hi @Tanner

@allquixotic Hey how goes it?

the usual slog :P

Orioles game starts at 10:10 PM local time tonight; suffice to say I'll be passed out before the first pitch... been up late all week, already sleep deprived

ahhh, good old pacific time lol

I was woken up by dumb panicky animals users at 5 AM...

I might be out before that game starts myself :P

@Tanner lol at dumb panicky animals

O_O DAFUQ DID THEY DO TO RHYTHMBOX?!?!?

they took away the search box! this means war!

I'm forking Rhythmbox. Seriously. ʞɔnɟ Gnome

haha

@allquixotic a bit yewish :P

And a reboot fixes my rogue svchost o0

@allquixotic I see this is becoming a thing ;D

@OliverSalzburg It does not run there

ʞɔnɟ Windows ʞɔnɟ

2fs because I am not sure if I should put it in the front or at last ;p

Sigh, I have no idea how to trouble shoot my issue further

I don't need no upside-down fornication. ;P

until the mods come =D

fuck ʞɔnɟ fuck jre ?

Java + Terminal Server (or Remote Desktop Server :P) sucks.

I guess I will have to wait until I can put a bounty on my question

which one?

@Tanner Java -> IKVM -> Mono -> AOT static -> .exe

unless you're using a java web start or applet

this one

@allquixotic 13.04?

@Sathya no, it's some mockup that a guy posted to rhythmbox-devel ML

they only changed the play/previous/next buttons though AFAIK

the rest of the UI is per the latest git master, don't know if it's in a release or not

also the window decorations indicate that it's probably Fedora, not Ubuntu

it looks like Mint to me, with cinnamon on

@Sathya nah, those window decorations are just the default Gnome-shell window decos since 3.x

ah ok

Also is there any distribution in which you don't have to install major updates ? I read somewhere that Arch does not need that ...

Any other popular distro like that ?

wdym

@HackToHell what do you mean? rolling release?

Arch runs on rolling release, as does Gentoo & CrunchBang, I guess

yes rolling release that's the word I was searching for :D

Arch doesn't have "major updates" because it releases the latest stable packages whenever they are released, not in one big go

@allquixotic Tempted to bring up a test Citrix server just to try that xD

I am getting tired of updating ubuntu

Debian sid/unstable/experimental, Fedora Rawhide, openSUSE Factory, etc

@HackToHell if you're tired of updates then you'll really hate a rolling release, since they constantly ship the latest packages

@HackToHell Upgrading every 6 months is pretty stressful indeed

oh, what was that? Gnome 3.4.6 was released? here's an update!

Linux 3.9 was released? here you go!

they don't even really test the packages

they just say, oh, the upstream shipped a new release, let's push it!

if you don't want updates at all you can turn them off (at your own peril; you'll be missing out on security updates)

yeah, precisely

sigh

however, if you just want to reduce the download sizes, use Fedora; they have an innovative delta RPM system, which Debian/Ubuntu still hasn't adopted, which saves ~80 to 90% of the download size by shipping only binary diffs between the current package and the update

a typical update to Ubuntu on my box runs ~250 to ~750 MB

Fedora updates run about 10 to 20 MB

opensuse does delta rpms too, btw

for the same number / complexity of packages

Then I'm installing Fedora !!

Thanks for the info

@OliverSalzburg And it downloads quite a lot of stuff

@HackToHell Well, it's not going to generate the updated packages out of thin air ;D

@HackToHell IMHO, entire distro version upgrades are less annoying than post-production patches

because you only upgrade distro version twice a year, but you download patch updates what seems like constantly

if you keep current on patches you can blow through about 10 gigabytes of downloads in the lifespan of an Ubuntu release

by comparison Fedora might use 1 gigabyte, maybe, although probably not

Ah just lovely, the new tab page in chrome is it just takes you straight to google search, lovely

@allquixotic If i had know that, I might have never used ubuntu

@user88311 if you are being sarcastic about that, you might want this

If that page ever chooses to load

That linked me to autodesk allq

@user88311 wha?

