Root Access

ChatBot John Cavil

00:00

I have just been restarted! This happens daily automatically, or when my owner restarts me. Ready for commands.

Journeyman Geek

Which version I have

qasdfdsaq

That doesn't change the fact Windows won't let you tell it what version you have ...

Journeyman Geek

and using the media download tool on the system typically suggests the correct version

oldmud0

maybe you shouldn't have listened to W32.Microsoft.GWX

Journeyman Geek

IIRC

qasdfdsaq

00:01

The media download tool just downloads one disk with all versions

Journeyman Geek

but as I said, I've updated half a dozen machines with no issues so far ._.

qasdfdsaq

Yeah but you haven't had to update home to pro.

That's what seems to be the impossibility

Journeyman Geek

ahh no

qasdfdsaq

I think I'll just do the brute-force/old fashioned method

Install Windows 7, upgrade to 10 Pro with a "clean upgrade" if that option is available

Wait no, can't do that.

Cause there's no Windows 7 support for this hardware. Blargh

Grrrr.

Guess I should just go back to using pirated software if Microsoft is making it bloody hard to use legit copies

Journeyman Geek

lol

you don't need all your hardware supported tho

just enough to bootstrap windows 10

qasdfdsaq

00:07

Well at the very least, Intel have no drivers for any components for anything other than Windows 10

That means no driver for the SATA controller.

So you can't even see the disk. That's kinda a showstopper right there.

Journeyman Geek

0_0

that would be

qasdfdsaq

Gonna try install Win 7 in a VM and following that SU answer's suggestion from there

But first, Taylor Swift needs a badly MSPaint'ed christmas hat.

At least I've figured out what was causing my broken/fuzzy scaling in Windows 10

Windows 10's screen resolution settings are imaginary.

Journeyman Geek

0_0

qasdfdsaq

Yeah you heard me.

Journeyman Geek

I did. Does not mean I entirely understand what you mean

qasdfdsaq

00:17

Setting a different resolution doesn't change the output resolution, it still uses the full native resolution of the display. Windows just renders internally at a lower resolution and uses a really shitty software scaler to resize it to native resolution.

Journeyman Geek

ahh

qasdfdsaq

However setting the resolution directly in the graphics driver does change the actual resolution, until you rotate the screen and Windows resets it again.

Journeyman Geek

Kinda makes sense outside the "shitty scaler software"

oldmud0

@qasdfdsaq uhhhh no, you kinda forgot the GPU

qasdfdsaq

I suspect the primary purpose of it is to support that swanky rotating animation you have

@oldmud0 Uhh no, I didn't forgot the GPU

oldmud0

00:20

@qasdfdsaq sooo why do certain monitor resolutions not work for certain monitors if Windows uses a scaler with the same real resolution every time?

qasdfdsaq

Because it's specific to Windows 10 on laptop displays

Journeyman Geek

flamebait comment. You shouldn't be using a non native resolution anyway,

oldmud0

wow that sucks

qasdfdsaq

@JourneymanGeek Hardly, using a non-native resolution is far better on my machine

oldmud0

that's not even right, why does m$ do this to us

qasdfdsaq

00:22

Firstly, you're not relying on high-DPI rescaling, so everything's the correct size and consistently so, secondly, you're saving power.

Journeyman Geek

"saving power" - now you're just messing with me.

qasdfdsaq

I guess you've not read the numerous reviews that show rendering higher resolutions causes more battery drain huh?

Cause it's been shown to be the case on laptops, tablets, and phones.

And frankly, why the hell wouldn't rendering 50% more pixels take more power?

Journeyman Geek

oh, laptops.

qasdfdsaq

I've been talking about my new laptop the entire time ._.

Journeyman Geek

I'm not awake yet. ;p

qasdfdsaq

00:25

Funny enough Intel provide Windows 8.1 desktop drivers for Skylake but not mobile.

@oldmud0 Like I say, I think it's to support "smooth" display resizing

When you rotate a laptop/tablet display in Windows 10 you get a smooth animation rather like iOS or Android 4+

oldmud0

@qasdfdsaq m$ couldn't do that even if they wanted to, apple patented that along with the rounded rectangle

qasdfdsaq

Under Windows 8 the screen just goes blank for a second as the graphics driver changes resolution and reinitialises. Under Windows 7 it could take 2-3 seconds of blank screen.

