@Bob did you see the picture of the "dog" in the scrollback?

450w IS overkill!

I'm running a 50% overclocked 4670K and a 50% overclocked GTX 970 on my 450w Corsair and it barely spins up the fans most days

@allquixotic uh, yea, posting a hardware question, on MSO no less... ooookay.

@allquixotic :D (cc @JourneymanGeek)

@Dog odd. I'm the specs say fans are only off below 25-30%, and I'm seeing my UPS report 300+ under (benchmarking/stress testing) load

@ThatBrazilianGuy e-peen

@Bob Eh it depends on heat not strictly load

then again idle is still only 100-150

Takes about 20 minutes of full burn before the fans spin up, at constant max load

Also my CPU fan is pointing up directly at the intake of the PSU so it probably gets some cooling off that

@Bob And getting into a rollback war on SU

@Dog that's what I'd expect, but not what the specs say :P

@DavidPostill Actually I think it was mostly the deleted answers here

@Bob Probably a rough-estimate based on some specified ambient conditions

@Dog that actually makes it worse... I don't have aircon so the room is routinely 30+ in summer

usually those tests are at 20-25

@BenN Oh yes. I didn't know about those. How did you find them?

Same as voltage tolerances and output ratings are given at a specific ambient temperature and pressure etc, not "every situation everywhere:

thats our office, note the swings

@DavidPostill I flagged them :)

@Bob Meh these are tested at 40'c or 50'c intake temps

Based on the "traditional" ATX design of the PSU above the CPU cooler drawing in hot air directly from the CPU exhaust

@BenN So I see now I'm reading them carefully :)

@Dog I'm gonna have to measure after I get a case with decent airflow. But I think current internal temps are at least that :P

@Bob :-o

problem is, it's kinda hard to point a thermometer into a closed case

My internal temps haven't exceeded that in years

do you guys want to see the lego that this girl bought me?

My climate control computer has four air temperature sensors dotted throughout the inside of the case, plus airflow temp readings off the HDDs/SDDs, and two or three external air temperature sensors outside the case

I'll have to check when I get home

only have a mobo sensor to go off, plus vague readings off an IR thermometer

depends which part of the case too :P

It also has a sensor sandwitched between my GPU waterblock and VRM heatpipe that I built myself plus one sandwiched between some control module and the backplate

current one's psu is alright, fairly far away from the GPU that puts out most of the heat

@BenN so if this made the wall of the star Chinese banner can i get a medal

Mind you this was with the watercooling setup, with both radiators blowing hot air into the case

also it's a blower so most GPU heat goes out the back too

But the water temperature rarely exceeded 40'c

Aaanyway

@DeerSpotter I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to, but if you're wondering about badges, here's the list

Point being PSU ratings are often based on "typical" aka reasonably hot internal case conditions not whatever the lowest working temperature they could find to make their product look good

@Dog that's different :P

@BenN well if it was the star spangled banner than you guys wouldve taken a different approach

would smart TVs be on topic on Internet of Things?

Modern servers rated for free air cooling are rated for 34'c or something external intake temperature

it's been a long time since I even tried to get proper temp measurements

i.e. 34'c or higher room temperature outside the computer

@Dog that's a fairly good average on a hot day in summer

highest I've seen was 45 but that's like one day every couple years

sometimes 40 but that's rare too

36-38 might be the highest 'normal'

In scotland 15 is probably the highest normal... we don't even need specially rated servers to do free air cooling

30-34 is pretty common

@Burgi Well it's not off-topic according to iot.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic

@Dog that works for winter here :P

you know what would be awesome? if Apple had top-end models of laptops in stock at Apple stores so you could waltz in and buy one without waiting for it to be built and shipped from China

quite simple that thread where the war began with the races, im looking at your example answers on that thread (BEN N.) I followed a leaders example, and i still get me answer deleted

@allquixotic s/in stock at Apple stores so you could waltz in and buy one without waiting for it to be built and shipped from China//

:P

@DavidPostill i just spent 10 mins looking for that link and you found it immediately....

