@GypsySpellweaver I have a lot of questions about that build

@allquixotic fire at will, (just don't hit him)

some of which went away when I realized that you already purchased half that stuff

@allquixotic "why Piledriver" and "why 500 GB HDDs" to start? :P

...scrolling down a bit, "why GT 710" is actually a legitimate question I have o.O

@Bob he already owns the 500 GB HDDs

Does that build not have onboard graphics?

@allquixotic I wouldn't use em even if I owned em... space, power, noise :(

then again most people don't have insane storage requirements

@Bob 500GB cause I needed to do major moving before hand and on a budget. CPU is by budget, and No on-board graphics. Don't like them

It's just... odd... in a post-SSD world

@GypsySpellweaver So it has on-board but you don't like them?

tbh I have no idea how modern AMD desktop chips handle graphics

It don't have it. Why buy it and not use it/

ah

I don't think that AMD FX chip has on-board

@GypsySpellweaver yea, that's part of the 'no idea' part... I'm more familiar with Intel desktop parts (which are all closer to AMD APUs)

@allquixotic not necessarily on-die, but not even on-board?

@Bob My storage is insane, running 3.5 TB and hitting my head on the ceiling already

@Bob neither

amazon.com/AMD-Radeon-Graphics-Wraith-AD789KXDJCHBX/dp/…

bleh. decided after my last system that I always want at least some rudimentary graphics out from the mobo

@GypsySpellweaver see, uh... that's not something I'd call particularly insane :P

@GypsySpellweaver that AMD A10 7890K APU has double the graphics performance of the GeForce GT 710 and will save you $10 to boot

though, when'd you buy the drives?

I use a 2TB USB for relief.

I think 2 TB drives were $100 ea even back in 2012

@allquixotic but worse CPU perf?

videocardbenchmark.net/…

yea, GT 710 fills the role of "has video output" but not much else

@Bob truuuue

but the 7890k is 4 years newer too

@allquixotic mhm, wins on single-thread by far

Don't game, no time. Need desktop space more than I need speedy pixels

but it's a $150 upgrade that's probably not worth it

@GypsySpellweaver yea, I was mostly surprised by the lack of onboard

If I could trust it I'd keep the card I got now.

@Bob Same

I even have spare 500GB SSDs lying around now I wouldn't use cause they're too small

I have somewhere over 50 TB of HDD space, I think o.O

@TOWMN well, I'm still using those. big SSDs are expensive :P

my OS sits comfortably on a 500 GB SSD

@Bob True, but I already had a 1TB lying around and my laptop only has space for one 2.5", so... :-P

Now if it were a 500GB NVMe I'd probably put it into one of the 2 spare slots

Not worried about sound, box sits next to tv wife always has on. so can't hear em anyway

@GypsySpellweaver ah.

Hald-deaf anyway, can't hear wife either :)

lol

I need to get some soundproofing for my external drives... bloody loud at night

but that'd kill airflow too :(

the i3 7300 does a little better on CPU than the AMD APU I just compared it against, but ever so slightly worse on GPU (smokes even the 3770K in single thread tho)

If tele's off I'm hearing pipes, and they cover fans nicely too

cpubenchmark.net/…

and the GPU side: videocardbenchmark.net/…

@allquixotic I think @GypsySpellweaver linked an existing system :P

@Bob the 710 isn't part of the existing system

it isn't marked as purchased

The only CPU power I'll need is multi-VMs and compiler. So semi-low-end CPU does fine. AMD saves ¥, so it wins

@allquixotic or they didn't bother marking it

I think half my stuff still isn't marked

I just can't wrap my head around what you'd use a GT 710 for; that performance is seriously bad... so bad it'd have trouble rendering facebook at 1080p

Current video is nVidia GT8500

o.O

ok nevermind

wait. you're actually planning to buy a FX-8320?

@Bob "nevermind" what part

@Bob Unless something shows up better for budget, maybe step or two up the FX line

FX-8350 is possible

@GypsySpellweaver "multi-VMs"? unless they're headless, you're going to need VRAM, lots of RAM, and the best hw virtualization performance money can buy to get a good experience

and the best hw virtualization performance money can buy is Intel Kaby Lake or at least Skylake platform, not a 2012 AMD CPU

The VMs mostly do nothing. Sandboxes mostly. Added more just to try configs, and help with SU questions.