What I don't get is why Windows 10 also software rescales it to native resolution, rather than just keeping a software rotated reduced-resolution viewport

oldmud0

maybe they could have just made another version of WDDM instead of having to make weird workarounds

qasdfdsaq

(Incidentally, debugging the driver behaviour in Windows 10 vs. Windows 8 is how I figured it out, after about 30 hours of going "WTF why is this sharp in Windows 8.1 and fuzzy as hell in 10")

oldmud0

in the future they'll take away the ability to change the resolution

nah, you'll see

qasdfdsaq

00:29

Lol.

oldmud0

they'll say "naw naw you'll never need to do that..."

qasdfdsaq

I really want to like Windows 10, there's so many things to like about it

But they've also broken, hidden, and taken away so many other things, blargh.

oldmud0

"access system32? yeah let's also block that, nobody needs to see that crap"

qasdfdsaq

F8 boot menu ;)

oldmud0

"command prompt? wtf what do you think this is, windows server? powershell, with forced admin"

qasdfdsaq

00:30

Mind you, Windows 10 allows manufacturers to force secure boot and not allowing the user to ever turn it off.

Whereas with Windows 8.1, it was mandatory to have an option to turn it off.

oldmud0

Well there's Hyper-V for Windows now, that could make a difference

qasdfdsaq

On the plus side, Windows 10 auto-installs all the drivers for my laptop, including the manufacturer/OEM proprietary bloatware.

oldmud0

@qasdfdsaq On the minus side, if your drivers were lucky enough to get messed up, you can't ever stop Windows from uninstalling them.

qasdfdsaq

Yeah, that... The manufacturer-specific driver actually blocks me from installing updated drivers from Intel's website too.

So a bug they fixed in a recent release of the graphics driver? Nuh-uh. Can't have that.

Have to play all my games with big black borders or at native resolution at a lovely cinematic 20 frames per second

oldmud0

Goshdarn it they even removed Minesweeper

What killjoys they are

qasdfdsaq

00:35

Didn't they say you can buy it now from the Windows store?

oldmud0

Yeah

qasdfdsaq

They removed it, so you can pay more for it. Obvs.

oldmud0

Instead you get mahjong with achievements and dlc

qasdfdsaq

Though I wonder how hard it'd be just to copy the .exe from an older version of Windows

Or hell, just run a damn VM.

oldmud0

minesweeper.info/downloads/WinmineXP.html

!!shrug

ChatBot John Cavil

00:37

@oldmud0 ¯_(ツ)_/¯

qasdfdsaq

I might end up having to run a VM to play Rollercoaster Tycoon (1 & 2)

@oldmud0 Hah awesome

At least they supplied this thing with a decent BIOS

All the options are there, including hardware virtualisation. No obnoxious restrictions or lockdowns.

oldmud0

I've never tried hyper-v, has anyone?

Mainly because win7 doesn't have hyper-v

qasdfdsaq

Not me, I've used other virtualisators for years

oldmud0

I've associated vmware with $1000

So I've stayed away from vmware

Because nobody wants to go near $1000

qasdfdsaq

I got my copy of VMWare on an academic discount, was about $150

Also used Virtualbox, Xenserver, and KVM.

Mind you, Windows 7's XP Mode was based on a streamlined version of Hyper-V

Hah I could run Windows 10, then bung Windows 7 in a VM, and then use the XP mode license in W7 to run a nested VM of XP

Then run a MS-DOS VM in Windows XP >_>

VM-Ception!

...or not

P.S. can anyone see Taylor's new hat?

oldmud0

00:52

hahahhhahahhh

where is vmware for DOS

does it have HIMEM included

qasdfdsaq

I'm pretty sure VMWare 8 runs DOS just fine

oldmud0

no, vmware with DOS as host machine

qasdfdsaq

Oh

Er...

