Root Access

allquixotic

14:00

the thing about software is that almost no software can actually be said to be "niche" -- especially in the case of audio/video editing/enhancing/fixing/etc, there is really no argument that it's niche or rare... if people COULD afford it, it would be wildly popular and used by millions

instead, it's used probably by hundreds of thousands who pirate it, and a few thousand who can afford it

Photoshop is even more egregiously weighted towards people pirating it

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: funny thing is a lot of critical software in my industry is niche as heck, but there's free versions of lots of it.

allquixotic

the niche software I use at work is open source, so yeah

Journeyman Geek

thefoundry.co.uk/products/nuke for example

allquixotic

I feel like most of these A/V companies that create audio and video editing/processing products don't do their marketing homework properly; they don't understand their customers or potential customers

Journeyman Geek

(its no secret, and a good chunk of the industry probably uses it. Not sure about the folks across the street and pixar ;p)

allquixotic

14:03

if they had separate price points for non-commercial/hobbyist and commercial, like that one DL mentioned above, they'd actually make more money

Psycogeek

When they provide pricing difference for huge mass offices full of the same software, i assume that much of the price reduction for software is "support" at 20-50$ and hour for a good US based tech geek to talk to somone about a problem. a 3 hour support issue just blew the entire profit on the software sales.

allquixotic

they don't seem to be doing that because they probably don't even realize the potential

they're literally not aware of what could be

they assume that higher license cost = more money in their pocket

but that is simply not true

user_rak

Hi,
I am running a script file with ./script_file in tcsh, what does ./ mean here ?

allquixotic

@user_rak it means look in the current directory, whose alias is always .

user_rak

@allquixotic Thank you. I couldn't run the script. Will seek your help further, just in case

allquixotic

14:07

you probably didn't make the script executable, if you just wrote some text to a file

user_rak

the first line of the script says #!/bin/bash , so it means executable right ?

allquixotic

....You seem to be lacking the basic, fundamental knowledge required to use a shell. Stop what you are doing; stop relying on others to spoonfeed you information; and learn about the shell environment before you try to fumble around using it. A good start would be to go through the tutorials here.

user_rak

ok i will go through it, thanks, but tell me is it wrong ?

yes i am a novice in shell

allquixotic

#!/bin/bash at the start of the file means that when the file is executed, it will invoke the bash interpreter in order to run the rest of the file. However, the file is not being executed because you don't have the execute bit set in the permissions mask.

If you would learn the basics of the shell you would not have to ask these questions of others. Here is a direct explanation of how to make a script executable, since the tutorial I posted before doesn't seem to explicitly say that.

Specifically, see section 2.1.3 on that page.

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek that nuke looks close to a clone of the grass valley stuff i use, in both interface style and function. but it is anything but cheap 2500$

user_rak

14:14

@allquixotic Thanks

Journeyman Geek

tho, if you're using tcsh, that hashbang would be different.

(also, tcsh is a terribad choice of shell, and I say this cause we use it extensively where I work)

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek Well, if his intent is to run bash from tcsh, he's doing fine. But if he wants to run tcsh, then yeah, that'll have to change.

Journeyman Geek

@user_rak nixsrv.com/llthw this is an excellent primer to linux.

allquixotic

I misread your comment at first to imply that somehow tcsh was parsing the #! and was about to correct you (it's the program loader that interprets the shebang, not the shell)...

Journeyman Geek

;p

allquixotic

14:16

@JourneymanGeek if $SHELL out of the box is tcsh rather than bash, I'm willing to bet he's on ancient Solaris.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: ._.

allquixotic

maybe Sol8 or Sol9

Journeyman Geek

Or works where I do ;p

user_rak

@JourneymanGeek Thanks :)

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek If he's in your building, get thee over there and beat him over the head with a 500-page UNIX for dummies book. ;)

androidplusios.design

14:17

@JourneymanGeek as per you said I have a written a mail to dreamspark.

But, have at this students are getting better version of windows 10: http://onthehub.com/download/free-software/windows-10-education-for-students/

specially made for them. I wished my school was registered to onthehub along with dreamspark

Journeyman Geek

@user_rak: and as someone who learnt linux an even harder way, learning the fundamentals will save a lot of pain later.