I use VBox

16 gigs of DDR3 should be sufficient, depending on what you're doing; but I really can't think of a reason to use a 2012 AMD CPU, even if its raw Passmark score is better.... the single-thread perf as well as the hardware virtualization perf of a modern Intel chip will give you a much better experience

@allquixotic 16 GB RAM probably satisfies the "lots of RAM" part

@allquixotic You mean Ryzen

the passmark score is an average and gives a lot of credence to embarrassingly parallel multi-core workloads, and relatively little attention to hw virt performance

@TOWMN oh? is Ryzen the virt champion now?

but yea... Bulldozer/Piledriver CPUs ... not worth it. especialy at $150 o.O

I think the cheapest current Ryzen part would be well out of the range of $150 though

OK we haven't really seen benchmarks of HVM performance on Ryzen but the multicore scaling beats Intel's top of the range $1500 Broadwell-E's easily

@TOWMN ...if you buy the $500 part, which appears to be far outside this budget

@allquixotic True but you won't see a $150 i5 giving you "the best hw virt performance money can buy"

what's the cheapest currently-released Ryzen anyway?

@TOWMN at that price point

Anything out there beats my current AMD FX62 :(

@GypsySpellweaver But you might as well get the best you can at the price, no?

Ryzen 7 1700 I believe (officially released)

I'd forgot the 4-core and 6-core parts weren't out yet

wait, does that CPU not come with a cooler?

also why are you spending nearly $60 on a fricking CPU cooler?!

if you're not overclocking (and overclocking is stupid with low-end parts even if it technically is possible) there is no reason whatsoever to not use the stock cooler

morning

@allquixotic that's how much I spent... on a Noctua... for a 7700k :\

Tired of the heat issue I'm having now, want to avoid repeat. At a respectable price anyway

the stock cooler is designed to safely operate the CPU within design spec at ambient temps up to like 85 Fahrenheit

@allquixotic well, overclocking on lower-end parts can def make sense if you really want to get value for $

@allquixotic Isn't the whole point of overclocking with a low end part to get the performance of a high end part without paying high end money?

@GypsySpellweaver if you buy the right CPU, it'll dissipate half (or less) of the heat of your current CPU

> R5 1500 6/12 16MB 65W 3.2GHz 3.5GHz $229

Hmm

@TOWMN OK, if you buy the i3-7350K or whatever it was, that one CPU that was like "lol I am a low-end dual core part that you can OC to have faster single thread perf than a 7700K turbo boosted"

Cheapest 6-core part, but nowhere close to $150

@GypsySpellweaver ok, if yo ucan ditch the cooler then just $110 isn't bad for that AMD CPU :P

Then again Intel's cheapest 6-core part is what, $600?

Nowait, $400

My FX-62, rated at 28Ghz is throttled to 20Ghz, just to avoid shutting down. That's under a Kingwin Gladiator cooler and lots of fans.

@TOWMN if that comes with a cooler in the box, I'd say get a cheap $80 micro ATX mobo and you're almost spending the same money but getting way more value

uh. "28 GHz"??

Still. I guess I'm used to virtualisation = consolidation and wide scaling

drop a magnitude on those

ah

For a home user virtualisation might depend more on single-thread perf if they just use it for running different OSs

@GypsySpellweaver dusty heatsink?

I'm a coder, not a gamer.

@GypsySpellweaver both @allquixotic and I are coders too...

@Bob Keep it clean regularly, have to with 13 cats!

well, we're also gamers, but that affects the GPU choice more :P

@allquixotic Eh I have an i5 46somethingK that overclocks far enough on a $30 mini-ITX cooler to beat a i7-6700 in games

@TOWMN Devil's Canyon?

Heck it'll match the i7-6700 with a low profile Intel stock cooler in multi-core

Last game I played was Call to power III in Linux

@GypsySpellweaver the Athon 64 FX-62 draws 125 Watts of power at peak load, and is much worse than modern CPUs at minimizing its power when it's not under peak load. You can get a CPU today around the 45 to 65 Watt Thermal Design Power area, which is around half, meaning it will generate half as much heat, and even less during idle

@Bob I think it was the pre-devil's canyon one...

Not 100% sure, it's on the other side of the planet atm

@TOWMN hm. wasn't DC supposed to improve overclockability?

@Bob Probably.

._.