Opened it a second time, took me to right page

No clue what just happened

@user88311 me neither :D it takes me to the chrome web store

no clue how that has anything to do with autodesk

Anyways, thanks for that, although I did prefer it when I opened a new tab, I could pull up last pages opened and had the ability to click on my most visited pages to bring them up quickly

allq, are you on the latest stable or dev build of chrome, wondering if it's the same for you

@user88311 that's called the New Tab Page, and you can still enable that

...

one sec

it's in settings, you can just turn on opening the New Tab Page and it will show you a list of recently used pages etc

@user88311 it's been on dev since past 3-4 weeks I believ

@user88311 I am on the stable channel, using Chrome 26 atm, can't use beta/dev at work

no such thing on stable

That

Leaves me with

.

No new tab, just auto's to google

@allquixotic Can you give me an example of one? :P

I'm still trying to find a (preferably 'stable') distro that ships with apache 2.4

Was to slow on the edit, but yeah new tab apparently is just the google homepage, lovely thing to find, get int he shower it's fine, get out, this

@allquixotic

@user88311 What happens if you click Apps?

@user88311 Try navigating to chrome://newtab?

@Bob wait for RHEL 7 / CentOS 7 / Scientific Linux 7 later this year; long term support server distros haven't caught up to Apache 2.4 yet

@allquixotic I'd actually prefer to stay with Debian, though they're notoriously slow with this kind of thing.

apps takes me to the app store, chrome://newtab takes me to, google

My last foray into RPM-land was with openSUSE.

It's still on a laptop somewhere. That was painful.

@allquixotic

@Bob Debian is going to push a new stable release very soon, but I don't know if it's going to have Apache 2.4

@Bob I prefer it :D but then again I am equally fluent with the package managers of both Debian-based and RPM-based distros

:P

packages.debian.org/testing/httpd/apache2

:(

> Package: apache2 (2.2.22-13)

current "testing" is "wheezy" which will become Debian 7.0 stable "wheezy" in a couple of weeks

but still Apache 2.2.x

@Bob @allquixotic @Hennes @JourneymanGeek Any of you know somebody who enjoys dissecting pieces of software?

RHEL 7 hasn't even released a beta but I hear it's going to be based on (at least) Fedora 18, possibly with kernel updates (and other packages) from Fedora 19

@user88311 me but I don't really have time to do it in a big way atm if you mean code

Yeah, that's what I mean

holy shit

sydney.edu.au/engineering/it/~matty/Shakespeare

@user88311 I have similar behavior on Canary on my laptop, but I don't know why. I guess it's one of the variations

see that blinking text on the top left?

I wondering how this piece, messengergeek.wordpress.com/2013/04/23/…, manages to work

When I click on the Apps button though, I get the normal new tab page

No blinking here bob

@user88311 Eh, .NET code is fun to disassemble

@allquixotic Kinda expected...

@user88311 I think some browsers dropped support for the blink tag :P

Chrome being one of them

I get this

@user88311 I'm just wondering why people give a care

> The blink element type was first invented for Netscape Navigator and is still supported in its descendants, such as Mozilla Firefox (except for the Netscape 6 and early Mozilla suite browsers). It is also supported by the Opera Internet Browser. Microsoft's Internet Explorer and Apple's Safari/WebKit do not support it, even in its CSS incarnation.

@OliverSalzburg It's just one of those annoying things

@OliverSalzburg I don't like WLM either.

I want MSN Messenger back, TBH.

@Bob it's pretty easy to blink text with other methods too, anyway

javascript for one

WLM was laggy. It rendered slowly.

