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00:01
I really should stop slacking and get back to work. >_<"
Two years without writing nearly anything and then suddenly I have to write a dozen 300~450 word blogs posts in a week.
I don't think I want to see a post button so soon
0_0
I really need to finish up my current backup related blog posts ;p
You could be a nice dog and write a blog post for me. There's only one missing.
I'd pay you in dog cookies and walks.
Oh, it's in Portuguese, obviously
That could be a problem. I'm fluent in english, tamil, tailwags, schnauzer and westie.
00:07
"The top reasons to join our community are:

- We have cookies
- SQUIRREL!
- ajbvhsfkkvbz dshf fvrsd v\d\hvrp vdhrd vprv
somebody voted down 33 of my answers. That is a new record
holy shit
It does revert, right? Automatic anti serial downvote protection
It should get reverted
I need to investigate this
@Ramhound Why might they have been grumpy? Did they leave any comments around the same time (15:58)?
00:10
@tealhill - does it matter?
@Ramhound it's not crucial to know, but I am curious to understand the mental workings of those who do silly things like this.
Somebody submited a bad answer
Careful those who try to understand silly persons, for they might in the proccess become silly themselves.
I called them out on it, they preceede to downvote my anser, acuse me of voting down there answer because they posted one, and I assume was th person who did it
@Ramhound: I'm about to go off to work
I've let the other mods know. The downvotes should be reversed in at most 36 hours
If its serial downvoting, then we'll proceed from there
@tealhill sadly ramhound seems to rub some people badly ;p
We try to help where we can but sometimes... blah, the reputation is worse than the user really is :)
@Ramhound: If you'd be so kind, if this hasn't been handled in a day or two, (and/or the votes get invalidated) could you ping me?
00:16
yes of course
I just find it funny
he spent that amount of time
People are just.. petty sometimes ;p
What is funny is I provided feedback, honest feedback, I was nice about it. All that happen is, I was told my feedback didn't apply, and i should downvote my "competition" which is ridiculous.
Bob
Bob
00:36
Oh god these jokers
Samsung 9500mAh battery pack: $119
@Bob Real OEM batteries — not fake "OEM" batteries which might really just be low-quality knockoffs with fancy knockoff hologram stickers — are expensive. What is this a battery pack for?
And if they're fresh batteries — not new old stock, which have probably degraded in storage — they might cost even more.
01:00
@Ramhound Oh. :( When people do serial downvoting for things like that, it has a chilling effect on the entire site. It's not good.
Even if I was rude to the person, attacked on a personal level, does not give that user the right to downvoted 33 of my answers.
There are users who honestly believe I have nothing better to do then be negative towards their answers. They don't even consider their answers might actually need to be improved. Telling somebody who indicates they have taken the time to make sure they have removed what they don't need, to use program where their disk space has gone, is not really helpful.
@Ramhound In general, nobody should game the system by serial downvoting.
It also does not answer the question "how do I use my external drive, to place windows updates on it, to update my machine"
I've never been the victim of serial downvoting, but if I was, I might be either frustrated, or angry, or both.
If someone is unhappy with an answer of yours, they should either downvote (once), or flag, or complain on meta. That's about all.
Bob
Bob
01:18
@tealhill Standard USB pack. Genuine Xiaomi or Romoss would cost $25 local with same capacity.
With the same cells, mind.
@Bob may I ask what country you're in?
Bob
Bob
And as far as degrading in storage - which doesn't really happen to Li-ion - these have probably been sitting on display longer than the entire production/delivery chain for Xiaomi
@Bob of course Li-Ion degrade in storage.
Bob
Bob
@tealhill Aus.
@Bob Depends on how you store it.
Bob
Bob
01:20
They do not degrade, provided the voltage does not drop below safe limits.
Li-ion batteries are typically shipped at a 40-50% state of charge.
Bob
Bob
That's many months, years even.
@DragonLord Even in perfect storage conditions, they still degrade. But much more slowly.
At normal temperatures and as long as they are not fully charged or discharged, the rate of degradation is minimal and generally not an issue.