I would wager that you could use your existing case, and the stock cooler that comes with the next CPU you buy, provided it's in the 65 Watt TDP range, and use integrated on-CPU graphics, and you'd shed so much heat that (1) you wouldn't need a custom cooler at all, and (2) you wouldn't need to buy those extra fans

does most of his virtualisation on atoms ._.

you could literally buy three parts and spend your entire ~$500 USD budget on: 16 gigs of RAM, an entry-level compatible motherboard (around $80-$90), and the rest on the CPU.

and get a great CPU that uses 60 Watts or less under peak load and usually around 10 or 20

Don't forget the hdd for heat

@GypsySpellweaver HDD heat is ... pretty negligible

@GypsySpellweaver pretty negligible

a 7200 RPM HDD dissipates around 8 to 12 watts

Eh devil's canyon i5 had +4w tdp and +100mhz stock speeds... so still not sure which it was

@GypsySpellweaver where/how do you start your builds from?

5 of them runs you around 60 watts

Wait I should check my gmail

Case is done. The MOBO needs the ports for the HDD, most entry level can't do so many

also, new motherboards dissipate less heat themselves

Nup it was the 4670k

Non devil's canyon

@GypsySpellweaver If HDD heat is a problem, you'd need more case fans. A CPU cooler wouldn't really help with that. oh wait you do have case fans in the list

@GypsySpellweaver ... 4x 500gb hard drives?

Whhhhyyyy?

(Just remembered that I originally bought the PC for my flatmate who later sold it back to me)

(So I have the receipt in my gmail)

@JourneymanGeek a done deal, it seems :P

@JourneymanGeek because it's what he owns

@JourneymanGeek Faster than 1x2TB!

@TOWMN Nothing like buying back your own computer

@GypsySpellweaver what Power Supply do you currently own?

@allquixotic eh. that's a good reason

@GypsySpellweaver You need 6 yea?

@GypsySpellweaver Well I bought it on my card but he gave me the money for it so he paid for it ultimately

PSU is something from 2004

The really low end would be 2 ports, but 6 is fairly common on higher-low-end :P

2004? that should support ATX 12V, you're fine :P

And I didn't so much as "buy it back" as swap him my newer 6700K system + £150

@GypsySpellweaver PSus generally don't get that obsolete

@JourneymanGeek 2004 is pushing the boundaries TBH

@JourneymanGeek Buy the new £900 CoolerMaster PSU that claims it'll be the last PSU you'll ever buy

@Bob true, but a replacement would be semi trivial

@TOWMN because it explodes and kills you?

I know it's modular, but the stats are out of reach

I have a mid-range 2006 PSU still running my Haswell Xeon E3 storage box with 26+ drives

Modular in 2004? :-o

@GypsySpellweaver more worried about old age related death and pretty massive efficiency improvements over time

Even my relationships weren't modular back in 2004

I'd love to keep it, just not sure it's compatable.It's 1Kw so it'll run everything no prob.

@GypsySpellweaver Yea, I don't think anyone here would recommend running pre-Ryzen AMD CPUs :P -- especially when you can shift things around a bit and get better Intel (or AMD Ryzen) parts

@GypsySpellweaver Eh. Long as it has a 24-pin ATX and a separate 12V CPU plug it'll be fine

wait I can't remember if modern CPUs used 2x the 12V things

what bob said

@Bob 4 or 8 pins?

@JourneymanGeek yea.

2x4 sorry

My ivy's 8

IIRC it has 24pin not sure about the CPU plug though.

though you could probably use an adapter on one of the molex peripheral plugs

hm

My old PC is heavier than I remember

@Bob Decent boards will support either

Anything above low-power boards will have 8-pin connectors but many work fine with just the old 4-pin connector (such as my Haswell Xeon system)

FYI, lost a good job in '84 cause of Intel, so don't support them, hence AMD. (Well, cause of Intel and Hitachi)

@GypsySpellweaver If you're doing AMD, wait a tiny bit for ryzen

while they arn't quite living up to the hype, their new stuff actually seems pretty solid.

The case and HDDs are done, though I'll eventually drop the 500G for multiTBs, I hope anyway.

@GypsySpellweaver Eh, totally your choice if you want to buy for political reasons, but I try to stay with pure tech specs when discussing.