Not for me bob

@allquixotic Yea, it's just amusing to see a page so old it's still in use...

skype has so many flaws i'd never use it

I will not be going to Skype, if I can help it :\

@user88311 Try starting Chrome with --reset-variation-state

especially 2 of them, 1 all the features for WLM that were free, you must pay for in skype, 2, it' uses near 10X the amount of ram

@user88311 what do you have to pay for in skype?

WLM had far too many elements that would render one at a time if your GPU was busy. And it would become a black window in the event of a graphics driver crash.

the only thing in skype that isn't free (AFAIK) is making landline calls; could WLM do that for free?

I'm actually kinda moving to Steam chat :P

I'm moving to StackExchange chat.... oh wait

lol

unfortunately, no private conversations here

I used WLM in ~2008; haven't used it since. mostly IRC, email, Skype, and now SE

there's still AIM if you want a traditional IM service

and Yahoo messenger

both support the Pidgin OTR plugin which is great

the very first version of WLM was not too bad

the later versions (forced-update - argh!) got progressively laggier

this was on an i7, with a GTX 560. There should not be lag.

Agreed, skype takes lag to a whole new level though

I can imagine

G+ is pretty decent

Which is the reason I want to see if somebody can dissect messengergeek.wordpress.com/2013/04/23/… , to see what makes it tick

and you can use it with any jabber user whose server supports federation

So people hate Skype and they hate that WLM is being killed of. So the sensible solution to that is to write a hack to extend the lifetime of the dying WLM for another year... Smart!

lol

It works indeed, for the time being

@OliverSalzburg: or for everyone to standardise on jabber for basic text chat ;p

Being me though, I just want to know how it works

which was happening for a while

The main reason I enjoyed WLM, is that you got a notification everytime you got a email that was small and out of the way, but still noticeable

@user88311 It probably hooks the API calls WLM makes to determine the date and that's it. The service backend is simply still running because some clients probably had still running contracts with MS or something like that

Yes I think I read the servers don't shut down for another 12 months

o.O

> Welcome back! If you found this question useful, don't forget to vote both the question and the answers up.

never seen that before

@user88311 I actually didn't like that :P

over a hundred emails never read

I don't check my hotmail account

Yeah hotmail is the one I use somewhat more than the others, so it's convenient, as with skype you also don't get notifications of emails, not something I would call a flaw, but annoying

wat...

?

Email notification in your IM? Seriously?

That's part of WLM

Yep, Messenger would remain available in mainland China.[49] According to ZDnet, this might only apply to the ability to sign in with Messenger client; Microsoft would keep its Messenger service running for another year., from wiki

Give a year, the next hack will be tricking messenger into thinking it's connecting via china, or connect to china, which would just be a bad idea all around

lol, that might be pretty trivial to hack together

I've seen similar things done before so never know

you'd just need something that would check for new mail via imap, and send you the title of it via jabber...

Well that's always bothersome text to see on a page; Also available: zipped version if you’re being blocked by security software

instead of trying to hack a program to do what WLM does, why not just move on already? WLM sucks; there are better alternatives; and even in the best case, it'll be completely and utterly gone within 2 years or so, with no way to access it because the servers won't be operational.

there are tons of lightweight Jabber clients that only use a few MBs of RAM (less than 10) so Google Talk is viable for example

@OliverSalzburg the native Google Talk application for Windows does gmail notification; so that feature isn't unprecedented nor unique

lol

@allquixotic I think one of the best things about it was the ability to share different formats so easily.

@allquixotic My concern was that someone would want a feature like that :P

Drag a binary file onto it.

Paste an image from your clipboard.

@OliverSalzburg: its actually pretty useful in theory

@allquixotic I actually found GTalk rather disappointing. But that was five years ago, so...

@Bob: its jabber. There's so much ugly hacks you can do with jabber

Eh. I'll go hack my messenger applications some day.