Journeyman Geek

newp

tho I suspect bochs or qemu might have a dos port

hm. no

!!no

ChatBot John Cavil

Journeyman Geek

01:04

You can't run a hypervisor in dos

!!yes

ChatBot John Cavil

Journeyman Geek

I can see becky's hat.

qasdfdsaq

Yay :)

Journeyman Geek

failuremag.com/feature/article/…

oldmud0

no it's called dos-v

and it runs on your toaster

Journeyman Geek

01:07

via hardware.slashdot.org/story/15/12/13/0022213/…

@oldmud0 my toaster is a piece of ceramic coated steel.

oldmud0

you can emulate potatoes, toasters, and microwaves under a complete dos environment

Journeyman Geek

> Perhaps this explains why a small but distinctive minority of people are now embracing decidedly old-fashioned technologies" like vinyl records, 35mm cameras, and the typewriter, the latter a strong "symbol of resistance against the over-digitization of our lives," as it was replaced by the personal computer.

I'm torn. Are these hipsters or luddites?

qasdfdsaq

Hipsters

Journeyman Geek

...

> Did you write “The Typewriter Revolution” on a typewriter?
In part, but it’s too complex and required too much online research and communication for it to be practical to do it all on a typewriter.

oldmud0

No, they are transcendentalists

Journeyman Geek

01:12

whaaaaat?

A book about typewriters... WRITTEN ON EVIL DIGITAL MACHINES?

@oldmud0 instructions unclear, resurrected skynet.

oldmud0

woo my question has 20+ 7-

people hate me and my question but it doesn't matter!!

Journeyman Geek

I'm thinking of closing it actually

Its opinion based ._.

annnnd.....

Sorry!

It really is tho

qasdfdsaq

Your face is opinion based -_-

oldmud0

this chat room is opinion based

qasdfdsaq

That's your opinion.

oldmud0

01:23

ohhhhh that's right you're mod

your close vote is final

cuz yu gud person

hold on

wait why'd you put it on hold

qasdfdsaq

LOL

oldmud0

just CLOSE IT

and DELETE IT

qasdfdsaq

So it's not Windows 7 doesn't have the SATA driver but it doesn't have the USB driver to read its own install disk when it boots from USB

oldmud0

AND THROW IT IN THE TRASH WITH ALL MY REP

Journeyman Geek

on hold = close ;p

oldmud0

01:24

starts rapping

Journeyman Geek

Oh my.

allquixotic

msn.com/en-us/foodanddrink/restaurantsandnews/…

So a town with 20,000 people in it and a bakeries-per-capita of 4 would have 80,000 bakeries?

Journeyman Geek

Also, someone seems to have linked an arbitrary file on a FTP server that's on his desktop

0_0

a bakery in every bakery parking lot?

oldmud0

sounds like somebody needs to reinstall windows

qasdfdsaq

Course I can't load the USB drivers from the USB stick cause it can't read from the USB stick...

Journeyman Geek

01:26

There is something wrong there.

qasdfdsaq

Have to embed it in the boot image

Journeyman Geek

I think per capita means something loike per 1000 people.

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek not according to wikipedia and the dictionary

Journeyman Geek

Unless you quite literally have more bakeries than people

and they move from bakery to bakery

oldmud0

@qasdfdsaq ethernet

qasdfdsaq

01:31

@oldmud0 And how am I supposed to get the ethernet driver into Windows Setup?

oldmud0

oh so you don't have any drivers at all? rip computer

on a serious note, mass storage should be detected without drivers

qasdfdsaq

Not on USB 3 under Win 7

oldmud0

it shouldn't need to install special drivers, just use generic?

qasdfdsaq

It's a well known issue Win 7 does not have native USB 3 support

oldmud0

wtf

no cd drive in computer...?

because it's one of the new ones

qasdfdsaq

01:33

Who's going to have a CD drive in a 2015 tablet...

oldmud0

tablet, even worse...

qasdfdsaq

Tablet/laptop convertible

Meh, let's see if the USB 2 port works

oldmud0

put some drivers in your install media

qasdfdsaq

9 mins ago, by qasdfdsaq

Course I can't load the USB drivers from the USB stick cause it can't read from the USB stick...

oldmud0

unless windows hates to copy everything to ram..

I know that..

qasdfdsaq

01:36

So put the driver on the install media that Windows can't access without the driver that's on the install media...

oldmud0

but what about the essential drivers

Bob

@qasdfdsaq ah, it can't just detect it as EHCI? :/

qasdfdsaq

@Bob No, cause it's XHCI-only

oldmud0

winpe has to copy the essential drivers somehow, otherwise it couldn't boot

qasdfdsaq

I have a USB 2 port but I dunno if that's just a USB3 port wired as a 2.0+charger or an actual 2.0 controller.