But yea if you're going AMD get current-gen

^_^

Prev-gen AMD was terribad

Intel's been decent, if pricey, for the last decade or so

AMD pre-Bulldozer was alright/good, post-Piledriver is looking good

@GypsySpellweaver if you're willing to look past politics from a time before I was even born (1 year, in fact, but meh), my counter-offer to your original build that IMO would do you much better is here -- you save around $100, get a much newer mainboard, better PSU, runs cooler and quieter, 6 SATA slots, great virtualization performance, great onboard graphics and a heavily rebated mobo

Just skip the Excavator cores :P

I got my blind spots, but suggestions are always worth looking at.

oh also that one has much better single-thread performance and double the GPU performance

@TOWMN hm. I wonder if there's any rules around when it will and won't work

and you save money while doing it

though it it bonds them all in parallel then that wouldn't even matter

@allquixotic Now you mention it, I wonder if any of the people responsible are even still working at HitachiTel

@Bob If the manual says it will work, it will work

Otherwise... I haven't tried :-P

@TOWMN I'm not sure my manual even discusses it o.O

@allquixotic Huh, Kaby w/ DDR3?

@Bob My Xeon board manual explicitly says it'll work fine with either 4 or 8 pin connectors

oh well, probably cheaper :P

@Bob I think his sweet spot would be a (Ry)zen based APU, but you can't currently buy a (Ry)zen with any sort of IGP, and when they first hit the price will be artificially inflated (as Ryzen is now) due to scarcity and the "new" factor

Not as artificially inflated as Intel's prices >_>

the pre-Zen APUs are alright but not really competitive with Intel

and spending nearly $100 on cooling for a budget build while running incredibly hot chips is silly IMO

needlessly hot chips

@allquixotic raises hand paw

Guilty as charged

And incredibly stupid

@TOWMN you are capable of a budget build? huh. TIL

@TOWMN dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1151/MAXIMUS_IX_CODE/…

> Ensure to connect the 8-pin power plug.

(Spent >$300 on a custom loop watercooling system to cool an incredibly and needlessly hot R9 290 because it was way cheaper than a GTX 9xx)

I thought you only built big and expensive :P

@allquixotic Competitive isn't so much an issue. If I can compile Apache in less than 15min w/o thermal shut down I'm doing good. If I can have FF open at the same time, even better

Ironic, stupid, and pointless since i exchanged it for a GTX 970 in the end anyway

-_-

dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1151/MAXIMUS_IX_CODE/…

@GypsySpellweaver When you're on such a tight budget, additional questions tend to be "can it still do that in ten years?" and "where/how can I make it cheaper?"

If those aren't a concern for you, fine

@GypsySpellweaver huh? even on extremely low-end systems, scheduling improvements and cgroups in the Linux kernel are designed to help keep your programs (like Firefox) "responsive" while compiling something, even if you're compiling on all cores

But we can only suggest what we think are better builds...

If your mind's made up, fine

there's a famous test where a developer did make -j99 (spawn 99 concurrent compilers) and was able to surf Firefox as if his box were idle

on a dual core laptop

> how can I make it cheaper?

if you're not having that level of experience running, say, Windows, you're just hitting a software problem and need to run a better OS suitable for compiling

Find a rich boyfriend/girlfriend to pay for it so it becomes free

@TOWMN Yea my mobo manual basically says it needs the 8-pin :P

@allquixotic It would work fine on Windows if you set priority right

Then dump them and find someone else with a convenient nationality for you to obtain their passport

That's my plan for my life anyway

Ok lost the thread, who sent the pcpartspicker build?

pcp art spicker

@allquixotic I had a backup process performing compression and eating 100% of available CPU power - it lagged simultaneous gaming and browsing pretty heavily. Change process priority to low, and everything runs perfectly smoothly :P

Nah still not as funny as expertsexchange

@GypsySpellweaver I did, though if you're dead-set on AMD I can see how I would improve it while sticking with AMD

@Bob huh; nice doesn't do much on Linux, surprised it does on Windows

There's even a chance the people at Intel who were responsible for his demise ended up working at AMD or RTG now anyway

Lulz

Or Microsoft

Or WD

Or Seagate

Does that have on-board graphics

@TOWMN Or unemployed

@GypsySpellweaver For 4 decades? Must have been pretty old then, and just as likely retired/dead by now

@TOWMN The Intel build? Yes. All Intel parts barring the really expensive 6+-core enthusiast parts have on-die graphics. For AMD? If you pick an APU, yes. Otherwise... I don't think so?

