Root Access

qasdfdsaq

19:00

Michael Kjörling

@CanadianLuke Well, for a start: System was working fine before I redid the HDD power cabling an hour ago. Now the motherboard is-alive LED turns on when I turn on the PSU with the switch on the back, but I get no response whatsoever when I press the ATX power button. Not even a fan turning. Tried without the HDDs plugged in to power, tried unplugging and replugging the mains cord, checked to make sure all cabling is secure, tried CMOS reset. Running out of ideas and hoping it isn't a fried PSU...:(

Canadian Luke

Have you tried shorting the pins on the mother board where the power connector goes?

Michael Kjörling

The is-alive LED seems to take quite long (approximately 10-15 seconds, I haven't timed it) to go out after I cut power with the PSU power switch on the back.

The system is (or was, at least) configured to turn on automatically after a "power loss". Which so far has always happened when I turn the power back on at the back after having turned it off for system maintenance.

Canadian Luke

There is an example of one. Use a screw driver, and short the two pins that the power switch should connect to on the motherboard

Michael Kjörling

@CanadianLuke So no, but I don't see how that should have been needed at least to begin with. I'd have to dig something out that I can use to short those pins...

allquixotic

19:03

@MichaelKjörling that's normal

qasdfdsaq

You should try turning it on using...

Canadian Luke

Screw driver?

qasdfdsaq

... what Canadian Luke said

Turning it off and back on again.

Canadian Luke

@qasdfdsaq If that doesn't work, we'll short the power supply pins :-P

Michael Kjörling

Not the P24 pins I'd hope ;)

Canadian Luke

19:04

Michael Kjörling

(It's actually 20+4 to the motherboard...)

Canadian Luke

If you want the 20+4 pins, short the green one with any black wire for a second

allquixotic

are you sure you didn't accidentally drop a screw between the motherboard and the case? if you're shorting to the case, that would do it

Canadian Luke

Paperclip would be fine; very low power through that pin, you won't shock yourself

Michael Kjörling

No screws involved here, so if that's it, it's been rattling around in the case for like forever. Not likely.

allquixotic

19:05

I'm trying to short the pins on the motherboard where the power connector goes

Yes, Clippy, please help

qasdfdsaq

I had an argument with Ramhound about that once. I wonder if Clippy can find it.

Michael Kjörling

Well, paperclip it is then ;) brb (or not ;))

allquixotic

Canadian Luke

@MichaelKjörling Check the pin out on the motherboard itself; it's usually at the very bottom of the motherboard (if the CPU is up near the top)

Michael Kjörling

Already checked the pin output, also double-checked with plug just now. No dice shorting those.

Exact same result as before: nada.

qasdfdsaq

19:09

Short the ATX power pin to ground

Canadian Luke

Then I'd pull out everything attached to the motherboard, EXCEPT your memory (RAM), CPU (and its heat sink), and power. Try turning it on, and see if you get one short beep

allquixotic

double check that you don't have anything messed up like molex connectors plugged into each other

qasdfdsaq

If that works, your motherboard is fried. If that doesn't work, your PSU is fried.

Michael Kjörling

(Paperclip shows <1ohm. Just double-checked that one.)

@qasdfdsaq I suppose I should unplug the 20+4 before doing that?

Canadian Luke

Nope

Leave it plugged in

Michael Kjörling

19:13

OK. What's the current through there? Signal only?

IOW do I need to take any precautions or can I just short the two (making sure I'm shorting the right ones, obviously)?

qasdfdsaq

@MichaelKjörling Only if it makes it easier for you

Canadian Luke

Short the right ones

qasdfdsaq

@MichaelKjörling Yep

Michael Kjörling

Okay, so which one...?

PS_ON# to COM?

Canadian Luke

Yes

qasdfdsaq

19:17

Hmm, Seagate shipping a 10TB helium drive and an 8TB NAS drive

My 4TB drives feel awful small all of a sudden

Canadian Luke

Nice...

