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Bob
Bob
15:00
@allquixotic I decided to have an early night and you do all this :P
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic 60 ESR should be out soon. I was waiting for it.
@allquixotic hm, is that new? I have vague memories of trying geckodriver directly and it not working
ah yea it was
May 8 '17 at 3:00, by Bob
But I've kinda got that working, and geckodriver too. which implemented a slightly different webdriver spec? but selenium standalone (java) can bridge it
@Bob it wasn't working because WDIO tries to access the endpoint at /wd/hub/session but the very same protocol is supported by geckodriver at just /session
so I set "path": "/" in the config file
Bob
Bob
ohhhhhhh
path defaults to /wd/hub in WDIO
Bob
Bob
15:05
obviously I know nothing about selenium :P
well now it works with a much newer stack all around... now to upgrade the container to Ubuntu 18.04, since the host is now running along on 18.04 happily
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic just be careful with netplan :P
netplan didn't break anything for me, even on the host
Bob
Bob
half arsed interfaces replacement #3
after network manager and systemd
Unstable internet connection at work... Again.
15:08
at least systemd is somewhat full-arsed
but ubuntu doesn't like to use systemd full-hog
Bob
Bob
point
The network here is unironically awesome. Except for when it's not, then it sucks.
iirc RHEL8 will use systemd-networkd
@ThatBrazilianGuy Is this the one with the fibre that got backhoed on a number of separate occasions?
Bob
Bob
netplan just stinks of typical canonical NIH
15:09
@bertieb Yeah, that one.
I can download an entire distro ISO in a few seconds.
Ah. Have they figured out what redundancy actually means yet?
@Bob which means they'll continue to support it for 2-3 years, then announce it's being killed in favor of the latest Red Hat upstream whatevers by the next LTS
But once in a while it will stuck like a stubborn mule.
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic I still need to read up on that sometime
see: Unity, Mir, Upstart
15:10
@bertieb they have a reeeeeeally hard time figuring what budget means.
@ThatBrazilianGuy Hah!
See also: everywhere :P
the only thing Canonical's done in recent years that's their own project that I really respect is LXD
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic otoh, lxd's going alright
yeah, exactly - LXD is awesome and fills a niche that nobody else seems interested in tackling
Bob
Bob
15:11
but that's probably because there's no real equivalent
never heard of netplan, but ugh what's wrong with things as they are?
everyone's all about "containers are trusted code"
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek to be fair, ifupdown/interfaces is rather wonky
To the point we had a fire on a floor of this building a couple years ago and it's still "no trespassing", and it 's "normal" for things to be under construction / repair for literally decades.
Bob
Bob
but netplan is similarly half-complete
15:12
I might just rebuild the cavil container at this point with an 18.04 image - it has a TON of unnecessary packages, like an X server it doesn't even need
In other words, Brazil.
Bob
Bob
turns out microsoft doesn't hold the monopoly on releasing os updates with half-baked crap
3
it literally needs nodejs, wget, screen, and the X11 client libs (not the server or a DE)
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic I still need to get some servers up to lxd 3.0
problem is snap refresh isn't playing ball
I got lxd 3.0 to upgrade fine after I found the migrate command
Bob
Bob
15:15
snap thinks there's no updates after 2.21
it runs 2.x and 3.0 in parallel with different UNIX domain sockets to access each, then does a bunch of incantations to migrate your containers (running or not) to the new daemon
Bob
Bob
at least on the one server I've tried so far
oh, I think I had that problem
I ended up fixing it by forcing 3.0.0 version
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic I don't need to migrate; it works as a straight upgrade (I think?)
