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00:00
@Bob That's the thing, when we import them we pay $USD or whatever, so it costs more to get them into the country, negating any benefit of exporting it again
Bob
Bob
@qwertyuiop prices still haven't adjusted yet so it's temporarily cheaper
Bob
Bob
otherwise, yea, I'd be looking at buying from the US
local has a markup of some 30+% I think
I've seen quite a few places adjust their prices already, but I guess the 1080 stock was all shipped in before the brexit vote
Bob
Bob
brexit: the day GBP died
00:01
So the Galaxy S4 charges at 5.5w with the screen on and 8.6w with the screen off, that's not too bad
Bob
Bob
or fell through the floor, whichever :\
@qwertyuiop that's about as good as the S7 does isn't it?
It's more annoying on the S7 which only does 6w with the screen on but 15w with the screen off
It's a bigger difference, and the S7 can eat more power with the screen on anyway
Bob
Bob
QC 2.0 doesn't increase the max charge rate so much as it makes it more consistent
@qwertyuiop 15 W? Really?
13
A: Cancel misclicked flags

Michael StumThis is now completed and (for now) enabled on meta.stackexchange.com and meta.stackoverflow.com. If there are no issues, it'll go live network-wide soon. Note that if you're a moderator (and thus your flags are authoritative), there's no retracting. Also, close flags get converted into close vo...

Retracting flags is soon to be a thing!
My S4 doesn't have QC at all
@Bob Yes
Bob
Bob
00:02
Oh yea I did see it hit 3 A (w/ Ampere app) on QC
@qwertyuiop Thought it did QC 1.0, even without the branding
Quick Charge 2.0 supports up to 18w. Mine shows about 2.8A going into the battery within Android itself, with a 9v/1.67A input
Bob
Bob
Technically S7 does "Adaptive Fast Charging"
You may be confusing QC 2.0 vs 3.0? 3.0 doesn't increase the max charge rate over QC 2.0 but makes it a bit more efficient. Both have 18w max.
Bob
Bob
@qwertyuiop Yea, might've been.
QC 1.0 was 5v 2.0A (10w max)
QC 2.0 is (up to) 12v/1.5A (18w) but the S7 only does 9v/1.67A (15w)
00:04
@qwertyuiop Again, the advantage is high voltage for stable power.
Bob
Bob
Yup. Can't remember if QC 1.0 had special signalling. I don't think it did.
Same as the S4 thing, step up until voltage drops too far.
I suspect it doesn't. QC2 and QC3 stop working if the data pins are blocked (my usb meter has optional block ports), but the S4 acts the same either way.
Then again I hadn't seen the S4 do >1.2A till now anyway so all my previous tests can be discarded >_>
Bob
Bob
lol
yea, 1.2 A is easy to hit on the S4
higher is finicky
@qwertyuiop, do you read me?
Wonder what the S5 does then... I never really paid attention
00:07
Please. I've changed since.
2 hours ago, by bwDraco
Sustained 3A @ 5V is hard to do without expensive premium cabling.
Yeah, just checked the S4 again. Whether or not the data pins are blocked, it still does 5V 1.7A for a few seconds then drops to 1.55-1.6A
Hey what do you guys think about this build: pcpartpicker.com/user/oldmud0/saved/8nKFf7
Bob
Bob
10
A: How do I change the units of measure in game?

Kaz WolfeThere is no way to change the game units. This is intended by Niantic, as Ingress uses the metric system as well. I would suggest getting used to the metric system.

@oldmud0 Nice build for the money but you should consider the GeForce GTX 1060 when it comes out. (It was just announced and will start from $250.)
Bob
Bob
> I would suggest getting used to the metric system.
lol
00:11
I have no problem with metric units.
Oh hey, my S5 draws 5v/1.7A with the screen on but only in small bursts cause the battery's at 97% already
I don't have $1000. Building a computer is surprisingly more cost-effective than a prebuilt one nowadays
I'm willing to use either system as appropriate. The problem is that most stuff isn't metric around here.
Bob
Bob
@bwDraco Your "expensive premium cabling" is literally any 24 AWG or higher cable.
Basically: not completely shit.