Michael Kjörling

Mine too, since I can't access anything on them :P

Canadian Luke

I may need to upgrade the drives in my server soon... Only 800GB left :(

Michael Kjörling

Seems the cable colors are reversed, but I've got one green and a bunch of black. So shorting green to black should be safe?

Canadian Luke

Correct

But verify the colours match with the pic above

Michael Kjörling

19:19

It's like the plug is upside-down compared to the image earlier, I've got green at 4th row from the bottom whereas that one has green at 4th row from the top.

It's the only green one.

Canadian Luke

The plug is likely reversed, should be OK

Michael Kjörling

This is a bit odd. Shorted green and black. Multimeter indicates 50 mA current, but no effect on the PC.

So what gives...?

(It was stable at 50 mA. Maybe 49-51 but didn't vary more than that. Didn't check voltage.)

qasdfdsaq

Your PSU is fuxored or something connected to it is causing it to fault

Michael Kjörling

Effing lovely. And on a Thursday evening, obviously.

Canadian Luke

Yup... Got a spare power supply to borrow?

Michael Kjörling

19:25

Not that I know of. :(

Canadian Luke

Well, that sucks...

Try that first, should be cheaper than a new motherboard

qasdfdsaq

(Although some power supplies won't power on with green and black shorted without a load)

amazon.co.uk/DIGIFLEX-Power-Supply-Tester-Diagnose-Black/dp/…

Michael Kjörling

@qasdfdsaq Well, the load is still plugged in... all I did was bypass the ATX power switch, no?

(Pro tip: Amazon refuses to sell electronics to me.)

qasdfdsaq

Yeah but you want to test it with everything disconnected in case a load is causing a fault

@MichaelKjörling Are you on a terrorist watchlist?

Michael Kjörling

@qasdfdsaq No, I'm in Sweden.

qasdfdsaq

19:27

Are you sure you're not on a terrorist watchlist without knowing it?

Michael Kjörling

If I was, and I told you, I'd have to delete the evidence.

qasdfdsaq

Is that why your hard drives are "failing"?

Michael Kjörling

@qasdfdsaq ??

qasdfdsaq

@MichaelKjörling Let me put this bluntly. Are you a terrorist?

Michael Kjörling

@qasdfdsaq No. I'm in Sweden. (Notice the subtle difference from before?)

qasdfdsaq

19:30

What's Sweden got to do with anything?

Sweden's got terrorists, like every other country

Michael Kjörling

And I sure hope my HDDs aren't failing.

qasdfdsaq

Oh wait that was Canadian Luke

Goddammit I fail at peopleing

Michael Kjörling

Amazon's shipping policies. They don't ship electronics out of the country, apparently. So if I had been in Germany or UK, I could have ordered electronics, but not in Sweden.

qasdfdsaq

So much for EU free trade laws...

allquixotic

"free"

Michael Kjörling

19:31

Well, some would say that the EU doesn't force companies to sell internationally... is that free?

But on a serious note, what now?

qasdfdsaq

Find somewhere in Sweden that sells a PSU tester...

allquixotic

or you can always do the classic "swaperoo" - if you have a compatible PSU or motherboard laying around, you can snag that and replace the existing PSU or motherboard to see if it's that

(replacing only one component at a time of course)

Michael Kjörling

Well, unfortunately I don't just happen to have a spare known-good PSU or motherboard laying around collecting dust, so...

qasdfdsaq

2 mins ago, by qasdfdsaq

Find somewhere in Sweden that sells a PSU tester...

Michael Kjörling

(I think there's an echo in here...)

qasdfdsaq

19:35

20 secs ago, by Michael Kjörling

(I think there's an echo in here...)

allquixotic

or, find a store with a very good return policy (including 100% refund for open box products), and chuck a brand new PSU in there purchased on your own dime, and see if it fixes it; if not, return it and get your money back

if it doesn't fix it then you can probably deduce it's the mobo, and buy a new one of those from the same store

qasdfdsaq

@allquixotic EU requires 100% refunds on anything not bought in person by law anyway

allquixotic

@qasdfdsaq oh, ok.

qasdfdsaq

14 days, even if opened, as long as you take "reasonable care" of the product

allquixotic

I live in a country that's far more pro-business/anti-consumer, where it's perfectly legal to say "Sorry, no returns"

the only legal way to be guaranteed to get your money back from stores without a return policy is to tell the shipper (whoever physically delivers the package to your house) that you refuse the package

if you refuse the package they have no choice by law but to give you your money back

Michael Kjörling

19:37

I'm wondering if maybe the easiest thing to do at this point is to remove the PSU, take it with me to work tomorrow, and have one of the IT guys run a quick test on it. That way we can easily test it with and without load, and see if it turns on.