Bob
Bob
They don't have a particularly high self-discharge either.
01:23
3.6-3.7V per cell is best.
Less than 5% loss of capacity per year under normal conditions when kept this way.
Bob
Bob
Let me put it another way: given a two-year-old unused cell and a fresh-out-of-the-factory, you'd be hard pressed to measure a difference.
@Bob As long as temperatures are not excessive.
@DragonLord Agreed. buchmann.ca/chap10-page6.asp says: "Avoid purchasing spare Li-ion batteries for later use. Observe manufacturing date when purchasing. Do not buy old stock, even if sold at clearance prices." But it seems to me that this advice is excessively conservative for many use cases.
If I own a laptop, and the laptop model was only released three years ago, it's probably fine to buy a new-old-stock battery for it.
Such a battery can't be much more than three years old. And, as you said, it loses less than 5% of capacity per year when properly stored by the manufacturer under proper conditions.
@Bob Though, if you're buying a rechargeable battery pack which is designed to charge cellphones, it could be rather older than three years old. Check the copyright date on the packaging to get a rough idea of how old the pack might be.
Bob
Bob
@tealhill: Xiaomi packs have incredible turnover rates. It's difficult to find an old one.
I'm just remarking on Samsung's outrageous pricing.
@Bob Xiaomi does indeed seem to be charging much, much less than Samsung. But you should compare Samsung prices to the prices of another top-tier manufacturer.
Bob
Bob
01:35
@tealhill Xiaomi is top-tier as far as design goes.
Heck, they even use Samsung (or LG, or Lishen, or ATL - all very good) cells ($7 for two at retail).
@Bob comScore report that, in June 2015, the top five smartphone vendors in the US were Apple (44%), Samsung (28%), LG (8%), Motorola (5%), and HTC (3%). Xiaomi didn't even make the chart. I haven't looked for Australian data.
@Bob Xiaomi devices are far more popular in other countries than in the US.
Bob
Bob
@tealhill I'm not talking brand recognition.
I live in Canada, but Xiaomi isn't especially a highly-popular brand here either.
@Bob I won't dispute that they're a top-tier designer. (I don't know enough that I can debate such things.)
Bob
Bob
At this point there have been enough teardowns and tests to establish that the Xiaomi packs are quite well designed.
But I'm saying, don't compare their prices with the prices of a device with a more-recognizable brand name on it.
Bob
Bob
01:42
They operate mostly by online sales.
@tealhill and I'm saying I don't give two hoots how big a brand name is if the hardware is crap or horrifically more expensive.
If a Samsung device (properly used, and not charged overnight with the owner sleeping) burns a Canadian's house down, they might be able to sue.
If a Xiaomi device (properly used, and not charged overnight with the owner sleeping) burns a Canadian's house down, they might not be able to sue.
Bob
Bob
The brand name does not justify over 4x the price.
I do pay extra for good-brand NiMH cells, such as Duracell or Energizer or President's Choice. But I probably would not pay 4x extra.
Anyway, I don't carry a battery pack for recharging cellphones. I carry a tiny charger (made by a big brand name) and a USB cable. :)
Bob
Bob
@tealhill the cells are quite literally the same (brand) you'd find in a typical smartphone (Samsung, LG, Lishen [used by Apple]), etc.
The controller chip is TI
The design is simple and has been torn down and analysed to death.
All fair enough.
Bob
Bob
01:49
The build quality has been consistent.
I don't dispute any of this.
I'm saying compare Samsung prices with LG or Motorola prices, not with Xiaomi prices.
Bob
Bob
And I'm saying that means jack.
It's like you're comparing the prices of an entry-level BMW sedan with the price of a Hyundai Genesis sedan.
Bob
Bob
If the product is identical, even superior, in functionality and quality, a stagnating brand name means nothing.
The BMW sedan will cost more than the Hyundai Genesis sedan. What more do you get? Maybe only a better brand name. Maybe more. I don't know enough about cars to say for sure.
Bob
Bob
01:51
I've seen big brand names with absolutely atrocious quality control and designs.