@oldmud0 Depends... pre-built ones are more likely to go on sale.
We're talking about 3A here, and you'd probably need 22 AWG.
Bob
Bob
00:13
@qwertyuiop Oh yea, they charge faster with a near-empty battery too, don't they.
@Bob For systems that cost less than $600 or so, pre-built is better.
@Bob Yeah. When battery <=5% on the S7 it draws 15w even with screen on
Soon as it hits 6% it drops to 6w.
OEMs can get economies of scale that a regular consumer can't take advantage of.
I'm just downloading CPU burn onto my S5 for fun. Ironically the most popular search completion after "CPU" is "cooler".
On the other hand, a self-built computer's price can fluctuate daily based on per-part deals
00:15
@qwertyuiop Root is the best solution for limiting CPU heat.
Weird. As soon as I start running CPU burn the current gets clamped to 1.2A
Root is the best solution for doing anything that's not candy crush or instagram
Ignorance is bliss, bless the sheeple!
There used to be a root/kernel hack to enable quick charging in places where it wasn't on, I wonder if that's still around for disabling this screen on power hack
> Quick Charge 1.0 was introduced in 2012 and it made use of a 5V/2A charger, which could charge a phone up to 40% faster than conventional 5V, 1A chargers. That boost accounts for a 10W max charging power.

Qualcomm Quick Charge 1.0 was available on phones such as the Samsung Galaxy S III, LG Nexus 4 and LG Optimus G, the Sony Xperia T and the Redmi2.
TIL...
> Samsung Fast Charge solution is no different than Qualcomm's Quick Charge 2.0. Samsung uses its own Exynos chipset for the Galaxy S6 and Galaxy S6 Edge so you'd reckon they didn't have the luxury of relying on Qualcomm's ready-made solution that comes with Snapdragon processors. Or did they?

After some research we found out that Qualcomm is actually offering their Quick Charge 2.0 technology to third-party OEMs royalty free. All they have to do is integrate the extra Power management integrated circuit into their designs.
Bob
Bob
00:17
@bwDraco 24 AWG is fine. Approx 106 Ohms per km gives some 0.3 V voltage drop over 1m.
If you wanted 2m you'd want 22 (or 20, which is more commonly found)
Or use QC 2.0 :-P
Bob
Bob
@oldmud0 Root is also the best way to disable NFC payments :(
That's not a feature I care about.
Google tried and was not able to meet security requirements.
@Bob apparently the 'local' nfc standard requires a specific sim card from a specific telco ._.
is iOS even fips compliant
00:19
Even my worst 2m+ cables with a 2.5m extension still manage 8v 1.66A with QC2 (13.3w), i.e. equivalent to 5v 2.7A still
It would require a lot more TrustZone code, which is very expensive to validate.
Bob
Bob
@qwertyuiop In 2012 the conventional charger did something like 400mA or 500mA, not 1A :P
0.3V drop is enough to prevent charging at full speed.
@Bob Eh, but chargers just kept going up and up on their own, 0.5A, 0.8A, 1.0A, 1.2A etc. The S2's charger was 0.9A or something.
Bob
Bob
@bwDraco Eh, you can argue semantics, but that is well within tolerance for most phones and chargers.
00:21
What makes the jump from 1.2A to 2.0A significant enough to warrant calling it Qualcomm Quick Charge? Only difference I can tell is QC 1.0 chargers deliver 5.3v+
I'd really want to chat with qwertyuiop. I've changed and I'm better behaved than I used to be.
Bob
Bob
You're never going to get 0 Ohm drop.
Most chargers err on the side of delivering slightly over 5 V, and phones should accept down to ~4.5 V.
@qwertyuiop Didn't QC 1.0 specify the whole stepping-up-slowly behaviour?
@Bob Not sure on that one
I know the USB battery charging specification specified up to 1.5A
And also specified a standard way to indicate you're a charging port (resistor between the data pins)
Bob
Bob
@oldmud0 Your new build: not going Skylake?
IIRC high capacity memory is cheaper with DDR4 too
welllllllllllllllllll
Bob
Bob
00:25
@qwertyuiop Did it? I thought it was 1 A. And the indication was the equivalent of a dead short.