If the PSU is dead, I should be able to stop by on my way home and pick up a new one. If not, well... one down, I guess.

allquixotic

@MichaelKjörling if your place of business is fine with appropriating work equipment (and time) on personal projects, sure

Michael Kjörling

I haven't heard any complaints about a five minute project during the lunch break.

And if someone does somehow complain... well, then I can take the PSU with me to the store and ask them to test it and see if it works.

qasdfdsaq

peenuts

allquixotic

you're lucky to feel confident in doing that; businesses here will almost always tell you that whatever equipment you bring in to be "tested" is bad, so they can sell you a new one

they'll flat-out lie to you

qasdfdsaq

@allquixotic All hail capitalism

Michael Kjörling

19:42

The part I still don't understand is the motherboard LED turning on, and a bit of current through the PS_ON# pin, but nothing else working.

@allquixotic I can always ask it to do it in such a way that I can see it. "I'm not letting you touch MY stuff" ;)

allquixotic

we also often have to pay exorbitant fees on the order of $80 USD just to get a diagnosis like that

Michael Kjörling

I guess it varies with type of company, too.

allquixotic

which is more than it costs to buy a new PSU tester

qasdfdsaq

@MichaelKjörling Your +5VSB is working

Michael Kjörling

@qasdfdsaq But why would that and seemingly nothing else be working?

qasdfdsaq

19:44

Because 5VSB is generated by a separate part of the PSU

Michael Kjörling

With my luck I messed up something in the cabling, but even molex plugs are pretty hard to plug in the wrong way...

allquixotic

PSUs are non-trivial electronic equipment; it's entirely possible for there to be a "partial failure', it doesn't have to be binary 100% fine or 100% broken

Michael Kjörling

Welllllllll... if all else fails, at least I've got a fresh backup.

allquixotic

it's fairly unlikely that your data is lost just by switching around some HDD cables

even if you broke some HDD electronics, you could still probably read the platters

Michael Kjörling

I probably wouldn't bother paying for data recovery services of at least 4 HDDs and 2 SSDs, though, when I can restore that backup and lose just some 12 hours worth of data.

allquixotic

19:46

heh

Michael Kjörling

Not that I really think the storage is bad, either. But that would sort of be a worst case. Hardware is easily replacable.

qasdfdsaq

I would love to pay for data recovery of my SSD but nobody can do it

Your face is easily replaceable

Michael Kjörling

I've learned my lesson about backups, so have automated nightly ones. Of the full system.

allquixotic

@qasdfdsaq be nice

qasdfdsaq

What?

Michael Kjörling

19:48

Well, I'm going to remove the PSU and put the cover back on so the dogs don't stick their noses in there...

qasdfdsaq

Wanna see me be nice? Buy me a burfer.

burger*

No burger, no nice.

Michael Kjörling

20:08

Well, this certainly wasn't the sort of evening I had planned. Thanks, people. I hope it's just a botched PSU.

qasdfdsaq

And you've tried unplugging it and testing it in isolation right?

Michael Kjörling

No. It's completely unplugged now, though; anything simple I can do at this point to test it without a load? (It's got a fan, but I honestly don't know if it's temperature controlled or not...)

qasdfdsaq

Only shorting green to ground

You could also measure the 5VSB voltage

Min'es dropped to like, 4v sometimes

Michael Kjörling

And if shorting green to ground works (as in, it turns on), what should I be able to observe with no load hooked up?

qasdfdsaq

Fans, noise, fire...