Agreed. I'm not sure that it's always wise to buy from a top-tier brand name.
All I'm saying is that, when comparing prices, you shouldn't compare BMW with Hyundai.
Bob
Bob
@tealhill the relative complexity of a car and a small electronics device is humongous.
And much harder to judge as a third party
@Bob ok, granted.
@Bob Still possible to judge though.
Bob
Bob
Not nearly to the same extent
@Bob in the US, Consumer Reports magazine judges car reliability by surveying thousands of car owners every year.
Bob
Bob
01:54
It'll take an experienced engineer maybe a day to piece together the battery pack.
@Bob Consumer Reports tend to ask about failure rates and what not.
Bob
Bob
You could throw a whole team at a car and still not find out minor metallurgy differences that result in higher failure rates three years later
@Bob Consumer Reports are good at what they do. They don't give a car model a "Recommended" checkmark unless they're pretty sure it'll be reliable.
I bet they probably don't give a "Recommended" checkmark to a new car model, ever.
I bet they wait some years.
Bob
Bob
@tealhill See, there's the difference.
@Bob I once built a battery pack in a cave, from from a box of scraps
Bob
Bob
02:00
With a car you might find out how good it is years down the track.
With this kind of device, you can tell exactly how it works, and how well it works with a day of analysis.
@Paul They have spare electronics parts lying around in caves, among the stalagmites and stalactites? :)
Bob
Bob
You can also every easily make objective, qualitative comparisons to its competitors.
@Bob OK, granted.
Bob
Bob
The only thing you can't really, easily, be sure of is the quality control.
You'd need to wait a bit for that, and it depends on the sample size you have.
But the design itself? Easy.
@Bob Agreed.
Bob
Bob
02:02
And often how well the first piece is put together can be indicative of QC overall. (sloppy work is obvious)
@Bob Also agreed.
Bob
Bob
It gets more complex, obviously, with something like a motherboard.
Those can have tiny niggling bugs that remain undiscovered for years.
But that seems to occur equally for big brand names as small ones, so... :\
My main point here is: the Samsung pack is grossly overpriced. It certainly cost them at most 20% of that price to manufacture it, probably less - I'd guess 5% or 10%.
Yes, they need their profits, but a 90+% markup is ridiculous.
@tealhill (it was an Iron Man quote)
Bob
Bob
Moreso when you consider competitors appearing and yet the price remains the same.
@Bob If you want to show that Samsung are overpriced, compare with LG, not with Xiaomi.
Bob
Bob
02:05
@tealhill I'm showing that they are overpriced for an equivalent design and quality.
I'll also point out the high failure rates with Samsung refrigerators (yes, different division) and televisions.
At this point, they're largely kept in the game by their name only.
Not by innovation. Not by quality.
@Bob But one has a much bigger brand backing it, so that you can more easily start lawsuits, or file Better Business Bureau complaints, if you wish. (If Better Business Bureau exist in Australia.)
Bob
Bob
And I say this as someone who's been using Samsung phones for 3+ years.
I use a Samsung phone and like it. It has flaws, but is overall very good.
Bob
Bob
@tealhill Alternatively, you're more free to be ignored, rebuffed and beaten down by the company.
They have the resources to drag most cases down for years.
@Bob interesting point.
Bob
Bob
02:08
They can also easily ignore you if something non-life-threatening goes wrong: there's so many customers that losing one doesn't hurt them at all.
Losing thousands doesn't hurt them.
@Bob Samsung are bent on ditching their core Note customers and replacing them with iphone users. Their profits slide and they seem to want to just kick them down the hill
Bob
Bob
@tealhill I only mention that so you don't think I'm particularly biased against them for no reason.
@Bob One vocal customer can make a difference to a brand's reputation.
Bob
Bob
I only brought up Samsung because that's the one I saw in the store today.
It could've been any brand and I would've called that price ridiculous.
@tealhill Assuming that people care (@allquixotic would call this a "reality distortion field" :P)
And lemme tell you, there are many vocal ex-customers of Samsung.