Samsung phones limit current to 500mA when there isn't the resistor between the data pins.
@Bob It does mention "instead of shorting" somewhere in this document but I haven't got that far yet
I suspect some manufacturers used proprietary methods such as that prior to either using battery charging specification or QC 1.0
Bob
Bob
Oh it is 1.5 A
interesting
@oldmud0 wait a month and i can sell you that same basic computer for 1/2 that, together or apart :-)
Ah, a Charging downstream port (CDP) uses the resistor, a Dedicated charging port (DCP) which doesn't have data/USB host capability at all just shorts D+ to D-
Bob
Bob
ah
00:27
@qwer: It's okay.
I don't flag or otherwise moderate on emotion anymore.
I know Apple devices used a different identifier previously. Now chargers advertise "smart" charging ICs that autodetect apple vs. android devices and do whatever it takes to tell the phone it's a 2A charger
Bob
Bob
@qwertyuiop yea, most of my chargers to dhat
> Nowadays the iPhone expects a certain voltage on those two pins to decide how much current to absorb from the charger. Putting a 2.0 V voltage on both the pins the iPhone will absorb about 500 mA, while with 2.8 V on D- and 2.0 V on D+ it will absorb about 1000 mA.
Bob
Bob
> bwDraco
bwDraco
10:27
@qwer: It's okay.
I don't flag or otherwise moderate on emotion anymore.
@qwertyuiop It used to be a resistor on them? with specific value? or am I misremembering
@Bob That article is very old and possibly out of date by itself
Bob
Bob
00:30
@qwertyuiop I think they work by just trying different signalling methods and measuring current draw, then sticking with whichever gets highest :P
@Bob Lol, possibly
Just found my de-capped USB cable
luggable triple monitor setup
Bob
Bob
@qwertyuiop what, you ripped one apart?
00:32
@Bob Ages ago, yes, to supply a 5v router of mine off USB
Bob
Bob
lol
all mine take 12 V :(
same with the external HDDs
I have a bunch of multi-output USB chargers but noooo, need giant power boards and adapters everywhere
@JourneymanGeek luggable, the guy needed to find a hardware store that has aluminum :0
@Psycogeek luggable cause three monitors is heavy
Bob
Bob
Sounds like what @allquixotic wanted
On this QC 3.0 portable charger the resistance on D+/D- is all over the place... jumps from 8 ohm to >200k to -0.3(!)
Bob
Bob
00:34
@qwertyuiop wtf
measurement error or black hole?
@qwertyuiop QC3.0 is dynamic. Voltage is dynamically adjusted to best meet the device's demands.
I suspect it's outputting some signalling or capacitance
good design, bad parts to assemble it, the holes alone would be highly distracting
Also negative resistance would be like white elephant
blah, I wonder where my phone is ;p
00:36
So this charging-port-simulator-port has a resistance of about 2-3 megaohms across the data pins
Bob
Bob
@bwDraco pretty sure voltage is only adjusted on the request of the device
As far as I know, the data ports aren't supposed to be floating.
Bob
Bob
you never ever ever ever feed more (or less) voltage to anything that's not explicitly requesting/expecting it
well, unless you're designing the etherkiller
Of course. It's negotiated.
The non-QC ports on my "intelligent" multi-port wall charger read about 8 ohms and the Galaxy S4/S5 chargers read 1 ohm, which is basically a direct short
00:38
It's done in 200 mV steps. The goal is to ensure maximum charge speed at all times.
Anywhere from 3.6V to 20V with an 18W limit.
I'm really curious to know what my laptop does, but I'm too lazy to find it.
Bob
Bob
@qwertyuiop probably 500/900mA unless it has a charging port? :P
It's got a data enabled charge port that does 1.0A+ when the laptop's in standby but only 500mA when it's on and a device is connected
Bob
Bob
ah
If a device is connected while it's on and the device is connected to the data block port on my meter it draws ~1A too
So the port delivers 1A+ whatever its state, but I'm curious whether it uses the short method or resistance method, or some IC because it has to transfer data as well
Funny thing is I have a microUSB cable here marked "Charge only" which doesn't have the data pins connected at all and aren't shorted at the connector either, so my phones only charge at 500mA. So my "charge only" cable also happens to be the slowest and worst cable to use for charging...
