the mannusiha’s turn; this attack only occurs when the d6 roll is greater than the escalation die and does not require an action."

" **Shadow Meld** : When the escalation die is odd, the Legionnaire phases into shadow, dealing half damage and taking half damage from all attacks.
**Shadow Strike** : When the escalation die is even, the Legionnaire may teleport behind a nearby enemy and attack with Shadowstrike."

aaaand autoformatting hates me.

I give up

BESW

06:02

That's cool.

Magician

This actually looks a lot more 4e than I expected. I thought it was more of a 3ed thing. Hm, may have to investigate further.

Alex P

Wasn't Heinsoo the main, like, 4e mechanics guy?

Magician

Huh, you're right. At the same time, Jonathan Tweed is a 3e designer. Still, no idea why I thought 13th age was more 3e than 4e.

Alex P

Tweet also did AM and Everway, IIRC. He's had quite the career.

BESW

Tweets to Campaign By presents a modest but entertaining motive:

John Oldfield, Denver, faked illness twelve times in three days just to get rides in an auto ambulance. Fined $15. CO1911

Tweeted by TweetsofOld on August 26, 2013 at 3:04 AM

Problematic

06:17

From the other chat, I read this as "John Denver faked illness..."

First thought: "typical."

Alex P

So, a bit more on that thing I was saying, about "spotlight" based on motivation rather than just skills: another way to promote that is to have lasting negative consequences.

E.g. in BW, wounds SUUUUUCK. So being willing to do something risky is a big deal on its own.

Magician

06:32

This reminds me of Becoming, a game I've kickstarted and will be playing this week, if all goes well. It looks absolutely fascinating. One hero, three Fates/GMs competing over who gets to subvert the hero the most (points are involved). The hero wins if he gets through the scenario while keeping at least some of what made them who they are. Fates win otherwise. Hero risks resources/allies/character traits to get extra dice, while Fates offer bargains for more power (dice) in exchange for same.

If it works, it could be brilliant. Rules are extremely simple, about 20 sparse pages in total.

BESW

Very cool! I'll want to hear about that.

Magician

I will write a post! I have written a post about Mythender, but it's awaiting an illustration...

Mythender is a small game that we've played over two evenings, and I wrote 2500 words about, because I can't seem to stop myself in time. I do wonder if people actually read those things. Judging by view counts so far, not really.

BESW

I look at 'em, though my interest depends on the system.

Magician

06:48

Understandable. The whole reason I'm doing this is to learn new systems, and perhaps spare others the pain of it.

BESW

Appreciated.

Definitely, if I'm thinking about a new system, I'll check out your thoughts on it.

Zachiel

12:05

19

Q: What are the major differences between D&D 3.0 and D&D 3.5

I found a bunch of D&D books at a used bookshop, but am now realizing half are 3.0 and half are 3.5... How compatible are these with each other? What are the major rule changes I'll need to watch out for if I'm using these together (or can I not even use them together)?

I've edited in what AceCalhoon said in the comment to my answer, but since I upvoted his comment I can''t flag it for deletion (obsolete comment), can someone flag it please?

BESW

Okay, but it's unlikely to be deleted.

Flagged anyway.

Zachiel

Even if I've added it to the answer?

BESW

(If a comment's got upvotes, the mods are much less likely to delete it unless it's doing active harm.)

Zachiel

oh, ok

BESW

I've got enough good flag karma from the troll last night that I can withstand some minor flagging irrelephance.

Zachiel

12:16

XD

BESW

It seems to have gone through anyway.

Okay, back to cursing DeviantArt for not having decent photographs of human teeth.

(Sometimes I like my job.)

Alex P

@Magician That sounds a lot like Polarls.

Zachiel

Sigh, Polaris

BESW

While searching for photos of human teeth to use in the poster, I found this. Naturally.

Alex P

@Zachiel Yeah, a Polaris that actually worked would be nice. Unlike Polaris. ;)

Zachiel

12:29

is this what you were looking for? martinpeschereccio.deviantart.com/art/My-teeth-27513139

@AlexP Not the problem. I was sure Polaris was a game for one-shots and I said that on a forum

However, Polaris is renowned to work well if it doesn't get derailed

Zachiel

12:43

@besw the link was for you, I forgot to @

BESW

@Zachiel Oh, thanks. Those are very nice teeth, but I need them out of the socket.

The theatre poster I'm working on is for a play that starts with one kid knocking another kid's teeth out with a stick, so I'm thinking about a design with two teeth, a branch, and some Dexter-style blood spatter.

So far I've found two that might work. It's hard to find ones that I can lift out of their context.

(And, you know, that the photographer has made available for commercial use.)

Zachiel

what about a cartoon-network style for the whole thing?

BESW

I want to avoid anything childish; that's the direction the posters for this play usually take, and I think it's inappropriate.

