Anyway, yesterday's stuff.... @allquixotic could we consider mindjailing dog the next time this happens?

Oh right, I completely forgot that was a feature

I think the current punishment is sufficient, but getting the bot suspended should result in the loss of bot rights, at least temporarily

Yep

Also, it would be really nice to have some way to ping active ROs or mods

This seems like a feature the bot should have :D

Then we can stick a note about it in the room description, if desired

yup!

I could trivially add a thing to the PowerShell bot, but I don't know how the JS bot framework works, and another bot would probably be the opposite of helpful :p

@JourneymanGeek Agreed. There were no mods or even ROs present at the time this happened. I had to resort to a free-text mod flag.

@bwDraco You did what you had to

I was there, watching, but things had started happening before I could decide what to do. Sorry :/

Your bedside manner could use a little work, so to speak.

@JourneymanGeek Explain?

@bwDraco you resort to the accusatory and referring to a person

Hmm. Come to think of it...

"Hey, could you stop abusing the bot please? It might get it suspended" - refers to the action and the concequence.

Contrast it with

> <user>, can you please not abuse the bot to generate offensive messages? It's a resource for the community; we don't want to get it suspended.

I wouldn't even say the " It's a resource for the community;"

or the victorian we

> Also, covering your tracks by deleting the commands isn't exactly cool.

Well, assuming the best of someone initially saves so much work.

Hopefully, if I spend some more time outside, I'll gain critical social soft skills and address these issues in time. I have a full-day outing planned tomorrow.

I have this thing called the theory of motivation - that people act according to an underlying need. If you understand someone's motivation, you can understand how they act, and appeal to that sense of motivation.

qasdf desires attention. You desire recognition or a sense of accomplishment.

Slate Star Codex is relevant as always

Well, it was obvious that the user was trolling. I tried not to grant the extra attention; I just flagged it right away.

Knowing that qasdf has me ignored, I figured it was okay for me to post that response. I guess this was a mistake.

ah, but you also know they look at transcripts.

Also, alt account

@BenN another reason why I'd prefer this sort of thing handled "in the family"

Most non regulars wouldn't know that.

IIRC, interestingly, Genghis Khan's laws mostly only pertained to inter-house conflicts. Inside the house, crimes should be dealt with internally without the state fiddling around

lol

Surprise history lesson!

I guess these soft skills will come with time. Again, I have lots of activities planned to address these issues.

I mean, if the sock was used, we'd need to suspend both ;p

(which has happened before)

Yep :)

Don't tempt fate.

I don't tempt fate. I grab it by the neck and shake it.

I'll try to avoid ad hominem statements like this in the future.

The motivation for the trolling was very clear to me, but I made a bit of a mistake in how I responded to it. I'll bear this in mind should this happen again.

Anyway, remember the goal of moderation is to defuse first then detonate in place.

Just like a bomb tech ;p

Again, I have a full-day outing planned tomorrow. Spending time on the field socializing will make a difference.

@JourneymanGeek you're a RO, so you, any diamond mod, or Bob or DavidPostill, etc. could mindjail him if desired, and I would not "un-mindjail" him if any of you did

@allquixotic yes, but I want to know what you think about it.

Cause as the bot owner, your opinion does matter, and this would essentially be room policy.

@JourneymanGeek I'd say more than a little work.

I will support whichever policy is set forth in the room by the mods as it relates to the bot / the bot banning people as long as I (and by extension, the bot) choose to be here; and mindjailing Dog wouldn't be enough to get me to leave, in and of itself

I just feel so jealous and disappointed every time I get called out for things like this. My parentage has long put me at a disadvantage.

@allquixotic I don't want people leaving for the wrong reasons.

I don't have any specific opinion on it without dredging up what I feel from earlier (which, TL;DR, is I don't think the behavior he exhibited was really worth any fuss at all)

@bwDraco you can crash on my sofa when i get my flat

If people leave cause moderation has failed the users, We've messed up as mods.

@Burgi and you'd get him properly drunk and debauched?

of course

but like I said, that's just my opinion, and apparently not the majority anymore now that rooms are required to enforce "Be Nice", as was explained by another mod

i have a stag party in july

I'm not sure what the Official Policy is on that TBH

which effectively whitewashes chat, something I'm really not happy about, but again, it hasn't yet come to a point where I'm just going to throw up my hands and say "I'm done"

So, in summary, the flag was the right call to make, but I had replied on the erroneous assumption that the user wouldn't see it and I should not have used ad hominem phraseology.