@burgi The on-topic page needs a little fleshing out :)

I wonder how much they sell at first-party stores vs first-party website vs third-party retailers

@DavidPostill Yeah, that's just the default one you get when the site is created

@BenN It's all on topic :)

have they got a chatroom?

ty

Stupid abbreviations

It should be IOTTSNBCTTI

@Burgi iot.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/smart-tv Single smart TV question - hasn't been closed as off-topic

@Dog ?

Internet Of Things That Should Not Be Called...?

types on a MBP with iphone right next to it

*performs exorcism*

@allquixotic It's funny how you joined in after Jobs passed and Apple arguably started going downhill.

@allquixotic but all the managers use it

@Bob well, the thing is, Jobs' Reality Distortion Field was so powerful that I saw right through it... his use of terms like "magical" and "it screams", etc. was a huge turn-off... it was like he was trying too hard

then it just must be good

we use macs in my company

Tim Cook doesn't really have a Reality Distortion Field. He tries, but he's just bad at it. Tim Cook is a thinner Steve Ballmer, IMO. He's nothing special.

they don't play well with corporate infrastructure

I find now that (1) I'm better informed than I used to be and (2) I don't make purchases without seriously considering the whole package on its actual technical merits and usefulness to me

@Burgi we do too. There is 1 mac for all the developers on our team. Used basically to test css/

I'm willing to sink serious dough for something that does what I want; "what I want" has also changed and evolved over time as I've become more pragmatic and less idealistic about software

@tereško oh hey :P

and all of the "sales team" is using macs

we keep one iMac around to test Safari (and debug Safari on iOS)

oh, yeah ... secretay has iMac

@tereško the dev team (me and my minion) are the only ones to use Windows boxes...

@Bob noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

@Bob the thing is, I'm not even sure by what logic people are saying Apple is "going downhill". They have tons of money; their products are pretty good; the only thing they're not doing is consistently introducing entire new market segments into the consumer electronics world every 3-5 years, like they did for about 10 or 15 years there. Apple Watch doesn't count because it failed so bad

!!s/Called/connected to the internet/ 34579676

@Dog That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.

devs all sit on various linux distros

@tereško my frontender wants a mac

your frontend dev needs his head smacked

most of our sites are legacy and use .NET

They've "settled" into a company that is growing more slowly than they used to, but they're still making good products. And they've also become more pragmatic and willing to "give" on issues that drive their customers crazy, to consumers' benefit.

@Dog Internet Of Things That Should Not Be connected to the internet...? (source)

@allquixotic Mostly that they've deviated from their previous ideals, and there's ... uh ... interesting (design) quirks? to their more recent products.

setting up a normal gulp/webpack environment is a bitch on Mac, and the sites need to be tested on IE and various Android devices

@Bob The leak they couldn't fix was exactly what I said it was all along - defective adhesive around the rear camera opening.

I superglued it and now my phone's fully waterpprof. Well, it was

@tereško i completely agree

@Dog put a bit of epoxy around it?

we use browserstack for testing

@Dog why no?

@Bob I like some of their deviations. But I agree that it's kind of hit or miss. The design quirks are amusing, because in the case of things like the touch bar, USB-C exclusive ports, and removal of the headphone jack, I actively embrace these things, and would have bought products from other vendors (and hailed them as a good thing) if they did the same.

@Burgi we have account on it too .. it is not used for testing, but because someone somewhere in management was sold it.

Even Lightning, as proprietary as it is, is a fantastically good connector. Much easier to plug in a lightning cable than micro USB, and it's been around since USB-C was a thing.

@allquixotic touchscreen > touchbar, every time

you cant use it to see why the side menu on Android4.4 is spazzing out

@Bob Superglue worked

I still don't get the fuss around reversible connectors, tbh

is usb really that hard? o.O

Granted, they should seriously consider moving all iPhones over to USB-C now, but that'd be another painful transition for legacy iPhone users

@tereško we can

its really worth it

feel for the clips on the plug, know it's on the bottom, plug it in

takes under a second

@Bob it's a goddamn pain in the ass for me... I dunno about most but I spend like a minute trying to plug in a micro or mini-USB connector. USB-A is fine; I just need light to look at the connector and the socket and line them up

it's pretty futile in the dark, either way.