The story is actually about the parents of the kids and how poorly they handle the situation.

But the posters are all kiddish fonts and wide-ruled handwriting-practice paper.

Zachiel

I was thinking more at something like a Fiasco cover

BESW

Ah, flat silhouettes?

Zachiel

12:52

yes

BESW

That's closer to my usual style, and it's my fallback.

Zachiel

:)

BESW

My default style is textured closure.

Zachiel

I think that minimalistic style works well with few isolated elements like the ones in your idea - but the tone might not be what the client expects

BESW

I have no idea what the client expects until I meet with her in two days, at which time I'll have a week to finalize the thing.

Which means that if I don't go in with drafts to head her off, I won't have time to talk her down from whatever ideas she's going to try to sell me.

This is more my usual style.

But I think for this one, if I can have actual photographs of objects, it'd really pop.

Something visceral; it's not a nice play.

trogdor

12:59

@BESW from what I understand, the parents end up "acting" like children

Zachiel

I don't think I still have my milk teeth around. I used to keep everything when I was younger

trogdor

so a childish cover could be pretty appropriate

Zachiel

And by now the'd probably be dust

BESW

@trogdor Yes, but conveying that in the poster is going to be very difficult, at least until I have something more concrete to work with in terms of props and staging.

It can't be childish; it would have to be regressive.

Zachiel

otherwise I could have arranged them on the vegetable garden and...

trogdor

13:01

mk

anyway, to sleep I go

BESW

Something thematically along the lines of this poster would be appropriate.

But I probably don't have the chops to come up with something good in that vein in a week.

Zachiel

It's a play, right?

are the actors for the play in town?

BESW

It's a local performance.

Inbar Rose

Hi - I am going to start a new campaign with "Mage: The Ascension". I noticed they recently released a "revised" edition, from what I have read - it changes the metaplot of the game a lot... Any one have any opinions about whether I should use the new metaplot (and some new changed rules resulting) or stay with second edition (that I already know and love). Thanks! :)

Zachiel

are the actors for the play in town?

Or is it a foreign company?

BESW

13:13

@Zachiel It's the local university theatre's production, with local talent--most of them university students and faculty.

Zachiel

Sorry, I had a disconnection and the streams crossed

BESW

@InbarRose Alas, I know nothing of this!

Inbar Rose

@BESW So, in general - should I go with the story/plot that I know.

Or should I switch to the official revised version,

Zachiel

I'd have the guy who's gonna impersonate the father of the harmed child stand in a menacing pose, with his scene dress. The shadow on the wall behind him is that of a young boy keeping an hand on his cheek.
It's easier to find people than... teeth.

Inbar Rose

Which changes the metaplot slightly - and the rules slightly as well (to reflect the metaplot changes)

BESW

13:17

Hm. I don't have much experience with sticking to someone else's setting and events at all, really.

Inbar Rose

Okay....

Any experience with WOD/Mage?

Zachiel

@InbarRose I'd say do whatever pleases you and your group more, but be sure you all are on the same page with the setting

BESW

@Zachiel That's the other problem; I can get photos of the actors, but because the poster needs to be completed two weeks before the play opens, the costumes and sets are piecemeal and I can't rely on them even existing before my deadline hits.

Inbar Rose

"same page" - yes definitely.

Zachiel

I'm playing in a WoD short campaign right now

Inbar Rose

13:18

Which Wod?

new or old?

Zachiel

nWoD

Inbar Rose

ah, not the same thing

in oWoD there was a "metaplot" that was advanced every new edition of the books.... (very clever way to make money)

Zachiel

the one where you don't care about 1s on your die is new, is it?

Inbar Rose

yes

where 8/9/0 are success and there is no "difficulty"

Zachiel

I've played some one shots of oWoD

but I've never read the books of either

Inbar Rose

13:19

I see..

Zachiel

I manily play WoD because the Narrator is really great at... well, narrating

Inbar Rose

Well in oWoD all of the metaplots loomed around an "Apocalypse" or "Armageddon" like event.

Zachiel

Or is the GM called "Storyteller", in English?

Inbar Rose

The Mage metaplot addresses that by having one of the major groups (technocracy) overpower and kill the leaders of the other groups and bring a "wall" between the material and spirit world.... thus affecting much of the game

That is the revised plot.

Before that - it was a battle between the 9 other traditions and the technocracy.

Zachiel

My experience with similar things is D&D 4e's rendition of the new Forgotten Realms

are you familiar with it?

Inbar Rose

13:22

slightly

Some kind of crazy war?

BESW

@Zachiel "Storyteller," I think.

Inbar Rose

@Zachiel Storyteller in WoD yes.

Zachiel

since there are no more spells that allow you to shift between the planes, and most planes don't even exist anymore, a big cataclysm that erased them from existence or transformed some into 4e cosmology features was introduced.

