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23:38
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Q: How can we make the Workplace more welcoming to people in marginalized groups?

mxyzplkIn the blog post Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming. It’s Time for That to Change., SE started to grapple with how unfriendly it was to newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups. I am sad to say I feel that The Workplace suffers from that same syndrome, very heavily...

Appreciate it, but like I say this isn't a problem about this one question, it's an ongoing pattern in our community here.
Sweet, contribute that as an answer! Not allowing comment arguments to thrive is, I think, an important element for sure.
I am disappointed but not surprised by all the downvotes. Really, you don't think there's anything to improve here?
We aren't made of glass, you know. I would suggest "STOP PANDERING"
Yeah, unfortunately.
I’m voting to close this question because I have no desire to have this stack tear itself apart
@NotThatGuy at least have the courage to post an answer
@lilienthal I see plenty, any search for topics like this reveals a bunch, but I feel adding a fistful of more examples will just get argued over and no I don’t have a statistical analysis. I think the dramatic reaction even to this meta Q shows how open people are to hearing about it. We can’t discuss how to get better without a logical proof of the problem? Sounds like an unwelcoming environment to those with this kind of problem to me.
23:38
@NotThatGuy If you think an answer is wrong, you provide a different one. That's how it works. I've actually upvoted answers that I've vehemently disagreed with because they were good answers.
@NotThatGuy who welcomes offensiveness here? If you've seen it welcomed, tell the moderators and they will address it.
@NotThatGuy So, are you saying that MR Positive or Lillenthal, et cet would ignore legitimate flags?
You two have leveled some very serious charges at this stack and at the moderators here, and aren't backing it up with anything. You want to talk about offensive? THAT is offensive
@NotThatGuy THIS has a rating of over 400 and talks about how to deal with autistic coworkers. So, why are you assuming ill intent when it is clear that the community values sensitive answers more than that which you consider rude?
@NotThatGuy What makes me sad is the fact that there are so many white knights out there who would strip "marginalized" people of their agency simply to make other people think they care.
@NotThatGuy I will say from personal experience, the worst discrimination I have faced is from omnipotent moral busybodies telling me how I won't be able to do X because I was born Y. The bullies treated me just like everyone else, they looked for weakness. The busybodies BELIEVED I was weak.
@NotThatGuy Now, when I see something I think crosses the line, I've been pretty vocal. Nobody would call me a pushover, and, as I pointed out, one of my most highly rated answers was about how to treat autistic people in the workplace, and it was very well received. The most important thing anyone can do to stave off harsh words is to give them no power.
@NotThatGuy So, you want to be more welcoming to the "marginalized communities", but are dismissing the opinions of one of the most active members among those marginalized people, and attempting to minimalize that person's feelings. By your own statement, you want to be more inviting to marginalized people, at least until one disagrees with you, right?
@NotThatGuy So, I don't speak for you, but you feel perfectly entitled to speak for people who are marginalized? You want to support us, but are being completely dismissive to one who disagrees with your stance. So, you support us, just so long as we behave and do as you say? Well, that sounds rather paternalistic. Maybe we just don't like being treated like children.
Exactly. “I am autistic therefore you are not allowed to talk about people getting slagged on this stack for asking questions about discrimination” is the sum total of this illogical argument and I’m not engaging with it any more.
@mxyzplk but you feel free to speak for me and call me "marginalized" which is about the most offensive thing you can call someone. I'm not on the margins, I'm front and center and taking on bigotry.
@NotThatGuy Well, this question itself does just that, presumes to speak for "marginalized groups". I find the very term "marginalized" to be about the most offensive thing you can call someone. This is quite literally "othering" people who are not like you. Can you see how this may get under someone's skin?
The only place I talk about you is where I mention how new posters are dismissed by people saying "well what about me I got discriminated against for being X once". As usual you are using this as a brickbat to dissuade people from discussion. I’m not interested in that.
@mxyzplk I've been discriminated against more than once, and I have more than one disability. You come in here and libel this stack. Since you like callout culture so much, I'm calling you out for doing it. You still don't realize how offensive it is to calling people marginalized and how that is "othering" them. You are getting literally ZERO people agreeing with you who are of the class you call "marginalized". Why is that?
I used "marginalized" because that's what the SO blog post linked uses, because someone objects to everything so I figure I'll just use what the larger SO discussion is using terminology wise.
23:38
@NotThatGuy just some food for thought. Do you think that anyone covered by that term invented it? How would you feel if a term like that was used to describe you? That you're an "other" or "on the fringe" or "different"? Do I lose my special status because after decades of fighting, I'm in the mainstream? Am I a bad person because I'm trying to pull others in?
@NotThatGuy there is already a mechanism in place, it is called "voting". If the votes are not going your way, the problem may not be with the votes.
@NotThatGuy by the way, who decides which answers are "problematic"?
We derive community consensus on Meta on how to handle stuff like that. Here's a simple example from RPG.SE. There, people have different game playstyles. We had a lot of issues with someone posting about how to do something with their game, and a bunch of people dumping on them about how their playstyle was bad and they didn't agree with it. That was not helpful to anyone, so we had a meta discussion and determined that answers to questions like that which questioned their playstyle were considered unhelpful by the community, and community members and mods should action them accordingly.
So @Lilienthal reread my question. Again, I'm not saying the mods are bad or whatever, I don't know what 'allegations' are so severe here. I am saying that many questions, when they have an OP who is sharing behavior that they see as negative and could fall under discriminatory behavior of some type, are stampeded on. Go look at any of these questions - you can see the deleted answers and history as well as I can. People warn them against saying things are sexist or racist or discrimination (even when they didn't, as with the most recent post).
They tell them they shouldn't feel that way (several of the answers and many of the comments on the recent post). They demand for the OP to "prove it's from a bad motivation" (as if that matters). You personally made a good answer to workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/103200/… and got complaints about "it's not sexism" on your answer.
I don't know what's happened in the intervening years to make these questions even more poorly received (I mean, there's a lot of deletion on that one too) but it seems to me they are, and a large percentage of the interaction on them is not helpful to the poster, it's just defensive. And even if mods delete it, the OP still gets two barrels full of crap and doesn't have a good experience here.
@mxyzplk I guess the feelings of people who have been subject to actual discrimination are beyond your interest, eh?
Just because you've been discriminated against doesn't mean you're welcoming to others that have been. You say there's absolutely no problem and people who are discriminated against should just figure it out themselves and any discussion about helping is "white knighting" - so no, I don't see any of that as contributing to actual exploration of the problem or solutions.
But also maybe you should just let your answer(s) stand for themselves instead of drowning out everyone else with a constant flood of comment argument.
@mxyzplk I would appreciate the cessation of lies on your part. I have never said there is absolutely no problem, and If you are going to suggest that I have been unwelcoming, back it up. What I find unwelcoming is the proverbial monkey trying to save a fish from drowning by placing it safely in the tree.

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