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Bob
Bob
17:02
@BenN iirc explorer doesn't particulary like dirs ending in a dot
Ah, nice catch! That's probably it
the dot doesn't exist, thats just M$ adding a fullstop to the dialog
Bob
Bob
:/
shell extension shenanigans?
probably just shenanigans in general
i counted 6 separate and distinct CMS login areas for this particular site
I have a new hat "9" :)
17:11
dude the goatee suits you!
@Burgi: Why do you hate Microsoft?
@bwDraco i never said i did
It was implied by the "M$" :p
JK
its just faster to type than microsoft
lol
Well, M$ carries a negative connotation.
17:21
Appl€ is probably more approriate
Goog£e?
heh
i was trying to think of one for amazon
both of theirs are in swiss francs or zimbarbadian dollar
amaz(0tax)n
17:22
rolls off the keyboard easily that one
Amazo₦
what on earth is that character?
Amazo---n---
mhmmm
The Nigerian Naira
@djsmiley2k it has a double strike through
17:24
D:
===n===
:D
lol
i was trying the same thing
14 hours ago, by Michael Frank
@bwDraco WWJMGD?
what would jesus' mate god do?
What Would @JourneymanGeek Do?
o
i quite like my version
17:33
hometime
have a nice christmas!
 
2 hours later…
19:13
@Hennes bigotry is international! Bigots worldwide, unite! \o/
@Burgi That's an ugly filename!
So @Hennes any news from the job offer? Had the interview yet?
Grr. Reinstalling windows 7 in order to get windows updates to work.
@ThatBrazilianGuy Twice news.
I now have two confirmed offers. (One was confirmed 1h and 17 mins ago)
Both jobs are interesting.
Both jobs at at 10km from home (cycle distance).
Pay is the same (Philips grade VG45)
Both are too short (one is a 5 month project and one is a 6 month project)
I think the HightTechCampus/UltraSound one is going to win. It has a prelimenary start datye of 7th of January and lasts 6 months. The other starts in Feb (3 weeks later) and only lasts 5 months.
Both are for Philips Healthtech
And both offers came out of the blue.
I've been searching for 5 months. Found nothing.
Then within a week I get 2 offers
me <--- Happy
19:26
Congrats
Damn phones with unremovable batteries! "Oh, it froze! Just let me remove the battF%&K YOU PHONEMAKERS!!!"
3
20:04
Isn't that why you make sure that a phone has a replaceable battery before you buy?
(Now just crashes, also to replace the battery after about 4 years)
@Hennes is it worth saying 'Hi, I've had another offer come up and I'm concidering both, you fancy offering more dollar?'
@ThatBrazilianGuy suddently i realise how dangerous a bettery you cant
disconnect is
Nope. I could try that, but I am pretty sure both will be forced to precisely the same amount.
Same firm, different departments.
hmmm
kitten attack
2
Re battery: BTW not joking. It was something I did pay attention to when buying my mobile, Not replaceable -> not considered.
Which means apple phones all failed
you're out driving, it starts snowing and you end up in the middle of no where lost
you go to phone for help
blam
I don't need nessicarly to replace the battery myself
but i want a hard off switch
not a software controlled one which can crash
your on a small plane
some how the eletronics start getting interference from your phone
you go to turn it off
blam
(maybe they could launch it outta the window or something...)
20:11
@Hennes You need to look at the LG G5.
The battery swaps out through a bottom-loaded slot, and the bottom piece can be replaced with modules that provide added functionality.
I already got a samsung S5. It should be good for another 4-5 years
@Hennes You realize that most phones are not designed to last more than three years?
I tend to give mobile devices a three-year service life, after which replacement is seriously considered. Most people replace their phones after two years these days.
I think my average usage is closer to 5 years
i also rnu phones til they can run no more
My Nexus 9 is about 19 months old and while it still runs great, the performance is starting to feel a bit lacking.
May 27 '15 at 22:40, by DragonLord
Just got my Nexus 9, along with the official keyboard folio to go with it.
20:34
One thing to note about music on YouTube: When people say "listen in HD", it may not make sense as HD applies to the video stream, not the audio. However, YouTube does adjust audio quality based on the video quality. h3xed.com/web-and-internet/…
The best audio quality is obtained at 720p and higher, with 192 Kbps AAC. Dropping to 480p or 360p reduces the bitrate to 128 Kbps, resulting in a slight but noticeable reduction in sound quality for many people. At 240p, the audio bitrate further drops to 64 Kbps and is encoded in MP3; this results in significant and clearly audible loss of fidelity.