@allquixotic: alas, he's my bosses' boss

allquixotic

@_@

Journeyman Geek

OH

the guy who's responsible for us using tcsh

I have no clue who @user_rak is

allquixotic

why was the decision made to begin with?

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: I think it was so they could have commonality between solaris (ages ago) linux and OS X

user_rak

14:19

thats right.

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek Irony of ironies, you can compile modern bash on even a very old Solaris and OS X.

Journeyman Geek

And well....

The way we do software is wierd

Some stuff's super concervative

some stuff, we never found a wheel we couldn't reinvent

allquixotic

also, Solaris and OS X have excellent binary compatibility, so you can just cp a binary (even from a newer system to an older one) and run it fine.

I think Solaris 10 has a Bash implementation out of the box that can be cped to any Solaris back to 1985

sounds like the place I used to work at

DragonLord

@allquixotic We used to have an old Solaris 9 server for teaching students Unix. Disk quotas were tiny (25 MB) because the disks were really small.

allquixotic

they used something called scratchbox to do lightweight containerish things

DragonLord

14:22

We now have Ubuntu servers and workstations instead.

Journeyman Geek

oh, this is an internal project

which means its very likely no one will get how it works in a few years

allquixotic

@DragonLord Univ of Maryland had Solaris 2.6 (SunOS 5.6) UltraSPARC servers in the early to mid 2000s for a similar purpose, though disk quotas were 100 MB

DragonLord

web.archive.org/web/20110424211818/http://unixace.csi.cuny.edu/…

allquixotic

I ran OpenSolaris on my ThinkPad at one point during my studies there :P

Journeyman Geek

;p

allquixotic

14:26

no 3d accel, all rasterized

Gnome 2.something

DragonLord

They had ancient compilers. I remember using the register keyword to try to get as much performance as possible out of that ancient SPARC processor.

Journeyman Geek

meh. If you were running solaris, you really should have gone CDE

DragonLord

GCC 2.95.3.

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek OpenSolaris' default was GNOME in the late 2000s and it was much more usable than CDE

the project was actually to try and get Solaris to be an alternative to Linux for desktop and server with a similar userspace and environment but a different kernel

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: heh, I think I installed solaris 9 and got CDE on purpose ;p

allquixotic

14:28

they wanted Debian with a Solaris kernel, more or less... Ian Murdock, founder of the Debian project, was involved

Journeyman Geek

I prolly still have the installer DVD (from sun!) somewhere

Bob

what did I miss?

allquixotic

I wish Sun hadn't been purchased by Oracle

Journeyman Geek

Yeah

allquixotic

I'd love to see an independent Sun producing a FOSS operating system competitive with Linux these days

DragonLord

14:30

illumos is still around.

Journeyman Geek

(heh, I think I was cussing about their hardware their other day)

allquixotic

@DragonLord but the code being developed behind closed doors at Oracle isn't being released as open source anymore; IllumOS is based on the last snapshot of OpenSolaris before they closed off the source tap, and has been maintained to an extent independently by other companies and a community

Journeyman Geek

Bunch of blades we have from them are failing. I need a support contract to look up the damned error code :/

DragonLord

@allquixotic Yeah. That's the sad part.

allquixotic

but IllumOS is very unhealthy in terms of its answer for just about every market space except for storage servers

Journeyman Geek

14:31

yup

allquixotic

ZFS still makes it a fantastic operating system for storage servers

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: which is about its only selling point.

And well

allquixotic

it's not even THAT much of a selling point of the Solaris kernel anymore, since ZFS on Linux is a thing, and Bob and I both use it

@JourneymanGeek (removed)

Bob

@allquixotic still not as complete, and not as proven

Journeyman Geek

Point ;p

Bob

14:33

if you want a stable open ZFS implementation, I think BSD was the way to go

Journeyman Geek

Sorry about that ;p

DragonLord

I'd rather do software RAID. ZFS is an option.

allquixotic

@Bob not sure I agree, actually -- since the code is acknowledged as a derivative work of the Solaris kernel, it's CDDL licensed, and they literally lift as much code as they can -- the only changed stuff is the interfaces into the rest of the kernel

DragonLord

FreeNAS is probably the best OS for this purpose.