00:44
hm
avast bought AVG
(not that most of us care ;p)
Bob
Bob
that's not good
Isn't it?
hmmm
I want to become a porn director and film a shibari scene using cat5 cable instead of rope.... if this is too nsfw to talk about in this group, let me know and I'll delete it
2
> The TPS2511 is a USB dedicated charging port (DCP) controller and current limiting power switch. An auto-detect feature monitors USB data line voltage, and automatically provides the correct electrical signatures on the data lines to charge compliant devices among the following dedicated charging schemes:

- Divider DCP, required to apply 2.7 V and 2.0 V on the D+ and D– lines respectively or 2.0 V and 2.7 V on the D+ and D– lines respectively
- BC1.2 DCP, required to short the D+ Line to the D– Line
Bob
Bob
@electronbeam you have my curiosity :P
00:48
@electronbeam How about we just report you for being intentionally disruptive or provocative?
Bob
Bob
but, yea, probably not an entirely approprite topic
@MichaelFrank you know what, go for it dude, that's your prerogative.
Heh, my Anker 0.5m cable is only my second best 0.5m cable :-P
Huh... I never needed to ignore someone before.
But I have to say, I haven't really seen you around, and I'm a regular round these parts, so I don't know if that's necessarily the appropriate response.
00:50
He's a regular too
Bob
Bob
@MichaelFrank that's... a rather extreme response
you feeling alright today? o.O
Yea, I'm really just amusing myself.
Bob
Bob
...
At the expense of others in this chat/community.. woo.
Anyway, I'll be around later - @allquixotic, hit me up on telegram! I know you check this but not that!
00:53
I wonder what'd happen if I connected these cables to something like a Roku or a Chromecast, something that draws a lot of power and doesn't throttle back if the voltage dips.
I want to be able to work with the Cavil source code :(
Or even an RPi
Alright, let's learn JS!
Apparently 5v 2A is the recommended minimum for an RPi
Bob
Bob
@electronbeam He doesn't check pings here either, apparently :P
00:54
@electronbeam deeeeeeedeedee
: ability to hide a chat message just for oneself
I don't want to do your porn
2
Bob
Bob
Or maybe he does now. O_O
What do I need to know to start working on Cavil's code? (@allquixotic, @Bob)
Huh... no wonder I'm grumpy. It's 1pm, and I'm super hungry. D:
00:55
Dang it's 2am and I shouldn't be here
Bob
Bob
*shrug*
It's not like we have a list of things that need to be done
It could be an interesting exercise
Give me Cavil's code so I can make a nega-cavil
I'd like to help fix bugs and implement new features.
Is the canonical codebase of Cavil available somewhere on GitHub or something?
00:57
@electronbeam github.com/allquixotic/SO-ChatBot (cc @BenN)
Aha
Greetings!
Hi!
Hello.
Bob
Bob
00:58
'lo
I'll be moving my laptop to an air-conditioned room so will be AFK for a bit.
Can't wait to start coding again.
All rightie.
So um. My friend agreed to lend me the money to buy my computer parts in exchange for me giving him my old graphics card. So basically the PC project is back on tracks, although with a graphics card this time. I was wondering if someone felt line advising me.
Bob
Bob
o.O
I can't even remember where we left off last time
or if I was even here
I think you were there for part of it
What's your current shopping list like?
Bob
Bob
01:04
something about having a memory of a goldfish, but I can't even remember that :P
Lemme bring that up
(Ha.)
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Did you receive your brick yet?
The list I last showed you
Then a friend of mine proposed the following changes, saying the cooler was better and the memory more compatible
@Bob not yet
Bob
Bob
I can't speak for the cooler, but it does have a lower CFM (airflow rate)
Memory more compatible is a lie! Lie!
There's really no such thing as "more compatible" memory - either it's compatible and works, or it isn't and doesn't...
01:09
I'm also wondering whether I need to change my case. At the repair shop they said a short circuit between the case and the motherboard caused the death of the latter. But they couldn't say for what reason it happened. I wouldn't want to burn my new stuff eight away.