21:08
I evaluated the cost of running a server at home for large amounts of data, with a build plan similar to what I discussed many months ago. At $1700 for the hard drives alone (8x4 TB WD Red Pro in RAID 6, 24 TB usable), plus $700-$1200 for the motherboard, processor (Xeon E3 v5), and other parts, plus cost of electricity (about $13-15 a month at 100 W) means it is just not worth it compared to cloud storage.
21:19
that sounds like a rather overpowered server just for storage
also how much data you got o_O
and raid isn't a backup
Xeon processor E3-1240 v5 (4C/8T Skylake @ 3.5-3.9 GHz): $270.
16 GB (2x8 GB) ECC DDR4 memory: $140.
C236 motherboard: $200.
250 GB SSD (for system boot-up): $100.
SAS/SATA HBA (LSI SAS 9207-8i): $235.
8-bay hot-swap computer chassis: $120.
650W 80 PLUS Platinum power supply (EVGA SuperNOVA 650 P2): $120.
$1200 for all the other parts, not to mention the cost of replacing failed drives (I expect one or two drives to fail over three years' time).
CapEx of about $3000, plus OpEx of about $700-$1000 over three years.
Storing 20 TB of data in Backblaze B2 costs $100 a month, or $3600 over three years—and it takes much less work to maintain. For less data, the break-even time is even longer.
It's only a good idea if I need access to data quickly or constantly stream data from the server. Backblaze B2 charges $0.05 per GB of data downloaded.
For archival storage, a home NAS is not worth the time and expense.
$3700 TCO over three years (plus the need for manual maintenance) makes no sense for archival or backup storage.
Hence, absent media streaming or other frequent data access, a home NAS does not make sense from a TCO standpoint.
Besides, for a good portion of the time, it's likely there will be much less than 20 TB of data stored, which means that the cloud option will cost significantly less in practice than the $3600 over three years.
why so much memory unless you're running dedupe?
Caching and performance.
I've decided that a NAS makes no sense for backup/archival use only. Cloud storage is more resilient and costs less.
The intended use case is backup archiving of critical data like photos.
Media streaming has not been a significant use case for me and is not likely to arise in the future. Even if it does become necessary, I might as well just plug in an external hard drive into my router and it'll appear as a network share.
Extrapolating from these computations, I'd have to store at least 16-24 TB of data in order to have a shot at breaking even within three years. Cloud is the way to go.
21:54
Even at the lowest cost (5x Seagate Archive 8 TB drives in RAID 6, 24 TB usable), the drives will cost about $1100.
At least one more drive for replacement in the event of failure will need to be kept on hand.
Downgrade processor and RAM: about $150 saved.
Power cost will be a bit lower, too (probably -$200 over three years).
That's... still about $2500-$3000.
Again, with cloud storage, you only pay for what you use, so I suspect that real cost will be about one third to one half of the $3600 over three years, which assumes 20 TB of data from the start. In practice, usage will be a lot lower than this in the beginning and grows over time.
Hence, absent the need for quick access to data or very large amounts of data stored, cloud storage makes more sense.
There are other ways for me to quickly stream or otherwise consume the data if necessary that are a lot cheaper.
22:24
Even if I'm being conservative at $2000 for 20 TB of storage over three years, cloud still makes more sense. Again, you only pay for what you use with cloud services, so unless you have 20 TB of data from the start (which is definitely not going to be the case), a storage server will wind up costing more.
Nod
I have both, shrug
I'd have my storage at home anyway, but as some of it's important, that gets sync'd online
Bob
Bob
22:49
@bwDraco Your own link says this is wrong.
It hasn't been true since they moved to DASH.
Hmm...
Ah, okay. Misread the post.
So things have changed...
Bob
Bob
There's no particularly easy way to guess what you'll get.
You have to request the stream and see what it gives you.
@bwDraco And, as a bonus, you get bootloops!
@Bob You've had issues with your G5?
Bob
Bob
@bwDraco The G4 was rather notorious for it. There's similar complaints about the G5 popping up.
Last rumor I heard for the G4 was some kind of VRM issue.
@bwDraco You've completely ignored network/transfer costs.
1 hour ago, by bwDraco
It's only a good idea if I need access to data quickly or constantly stream data from the server. Backblaze B2 charges $0.05 per GB of data downloaded.