Journeyman Geek

The fact that we have a shitton of storage (and to an extent what brand of hardware we use) is open, but I donno how seecrit we are about the details ;p

Bob

14:34

@allquixotic and bugs can still arise there

can't argue the 'not as complete', though - still no encryption support

@DragonLord for home use.

allquixotic

true; and even upstream IllumOS is using a zpool version significantly older than closed-source Solaris now

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: that said, many proper storage arrays would quite happily do raid, failure handling and such

(and for various reasons, I'd consider throwing zfs on a SAS attached disk array a little complex)

allquixotic

@DragonLord software RAID increases the CPU overhead of I/O significantly, especially if you have any parity in there -- mirroring and striping are one thing, but if you're running RAID5, RAID6, RAID50, etc., you're asking a lot of the CPU and risking becoming CPU-bound during intensive writes

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Serially-Attached-SCSI-attached

allquixotic

I'd rather keep that CPU headroom open for actual computation in applications, and offload the parity bit calcs to a dual-core RAID application processor on a dedicated board

Bob

14:36

Serially-Attached-Small-Computer-System-Interface-attached

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: In this case yes

You'd connect a disk array (which essentially has its own management and such, and is a cut down server) to another server via an external sas card

DragonLord

My plans call for a set of SAS disks (WD Re) on a machine with at least 8 hot-swap bays. I'll start with 4 and expand from there.

allquixotic

@Bob Oh, you silly... I'll stick my CPU Unit in your server's RAM Memory slot if I damn well please ;-)

DragonLord

Overkill for a home storage server, yes. But reliability matters a lot to me.

Journeyman Geek

@DragonLord: I assume I can lose one or two disks, and still have my data backed up.

DragonLord

14:39

@JourneymanGeek The approach I take is that the NAS is a backup layer. Additional media (e.g. BD-R discs) will still be used for critical data like photos.

Journeyman Geek

Primary backup at the moment is a 3tb nas. Its unfortunately a seagate, so I expect it to fail right after the warranty ends, or maybe before

that's copied over to my desktop, which has a HGST drive

which I don't expect to fail, ever.

DragonLord

RAID by itself is not a backup mechanism. The NAS as a whole can be treated as one.

Journeyman Geek

and a third tier is a periodic dump to an external HDD.

Bob

Side note: please do not try shoving your graphics card into the DIMM (memory) slots. You can try the other PCIe slots of the same size. — Bob yesterday

DragonLord

If you want everything on one board, there's an enthusiast X99 board with a built-in server-grade SAS controller.

Maybe couple that with a Haswell-EP Xeon E5-16xx v3 processor and 16 GB or more of ECC memory and you have a strong foundation for a storage server.

Bob

15:54

Hm. Anyone here ever used a smartwatch? Moto 360? Thoughts?

allquixotic

@Bob @BenRichards has one for Windows Phone or something. They always pull my arm-hairs, so, I wouldn't really use one. Probably a similar reason as to why @JourneymanGeek doesn't use one. It'd pull his fur.

Bob

@allquixotic At about $200 it's pricey but if it's sufficiently useful I'd be interested.

allquixotic

they seem useless to me, but I've never owned one

Bob

Sounds useful: keep phone unlocked when nearby, auto-lock when out of range. Use to view phone camera (e.g. in tight spaces). View caller at a glance when otherwise busy or hands dirty.

It's a bit gimmicky, to be sure, but not entirely useless.

I currently wear an analogue watch that's served me well.

Psycogeek

i would want to get one for fun, but i do not believe. Send a text with voice, yea, and editing the text made with speech to text :-P . Have that map your using show on the watch, yea all 1 inches of it. Know who is calling on watch, and get MMS. got that covered with having the phone voice all that stuff using macrodroid, and all callers have thier own ringtones. Watch movies on the watch, been there done that too small not bright enough.