Users don't see mod flags IIRC

Though it is kind of obvious that somebody flagged something when foreign mods flood in

@allquixotic I'd much rather people politely talk to each other and sort things out. The users in question...

@BenN Mercifully so; otherwise we'd have had dozens of room owners or 10k'ers (I forget which) bombarding the room after the flag

!!flagged

And when these events happen I do talk to the mods in question if something's not right.

see its useful!

@allquixotic Right, users with >10K combined rep can see standard rude/abusive flags

Well, wish me good luck as I work on building soft skills.

IIRC everyone can see that a given message was standard-flagged, but not everyone can act on it

Ah

yeah, its 10K only

Let me double-check...

Yup.

i can't see flags

It's 10k only.

@JourneymanGeek What is 10K?

flag blindness

10,000 reputation

@JourneymanGeek yeah, I'm fine with (you/insert diamond mod/CM name here) talking to the user who was suspended, etc... I'm not happy with the "new policy" in chat, but if it's from TPTB, there's nothing you or I or anyone can do about it unless someone in here happens to be a senior officer of StackOverflow Inc

@PaulVargas users with 10,000 reputation on any one site get limited flag handling powers on chat.

its a mini-marathon

@PaulVargas Sum of reputation on all sites associated with this chat server must be 10,000 or higher. (That excludes Meta Stack Exchange and Stack Overflow, which each have their own chat servers.)

@allquixotic my preference is flags should be reserved for the worst of the worst

Yep, I got chat 10K abilities before hitting 10K on SU

but I'm also not happy with many political goings-on at the moment, and they're not enough to make my leave my country, so obviously a subject citizen/user can be "unhappy" and still tolerate it

@JourneymanGeek Ahhh!! +@bwDraco

I wouldn't have flagged this. I'd have suggested they stop please or else

kinda like those 4X turn-based strategy games, where cities have Morale or Happiness scores

there's no revolution or revolt or destruction of buildings until happiness gets down into the 20s or 30s (out of 100)

I'd say I'm sitting pretty around 68 right now, so proceed :)

lol

Something I try very hard not to let happen!

@JourneymanGeek just be glad you don't have to write report cards for all of us

@Burgi >_>

@Burgi I actually do keep a mental note of people.

Once again, theory of motivation ;p

So much to change...

@JourneymanGeek Where did you learn this?

its not the same though

I've never really been a people person and it's time to move forward.

@bwDraco I learnt it from moderating chatrooms for a better part of a decade.

I'm jealous.

@bwDraco observing bad managers moderators

the principle is the same

I... don't think this needs special action.

Again, I've already planned full-day trips to fast-track building these skills.

i'm not sure you can "grind" social skills

@Burgi you can in SWTOR, actually :D

run a bunch of flashpoints / operations with others and your social level goes up

@Burgi actually that

The big issue is lack of social exposure.

in eve online you get social skills that need charisma

I just want to cry. WHY AM I SO FAR BEHIND???????

:P

Seriously, though, this is weighing my heart down and I'm searching for a path forward.

lol

@bwDraco do you have any IRL friends who will let you crash on their sofa for a few days?

Pretty much no-one.

You see, this is why I'm so socially inept. I have nobody to talk to, almost no real friends outside the house.

you know you can text them and say "help! i'm feeling crap" and they will help you out...

My parents are scaredy-cats who are literally scared to death about something bad happening when I'm not at home.

you have a mobile phone

there is a point where you have to just take the plunge and go outside

The weather has not been playing nice lately. We were dealing with gale-force and even storm-force gusts earlier today.

meh! welcome to (new) england

Last week, we had to deal with a big snowstorm.

@Burgi Again, I'm in New York City.

you like your photography iirc, join the local club and go weekly

@Burgi Well, I'll definitely look into this.

make sure to sneak (appropriate) pictures of the pretty girls in the photography group ;)

^^^ this

lol

@allquixotic So, any advice on how to move forward on soft skills? I'm 24 and way behind.

@bwDraco you're not "way behind" for 24; many people are far less clueful of socialization at your age

or anti-clueful where they have totally the wrong impressions and are aggressive, snobbish, bullying, etc

@bwDraco offer to clear the snow from peoples driveways

lol.

I have 1 and 3. Also used to be a total shutin with serious serious anxiety issues

I disappeared from the more social parts of the internet for a few years cause I couldn't deal with talking to people

I'll say that my self-control has been improving rapidly but it's just not enough.