@oldmud0 Yeah I'm trying to embed the drivers in the winpe but dism is crapping itself

Bob

01:37

@qasdfdsaq the firmware doesn't have an option?

qasdfdsaq

@Bob Nope

Bob

I think some desktop firmware lets you choose

qasdfdsaq

It's a laptop that only (officially) supports W10

oldmud0

Better off installing ubuntu tablet edition or whatever canonical is spewing out these days

Bob

Eww

qasdfdsaq

01:38

Ermm, yeah, except Windows 10 is the only OS that supports the CPU's power management

Bob

@qasdfdsaq would you be able to mount the drive elsewhere and install?

qasdfdsaq

@Bob Yeah but a big disadvantage of this machine is taking the drive out is a total PITA

oldmud0

Wasn't there a PDA from the 90s that had IDE

Bob

Sounds less painful than messing with pre-boot drivers :S

qasdfdsaq

Also no GbE and terrible wireless so it'll take an hour to just write a pre-installed image to it over network

@Bob Not once you've seen the layers of duct tape holding the drive in place -_-

oldmud0

01:41

@qasdfdsaq is it even SSD?

qasdfdsaq

Yes

Bob

Duct tape? O.o I see then...

qasdfdsaq

@Bob It has a 5mm 2.5" slot

I have a 7mm SSD...

oldmud0

I had a mini black hole drive but I lost it one day

qasdfdsaq

So I had to remove the SSD's case and just tape the PCB in place

oldmud0

01:42

It said it had 75 petabytes, and every time I defragged windows would BSOD

Bob

Can't say I've seen 5mm but that sounds ridiculously thin

oldmud0

guess the universe didn't make good enough drivers

qasdfdsaq

And to think the only reason I want to install W7 is to get a damn W10 key

Bob

It wouldn't let you enter one directly?

qasdfdsaq

Nope

Bob

01:43

Can you install with a generic key and activate after?

qasdfdsaq

It won't accept a W7 ultimate key on W10 home

Bob

Why not win10 pro?

qasdfdsaq

Because the installer doesn't give you a choice

Bob

...wut

qasdfdsaq

Laptop came with home, so I guess it's just pulling the license embedded in the BIOS

Bob

01:45

I think the media creation tool forces you to choose

qasdfdsaq

Nope

Bob

I was trying to create a multi-edition installer a couple weeks ago

qasdfdsaq

Bob

Unless they changed it for 1511...

...odd. Where are you creating that?

qasdfdsaq

To install Win 10...

Bob

01:47

I did it on my win7 pro machine

Had more options. Was through the website, not gwx

qasdfdsaq

I don't have a Win 7 pro machine.

I have a Win 7 ultimate license I'm no longer using though

And I'm doing it on my Win 8.1 Pro machine.

Bob

What do you have?

Oh

I don't know then :/

qasdfdsaq

Them messing it up with 1511 wouldn't be surprising

Since they pulled it and un-pulled it with little explanation

Bob

I can try to upload the correct iso later, if you want, but I'm not home right now

qasdfdsaq

Nah it's cool, I'll figure it out somehow

Hmm, the charger/USB 2.0 port is still on a XHCI controller

Oh hey, Intel has a Win 7 creator utinility

> The Windows 7 USB 3.0 Creator Utility helps to update a Windows 7 installation image to include USB 3.0 drivers.

Looks like it uses Windows' own DISM utility though

Oh hey it managed to get past the bit that got stuck when I used the manual process

ekaj

02:01

anyone here using onenote on win10?

qasdfdsaq

I tried it for a few seconds

Yay it worked!

ekaj

I had onenote.. and it installed a 2nd version which I don't like as much

qasdfdsaq

Never mind the 15-step manual process, the Intel auto-creator utility worked first time

Lol now Windows 7 complains it can't install onto GPT disks.

@ekaj What installed a second version?

ekaj

win 10 upgrade

qasdfdsaq

Mmkay.

I assume you had office Onenote or something installed first?

ekaj

02:09

365.. I'm not complaining, I just thought it was odd

qasdfdsaq

Meh, that pretty much describes the majority of Windows 10

oldmud0

03:01

People would love Premiere Elements were it not for the horrible bugs

Massive slowdown on scrolling the timeline... analyzer takes up 100% RAM...

it's as if they took the premiere pro source and deliberately screwed it up

crickets chirping

qasdfdsaq

03:21

tumbleweed

Psycogeek

I lost my (10+ year) customisations on my browser, now i feel nakid and stupid using it .

oldmud0

@Psycogeek backups?