Get time on the watch, i set the phone to speak time when it is shook or bumped.

play games on the watch, like what pong :-)

Then the balance of How big, vrses how much you can see. Which makes me think that a wrap around band oled flexi display even bigger but not clunkey would be a thing. The Pebble watch has a lot of people thrilled. and may very well be more adaptable to different phones vrses single branded.

Bob

16:17

@Psycogeek I keep my phone on silent, so the watch would definitely be useful there.

Especially since I sometimes miss the vibration in my pocket, let alone lying around the house.

Hm. $900 for a 980Ti. That's actually quite a nice price.

Psycogeek

a watch vibrating would be a improvement there, plus it wouldnt have to be as loud. phone vibrators arent exactally silent.
another concideration would be charging. being a whole computer on the wrist, depending on the use it might have to be charged more like daily then weekly.

Bob

Far too much for me, but still nice :P

DragonLord

@Bob That's in line with the price here, US$650

Bob

@DragonLord Usually >$1k here

DragonLord

Wow. There must be import duties involved.

Bob

16:22

Note that this includes 10% GST.

Private import under $1k don't have any import duty and don't add GST.

So I can (easily) buy a 980Ti from the US, but not a high-end Surface Pro.

DragonLord

There have been talks about tax reform here. Sales tax is charged at the state and local level here in the US, and a complex structure of income and other taxes exist here.

The plan is to replace all this complexity with a unified VAT.

Bob

@DragonLord There's good and bad. Especially when your states are so disparate.

DragonLord

(States will probably continue to levy their own taxes.)

user_rak

I have my script file named file1.sh in the current folder , but when i run the command ./file1 par1 par2, (where par1 and par2 are some input arguments) I get ./file1 command not found , why would i get that. Any ideas on how to fix it ?

DragonLord

VAT is one of several possible reform options here.

Bob

16:26

@user_rak ./file is different from ./file1.sh

You can either rename the real file without the .sh (fairly typical), call it with the .sh (also acceptable) or symlink it (bad, cluttery) or get the shell to auto-add it (very very bad)

user_rak

It shows permission denied, when i call command with ./file1.sh

i will see renaming without .sh

DragonLord

The state of Michigan had a failed experiment with VAT.

Bob

@user_rak chmod +x file1.sh

You need to make the file executable first.

You can u+x or g+x or o+x to make it executable for the owning user, the owning group, or everyone respectively.

See perlfect.com/articles/chmod.shtml or grymoire.com/Unix/Permissions.html for more info.

user_rak

ok

thnak you

allquixotic

@Bob Apparently he didn't read the article I posted before from tldp.org.

Bob

16:39

@allquixotic I didn't read the whole chat log, if this has been discussed before.

allquixotic

@Bob Start there.

That's like 2 hours ago and he basically asks the exact same question again to you now.

Hennes

17:11

Whee. I got my kobo

Now the quest to find its setup software. No CD included. An URL to download the application keeps sending me to microsoft.com.

Ben Richards

@allquixotic Yep. It's a Hot Watch Curve. It actually had a bad screen so I'm getting it replaced via warranty. New, kickstarted project. It works well and all, but clearly a v1 product. :)

So it's got rough edges. But right now while it's getting replaced (had to send existing one back) I'm kind of missing having one.

You get used to glancing at your wrist to check notifications.

I bought a stand-alone car GPS again since I got tired of having to worry about phone's battery level when getting into the car. Also, my phone has an AMOLED screen and is starting to get burn-in for a couple of the white icons in the GPS app I was using.

Stand-alone GPS devices are pretty nice these days. They definitely took some cues from smartphone hardware design and UX since I last had one.

allquixotic

17:26

@BenRichards phone's battery level in the car? I have a 12V DC aux -> USB charger that puts out enough amps to charge my Note 4 while the screen is on and navigating.

even if I take my phone into my car with its battery dead, I can still navigate.

Sathya

stackoverflow.com/10m

6

Bob

@BenRichards How was the battery life?

How comfortable was it?

Hennes

@BenRichards Sound familiar. When using tomtom my phone drains faster than it can chanrge

Psycogeek

"8 million developers come here every day." and half of them still cant program thier way out of a paper bag :-)

Hennes

But they can ask. And we can answer "HErre, let me google that for you"

Bob

17:29

@Psycogeek ...half?