But not today. There's too much I need to do that I can't be bothered trying to get communication working.

lol

which reminds me

at some point I need to work out what my school e mail password is

xD

not hard. I AM a forensics major ;p

nirsoft has something ;p

What I must say I found interesting was that the mods on the skype forums were recommending that hack to people

or I can backup the whole thunderbird account and move it to a new system

fff, fedora does not ship with firefox

It comes with Konquerer

atleast the kde spin off

@HackToHell wut? which distro of fedora? the default spin should ship firefox

ah. well if you use the KDE spin you get what you pay for lol

Fedora KDE spin is a one-man show AFAIK (much like Kubuntu) so you're not gonna get a lot of support; most of Red Hat's paid employees hack on the gnome desktop

lol

Kubuntu comes with reconq

And firefox is a 50 mb download ~_~

@allquixotic I'll install gnome eventually ;p

Unless your on dial up that shouldn't be a poroblem

@HackToHell NO

use Cinnamon

It took me more time to figure out how to use yum than to install arch :P

wut? yum is easy

@allquixotic The one from mint ? ok will use that

@allquixotic i managed to corrupt it's index

what's so complex about that o_o

@HackToHell nice job: rpm --rebuilddb

And googling in Konquerer is a pain in the butt

@allquixotic to find that took me 15 mins

Konquerer sucks BAD

konqueror does suck; but it's easy to install chrome/firefox...

my favorite distro+browser setup of all time is Fedora (GNOME / default spin) + Cinnamon desktop + Chrome

small updates, recent packages, fastest browser, great graphics drivers, and a Win7-like desktop experience

basically full of awesome

And the mirror yum is downloading from is throtled to 30 kbps >.<

Can yum resume downloads If hit Ctrl+C and change the mirror ?

@HackToHell it can from the same mirror but i have no idea if it will do it from another mirror

i think so

kernel.org and anl.gov are pretty great, at least in the US; YMMV

oh fuck, now it says I have no space ..... where the hell did I install

@HackToHell aren't you the one with, like, a 16 byte HDD? :p

The Device Manager in Dolphin says 3gb used out of available 3gb :(

@HackToHell it's not that big.. is it?

@HackToHell how did you partition? your / partition is probably small (it defaults that way) with a decent /usr and an enormous /home

Well, thanks to sucky mirrors download speeds are quite low

20 MB

@allquixotic I allocated / partition 50 gb

Fedora did the rest

@HackToHell try grabbing it from the Mozilla FTP site

@HackToHell df -h

oh, packages.

Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
rootfs          3.0G  3.0G     0 100% /
devtmpfs        1.9G     0  1.9G   0% /dev
tmpfs           2.0G   84K  2.0G   1% /dev/shm
tmpfs           2.0G  1.3M  2.0G   1% /run
/dev/sda9       3.0G  3.0G     0 100% /
tmpfs           2.0G     0  2.0G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
tmpfs           2.0G     0  2.0G   0% /media
/dev/sda8        46G   17G   27G  39% /media/da84207f-6f61-4967-8eb6-399290604198
/dev/sda6        44G   33G   12G  75% /media/7ADA3732DA36E9D1

wtf

/dev/sda9 is a 55 gb partition

@allquixotic how about zypper? :P

@Bob zypper in, zypper up, etc :D

And fedora does not have gparted -_-

I know zypper well enough to be able to man or --help it

brb going to reboot into ubuntu

I don't know Arch's package manager, and it's been years since I've used emerge, but I know zypper/yum/apt well enough

@HackToHell it does have it, but not by default... you can use Palimpsest though; it's in settings as "Disk Management" or something like th -- oh, you're using KDE

admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/gparted

Fedora installer fed up .....

Why does every simple thing I do mess up ............ why me !!??

@allquixotic I'm pretty sure there's a kparted :P

@Bob o rly? I'm surprised there's not a klinux with O(2^128) .config options instead of Linux's O(2^32)

CONFIG_NAME_OF_EXT4_FILESYSTEM = "kext4"

Looks like I have to install fedora again

@HackToHell It looks like you're trying to install Fedora again. Would you like help?

lmao

(minor major profanity if you're at work)

not sure if you guys are making fun of me -_-

@HackToHell I'm not, but your noob power level is over 9000, so I enjoy being playfully helpful :P

hehe

ajax: WHAT, 9000?!? There's no WAY that could be right!