BESW

(I've often thought it was an unfortunate term to choose.)

Zachiel

(marketing-wise? Oh, no)

BESW

13:24

No, in terms of the influence it had on gameplay.

Zachiel

The goddess of magic gets slain, worlds collide, new patches of land get imported from a parallel universe that always existed but was never detailed. With new player races living there.

Inbar Rose

Crazyness

BESW

Most of the White Wolf games I've seen or heard of were very much like yours--the Storyteller's ability to tell stories is the reason for play, sometimes to the point that the players are just tools for the ST to tell his own story.

Inbar Rose

No kidding.

BESW

Just like the phrase "dungeon master" enforces the perception of the DM as the all-powerful ruler of the game, the phrase "Storyteller" enforces the idea that the ST's narrative supercedes the players' agency.

Inbar Rose

13:26

But I want to know if the stories 'metaplot' should be after the technocracy have put a wall between the material world and the spirit world and killed all the powerful mages of other traditions and are hunting the survivors... or when it is before this in a more "cold war" setting

BESW

@InbarRose What kind of story does your group want to be telling? They sound very different.

Inbar Rose

They are.

I was wondering if anyone had experience with the former (revised) edition

Because from what I read - it reduces alot of the "fun" the game had in order to give it more "structure"

Zachiel

I must say that, given a Storyteller that's really able to take elements from your background to seed the story (a thing that the manuals, AFAIK, don't teach you) and is able to force you into bad choices, it gives me an emotional thrill and enough curiosity to actively findd out what's happening. The clutch is that every time we discover something, some new mystery comes out.

Inbar Rose

I am pretty sure that simply my being in this chat and asking this question is influencing me as I type these words... I kind of feel like "screw the new system" and I will go with what I know.

Zachiel

@InbarRose It also reminds me of Planescape's Faction Wars

Inbar Rose

13:29

@Zachiel Not familiar with it.

BESW

@InbarRose So maybe the question is whether your group values structure enough to sacrifice whatever "fun" meant to the old version.

But you're wise to ask for experience-based input!

Inbar Rose

I feel like I should share this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mage:_The_Ascension

Just so that you can get a brief glimpse to what I am talking about... (if you wish to)

Zachiel

In planescape there's a floating city built in the inside of a torus, Sigil. It's ruled by a mysterious lady (known as "the Lady of Pain") who, at a certain point, decided to exile all the phylosophical factions that were rooted in the city. The Factions are the distinctive element of the setting.

The old Sigil had factions openly at war with each others, alliances and a hard cap on escalations that was "don't break the Lady's rules, don't kill her servants" (and more, but that would be a digression).
The new Sigil has... factions that got out of Sigil, factions that disbanded, factions that changed into societies or guilds or organized groups, just for them to be safe from the edict.

The kind of game you can have in these two contexts is really different

Each has its advantages. It's up to the players to choose which ones they want to explore

-but-

contrarily to the Forgotten Realms thing, there is no real reason between this metaplot change. There's no rules that work with the latter and don't with the former

so if your game has a similar change of rules, that might also be a choice points for you and your players. My suggestion is to ask them. Possibly when they all are in front of you at the same time, Same Page Tool style.

Inbar Rose

Okay.

That seems fair,.

leokhorn

Yay, Planescape!

/me goes back to lurking

BESW

14:06

@GamerJosh Hi!

BESW

14:24

M'rr. If we start listing all the differences between 3.0 and 3.5 in separate answers, we'll be here forever.

GamerJosh

@BESW hello =)

BESW

@GamerJosh Welcome! Anything in particular we can do for you, or that you'd like to talk about?

GamerJosh

@BESW Not right now, I don't think. I've been lurking for a few days. I'm a "retired" GM (in that I haven't run anything for quite a while), but I've been considering picking "the screen" back up--so I've just been watching the questions and chat to get my mind back into things. Thank you for the welcome--I'm not used to that on the internet. ;)

BESW

Ah, cool.

We try to be civil and personable; it is a nice change.

What system(s) did you play?

(And I notice that you have the Informed badge, so good on ya.)

GamerJosh

My first system was 2E AD&D... loved it. I played (but mostly ran) 3E for quite a while. I've also run Savage Worlds, and one game of Paranoia.

(Worlds easiest badge.)

(It's like calling "Here!" during attendance.)

BESW

14:31

Heheh. I wish more people felt that way.

You may have noticed that I've taken to referring new posters to the help and the about pages, and inviting them to chat; it's making a small but noticeable difference.

@GamerJosh Nice spread of "early" and "middle" systems, there.

GamerJosh

I have noticed that; I think it's a nice "non-obnoxious" way to let people know there are ways to be informed.

BESW

@GamerJosh Excellent, glad to hear it's well-received.