I'm more afraid of the ones who can program their way out.

allquixotic

@Sathya I kinda get a sour taste from them at least not roping in the trilogy sites for "celebrations" like that. SU and SF are not really big enough to have something like that much / at all, yet I'm pretty sure we save people a few hours as well. Oh well.

Bob

/literal pedant

allquixotic

SE has always been 99% about SO anyway.

And I have more than enough T-shirts.

DragonLord

System message up on Stack Overflow.

@Sathya Somebody needs to pin this.

allquixotic

done

DragonLord

17:37

#StackOverflow and the #StackExchange network has played a key role in my studies. Thank you. http://stackoverflow.com/users/681231/dragonlord #SOreadytohelp

Tweeted by fierydragonlord on August 20, 2015 at 5:36 PM

Sathya

@allquixotic yeah, well that ship has sorta sailed for me

Ben Richards

@allquixotic I don't worry about it draining while navigating so much. My charger keeps it about even. But I get nervous when my battery level is sub 20%. Or if it's dead. It won't even turn on until it charges past a certain point, and in the car that's slower than in a wall outlet.

So that means I'm stuck wherever I am until my phone turns on, if I don't know my route from that location.

But since my phone is Bluetooth paired with my car, I also wasn't getting voice directions from the GPS unless I switched to Bluetooth audio, so it was either have my phone connected to my car or listen to music if I wanted them.

Doing music through the phone works but is a hassle and eats data since most of my music on my phone is streamed.

@Bob The smartwatch? Needed a charge every couple days, I think. It was pretty comfortable though the strap could've been a little longer for a large sized band. Soft rubber and fit well.

Bob

@BenRichards I see it's e-ink...

Ben Richards

@Bob Yeah. But that's fine for me.

@Bob I have no idea how ordering from their online store will work if you wanted to do that. I got mine off of ebay from a kickstarter backer who didn't want it.

Bob

Moto 360 I was looking at is LCD, so battery life would be considerably shorter.

Ben Richards

17:48

Yeah

I think the Moto 360 also doesn't have a particularly power efficient chip in it

I have seen some people who own it though. They seem to like it.

Bob

@BenRichards You need a better car charger.

Ben Richards

@Bob Likely. My friend let me use his portable backup battery charger thing when we went on a roadtrip recently. It was 2x as fast to charge than my car.

Bob

Here's a good one: geekbuying.com/item/… buybuybuy coupon for 9.50 USD thanks to ozbargain.com.au/node/206786

They're basically an Anker clone... or maybe not, but I have used them before and they're pretty good. Or you can pay more and grab an Anker one :P

Ben Richards

But either way, my phone never drained while using GPS unless I was doing other things or it was using high screen brightness. I could actually let it charge fine though if I turned off the phone screen. The GPS app ran in the background and would give voice prompts, but w/o the screen on and w/ the app in the background used less power.

I'm fine for now with a separate GPS device :)

I'm not plugging my phone into my car whenever I drive now, unless it needs charging.

At work it sits on a charging pad anyway.

Bob

@BenRichards Oh?

Haven't heard that.

Ben Richards

17:52

I dunno if it's on v2 of the hardware, but yeah.

I read it a long time ago when it first came out.

Bob

@BenRichards You'd get max ~2A @ 5V with a good USB charger with a typical flagship phone.

Doesn't matter if it's car or not.

Ben Richards

I have a 3rd party car charger.

Bob

@BenRichards Probably maxes out at 1A. Maybe even half that if it's particularly bad.

Ben Richards

Yeah my friend had an Anker. That's what he used.

I'm looking up what I bought

It's 2A.

The battery was pushing out more than that then.

Though it has 2 USB outputs. So if you had two phones plugged in, you'd be halving the output.

Bob

@BenRichards If you want a portable charger, grab one of the Xiaomi ones (from a trusted source; bunch of fakes floating around)

excellent for the price

Anker is also decent, if a bit pricier, but since they decided to stop shipping to AU I won't really recommend them anymore :P

actual quality is similar, I'd expect

Ben Richards

18:03

Maybe someday

Psycogeek

even my big phat phone only uses ~500ma max when doing 4 core gps nav rendering 30fps , plus playing music, lus the screen backlight at 100%. It is the chargers and the wire to them that is the flaw

Even with a real 2amp charger, the thin roll-up/retract wiring that i prefer to use, doesnt allow for the high rate charging.