@JourneymanGeek I think there was (at least) a year during which I played zero multiplayer games, despite having no technical reason not to

yup

@bwDraco one thing that helped me develop verbally and be more comfortable with verbal communication (I had a severe problem with this) was talking on VoIP with fellow gamers in guilds/clans online... Teamspeak, Ventrilo, etc

bedtime

also a good socialization avenue

@allquixotic Can we have a TS call some point in the future?

it took me a long time to get used to being "Not Funny" - one of the things that kept me from being popular was my extreme fear of my wit being rejected and then made fun of

now it's to the point that I just don't care -- if I say something funny, great; if not, I get silence and move on and don't let it bother me

or follow it up with a "...No? ...Okay..." which might itself garner some laughs

@allquixotic that's the secret of being funny though ;p

I have the opposite issue. Recent incidents show that my not having a sense of humor is actively hurting me.

I learnt to stop caring of what people thought of me.

@bwDraco you live in NYC and are a sort of recluse. that is like 2 of the 3 things you need to become a crime fighting superhero

@bwDraco sure... though you might want to get used to throwing yourself to the wolves, as it were, by joining a guild (you don't have to be too terribly selective as to how good they are; people are people) and just jump in

@Burgi he's not a millionaire tho

@JourneymanGeek if he becomes Louis Rossmann's assistant he might be ;p Louis is very money-smart

@JourneymanGeek neither was peter parker

I don't do MMOs, but we can have a voice chat.

(Louis runs an Apple repair shop on 1st avenue)

spidey is the very definition of an extrovert.

wait a minute!

NYC, likes photography....

I've looked into going out for most or all of a day up to three times a week, depending on my schedule.

@bwDraco IS peter parker

@Burgi gee brain, where do we find a radiactive spider at 3 in the morning?

ooh! idea!

@allquixotic get @bwDraco bitten by a radioactive spider?

lol

Mr. Yottabyte-per-second Internet Connection himself, @JourneymanGeek, could stream over Steam or Twitch for you to watch us play our weekend games, and you can join us in TS meanwhile

@allquixotic I've never tried that ;p

I'm not quite comfortable with doing this.

@allquixotic is a government spook, they have allsorts of radioactive spiders in their vaults

My parents will very likely object.

I'm sure it'd be fine; you'd still have 0.9999999999 YB/s left

I'll see what I can do.

@allquixotic I'm actually more curious about post last mile speeds

I do connect over homeplug ;p

anyway... bedtime

My schedule is under pretty strict control of my parents, who again are risk-averse.

@JourneymanGeek you mean long distance international speeds?

@allquixotic no, quite literally the speeds from the main router to my desktop

oh

I have the best variety of homeplug possible

Even then, @Bob and I sometimes have issues gaming ;p

... because I was gonna say, if your problem is on the international link, sometimes switching over to a domestic VPN in a datacenter with a close tier 1 hop can save you a lot of latency

there was this chick who had tremendous difficulty ever logging into Second Life from Malaysia; I helped her acquire and set up VPN service with a nearby datacenter-owning medium business which had begun advertising VPN as a service (this was in 2008, so it was kinda new)

tbh, we could do with redoing our wiring but tech spending is tricky and wierd.

she went from totally being unable to ever log into Second Life, to having no problems

"route around the damage" etc etc

so, we'd want to test this first ;p

lol

We'll see what I can do.

@JourneymanGeek ooh, ooh, do me, do me! :P

ME TOO!

@Bob you're a fox.

@Bob your motivation is to acquire shiny baubles to hold between your paws while smiling freakishly

@BenN yea, mod flags are much nicer than offensive flags unless something is currently on fire. but this was a semi-on-fire case maybe

Mother is more sensible in this regard.

@Bob A mod was needed because deleted messages were involved.

I cannot flag deleted messages.

@allquixotic that's a giant chill pill

@bwDraco I think I'd be a Maryland-dwelling exact copy of you if I hadn't gotten a job some 5 years ago; I was unemployed and not actively schooling for almost a year and a half, tough time but I got over it

Actually, both of you are pretty similar

You both care about the communities you're in a lot

@Bob he really needed to chill ;)

@allquixotic It was a joke.

> WHY AM I SO FAR BEHIND???????