Or voltage on the +12v rail

Michael Kjörling

20:15

Hm. Especially that last might be somewhat tricky.

qasdfdsaq

Well you have a multimeter, no?

Michael Kjörling

I do.

qasdfdsaq

So why would it be difficult?

Michael Kjörling

Because I don't have four hands. Hard to manually short two pins while measuring the voltage across two others.

qasdfdsaq

Paperclip/duct tape

Michael Kjörling

20:18

I'll just hold off until tomorrow. It's almost 21:20 already anyway. See if we have a proper ATX PSU tester (or another pair of hands) at work which would make it just a quick check to see if the PSU works. If it doesn't, I can probably install a new PSU tomorrow evening if I'm not too picky about which one, or Monday if I really need to have something in particular...

It's just a tad bit annoying that this didn't happen on a Monday. Would have made getting replacement parts much quicker...

qasdfdsaq

Not sure how monday would have made picking one up on the way home from work any quicker?

Michael Kjörling

It would certainly be quicker if after picking up a new PSU it'd turn out to not be (just) the PSU after all.

bwDraco

Want Iris Pro in your desktop? newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117553

(Unlocked for overclocking, too!)

It took this long for this part to be available.

qasdfdsaq

It's been available nearly a year...

Well, it was announced last spring/summer

Granted, Broadwell-DT was nearly a year late

bwDraco

It's been consistently out of stock. It took a very long time for Intel to sort out issues with its 14nm process.

qasdfdsaq

20:24

That's why it was announced year late, though I wasn't aware there were supply problems after the announcement

Well, we've had it in stock in the UK for a few months at least

bwDraco

Intel really did not want to release any socketed desktop parts with Iris Pro. The i7-5775C and kin were really type H (high-performance mobile / AIO) parts scaled up for desktop use. There was never a type S or K Broadwell part.

qasdfdsaq

The whole Broadwell generation was a half-arsed pile of scaled up mobile parts

bwDraco

20:45

Now, oddly enough, there will be HEDT Broadwell-E chips, and one of them is a 10C/20T monster (i7-6950X Extreme Edition). It's expected to cost some $1500, though. (The current top-of-the-line HEDT part, i7-5960X, has an MSRP of $1059.)

yesterday, by bwDraco

(10C/20T Broadwell-E, 3.0 GHz + Turbo, 25MB L3 cache)

These chips will work in existing X99 boards.

qasdfdsaq

21:10

Meh, HEDT parts have been a rip-off since X58

Broadwell-E only exists because it's just a knock-off of Broadwell-EP

Michael Frank

stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/75919657/…

One Tonne of fake carrots, actually marijuana wrapped in orange tape.

qasdfdsaq

Australians...

nc4pk

how old would a wireless card need to be to not support WPA2?

qasdfdsaq

21:25

15 years

nc4pk

:/ thanks

Michael Frank

@nc4pk My PSP doesn't, and I bought that in 2007.

nc4pk

trying to get an old HP nc6220 (2004) on my WLAN

it's got a 2915ABG and isn't playing nice with my MikroTik

qasdfdsaq

Huh specs say its Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG

nc4pk

that's not what lshw is reporting back

(Xubuntu 14.04)

qasdfdsaq

21:31

Meh, I just did a quick google.

nc4pk

it was a surplus machine from work so it's possible they upgraded the card

qasdfdsaq

Maybe. Either way, 2200BG and generation should support WPA2. Though lots of people find it unreliable

nc4pk

it's possible I've misconfigured something in RouterOS (MikroTik's awesome builtin firmware)

yet it works with literally everything else I own

!!facepalm

ChatBot John Cavil

nc4pk

at some point i configured it N-only

that would explain it -_-

qasdfdsaq

21:36

!!facepalm

ChatBot John Cavil

qasdfdsaq

Double double facepalm.

Journeyman Geek

21:55

@Bob weekend is mine. Monday is not.

And no one minds if I handle a halp mod ping fast right?

Bob

22:22

@JourneymanGeek o.O

Hennes

22:54

And when a double facepalm is not enough:

Looks at the clock. Jeeps. Been browsing ebay for a good 2 hours.