@GypsySpellweaver anything I spec out for you will have some form of integrated graphics; as a non-gamer, there's really no justification for not using integrated graphics, especially for a budget development box where you're price-conscious. A dedicated graphics card is extraordinarily wasteful of heat dissipation, power, space, noise, and money, and low-end dedicated graphics cards that aren't intended for gaming are basically dead

@Bob And Xeons

@TOWMN And Xeons.

the low-end dedicated GPU market is more or less obsolete, thanks to the high performance of modern IGPs

Some of the Xeon E3's (which are cheaper than quad-core consumer i7's) come with the no iGP option

But you pingded the wrong person anyway

!!s/high/adequate/

@TOWMN the low-end dedicated GPU market is more or less obsolete, thanks to the adequate performance of modern IGPs (source)

well, yeah; if you're not gaming, literally all you need is adequate performance, and the "horribly laggy google.com" that IGPs used to be known for in 2006 no longer applies

they handle desktop compositing with ease

I wouldn't call "Can do just about anything on the Windows desktop fine but only run basic games on low/medium settings" to be "high performance"

even compositing in VMs

I use the VBox VMs for light duty only, and probably only have two in use at once, I might view movies, but then everything stops anyway (full attention to the movie). Otherwise I'm essentially text-based work (GNU/Linux X-Windows if it matters).

@TOWMN relative to the GMA 945 from my ThinkPad X61, Skylake IGP is blazing fast

!!s/i// 36073668

@TOWMN @TOWMN relatve to the GMA 945 from my ThinkPad X61, Skylake IGP is blazing fast (source)

lol

@TOWMN whoops.

I'm using terms that make sense to someone who last looked at computer hardware in the mid 2000s

@TOWMN even composting in VMs (source)

@allquixotic I might have a slightly older system for... gaming XDXDXD

Future usage isn't likely to change much, too old to change anyway.

!!s/Skylake IGP/a turtle/

@TOWMN @TOWMN @TOWMN relatve to the GMA 945 from my ThinkPad X61, a turtle is blazing fast (source) (source)

@GypsySpellweaver right, so your graphics performance doesn't matter to you considering that extremely light workload; so why go out of your way to spend extra money on graphics when your goal is to get as much CPU horsepower as possible for your money?

feel free to spend money sub-optimally, but I'm trying to help you get the most bang for your buck, which I would hope you'd value, because system requirements constantly increase as you upgrade to newer software, and in 10 years what you have won't seem that fast... unless you try and future-proof now

Dual-head (1920x1200 + 1280x1024) otherwise, graphics is modest

@GypsySpellweaver most onboard graphics can handle that these days without breaking a sweat

> 1920x1200 = 1280x1024

Wow someone is worse at math than me! Rejoice!

@JourneymanGeek Most onboard (on-die) graphics can handle more than a GT 710 can.

true

yeah, modern IGPs can handle 4K displays pretty well for non-gaming tasks

One down!

!!s/most/all/

@TOWMN @GypsySpellweaver all onboard graphics can handle that these days without breaking a sweat (source)

@allquixotic I think the shittiest modern IGP can handle 4k30

ehh

@Bob as proven out by the benchmarks showing typical IGPs getting double the GT 710's scores

Bearing in mind onboard graphics is reserved to server boards, anything else is on-cpu

!!ban @TOWMN

@JourneymanGeek @TOWMN added to mindjail.

@TOWMN I'll unban you once this is done. Its getting confusing.

And the lowest on-CPU that isn't an Atom can handle multiple 4K just fine

anyway, I'm going to work on another build that's AMD, because 32 year old grudges matter in the PC purchasing arena \o/

@TOWMN the problem for 4k on an atom is shared memory speed it seems

@JourneymanGeek you're confused? I'm trying to follow, digest, and roll with the punches, and type too.