@allquixotic Write a Dockerfile with a cavil recipe! :D
DOCKERIZE ALL THE THINGS /o/
Bob
Bob
15:15
migrate is for deb to snap
(removed)
Bob
Bob
*waits for @HackToHell to drop by*
(vacuumed up by an outside moderator and sent to the trash bin because I happened to be talking at the same time as something bad was going down)
Bob
Bob
root@athame:~# lxc list
lx+-------+---------+---------------------+------+------------+-----------+
| NAME  |  STATE  |        IPV4         | IPV6 |    TYPE    | SNAPSHOTS |
+-------+---------+---------------------+------+------------+-----------+
| liara | RUNNING | 192.168.2.31 (eth0) |      | PERSISTENT | 0         |
+-------+---------+---------------------+------+------------+-----------+
root@athame:~# lxc --version
3.0.0
I really need to get some more things up on this :P
maybe a vpn server... hm.
would be a good remote entrypoint to my home network
15:21
@Bob I'll be the first to admit Canonical (my Linux distributor of choice for most uses) and Apple (my systems-that-have-personal-data-I-value-most distributor of choice for most uses) are quiiiiite guilty of shipping half-baked crap, broken crap, insecure crap, etc. Such is life. I guess I could run OpenBSD but it probably doesn't even have drivers for my keyboard
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic That's why I run Debian. So I can turn it into broken crap myself :D
Bob
Bob
(more so since these days I end up hacking on some canonical stuff anyway, which is like 80% debian-compatible but noooooooooooot quite, so there's something subtly broken)
has Ubuntu still not merged that Apparmor change to upstream for LXD?
so you don't have to put that weird unconfined whatever variable in the lxd config?
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic I'm not sure, TBH. I remember seeing bug reports for issues with snap with upstream kernels when Debian turned on the AppArmor flag.
Debian 10 might have AA enabled
15:24
@Bob AA?
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic that's not necessary now - it seems to auto-detect. which of course means privileged containers are dangerous :P
(unprivileged containers are largely fine, since any root escalation is a linux kernel bug)
@RogUE c'mon, I was talking about AppArmor literally one message up
@Bob but isn't it apparmor's job to handily prevent that even in that case?
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic I remember seeing Stephane say aa is mostly for privileged
@Bob Didn't see that. Is it like setting permissions in Android?
most people who run stuff in a hardware VM using VT-x expect the hypervisor + the CPU to protect the host against any degree of fuckery the guest tries to pull... I mean, that's largely the premise of Amazon EC2's public cloud; you get root in a VM, and any ability to escalate to the host is a massive, world-breaking bug
ideally LXD would be as good as whatever EC2 uses (Xen, right?)
Bob
Bob
15:28
@allquixotic Ability to escalate from user to root in Linux would be a massive world-breaking bug too
IIRC most escalations target vulnerable services
not the kernel itself
but yea having apparmor would be better
(and having one lsm would be even better, but the world we're in we have to have selinux, apparmor, seccomp, ..., ...)
the whole point of the LSM architecture was to make them pluggable, but as a user it does make it a bit wonkier when you have a lot of different options. I do wonder if selinux is good enough to cover all scenarios that apparmor covers. If so, Canonical should consider switching to it to be compatible with RHEL
people have always had different ideas about what an LSM should do, so that's why there's multiple (don't forget grsecurity :P)
Bob
Bob
looks like they fixed it in march
the USG has contributed a fairly good LSM but I really hope someone has carefully audited it for tricks and backdoors that the NSA could use
Bob
Bob
15:32
so we might see apparmor on by default in deb 1 0
@allquixotic selinux?
@Bob originally known as nsalinux :P
selinux is a bit of a pain to work with ;p
Anyone know how to set the position of a high-low line in an excel chart?
0
Q: Set position of high-low line in Excel Combochart

BardicerSetup: I have a chart that is represented by the image below. The green, red and blue columns represent three series of data. The vertical purple line represents an existing high-low line that is set by two data points (let's call them 20 and 50). The vertical orange line represents the locatio...

15:49
@Bardicer err... on the chatroom - sticking links to your own questions to get attention isn't usually considered good etiquette. It does happen sometimes but if its literally the first thing someone does, folk get the slightest bit annoyed
And least for me, I have no idea what the question is about at all
Bob
Bob
I'm not sure anyone in here routinely uses Excel, tbh
not that I know of anyway *shrug*
A random shot in the dark: select the line and see if you can drag it around. Or select it, right click and see if you can get to a properties dialog for it.