Psycogeek

I was so used to it being a specific way and colored, and laid out.

I had a backup ( a zip of the browser seperate) but it did not return it, and for the life of me (10+ years later) i dont know how the custom was even done.

It uses special icons, but the cons are nowhere to be found ?? What the heck had i done :-)

oldmud0

I have an assortment of icons and I remember I downloaded them from donationcoder for dr. windows

Psycogeek

Each of my computers (even the phone) ends up with icons made by me and scrounged,, soo I (think ahead) do have them all organised in one place. But those ones arent there, I swaer i hacked the skin, but they are not in the skin.

Journeyman Geek

03:34

lol

I typically can get all my systems identical in about 10 minutes.

oldmud0

that's because you use mac

with windows sauce on the side

Psycogeek

I typically have my computer customised how i wanted in 2 years :-)

Journeyman Geek

Naw

Windows, mostly stock

But I have my systems built fairly sensibly.

Psycogeek

Then microsoft comes along and decides that i dont need it anymore

Journeyman Geek

That said, I am so going to miss oneliner when they kill it off eventually

qasdfdsaq

03:37

oneliner?

Journeyman Geek

hm, actually there's another piece of software I run that needs some tweaking

@qasdfdsaq addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/prospector-oneLiner

Last updated 4 years ago.

qasdfdsaq

Oh nice

I thought Firefox already did something like that

Journeyman Geek

I started using it with a shitty 1366x768 screen

lol

Its done by mozilla

But its a prospector project they abandoned

qasdfdsaq

My "laptop" still has a 1280x800

Journeyman Geek

my previous desktop screen was too

qasdfdsaq

03:40

1152x864 was my first display, an overclocked CRT

Journeyman Geek

(Of course, I'm going to be running 2x 4K/27+ inches in a few days, so screen real estate on my desktop is hardly at a premium)

lol

My first display was CGA ;p

qasdfdsaq

2x4K

That's a lot of pixels of porn

Journeyman Geek

yup

Also, I'm likely to end up writing the first (tho not quite professional level) review of the monitor I'm getting

Psycogeek

now just add 3D :-)

Journeyman Geek

Naw

I don't see the point of 3d

High dpi/pixel pitch is actually quite nice for text

Psycogeek

03:43

I would see the point , the day it is done 100% correctally, not 45% + headache.

qasdfdsaq

It's already 100% done correctly in Metro apps

Journeyman Geek

I can get 4K video (soon?), upscaling works acceptably. Most browsers do 4K.

qasdfdsaq

But one of the biggest advantages of Windows is also going to mean that'll never happen

Journeyman Geek

My two problem apps have workarounds (licecap) or got patched (synergy)

qasdfdsaq

Chrome -_-

Journeyman Geek

03:46

chrome has issues on 4k?

qasdfdsaq

Chrome is completely non-DPI aware

Journeyman Geek

ow

qasdfdsaq

It used to be epically fucked, but now is at least... not broken

Journeyman Geek

I think no one in google has a 4k screen ;p

Tho, they fixed the g+ bug that Linus bitched about

qasdfdsaq

Well the Chromebook Pixel suggests someone knows about high-DPI displays

Psycogeek

03:50

superuser.com/questions/876559/… someone answered my bounty. It ssems to suffer from 2nd language problems, and I am a programmer not a user problems. At least a human will get the bounty, but "what really matters , to how crappy things look, and how much effort is done to have it look like crap" isnt there in simple language.

One could imagine from what he said, it could get scaled twice, I would not be surprised when they indicated that apps then moved to a different monitor would be different.

Stupid wording like is it vector (re-drawn) scaled, or re-interpolated (page scaled) , why fonts would not all be vector scaled, and why any simple drawing elements wouldnt be vector scaled.

IMO if the program is not going to be scaled properly, and has gui elements that are flexable, then (like) have 2 sizes and be done with it.

so microsoft makes a bloody mess, then developers (working with MS) make a bloody mess, and the whole thing really has not been worked out. BUT they can make another OS that again adds more crap, but doent solve the orginal problems.

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