Bob

@Psycogeek ya, a poor cable often restricts it to 500mA or even less

@Psycogeek cmon, get a good wire -_-

they aren't even expensive now

Psycogeek

@Bob good wire doesnt fit well into the car, distance , and crap everywhere. so a Big fat battery :-) instead solves that problem.

Bob

@Psycogeek geekbuying.com/item/… or amazon.com/gp/product/B00MLSY6MM/…

they fit just as well as any other cable :P

Heck, the short little cable that comes with the Xiaomi battery packs are good enough

Psycogeek

you know how many cheap wires i already have right :-) I need diamond carbon nano tube high fidelity ones . Buy nice or buy 14 times .

Bob

18:11

@Psycogeek I have a drawer full of the cheap ones. No idea what I'll do with them.

I've taken to using some of them to test a knife -_-

Psycogeek

and the distance is longer than the usual cable. WTF do yous guys drive from the wrong seat in the car too :-)

Bob

@Psycogeek 1ft is preeeeetty short as far as USB cables go

Psycogeek

GPS up on dash in the corner, as it is illegal in the US to have them on window, that makes it like as far away from the Ciggie lighter as running it to the back seat.

Bob

@Psycogeek wait what, it is?

also, I thought you meant the cables are too long

is 6ft long enough? cause that's in those packs

9ft also available

Psycogeek

yea little over 3 feet is long enough.

but then there is routing too, for some reason it is a bit of a problem to loop it through that steering thing :-)

Ben Richards

18:17

@Psycogeek Sounds like a state law, and I haven't heard of this before. No one has ever complained about stuff on my windshield the times I got pulled over. I don't think they would unless it was legitimately obstructing my view.

Bob

everything here comes with suction caps

Ben Richards

Yeah. Like my new GPS. Platforms you can mount things to that sit on the top of the dash are often sold separately, at least here in MA.

Psycogeek

@BenRichards yea state

and see , they Claim that it is legal again engadget.com/2008/09/30/… but as you can see, it is no different than how we had it.

no obstruction methods.

it was illegal in a few states i was in, to have "dice" hanging off the mirror, or air freshners, and even wemen getting it for having neclace pendants hanging down.

General DMV law was always saying that any windshield obstruction was illegal, before gps even existed. California just created laws for that seperate.

Like this vermonttrafficticket.com/2014/10/10/…

Another weird one, for some time it was illegal to drive in bare feet, then it became illegal to wear "Flip-Flops" when driving, thongs , floppy sandals. (because they can get caught in the pedals) Now (havent checked this week) it is again legal to drive in bare feet.

(in california)

DragonLord

19:08

> 10 million questions. 16.5 million answers. 138.4 million votes, edits, and comments. 7.5 billion total impressions. THANK YOU! stackoverflow.com/10m

Psycogeek

usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/08/20/… 26 million E-mails hacked (again) "The surprisingly popular website for married people looking for affairs was hacked last month"

DragonLord

Stack Overflow sure has come a long way...

Psycogeek

19:39

"It provided technical assistance in carrying out a secret court order permitting the wiretapping of all Internet communications at the United Nations headquarters, a customer of AT&T.
The N.S.A.’s top-secret budget in 2013 for the AT&T partnership was more than twice that of the next-largest such program, according to the documents. The company installed surveillance equipment in at least 17 of its Internet hubs" http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/us/politics/att-helped-nsa-spy-on-an-array-of-internet-traffic.html

Hey that explains some of them internet slowdowns :-) people have had.

Bob

21:20

@allquixotic @BenRichards Huh, dunno how I completely forgot about the Microsoft Band.

But it's less of a traditional watch shape and the screen is on the wrist...

O_O there's actually a MS store planned for Sydney

oookay

Ramhound

21:34

A moderator might want to add some additional thoughts towards this user.

-1

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