You're both not very confident in your selves though when shit happens you guys step up

@allquixotic that helped me a lot too :P gradually got more comfortable with voice chat in-game

This sums it up:

But both you guys arn't trouble

@bwDraco I read it in a tone of desperation, maybe not a tone of humor, because I am not used to you being funny :P

so very little work is needed with you guys

@JourneymanGeek except when I get suspended for talking about DJT

I don't need to motivate you guys to do the right thing.

@allquixotic actually I got the impression shog was baffled too

and I'd have removed the suspension earlier if I'd known

and what you said reflects the fact you care

@JourneymanGeek that's really last mile. or more like last metre. over the air. your headset. washing machines.

yup

Most of my issues involve that bit

I THINK the washing machines is inteference.

thonk .... RUN A-WAY!!! thonk thonk .... (The washing machine chasing JMG)

@Bob ...or more accurately, local network infrastructure.

afk, dinner.

@JourneymanGeek wait, both of who?

qux and you

@JourneymanGeek Funny, I tend to call him @allq.

I'm quix on teamspeak

yup

@allquixotic LOL

@Bob I swear, one day that thonking contraption of thonk is going to consume our little wauzer friend :(

@bwDraco I started with "@allq" cause that's pingable but switched to quix (on his suggestion) cause it's actually pronounceable

it must be seriously scary to be physically near it.

I find @Bob very hard to pronounce

Apparently it's not "Bahb"; it's "Baub" or something o_O

lol

you're one to talk :P

@allquixotic wauzers fear nothing. Except heights ;p

@allquixotic you should've seen the other day... geek was on mumble in a different channel, I switched in, only to get blasted by a ridiculously loud/continuous stream of washing machines

password security FTW... fun story... $COMPANY_INTERNAL_SYS (first-party) complains "Your password is expiring!" and then "Your password has expired!" ... .... ... if you go to the link where it prompts for password reset, then click the original link (bookmark) again, you can go to the website unhindered; if you do this for a week, it relieves you of your reset responsibility entirely until the next N-month cycle comes along

so you can use the same password forever :D

@bwDraco I was referring to "issues gaming" which is more likely related to @JourneymanGeek's headset than his network connection.

@allquixotic wtf. how does that even work.

@Bob and how my fix is to move the transmiter ;p

@allquixotic I struggle to imagine any sane implementation that does that.

@Bob I have no idea how it's coded, but it's some really obscure framework that's not at all familiar and incorporates proprietary third-party middleware

(probably because it's not sane. but even then...)

it could just be a front-end-only password reset reminder/nag but no backend expiry

I imagine clicking the link clears the "needs password reset" flag

Which is super weird, but the simplest explanation

@allquixotic our password expiry stuff built on top of AD FS was/is bad enough -_-

Also. The bloody AD SetPassword routine doesn't respect password history and I'm not enough of a masochist to try to piece it together with raw LDAP operations.

Is that the function that forcibly resets a user's password?

@BenN Yea. Requires account management privileges.

If so, it makes some sense for it to not fail on an already-used password

@BenN It does. Just annoying that there isn't an equivalent macro for resetting passwords.

So it's either DIY, don't have reset, or live with reset also resetting history.

DIY's not too bad, but more than I'm willing to try to understand/test.

@BenN The other fun one was sending password expiry reminders. Think someone write a PS script for that :P

:D

:35418670 might just be your upbringing / parents' influence / culture, but I can't help but remark how deliberate you always are at self-improvement... I mean, I may sometimes say things in my head like "I gotta lose weight" or whatever, but I don't try to "grind out" things in the "fast lane" or anything like my life's some kind of a min-max problem

I let self-improvement come naturally through experience and reflection

@allquixotic or the autism or at least the social expectation of it.

@Bob !!!!!! thanks for the reminder :O

/me goes into 30 day expiry system and logs in to make sure he isn't locked out

@Bob Hmhm, Reddit suggests that you can forcibly reset the password to something predictable, then use the normal change-password function, which will then respect history

And, best of all, you can use PowerShell!

@BenN Hm. I thought SetPassword cleared history entirely.

@BenN AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! D: (screaming, not a happy sigh of relaxation)

That's what I would expect too; very interesting if this approach actually works

Unfortunately, they've shut down my testing AD and I probably shouldn't try this out on prod, so guess I won't be finding out any time soon.

I have a testing AD right here

@allquixotic Ha. We can still change expired passwords, just not log in directly with them. Which goes with the whole AD thing.