I got my start early in D&D 3.5, and dabbled in a number of systems but most of my experience is 3.5, 4e, and Fate.

I've almost always been a GM. Although it's fun to run just one character sometimes, GMing seems to be my niche.

KRyan

most of your points are assertions lacking evidence.
1. “ *de facto* ” nothing; the rules don’t work that way. Negative and positive energy are often not included as options in effects that can choose a type of energy damage; that does not mean they aren’t energy damage, because none of those effects *define* what is energy damage. *Repair light damage* is irrelevant; it explicitly works on objects.
2. You can crit with *inflict*, sure. I just don’t see the relevance of that fact. Critting doesn’t have anything to do with damaging objects.

BESW

@KRyan Maybe, if @LitheOhm wants to continue this, a side room would be wise. (And I have no idea how "commonly overlooked type of energy damage" translates to "aren't energy damage.")

KRyan

@BESW yeah, probably; didn't realize this would go on for so long

BESW

14:43

@GamerJosh So, do you have a particular system you're considering for your return to the fold?

KRyan

@BESW can I just say that I really really appreciate those comments? they're awesome

BESW

@KRyan Thanks! I'm sure I'm not catching everyone, though.

So I'm glad to see a few others have started making similar efforts.

(I'm also trying to personalize them whenever possible, rather than just having a boilerplate copy-paste for everybody.)

KRyan

@BESW mm, I don't have a sweet template, I usually just say hi and point out what they're doing wrong >.>

BESW

Here, have a template.

 Welcome to the site! Please take a look at the [tour](rpg.stackexchange.com/about) and the [help](rpg.stackexchange.com/help); they're a useful introduction to the site. And once you have 20+ rep, feel free to [join the chat](chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/11/rpg-general-chat)!

3

If they've got the rep to chat already, I say "since" instead of "once," and if I've got something else to say, I stick it in between those two sentences.

KRyan

@BESW mm, I've seen you

Zachiel

14:47

@BESW Looks like a thing I would find I were looking for it on your profile... XD

GamerJosh

@BESW I hear what you're saying about GMing being the your niche. I really feel the same way, but also feel never being a player can really stagnate you as a GM--it's good to see what other GMs would do.

Anyhow, if I had to choose right now, I'd probably end up going with D&D 3.5, just because of the experience I have. But I'm really working on building a "setting" first (and attempting to do so system-less), so that I can mold it for whichever system I want.

KRyan

@GamerJosh sounds like a pretty good approach

BESW

@GamerJosh I don't get the opportunity to run a single character often (I really wish there were another word than "player" for that, because it implies the GM isn't playing the game too), sadly.

GamerJosh

Thanks, @KRyan!

Zachiel

Some systems won't eagerly accept a setting of your own.

@BESW "PC player"

KRyan

14:52

even PC and NPC imply the GM is not a player

BESW

And when I do, I have to work really hard at being a good ...player character player?... because I don't have the habits of it.

GamerJosh

@Zachiel I'm sure that's true; I'll have to pay attention to that when I get around to choosing the system

Zachiel

Non-GMing-player, maybe

I find it easier to choose a system to build a setting that works with it

KRyan

there is also a question of tone and purpose to a campaign

Zachiel

And some games like the Burning Wheel actually want you to build the setting at the table with your fellow players

GamerJosh

14:54

I think I need to look into the Burning Wheel--that sounds interesting

Zachiel

Some other games like Microscope actually focus on the process of building a setting you can later use in another game.

KRyan

Dungeons and Dragons works best for dungeon-crawls, and outside of those, for heroic adventures that mostly involve traveling to exotic places and defeating exotic monsters (so, above-ground dungeon-crawls). The non-combat aspects of the system are not well-developed, and most D&D players almost free-form a lot of them (especially social stuff). A game that's supposed to be mostly social interaction and non-combat stuff is probably better off in another system.

Zachiel

@GamerJosh there's a free introduction to the game on Luke Crane's site IIRC... let me fetch the link

BESW

[bites tongue not to add Fate to the rising babble]

KRyan

FATE is a perennial favorite around —am I not supposed to do that so soon?

hahaha

GamerJosh

14:56

@BESW I want to learn about Fate, too

KRyan

FATE is very good for a huge array of games, but it's narrative so it may seem quite different if you're familiar only with D&D and expecting the game to run like D&D

GamerJosh

oh, interesting

KRyan

(or so says this person who only ever played three sessions of pre-Core FATE)

Zachiel

while I look for it have some description of the game burningwheel.com/?page_id=2

BESW

I need to dig up one of our old "explaining Fate to a person" sessions and mark it as a conversation I can link ot.

KRyan

14:58

@BESW I brought up FATE because I felt bad bringing up Legend so soon

>.>

BESW

Ahah! Give me a moment to bookmark...

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