@JourneymanGeek you get nothing for high scores in games either, yet people keep trying to beat em
my point was that people don't do it for the collective good, we are all inherently selfish.
well people might have different things to be selfish about tho
they might enjoy the challenge
15:56
sure
but that's not the greater good ;D
no
and then there's meta ;p
I mean, what incentive do people have to post great site meta questions?
@JourneymanGeek my apologies. I come from StackOverflow. I'm new to SuperUser. I understand different communities have different customs. At Stack, we typically prefer someone to just ask their question instead of asking to ask.
@Bob I tried that, it didn't work. Someone else brought it to me. I typically use Excel interop when I'm using Excel.
@Bardicer asking to ask is different from literally just throwing in a question into a chatroom you're unfamiliar with ;p
So... my plan for the next few weeks will be to learn Docker concurrently with JavaScript as time allows. I might even use the two together in personal projects.
I guess my first indication that SuperUser might be different should have been the comment about "Don't post a screenshot. Here's a link to the Unix stackexchange about using text. Post a screenshot. Don't reply in the comments."
16:00
both is nice
lol
hometime!
you always should give enough information for someone who has no clue of your environment to answer
Write webapps using HTML5 and JS, deploy them in Docker.
@JourneymanGeek Sorry... I'm lazy. Already asked the question, rewrote the question... too lazy to completely rewrite it again when there's a link to it lol
Bob
Bob
@Bardicer We do generally prefer no asking to ask, but given the wide range of possible questions on SU with only the one active chatroom, dumping random questions here tends to not work too well.
16:01
@Bardicer ehh, that's not the point I was trying to make ;p
hmm
It's something I might well be doing over the next few months; which of these gets priority comes down to personal preference :P
In a sense, we talk about problems, rather than just throw stuff in
"I have a chart with three columns and a high-low line. The high-low line is in the middle of the chart instead of at the side where I want it. How can I get it over there?"
Bob
Bob
I mean, we do sometimes link questions here. But that's with the benefit of knowing what people here are interested in and what works, I guess.
its a super super super odd thing but...
Bob
Bob
16:02
@Bardicer Yea, "click around until it works" is pretty much the limits of my knowledge of Excel :P
6
Personally, I don't think it's possible to do it due to Excel's limitations
@Bob same here... if I can't do it via code, and interop... then i'm pretty sure it isn't possible. I never even heard of a high-low line before. o_O
Alright. Well, I'll just let the user know that their best best is to make an image of a vertical line and drag it where they want in the chart because excel can't do it ^_^
Thanks guys! o/
Gotta duck out before I'm caught in a chatroom at work lol
16:38
@djsmiley2k Yes, but just like developers create great tools to "help them be more lazy", stack exchange is a (group of) communities that, in helping users to selfishly solve their own problems, promotes the greater good.
Just like a great way of saving work is by working hard for some time and saving lots of time later, a great way of improving your condition is by improving the condition of others in your community.
You can be selfish by being altruistic! \o/
And the opposite as well!
 
1 hour later…
17:47
@ThatBrazilianGuy oh it's a good thing
but no ones does it, for the greater good, is my point
@Bardicer imagine the room is a pub
you just walked in the door
went 'Hi.'
then immediately shouted as loud as you can 'MY DOG IS PREGNANT HELP ME PLZ'
18:06
@JourneymanGeek :D
Read 'The Selfish Gene' by Richard Dawkins @ThatBrazilianGuy
Popping in just to ask a question's probably fine in many places
I just personally feel that was the worst aspect of old tech IRC
yah
yup
just trying to explain it to someone who might not understand 'here'
18:08
@JourneymanGeek Being able to randomly ask questions? That's a bad thing?
I've never really used IRC much
"Just a quick question" is fine until nearly all my tech groups in both facebook and telegram are just people asking questions to other people askings questions >_<"
@rahuldottech yer too young ;p
Go study @rahuldottech
@ThatBrazilianGuy yerp
18:24
So...