They never get mainstream media attention.
Why would mainstream media care if person X was ignored by Samsung? (or Microsoft or Google or w/e)
Tech media might pick it up, but even then that's a relative minority of their customers who'll ever see it and an even smaller minority who'll care.
@tealhill Also, I'll note that by Australian Consumer Law the retailer is responsible.
@Bob Comcast is probably a virtual monopoly in some places. You can't switch away.
Bob
Bob
02:13
As long as you go with a local retailer, it doesn't matter where it's sourced from.
Samsung is not a monopoly.
Bob
Bob
@tealhill Hey, you brought up the Comcast case. But I'm saying that there are many known issues with Samsung - known if you care to look them up.
Most people don't care.
It's never reported widely enough for most people to see, let alone care about it.
Because Comcast might have no competition in some places, that's why the mainstream media might report on Comcast failures.
02:58
blah. Its turning into one of those (confusing) mornings.
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek server blow up?
I've got a ticket that involves 2 sites, and maybe 2 different companies
Bob
Bob
ouch
In some cases its useful to know what internal department someone is in to analyse a ticket. That's broken.
 
4 hours later…
07:53
@Bob btw, I ultimately opted to replace the whole "execute external applications" module in our code with one that uses child_process.spawn and now everything works. Yay
08:16
@Bob A lot of big companies roll along on their name. I'm just glad it's so easy for anyone to do their research if they want to now.
08:36
@Firee Hi
09:07
(I've never seen anyone called Firee here before)
09:31
Hi Prasanna
09:50
It's really fun when you're navigating the W10 advanced boot menu and all of a sudden your mouse does its random double-click thing and activates the "refresh from system copy" option.
Fortunately, A) that menu is interactive and B) this computer does not have a system copy to refresh from
10:44
@JourneymanGeek just watched that a couple days ago :D
;p
(I just wanted an excuse to use that. I need to teach cavil to do that at some point ;p)
11:20
12:13
@Paul No, ok let me post there. ... Done! here is the link : superuser.com/questions/964093/…
 
3 hours later…
15:14
The last message was posted 23 hours ago.
Hi I have a doubt in Data Backup
I have done a backup using the Dell backup and recovery
and got
thse files were not backedup
so if i do the microsoft backup will these files also be backed up or the microsoft backup will do a different backup
My Anker Astro3 is starting to show its age, do I upgrade?
It's still managing to bring my Nexus 9 to a full charge from empty, but my power demands have grown substantially since I got that power-hungry tablet.
Jun 13 at 20:40, by DragonLord
My Nexus 9 gets very H-O-T near the top right corner when under load for more than a few seconds.
May 28 at 12:23, by DragonLord
http://www.notebookcheck.net/HTC-Google-Nexus-9-Wi-Fi-32-GB-Tablet-Review.130446‌​.0.html says 9.2 watts peak draw (which is probably overall system power)
Time to upgrade?
Bob
Bob
15:35
@DragonLord Consider carrying two separate packs rather than just one large one?
Part of Anker's new Power series of high-tech charging equipment.
Bob
Bob
@DragonLord Unless it does QC2, there isn't much special about it :P
@Bob I'd prefer to carry one and keep another at home in that case.
@Bob Actually, one of the smaller models has QC2.
Bob
Bob
Anything without QC2 is pretty standard, "new" or not.
Bob
Bob
15:37
> Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 output not supported
^ Can recharge (but not output power) with Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0.
Bob
Bob
It's partway there.
It can be a sink for QC2 but cannot be a source.
Ironically, this smaller unit goes both ways:
Bob
Bob
hm
10050 (3-cell, latest ultra-high-capacity Li-ion cells)
Bob
Bob
15:38
@DragonLord What do you do with it?
Unless gaming I can't really think of anything that would put such a large load on a tablet.
10W is crazy.
Primarily to charge my Nexus 9 and other devices. My tablet is very power-hungry even when web browsing.
The Tegra K1 runs very hot.
Bob
Bob
@DragonLord "latest" but the 3400mAh 18650 cells have been out for years now :P
@Bob Cost has come down.