One moment please

@Bob if this one $VERY_IMPORTANT_ACCOUNT expires, I have to submit an official form and get umpteen people to sign off on it, including someone who pulls the purse string on $CUSTOMER's side, and they tend to be very unhappy to be bothered by re-approving people because their credential expired

@allquixotic ow.

@BenN Huh. That reminds me. I actually do have a RDG server on Azure... wonder if I set AD up on that at some point.

brb.

> Your computer can't connect to the remote computer because the Remote Desktop Gateway server's certificate has expired or has been revoked. Contact your network administrator for assistance.

flumpf.

well

I'm screwed.

This VM is the ultimate in slowness, so this will take a few more moments

Also, oof :/

@BenN But is it slower than a Basic A0 instance? :P

0.75 GB RAM, never mind the CPU!

Azure really really needs a remote console.

speaking of. please vote: feedback.azure.com/forums/216843-virtual-machines/suggestions/…

and also feedback.azure.com/forums/34192--general-feedback/suggestions/…

Votes have been cast

thanks

the irony of having to fire up another Linux VM to tunnel into a RDG server

The following packages have been kept back:
  linux-cloud-tools-virtual linux-headers-generic linux-headers-virtual
  linux-image-extra-virtual linux-image-generic linux-image-virtual
  linux-virtual snapd ubuntu-core-launcher vim vim-common vim-runtime vim-tiny
The following packages will be upgraded:
  accountsservice apparmor apport apt apt-transport-https apt-utils base-files
  bind9-host bsdutils cloud-init cloud-initramfs-copymods
  cloud-initramfs-dyn-netconf console-setup console-setup-linux curl dbus

I'm scared :(

Oh my

Also, I confirm that using the reset-then-supply-OldPassword trick works

@BenN Huh. Interesting.

@BenN now I'm trying to remember the PS command I used to generate the cert :P

Set-RDCertificate somethingsomethingsomething?

not a clue!

probably something involving New-SelfSignedCertificate

New-RDCertificate looks possibly helpful, but I've never worked with this set of cmdlets before

!!/learn powershell <>https://i.imgur.com/l8oGYaU.jpg

@bwDraco Command powershell learned

...took me a while to piece the background together.

Nice :D

@BenN Huh. That woudl've been useful, if I had not just fone it via the GUI :P

Though I'll probably do a proper long-expiry one later.

Hehe, whatever works

Unfortunately, New-RDCertificate doesn't seem to take an expiry

Ok, this machine is not part of a domain

whoops

maybe the Server2016 VM?

Ah. I suspect you would have had to use New-SelfSignedCertificate (or even the X509Certificate .NET class) and then Set-RDCertificate

@BenN Yea, if I wanted a custom expiry.

I've done something similar before.

New-SelfSignedCertificate was a godsend... would've had to openssl it otherwise :P

I'm no graphic designer, so this took a while for me to do correctly.

Seeing that @BenN essentially made a meme out of "use PowerShell!", I couldn't resist.

I think I'm going to redo this, hang on...

New indie bundle looks interesting arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/02/…

!!/forget powershell

@bwDraco Command powershell forgotten.

@bwDraco you can probably do bot training in BO

!!/learn powershell <>https://i.sstatic.net/oF3jN.png

@bwDraco Command powershell learned

...and I'm finished.

:D

also... ugh, so many shades of grey colours.

the older one was better IMO :p

Contrast. The first image had too little contrast; the PowerShell icon didn't really stand out.

chat.stackexchange.com/…

> I guarantee this comment section will be 100% civil and in now way a flaming wasteland. Yessir.

Huh, the first usage of that phrase was about exactly two years ago

Also, the full text is "You can use PowerShell!". Splitting it over two lines makes the text stand out.

The whole point of a meme image is to make a humorous statement.

I like that you included the full text of the exclamation :)

Also, huh, Valentine's Day is tomorrow

Again, I'm not exactly a graphic designer, but it was fun doing this :)

Without the text...

!!/powershell-notext

Make of that what you will.

floofshell

lol

!!/powershell-blue

Adventures in making meme images...

(This is the first time I've done this. Seriously.)

You're doing fine :)

:P

Redid the blue image to use the full text.

!!/powershell-blue

...and that's enough.

I'm a fan

@JourneymanGeek very fanny

I think I found @Psycogeek's soul mate.

@JourneymanGeek did you get your new chair?

@Bob er, yeah?

and my regretting my whole plan to bring it back on the bus ;p

chat.stackexchange.com/messages/34954397/history

@Bob very nice indeed. B/W is so 1960s :-)