Opened NetBeans.
So basically the two memory kinds are equivalent?
We're planning to move soon so building a new PC is not yet viable.
Bob
Bob
@Ariane For your use? Should be, more or less.
@Ariane Make sure all standoffs are installed.
01:10
There are uses where it matters?
@bwDraco what's a standoff?
Bob
Bob
The DDR4-2400 one would be a bit faster if your CPU & mobo supported it, or if you were to overclock. But even then the difference is minor.
@Ariane the little pegs the motherboard screws onto.
@Ariane A separator between the motherboard and case.
Bob
Bob
@Ariane Depends if you're interested in squeezing every single last drop of performance out.
But, intensive benchmarks aside, I'd be very surprised if you could notice a difference.
Apart from one or the other not working at all.
@Ariane Most consumer workloads do not benefit greatly from higher memory bandwidth (unless you're using integrated graphics; see superuser.com/questions/789816/…)
01:11
@Bob you mean overclocking? I'm probably too lazy for that
Wait so one of those won't work on my motherboard?
Bob
Bob
@Ariane Even without overclocking, there might be minor differences (latencies, etc.) but you'd never notice.
@Ariane They both should work.
That should is not very reassuring
If it says DDR4 it will work.
Listen to Bob.
Bob knows things.
Memory latency is actually more important than memory bandwidth. You'll probably want lower CAS timings (but even then, the benefit is still rather limited).
Bob
Bob
@Ariane Heh, I've seen some really weird hardware interactions. But it's not worth worrying over.
01:13
Those are the three numbers that sometimes appear after the frequency?
Bob
Bob
Anyway, your CPU only supports up to DDR4-2133 (without overclocking) so if you get the higher-specced DDR4-2400 it'll just run at the lower speed anyway.
@Ariane Three or four numbers (e.g. 14-14-14-34).
Bob
Bob
up to you if you want to pay extra for the brand, etc
G.SKILL is typically my first choice for memory.
Bob
Bob
functionally, the two should be more or less identical
01:15
Understood. So I should go for whatever as long as it's 2133?
I tend to go with whatever's cheapest kingston.
2
Bob
Bob
@Ariane as long as it's 2133 or above, yea, but it doesn't really matter and shouldn't make a difference
heck, even if you went for slower you'd still probably not notice
Understood.
Bob
Bob
just make sure it's DDR4 and for desktops (full-size DIMM) :P
if you want, you can get the ones with a heat spreader but generally RAM doesn't run hot enough to be an issue (and heat spreaders can make them too big to fit on some small boards)
It's really only if you're overclocking memory that you would need a heat spreader.
01:18
Now, on the subject of the pins on my motherboard... It's been years but I really don't think I had leftover parts back when I built the computer. I take it they're all installed? What worries me is that the short circuit happened after years of event-less use.
Bob
Bob
I still have my doubts over the "short circuit"
how exactly would they identify that after the fact?
Like, I changed nothing and suddenly it short-circuits? Did the motherboard reach out its hand to touch the burnt spot on the case?
@Ariane There was a burnt spot?
Sounds like maybe something fell inside?
Well there's a burnt spot on the inside of the case. I guess they figured that's where the electricity hit.
Bob
Bob
@bwDraco CAS is in terms of clock, so higher clock would have higher CAS latencies for exactly the same real (wallclock) time
01:21
@JourneymanGeek Sense of humor. No wonder I come across as so cold...
Considering they dismantled it and tested every part they would've probably found a fallen object.
Bob
Bob
@Ariane UHM
burnt spot?!
photos please?
I'd replace the board.
@bwDraco You ever seen Baby Steps?
I am not going to trust any PCB with evidence of this sort of damage.
Bob
Bob
01:22
@bwDraco no shit, considering it isn't, y'know, working. not so much a matter of trust here
'electricity hit' 0_0
@Ariane PCs are low voltage/low current internally
so... 0_0
@JourneymanGeek POW RIGHT IN THE KISSER
Bob
Bob
^ yea, that
I'm wondering just how exactly...
that shouldn't happen
Gimme half an hour. I'll dismantle the thing and show you
Bob
Bob
01:23
I suppose if one of the CPU supply traces somehow caught..????