Bob
Bob
22:56
@bwDraco Not what the storage provider charges you. What your ISP charges.
IMO you've also vastly overestimated the cost of local storage.
I've considered this to be an invariant because my ISP does not impose data caps.
Bob
Bob
As you say, you don't really need live/streaming access. So any kind of always-on server doesn't make sense.
1 hour ago, by bwDraco
Even at the lowest cost (5x Seagate Archive 8 TB drives in RAID 6, 24 TB usable), the drives will cost about $1100.
Bob
Bob
Just attach more storage to any ol' desktop PC.
RAID on 8 TB drives is dumb.
Ultimately use-case dependent.
Bob
Bob
22:57
The rebuild time would be so incredibly long and cover so much data I wouldn't be surprised if you hit another two UREs and lost the whole array.
@bwDraco For comparison, at 12 Mbps up (fairly generous for a home connection) running 24/7, it would take you a whole half year to upload 20 TB.
8x 4 TB WD Red (not the Pro model) is still $1200.
Bob
Bob
@bwDraco I'm saying fewer drives, no RAID. Tape drive for backup if you're feeling fancy.
The resiliency would not meet requirements without RAID. Tape is too expensive for smaller amounts of data (LTO-6 drives are not cheap).
Bob
Bob
@bwDraco 20 TB is not small.
And LTO6 is overkill.
Do you realize how expensive a tape drive is?
Bob
Bob
23:02
LTO5 is decently priced.
An LTO-5 drive still costs $1000. LTO-4 doesn't have sufficient capacity.
Bob
Bob
$500.
So would cloud still make sense?
How much data would I need before I should consider migrating to a local storage solution?
Bob
Bob
Depends how much patience you have for half-year upload times.
@Bob It's done in batches.
Again, it's not 20 TB from the start.
Bob
Bob
23:06
Personally? I'd slap a few cheap external HDDs on and call it a day.
No offsite, but eh. Most of my bulk data isn't that important.
Besides, practically any LTO drive requires a SAS HBA.
Bob
Bob
23:17
@bwDraco Meh. $40-$50 for a used H310.
Ah well. I guess TCO is not vastly better in the cloud, but it does invalidate my NAS build plans, having found that it's not cost-effective for archival use except with extremely large amount of data.
Bob
Bob
@bwDraco There's always tradeoffs, and in this case it's probably mostly the network bandwidth and time required. I'm not saying you definitely shouldn't use cloud storage. I'm just objecting to your local storage cost analysis.
Mostly cause I think it's way overkill.
$600 for 3x 8 TB HDDs. $500-$550 for a (used) LTO-5 drive + SAS controller. $300 for ~24 GB worth of LTO-5 tapes.
You don't even need a separate computer/CPU/etc., assuming you have a decently modern desktop.
"cloud" primarily gets you some more redundancy, at the cost of depending on the company not collapsing and also the previously mentioned network transfer issues.
It's not cheaper than the (minimal) home setup, though. Not by a long shot.
In fact, if you're only doing bulk backups/archives that you won't access often, you could ditch the HDDs entirely and just double up on the tape storage.
(Of course, tapes themselves are kinda finicky to use...)
23:34
So, a starter set is about $650 for the drive, HBA, and four LTO-5 tapes (6 TB raw capacity).
6 TB is $30 a month on the B2.
Perhaps it's at this point where tape makes more sense.
I'm less likely to select a used tape drive or controller, though, which will dramatically increase cost.
Bob
Bob
@bwDraco Convenience also factors in - pure tape is rather inconvenient.
Using tape a a secondary backup to HDDs is more convenient but more expensive.
Of course, a single 8TB hard drive is less than $250, but is much less resilient than tape.
There isn't really anything that beats the sheer reliability of LTO Ultrium.
Cloud has the advantage of being offsite and highly resilient, but can be pricey over time.
It all comes down to use case.
For now, cloud is the best solution for me, but I will certainly reevaluate my options as storage needs grow.
HPE blog post on LTO reliability: tapetember.com/Articles/ArtMID/426/ArticleID/18/…
> ...it would take 130 tape drives writing data continually for one year to encounter an error that could not be fixed by LTO-7 ECC.
LTO-5 has a error rate of one bit in 10^17, not as impressive as the one in 10^19 that LTO-7 achieves, but that's still plenty reliable.

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