I was looking up an SQL cheat sheet
When the automated helper bot window popped up
And I decided to have some fun
Then this happened...
user image
4
So... Got yet another SSD. This time, it's a 500 GB Samsung 860 EVO which will be used for more disk-intensive projects on Astaroth.
@rahuldottech Plz become meme.
@rahuldottech It was the 'Join room, ask question, immediately quit' that was annoying
I LOVE THIS
GUYS
See all of it here: imgur.com/gallery/u69LYGV
18:49
jack daniels
NOW
coke
please?
:<
19:13
@allquixotic openSUSE uses AppArmor; as a technology originally developed by Novell (the company which open-sourced the originally proprietary tools that defined SUSE Linux, including YaST), it's baked deeply into the SUSE distributions so it's very unlikely they'll change.
!!caaaaaaaaat
Yeah that's what I thought
roar
19:43
anyone want to work on that with me? :P
(back after an SSD firmware update, but that's on the main drive, the 960 PRO, and not the 860 EVO which was just installed)
i'm really cold
had to put the heating on
It's hot as hell here.
At least it's not humid, which makes it somewhat tolerable.
In fact, it's dry enough for there to be an elevated fire risk.
Special Weather Statement
National Weather Service New York NY
754 AM EDT Thu May 3 2018

NJZ004-006-103>108-NYZ072>075-176-178-032200-
Eastern Passaic-Hudson-Western Bergen-Eastern Bergen-
Western Essex-Eastern Essex-Western Union-Eastern Union-
New York (Manhattan)-Bronx-Richmond (Staten Island)-
Kings (Brooklyn)-Northern Queens-Southern Queens-
754 AM EDT Thu May 3 2018

Relative humidity will fall to 30-35 percent late this morning
through this afternoon across much of New York City and Northeast
20:05
@rahuldottech IRC is still a thing FWIW, lots of devs and communities
he said, idling on IRC
@allquixotic I'd take a decent headset that does all that wirelessly
(ie radio, not necessarily BT)
Had long discussion with friend about this
Problem is several competing requirements for someone commercial entitity to do it
@bertieb ?
Price, battery, range, tx quality, rx quality; choose N
Where N is < what anyone would be willing to put up with
for me, price is irrelevant, because no solution currently exists that's satisfactory
G930 does most of the above; but quality is variable and price is fair-to-middlin'
price only matters once there are competitors with different options that are more or less just as good
20:09
@allquixotic I'll hand-build the thing for $50 mil then :P
well, no, G930 doesn't do any of that
I keed, I keed
the key features of what I wrote are literally absent from that
@allquixotic Was referring to the set I had outlined, but yea
Problems are similar, then
I'd accept a little less than "microphone that sounds great if in wind tunnel", myself
If you can get it going for a reasonable price, I'd buy
@bertieb it was a bit of an exaggeration, but apparently that quality of digital MEMS mic isn't all that uncommon anymore
examples of @_@ mic quality on "invisible" (like, there's no boom or anything) mics on top-end headsets: Beats Studio3 Wireless / Solo3 Wireless, Sennheiser PXC 550
I've had no problems with folks hearing me using those while walking in 25 kph wind
20:17
Fair enough; I've not used my G930 that much (except when out in back garden while on a wander from PC) so can't compare
At 300 quid (first site I found) that's over three times what I paid for G930 IIRC
I'd say freezer and scissors also beat bread, and bread beats rock because "bread covers rock"
@djsmiley2k Well if the pub was holding it's weekly meeting get together of the local veterinarian association it might be a bit more acceptable ;)
toaster vs scissors: both players lose because you both are electrocuted
paper vs bread: both players win because you're on the first step to making a sandwich
I'll pass on the paper sandwich :P
I meant like putting the bread on top of the paper, like a paper towel you know
20:21
Ahh
scissors vs freezer: draw because the freezer isn't inconvenienced by freezing the scissors, and scissors can't hurt a freezer
(well, unless the scissors cut the power cord)
A toast sandwich is a sandwich made with two thin slices of bread in which the filling is a thin slice of buttered toast. An 1861 recipe says to add salt and pepper to taste. == Victorian recipe == A recipe for toast sandwiches is included in the invalid cookery section of the 1861 Book of Household Management by Isabella Beeton, who adds, "This sandwich may be varied by adding a little pulled meat, or very fine slices of cold meat, to the toast, and in any of these forms will be found very tempting to the appetite of an invalid." == 2011 publicity == In November 2011 the toast sandwich...