@allquixotic also, Moto Z went no-TRRS a while ago

@ThatBrazilianGuy That's why I'm a cat

@allquixotic that sounds really really weird to me

it's... never been a problem for me

type-A, on the other hand...

@Bob meh, I spend enough time using microfiber cloths to clean off my phone's screen; I'm quite happy to keep my laptop's screen free of fingerprints, and the keyboard/chassis of a Macbook is amazing at hiding evidence of fingerprints, in general. Basically I'm saying I hate laptop touchscreens. The touchpad is fast enough that I don't need it, anyway.

as a parting note: is it just me or CES has bee really fucking underwhelming

@tereško my minion found this weird issue in safari

@Bob true; Apple isn't the first, so I don't get why Apple gets so much flak for the change. It's just an obvious design win to remove an antiquated connector and move to digital audio paths.

And it's long past time people man up and move to Bluetooth (or, generally speaking, some wireless audio), anyway.

@allquixotic I don't exactly recall people praising the Moto Z for that decision

@allquixotic And considering audio is analog by nature, that whole idea is... off.

It's not like you're doing unnecessary digital => analog => digital conversions.

That's bad.

What do they really gain by doing it?

A tiny battery size increase?

@allquixotic its just a conspiracy to sell those silly £150 earphones that fall out all the time

An even thinner phone? (...we're to the point of ridiculousness by now)

$5 off the BOM per device? not like it's going to be any cheaper to the consumer

@Bob it's "analog by nature", sure, but virtually all (or actually all-all?) audio playback originating from a digital device starts out as digital. Having analog be just the speakers or headphone drivers at the very end of the audio path allows you to do digital tricks to keep the signal flawless while compensating for interference, for example. Buffering and encoding (error correction) and re-sends can compensate for significant SNR degradation that would sound bad with analog.

And even $2000+ Q4 2016 model laptops still ship with enough EM polluting components that if you put a 3.5mm jack in the wrong place, it'll pick up interference on your headphones from the IGP or the SSD or the monitor or CPU or whatever

@allquixotic And you have significant degradation over a 1-2m cable, at maybe up to 40kHz?

see: Dell XPS 13"

Wireless eventually leaves you with needing to charge your headphones.

also, the fully digital path does enable wireless; analog wireless is a crapshoot and would sound terrible, whereas digital wireless can be done well so that it's low-latency, high-quality and compensates well for interference

That's always fun. Especially with all the people unhappy about charging a watch.

lets be honest most iphones play awful hippty hop from a tiny speaker on the back of the bus at a silly volume.

@allquixotic And the two are not mutually exclusive.

@Bob meelec's $100-ish headphones can give you, easily, a full 24+ hours of listening between charges... which for 9-5 workers means you charge your in-office headphones twice a week at most

They've coexisted fine for years.

teh majority of users aren't audiophiles

@allquixotic I'm thinking more the earbud style.

A full over-ear/on-ear set is rather bulky.

@allquixotic Well, I lost my Bluetooth headset a while back... time to get a new one?

@Bob okay, they still haven't made long-lasting batteries for earbuds/IEMs because you have so little space to put batteries... but I anti-prefer earbud/IEM style because they ALWAYS fall out of my ears, no matter how they're designed

(The Plantronics M165 is a bit too small for my taste)

my ears are very oddly shaped, large, and very oily/waxy; basically a worst-case for earbuds

Earbuds are still the preferred option for most commuters. And sports use too.

@Bob I can see earbuds being the only way to go for runners, but for commutes, on-ear cans are perfectly fine; I've got tons of experience doing that and I haven't hit a downside yet

BeoPlay H8 fits flush in a small laptop bag without a fuss

@allquixotic It goes back to the carrying-them-around thing.