Bob
Bob
At least three years.
@DragonLord Funny, that. Retail price hasn't changed. I expect wholesale hasn't dropped by that much either.
I could see it for pouch cells, but cylindrical? Doubtful.
The new 3350/3400 mAh 18650 cells have come down in cost.
Bob
Bob
15:41
@DragonLord Just web browsing? Hm.
At that rate one might as well go with an Atom.
I do game on it, and some games are better than others.
Bob
Bob
@DragonLord Which ones?
Mostly King games like Candy Crush Soda, but some (e.g. AlphaBetty, with extensive use of particle effects) are very hard on the SoC.
Yeah, surprising performance demands for such casual games.
Don't forget it's rendering to a 2048x1536 display.
I have root and can turn down the clock speed, but AlphaBetty runs nowhere near 60fps if I throttle the CPU to less than 2 GHz.
Bob
Bob
@DragonLord I meant which cells are cheaper, but ok :P
(looks like 3400mAh is still just Panasonic with the NCR18650B and variants)
@DragonLord I can see it happening for games of all kinds.
Mostly because many tend to be poorly optimised at best.
But I'm surprised at the web browsing power consumption.
Depends on what I'm viewing; heavier pages such as on Wikia sites push the hardware a lot
Chrome is also very memory-intensive.
Bob
Bob
15:48
@DragonLord Wikia is only heavy due to all the shit scripts they put on there.
They even broke expected browser navigation behaviour (a big no-no in webdev)
An effort to make the site look/feel "modern". Fancy animations that drain power for negligible gain.
Wikia has lots of users and the only way they make money is by advertising. It's not exactly scalable.
Bob
Bob
@DragonLord I don't really mind the advertising by itself.
Wikia is probably paying through the roof for hosting. Anyone can create a wiki. It also hosts several very large wiki communities.
Bob
Bob
The majority of CPU usage comes from all the navigation scripts.
That's why the ads are so intrusive.
Bob
Bob
15:50
And the topbar.
Logged-in users have the more intrusive ads disabled, though.
16:04
I suppose I'll wait a bit until they revise the charging circuitry on the PowerCore series. One user (a top reviewer) has reported a problem that Anker is working to fix.
My Astro3 is still serviceable and I'll continue to use it.
The Anker Power family is a brand-new product line (less than two months old) with a brand-new design and some teething problems are not unexpected.
The Astro family has been the gold standard for portable USB chargers for a while, so improving upon it isn't exactly easy.
The PowerCore chargers have a new feature called VoltageBoost which increases output voltage to compensate for voltage drop due to cable resistance, ensuring the highest possible charge rate.
Even something as conceptually simple as a portable USB charger has room for innovation.
16:49
This is precisely why DEF CON exists in the first place.
Industry is slow to fix security problems unless you can demonstrate an imminent danger in their products.
The main reason is money.
17:02
Feel like getting into hacking :)
17:23
@djsmiley2k why would a "white" hat hackers be telling mass crouds of people how to participate in criminal activity even if they themselves would not participate in such?
??
@Psycogeek I don't understand what your saying.
@Psycogeek it's all been patched.
patched? how do you patch the other 500,000 2013 vehicles that the owners didnt see these things?
when much of the criminal activity done by young people , was previously written by hackers who claim to be all moralistic , yet reveal the methodlogy to everyone, which guarentess that thier fun little adventures in learning, create real criminals.
and real crminials are often quite stupid :-) so without the assistance of the LOL white hack big mouth , paid for apperances hackers, there is little anyone would have to worry about this stuff. Making the white lean into shades of grey.
 
2 hours later…
19:35
Hello I have a question that I posted to Super User meta, and I was sent here to ask my question in the chat section. Here is the link: http://meta.superuser.com/questions/9658/netbooks-huge-gap-in-the-price?noredirect=1#comment26336_9658
Or I can copy - paste my question here
@Divin3 Hi there
no need to paste your question into here; we can read it from your meta post
Most hardware that would be saleable at the $500 price point (the midpoint between the $300 and $700 you stated) is "larger scale" than can fit in a netbook. That means: higher voltage, higher power consumption, larger dimensions, etc. - but very low-end. Stuff like Core i3 CPUs and cheap 2.5" HDDs.