How the fuck was I supposed to know how to reset the cache of yum without googling @_@

:P

@HackToHell by having used all possible Linux distros for ~15 years, like me? :P

I am just starting to try out new distros ;p

And I have a tendency to mess up anything and everything

@HackToHell Good! Do that more. Breaking things makes you useful. You just have to learn how to fix it, first.

the whole reason I became employable is that I know how to fix broken things by breaking them myself

it'd be like if you ran a fire drill every day, and took a different emergency route through the building. if you ever have a real fire, you will get out, 99.99999999% guaranteed

@allquixotic Heh. I break far too many things for no reason alone.

Whether I know how to fix them or not is immaterial. Just the sheer amount of breakages should mark me as unemployable for life :P

@Bob no! that makes you incredibly useful

just set your GUT (Give Up Threshold) to 5 or higher and you'll be more persistent than 99.9999% of people, and more likely to solve problems than them

try -> doesn't work -> try -> doesn't work -> try -> doesn't work === most people have given up by now. TRY MOAR and you win

On the other hand, I have seen this effect... far too much. It amazes me the sheer number of programers (taking a computer science course, and employed as a programmer) who have close to no idea how to use a computer in general :S

@Bob yep

i knew a guy who got all A's in computer science class but did not own a single computing device

he had a "dumb" cellphone, no laptop, no desktop, no ... not even a console

erm

:P

he'd write his code by hand then type it into a lab computer to do his assignments

on the plus side, my boss is perfectly willing to rip out a graphics card by hand when it stops the development server from booting :D

@allquixotic whoa...

the problem with that guy is if a program ever didn't work properly, he'd look for an "IT" guy to help him with the error message

oh no, Visual Studio crashed! HELP, MAGIC COMPUTER-FIXING PEOPLE!

@allquixotic well yes you do gain a lot of knowledge, knowledge that has no practical use ....

absolutely zero troubleshooting capability

@HackToHell plenty of practical use

@allquixotic My computer teacher didn't know how a RAM looked like

@HackToHell that's where you're wrong. it makes you extremely employable as a sysadmin, build engineer, tools engineer, etc

at the very least, your local IT guys won't try to run away when you approach

assuming I learn something related to IT

@allquixotic breaking things is the only way I've ever learned =D

@Tanner you, my friend, "get it". +1 internets for you

haha

o0

store.steampowered.com/news/10463

tempted to click but no

summarize? :P

@Tanner yup. read a book? I still have no clue afterwards (and it's boring!). sit down and fiddle, with the aid of Google? done!

 With Subscription Plans, Steam offers gamers the ability to sign up and manage payments for subscription-based games on Steam. The launch title for the new service is Darkfall Unholy Wars, with additional subscription-based games to follow.

Steam customers may now sign-up for, manage, cancel or renew game Subscription Plans at any time, online directly through Steam.

> Steam Introduces Game Subscription Plans

so basically instead of paying directly to the publisher you can pay through steam

I'm not sure whether this is a good or bad thing.

CSB

Unholy wars is expensive ...

15$ per month !

On one hand, more games will use Steam.

WoW costs that much per month iirc

On the other, less games are discouraged from 'subscription games'...

@Bob I think steam launched that to bring in WoW

@Bob I've found the more catastrophic the breakage, the more I learn. Today I broke the Internets through Group Policy Preferences. =D I've learned shittons about GPP in the past 20 minutes...

lol, And I finally understand all the different kinds of memory used by windows thanks to my driver problem :D

tho the issue is far from fixing

Different... kinds of memory?

you mean the paged and nonpaged pools?

> What I'm trying to do is make Windows look as close to a Mac as possible

Oh please...