:O I've never heard of a toast sandwich
Won acclaim a few years ago for the cheapest meal you could make or somesuch
Ah, it's there in TFW
7.5p per sandwich
that might be actually good... the combination of the squishy soft fresh bread with the toasty buttery bread in the middle
I'm going to try that
and just like that, the toast sandwich spread to the United States of America
20:26
Heh :P
330 kcal per serving, FWIW
@bertieb hey, that's better than a slice of an Extra Large American style pizza with a generous portion of sauce and cheese, olives, green peppers and pineapple, like I like it... and dusted with grated parmesan
and I eat like 6 of those in a sitting!
not 6 pizzas
You're making me hungry D:
6 slices
IIRC Domino's UK-style portions (ie frankly quite smallish) hover between the 200-250 kcal/slice mark
Ah yes
"Large", 13.5"
Dominos here makes slices between about 200 for a small with no extras, to well over 300 for a large pizza with plenty of toppings
though to be fair, meats add way more calories than veggies, and I only eat veggies, and never get extra cheese
I often get pizza from a restaurant called Marco's, and they have a light pizza crust that is less dense while still being about the same thickness (so, not a thin crust) and it's really good
I'll usually request extra sauce, occasionally I'll request less than normal cheese, and whatever vegetables I want
20:34
You're doing this deliberately, aintcha? :P
nah
I'm actually really full because I ate a lot in the past 24 hours so I'm like the antithesis of hungry
stomps downstairs to fridge to glare at leftovers
also, coffee fuels my GERD when I have eaten too much, so I'm pretty uncomfortable
need coffee so I don't fall asleep at the keys
I only get GERD when I overeat, and can "cure" it 100% at-will without taking any meds by just eating right... so, I'm basically going to fast until lunch tomorrow, which is about 20 hours away
Blerg :-/
maybe chew on some celery
20:36
Chug Gaviscon until then?
I took a Pepcid Complete tablet, which is famotidine, calcium carbonate, and magnesium hydroxide
I'm guessing famotidine is akin to ranitidine
So that should hlep
same function
different chemistry
we have ranitidine here too, depends on the brand
Zantac vs Pepcid you say
Seems famotidine is more potent
on a dose-for-dose basis
I don't bother communicating brand names to those who don't live in the US or at least Ontario, Canada, because I figure 99% have never heard of American brand-name pharmaceuticals
they're usually branded differently overseas, even if sold by the same parent company
and Ontario is special because at least as far as I could see when I went there, it's the closest you can get to being basically the USA without actually being a US state - wouldn't be surprised if they have exactly the same meds
beautiful and hilarious
!!learn youmaynotpass ┻━┻ ミヽ(ಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
20:44
@allquixotic Command youmaynotpass learned
!!youmaynotpass
@allquixotic Input not matching /ミヽ(ಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻/. Help: User-taught command: ┻━┻
lolwtf
!!forget youmaynotpass
@allquixotic Command youmaynotpass forgotten.
!!learn youmaynotpass ┻━┻ ミヽ(ಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
20:44
@allquixotic Command youmaynotpass learned
!!youmaynotpass
@allquixotic Input not matching /ミヽ(ಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻/. Help: User-taught command: ``┻━┻
weird.
I like it this way
Wait, didn't Draco or someone have similar table-flipping factoid teaching problems there the other week
@bertieb Huh? Well, not me.
20:48
Maybe Rahul
I 'unno

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