@Bob better ingress protection

Works for car travel, maybe (in which case you have car speakers).

Doesn't really work for public transport.

@allquixotic Sure. Because waterproof phones with TRRS ports can't possibly exist, can they?

Because they don't have any ports at all, do they?

Because they can't make the lightning port waterproof, can they?

@Bob who rides public transport without carrying around some kind of a bag with them? backpack, purse for women, laptop case...? I mean, I guess there are people who insist on being able to carry everything with them "on their person" in pockets, but at least in the USA, and keeping in mind I rode public trans for 7 years, like 95% of the people have a bag of some kind they carry around

lol

@allquixotic More and more people these days, tbh.

@allquixotic Less paper (fewer briefcases).

if you're not carrying a bag, that means you're not carrying a laptop

Sometimes a small laptop but those are usually in sleeves now, not full bags.

Even laptop bags have gotten slimmer.

...I wouldn't be caught dead traveling anywhere without a laptop, either as a student or as a commuter to a job

o.O

even while driving?

There's basically nowhere to cram a headset 5cm at its thinnest

compare a typical lightweight laptop/tablet at 2cm, which the sleeves/bags are designed for

@Bob indeed they have; I have a very slim laptop bag I got with my HP corporate-issued laptop, it just barely slots the laptop itself, but I still manage to find room for the bulky charger and my headphones :P

if my company give me a laptop i am going to make sure i leave it in the office

I guess they wouldn't fit in a sleeve, but seriously, if you're going to say I can't have headphones because I don't want to put my laptop in a bag....... come on

a sleeve is more fragile anyway; most bags will protect a laptop from an accidental drop; a sleeve won't do jack

@allquixotic Of the BT headphones I've seen, in the sub-$100 range, they're either bulky or have poor battery life.

There's no way the meelecs (for example) would fit.

@Bob how bulky are we talking about? bulkier than the meelec matrix, whose cups fold to be in-line with the headband? bulkier than the beoplay h8? or are you saying that those two examples by themselves are too bulky?

I've tried.

@allquixotic I'm not sure I'm spending $500 on headphones...

@allquixotic They fit fine in a bigger bag, more briefcase-sized. They don't fit at all in a bag designed for a 13" laptop.

amazon.com/PLAY-Bang-Olufsen-Headphone-Cancelling/dp/B00R45Z2IE

I've moved back to a (small) backpack, and even then the meelecs take up a lot of space inside.

@bwDraco they're not for everyone :)

the sennheiser momentum wireless is cheaper now, and still great for listening to music

@allquixotic I guess I really need to find a proper job soon...

the on-ears are smallish and don't have the BT problems the over-ears did

That's still $500.

Oh. The other problem I've had with BT headphones.

The mic is nowhere near the mouth.

Not great if you actually want to use em as handsfree headsets.

heh... I'll admit, the mic (which isn't on a boom; it's just a couple holes in the cups) of the Sennheiser Momentum is bad enough that people can't understand me

(also, incidentally, the reason I got a proper PC headset rather than using the meelecs over BT)

but with the Beoplay H8 and H9, the built-in mic is so good that I never have to repeat myself on calls :)

@allquixotic I tried a Skype call with the meelecs once.

somehow they managed to get the gain just right

Once.

@Bob oh yea, those are terrible too

kinda gave up halfway through after shouting for half the convo

@allquixotic depends how loudly you speak and how loud the environ is

Time for me to grow up :p

@Bob for PC, you can't really use native bluetooth for capture and playback because there's no support for A2DP playback simultaneous with mic capture

that's why I have a desk mic - Blue Yeti

I mean you could do it briefly for calls on Skype on your PC, but then your PC audio renders over HFP... which sounds at best like a low-quality mono SBC

@allquixotic I think that one's partially driver support, but I've not really looked into it.

Only tried for 10 mins before switching back to a proper wired headset

@Bob lol

Only mike on me is the one on my Piston IIIs. Not the best by a long shot but it's serviceable. Mother generally had no trouble hearing me on the phone.