Getting that cheap hardware smaller increases cost, so you slide right past the $500 price point.
A $500 laptop is typically large, has a large, cheap screen, fairly good hardware that nevertheless chugs energy way faster than a netbook's battery could keep up with, and nothing as expensive as an SSD or discrete graphics card.
I call these "craptops".
Remember: miniaturization is expensive. To have decent components at small sizes and low consumption, the price increases exponentially with performance and capability and capacity.
To fit something like a "full-fat laptop-scale" Core i3 worth of performance into the form factor of a small netbook (smaller than 11" diagonal), would probably cost on the order of $1100, as you said.
That's because you'd have to cut power consumption without significantly hurting performance. The cheapest way to throw out lots of high-performance hardware, is to trade greater physical dimensions (larger) and higher power consumption for lower price.
To get that same high-performance hardware but smaller, you're going to necessarily have to pay more money for it.
19:50
@allquixotic can we get back later to this discussion? My shift is over and I can not continue until I get home from work. I have a few more question that I would like to ask You
user image
3
from the FBI spokesperson to congress.
20:06
@Psycogeek "US" meaning the government?
US Gobmt: "ALL YOUR PLAINTEXT ARE BELONG TO US"
20:20
@Psycogeek people who do not have a slightest clue about security should not make or uphold laws regarding security
3
20:46
My boss: "The site has to go live TODAY and no one planned anything so we're in a hurry, just make everyone admin"
Guess what? @abbyhairboat (via email) selected me as one of several winners of the #SOreadytohelp sweepstakes!
@DragonLord and you deleted it immediataly figuring it was spam ? :-)
For reference, here's the tweet in question:
#StackOverflow and the #StackExchange network has played a key role in my studies. Thank you. http://stackoverflow.com/users/681231/dragonlord #SOreadytohelp
21:23
Form submitted.
@allquixotic You did answer in 90% to my question. A few things are left unclear to me: So what You say is, it doesn't worth for the companies to invest money in mid range netbook? I could not find a netbook with an average configuration. I can only choose between the crappy processor, limited amount of RAM (not changeable), and the high end part that [I can not/do not want to] afford. What I wanted was an i3 processor, hybrid HDD at least 4Gb of RAM, and a dedicated video card, and a good brand
I was unable to find one
@Divin3 you're not going to find a dedicated GPU in a netbook, because netbooks are too small for that
the smallest computers with a dedicated GPU are something like 13.3" diagonal
not only the size of the GPU and board, but the heat dissipation (heatsink and fan) necessary for it, and the larger battery
@allquixotic: meow!
@allquixotic I would go for up to a 14.9" diagonal
abby hairboat picked me as a lucky winner :)
21:38
@DragonLord ?
@Divin3 that is not a "netbook" per my definition
See chat log.
anything larger than 11" is (IMO) not a netbook
@Divin3 in that case, you could probably satisfy all of your requirements except "dedicated GPU" in around $600
@allquixotic Yes at first I was talking about netbooks, but as I am looking for more products, this rule also applies to 14" as well
@DragonLord Congrats ... you won a t-shirt?
@allquixotic Yeah :-)
21:44
@allquixotic there is a website where I usually look for products because they have a wide variety. So as I sorted the 14" notebooks ascending after price, the results are: it raises until $339, and the next step is $575 The gap appears again
118 products in total with 14" diagonal
22:04
wow... my Win 10 update just came through...
22:58
@allquixotic: kiiinda
there's a 13 inch version of my stream 11. identical internals
most netbooks do have shitty processors tho
@allquixotic and IIRC a bunch of other swag
23:22
Intel HEDT flagship motherboards: ASUS ROG Rampage V Extreme or MSI X99 Godlike Gaming?
Just for planning purposes, I don't have that sort of money just yet.

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