And BTW. 10Gbit cards are getting cheap.

Eur 18-ish per NIC

qasdfdsaq

@Hennes o_0

I'm still having truoble findin them for under £50

And have trouble finding useful ones for less than £100

Hennes

6 Wattt per use though. Which is significant enough when you want a low power home build NAX

ebay.com/itm/…

If I understand it correctly that one works with SPF+ cables. (
About EUR 20 per cable).
And the NIC is US $18.78 PLUS SHIPPING AND IMPORT

Cable:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SFP-H10GB-CU3M-CISCO-SFF-TWINAX-COPPER-CABLE-3M-PASSIVE-/281742729519?hash=item41992ce12f

nc4pk

cable almost as expensive as the NIC lolol

Hennes

All linked cards seems to be with low profile brackets

But the picture on this one seems different. (Mail sent to ask if it is low profile or full sized)

ebay.nl/itm/…

Mind you. Older cards. PCI-e v2 and x8

And 10Gbit switching is expensive. So you might end up with only two devices crosslinked, or use a ring based on dual port cards.

qasdfdsaq

Eh, 6w is tiny

Last year they were bragging about getting them below 20-40w as a technical breakthrough

oldmud0

23:04

Ugh I don't want to wait another 2 hours for windows to revert updates...

And take up 40GB in tracing files 😕

Why does it take so long anyway? Is it because it has to rebuild the dependency tree or something like that?

qasdfdsaq

2

Canadian Luke

@qasdfdsaq Who's that? And awesome image to open in my browser at work... Lol

Michael Frank

@CanadianLuke I guess I'm lucky I get an "image not found", seeing as the HR department sit right behind me? :P

Canadian Luke

@MichaelFrank Well, she looks pretty... Awesome...

qasdfdsaq

23:26

It's Becky.

Bob

wtf is CaaS

qasdfdsaq

!!google CaaS

ChatBot John Cavil

@qasdfdsaq * Welcome to CAAS — CAAS ; CAAS: Summary for China Automotive Systems, Inc.- Yahoo! Finance ; Solutions: CaaS | Interactive Intelligence

qasdfdsaq

I got NHSGGC : What is CAAS? as my first result :-(

> CAAS is an acronym for the following:
Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore
Communication as a service
Compiler as a service
Cognitive Analytic Application Services
Common Aviation Architecture System, a common avionics package currently being rolled out into various United States Military aircraft.
Centre for Academic and Administrative Studies
Commission on Accreditation of Ambulance Services
Commerce as a Service
Containers as a Service
Crimeware as a Service
Cloud as a Service, an IT offering that runs a Cloud Management Platform off-premises and deploys Virtual Servers to your data c…

nc4pk

Communications as a Service eyeroll

qasdfdsaq

23:35

> **Crimeware as a Service **

Bob

Great, you seem to have identified the buzzword/term. Now wtf does it mean?

qasdfdsaq

LMAO

Bob

> Enterprise level VoIP, VPNs, PBX and Unified Communications ... blah blah blah

qasdfdsaq

Cloud computing

Cloud computing, also known as 'on-demand computing', is a kind of Internet-based computing, where shared resources, data and information are provided to computers and other devices on-demand. It is a model for enabling ubiquitous, on-demand access to a shared pool of configurable computing resources. Cloud computing and storage solutions provide users and enterprises with various capabilities to store and process their data in third-party data centers. It relies on sharing of resources to achieve coherence and economies of scale, similar to a utility (like the electricity grid) over a network...

> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_as_a_service

Just redirects to Cloud Computing

Bob

@qasdfdsaq I know. I've tried that -_-

this is the only place I could find with a (very unsatisfying) definition

qasdfdsaq

23:36

Cloud comms aren't really anything new

nc4pk

msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb896003.aspx

qasdfdsaq

These days I only offer SaaS

Stupidity as a Service

Anonymous

CloudtoButt extension man

ChatBot John Cavil

23:58

I have just been restarted! This happens daily automatically, or when my owner restarts me. Ready for commands.

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