@GypsySpellweaver I temporarily banned @TOWMN from using the bot ;p

Heck a Core m3 supports 3x 4096x2304

@GypsySpellweaver Yeah but he's an asshole dog, you're not

@TOWMN tsk tsk

@TOWMN next time you're in the hotel with a boat on top, I'll sneak in and leave a present right on the floor ;p

Even the Atom technically supports 3 displays, up to 4K on external, and 2560x1600 on internal

@GypsySpellweaver basically until... a few months ago, AMD's processor line was getting whipped badly by intel

and their last 2-3 generations are terrible except at a specific narrow range of tasks

Sounds like me :|

Next time I power down I'll have to check the PSU. See if it's 4-pin or 8-pin, and verify 24-pin, though I pretty sure it has that part right.

speaking of which

I'm going to try to power up a 2007 era system that hasn't been used in years

Sound like new to me ;P

anandtech.com/show/10705/…

can anyone find those CPUs for sale....?!!?!?

hmm

they have about 10-15% better PassMark scores than the previous gen APUs

and seem to retail for under $250

it powers up

that is, if anyone were selling them

hm, windows 10?

W-10 in 2007???

ok, that's not right

naw, this was upgraded a few times

something's messed tho

so... now I need to get a windows 7 key off a non booting system ;p

the cheapest Ryzen is $328 right now; that new factor is destroying AMD's MSRP price points

What's the deal with A10's, good/bad/passable? Seen lots or em recently in "shelf" computers.

@GypsySpellweaver cheap

Non-gamer use-case worthless, or worthwhile?

@GypsySpellweaver I have 2007 era c2ds in non gaming usage

so if the price is insanely good, maybe

Think a 2027 GNU/Linux kernel would run, usefully, on middling A10?

@GypsySpellweaver the currently available A10 chips (collectively the A4/A6/A8/A10 chips are called APUs because they come with integrated graphics) are okay, but they have much faster ones on the way soon

ugh

Now I need to work out the password for this

@GypsySpellweaver yes

Pa$$w0rd!

pcpartpicker.com/list/4zrpM8 -- my best attempt at an AMD build for you, no dedicated GPU... it's quite inexpensive, and gives you room to further expand your collection of 500 GB hard drives up to 8 if you want

actually, the hint is "totally useless password password"

It is a local account...

This benchmark is why I still recommend Intel, within your budget

but if you are glad to save money, that A10 build will definitely do that

I should stop socially engineering myself and just break in

@JourneymanGeek \o/

@JourneymanGeek gotta love FDE

I like Newegg, hate their site. sends CPU into 80%x2 usage :(

@allquixotic the alternative is a full reinstall

I have built-in FDE on my Apple stuff; McAfee (ugh) software FDE on work devices; no FDE (!) on my desktop

(please don't raid my home while I'm at work tomorrow FNBSIA)

@allquixotic and @JourneymanGeek On Newegg, and others, often see reviews moaning about the stock cooler. Likely gamers and overclockers? Or just people looking the throw salt?

@GypsySpellweaver stock cooler is generally good enough for non OC use

@GypsySpellweaver The stock cooler might struggle a bit under heavy use. But it'll be enough.

Put it this way, even under horrible thermal throttling it should still be at least 2x faster than your current CPU.

@allquixotic But if @GypsySpellweaver is worried about heat, that Intel chip has 2/3 the TDP of the AMD one :\

Yea. Really gotta wait for the Ryzen/new-gen APU parts if you want AMD.

If my PSU will migrate, I could drop the PSU, double the RAM and still get it done in ~6mo.

@GypsySpellweaver There's no real need to double the RAM... 16 GB is quite a lot.

@GypsySpellweaver 8gb's actually a good baseline for most people. 16 is "poweruser"

@JourneymanGeek I'd not go under 16 while running VMs, but unless you go crazy it's really enough.

And since you went 2x8, you can add another 2x8 at any time

there's no need to buy now

Or a few more TB of HDD

erf. the old box won't boot off a USB. I think

@GypsySpellweaver eh, yeah. I'd wait a bit though

Gonna miss my 5¼ though :(

0_0

@GypsySpellweaver I haven't seen one since my XT

unless you mean the bays

@JourneymanGeek Only a 720KB, the 3½ is 1.44MB though. Guess I'm gonna loose that too. Knew it had to happen eventually. The IDE HDDs are out too. Gonna have to empty the parts bucket after this.

@GypsySpellweaver I did that a while back

though at the moment I have smaller SATA drives to spare

and oddly I have 2 devices which need VGA cables and none that need DP

/me wibbles

I got smaller SATA coming out my ears. Smallest is 120G. Already recycled anything sub-100G.

Metal plant's gonna love me :)

smallest I have is 40gb

smallest in active use 120gb SSD