Yea, perhaps you dropped an arc welder inside and didn't notice? Your PC should never arc enough to scorch the case...
I assure you though it still smells a bit and there were sparks and smoke
@Bob I've always considered ram heat speaders to be somewhat akin to spoilers or go faster stripes.
Bob
Bob
@Ariane makes me wonder if a capacitor exploded
@MichaelFrank 12VDC can produce huge sparks under the right circumstances. I've played around with old PSUs and can attest to this.
Bob
Bob
01:24
it's always a capacitor (except when it's not)
Oh, then it probably just needs a smoke refill... Might be hard to find though. ;)
that feels plausible
Brb, getting the screwdrivers and opening up the thing
@bwDraco and current.
Bob
Bob
@bwDraco can, yea, but it's not going to bridge any substantial gap
nor is it particularly fast
nor would it produce a giant scorch mark..?
I wonder if the PSU failed and delivered 240 V (120 V)
01:25
@MichaelFrank unless uts magic smoke in the wiring harness. www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/smoke.htm
@Bob that feels more likely
I guess it depends on where the scorch mark is though... I mean we're all assuming that's under the mobo right?
especially if there's a explicit path to ground.
They said every part was working A1 except the motherboard, including psu
or the current sparked upwards
Bob
Bob
if the PSU failed and delivered mains power to the mobo, I could see it arcing and scorching around the mobo PSU plug
01:26
The case is ground, by virtue of the PSU ground contacting the case. (The case of the PSU is almost always connected to earth ground.)
It's behind the mobo they said
@bwDraco except if there's a short.
Bob
Bob
well... a photo would be nice
Yes
in which case the mobo is at high potential.
Bob
Bob
01:26
better yet, a photo with mobo on, a photo with mobo off, and a photo of back of mobo in same orientation
@Ariane take a pic of the bottom of the mobo as well around the area over the scorch mark, if you can.
OK I'll try to get you that
Bob
Bob
I really don't think the case itself was the cause, but this whole situation smells weird(ly of smoke)
Give me half an hour and I'll be back with pictures
Anything else before I go?
Bob
Bob
@Ariane this is some parts curiosity and some parts attempting remote analysis :P
or you could replace the case and be done with it?
01:29
Understood
Well I'm also curious
I'm off on a pc photo safari. I'll be back in a bit
Bob
Bob
good luck!
@Ariane watch out for lions.
01:45
Rebooting because Norton Security needs it (it's very rare for me to see NS generate this prompt).
@Bob I have not had issues with Norton Security in a very long time.
which software is more enterprise-y and convoluted, LabVIEW, MATLAB, or AutoCAD?
I've been using Norton since 2010 and will continue to subscribe for the foreseeable future.
@oldmud0 I'd say AutoCAD.
Different applications, though.
My dad's always been inclined toward norton since like 2004
but the new dell prebuilts have mcafee trashware installed
01:51
@oldmud0 apples and oranges durians.
dell used to preinstall norton
as did lenovo
@oldmud0 Hopefully, they'll get better under Intel ownership.
> Cannot move the items. The operation cannot be performed because the message has been changed.
WTF outlook
No, mcafee won't improve under Intel. Intel is more concerned with hardware-level security
@oldmud0 Intel's looking for ways to stop malware at the hardware level, yes. The problem is poor adoption and concerns about abuse (will ISVs use this technology to restrict legitimate uses?)
I'm actually in favor of Secure Boot. I just wish it was easier to configure.
01:55
if anything, they'll shut down mcafee and include Intel Advanced VS+ Elite technology or whatever in their new processors that "interfaces with UEFI to install new malware definitions even when the computer is turned off" or whatever
I'm back!
I made you an album. It's uploading now.
for me? thank you
jk
It's a lot less impressive than I expected. The "burnt mark" could probably be erased with some polishing.
Could be dust?
Definitely not, clearly something blew up and shot out sparks
But something tiny.
There it is!
01:58
Oh
its your motherboard. not the case
I THINK that's a VRM
look at your rich computer parts
borg nano probes
can you read off what it says on the chip?
..... that 'rippling' on the motherboard

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