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00:05
"For Skylake on the desktop, the voltage regulation is moved back into the hands of the motherboard manufacture" Ohh will you make up your minds here :-)
4 hours ago, by DragonLord
No more FIVR—multiphase VRMs on the motherboard are going to be necessary again.
and many other motherboard changes that will make the first few motherboards comming out (lets say) tough to be perfectally bug free.
@Ramhound Looks like this is a different problem to what I'm facing here at work. IE11 closes correctly, it just refuses to open any old tabs that were open.
@MichaelFrank and your sure no parts and pieces of IE are still shown hanging around in the processes list? (i am very interested in still fixing this) The re-open tabs was all interrelated to this, even if different people see differentthings.
00:21
@Psycogeek Yea, I watched the process disappear from Task Manager, then tried to open IE again. No tabs.
@MichaelFrank - Well that is my problem. When it happens verify there isn't a small 32MB IE process running even after you close IE.
It only restores the tabs IF that process is stopped
I should have just made a dang batch that nukes stuff. like a toggle batch, On on the first round, Off Fully when pushed and the program is still running.
I wish I had the money for one of these 6th generation Intel CPUs:-(
00:38
I still do not see a real reason why people with sandybridge who kicked up the extra 25% , or ivy or haswell, would toss everything and start again with skylake. I could see that anyone using win10 and buying new would be sitting pretty. or any new laptops and all would be doing great.
00:53
Even some of the comments in the skylake analisis , seem to have a bit of Relief in thier voices :-) Whew! thank god that didnt change things hugely , or i would have to upgrade everything again .
More like spend $1000 bucks for a new primo system, and the time it takes to build and perfect it, to get a few percentage points of over all performance, and faster word processing. I can wait.
Why $1000 ? must have new motherboard, must have new cpu chip, must have really expencive (at the moment) new memory to get all the advantages.
 
1 hour later…
02:14
Well, Skylake brings a very small increase in performance (about 5% over Haswell) with a slight drop in power consumption under normal conditions.
TDP is actually up, but that's to allow for more thermal headroom for the new IGP.
Overclocking is not much better, but improvements in the 14nm process will likely mean things will get better over time.
sort of odd when the power is up , when the voltage regulators of any kind would have power losses
The biggest advance is the new Z170 chipset, which has 20 PCIe 3.0 lanes built in.
This means more room for PCIe SSDs and other PCIe hardware without interfering with SLI or CrossFire.
Gotta go.
Is it more likely that not having really been able to do mass changes with the clock or size of stuff, or mass changes just because of how well things were done before. that the new chip is just like a Pre-Overclocked GPU. Pushed to the edge for you.
There was a specific number of lanes piped out of the cpu before, and hubbing the lanes was not improvement. (although intel hubbing the lanes would be optimal) The lanes were always capable of being used different ways on different boards. a bit more sata , the USB3 or the grafics. So they introduced another method to shift the lanes around. I do not understand how that differs? it became harder to find boards using the lanes the way You want, for your specific needs. what changed?
Became harder when they needed the lanes for M2 usb3 , and other cool new features not everyone used. out of the CPU only so many lanes to go around, and at the cpu level what changed ?
02:33
tt-rss.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3445&start=15 slightly NSFW but ttrss' forums are kinda hillarious.
@Psycogeek: I wouldn't upgrade for just more speed. NVMe and USB 3.1 are the killer things for me.
@DragonLord Oh duhh right, the really good increase on the built in GPU, would change the power spec lots.
But built in gpus mean little to "enthusiest" a lot more to anyone buying a new laptop without any additional gpu.
The direct interfacing of SSD on the motherboards , does not thrill me a lot, only because stuff like that changes so much. if it goes in a normal slot, or works with the regular SATA junk , it is a lot more transferable to other places. For a Netbook or a laptop though it is eacactally what they need.
02:57
0
Q: How can you play the same songs as a radio station at a higher quality?

PhillipThere's an FM radio station I listen to very often, and I really like the way they mix the songs. Much better than simply shuffling my music. I happen to have the vast majority of the songs they play, all properly tagged mp3's @ 320kbps. I would like to have an automated function that tunes in to...

What? because i never heard of a playlist :-) and it has been hard to find ways to jam all the advertinging in too .
Vritual DJ , complete with ad cartriges. plays the same tune every day, Features Payoloa sensitivity adjustments, Cortana song announcing, rotating ads. Reshuffle and random priority.
 
1 hour later…
04:23
@Psycogeek Interesting question. I don't think it'd work with his method, but you could potentially scrape the now playing data off the station's website (assuming they show it) and have a dynamic playlist update at a 15-30 minute offset to account for the advert and announcer rubbish.
Sneaky Spying Windows!
@MichaelFrank much better idea than trying to do a fuzzy sound matching, and eventually playing the same song
Reddit made some sweeping OMG moderation quarentine and banning today, I went to see what that noise was about , as much freedom as the place has had. They knocked out some racists, virtual psudo child porn , and the bottom .01% of the place. not a big loss in my opinion.
Some of the sub communities taken out, i would refrain from even posting thier titles :-) just because they dont allow such hate speech in my country/state.
04:38
@MichaelFrank: I love that gif ;p
05:25
"Hackers Exploited Yahoo’s Flash Ads for Six Whole Days"
"The exploit worked like this: Hackers bought a number of ads that would be propagated through Yahoo’s network of sites. Ads don’t usually appear on their own—they come loaded with a package of scripts that track metrics for ad companies. In this case, the hackers’ code eventually redirected to a script that exploited computers using older versions of Adobe Flash" http://motherboard.vice.com/read/hackers-exploited-yahoos-flash-ads-for-six-whole-days?utm_source=mbfb
Oh My I was visiting yahoo for those days. Guess i should have had flash installed, cause i missed all the fun.
05:51
pastebin.com/6Qj8X22c someone version of shredding win10 (not suggesting to even try it). All the discussion on removing and shutting it down is going on fast and now. By the time i get around to that OS, there is going to be an overload.
People had indicated the possibility of full removal of items from this new OS, not just turning them "off" and having them hang out in the component store , but the dismal changes in actual size people are getting, does not indicate that there is any full removal still.
Plus , even with some high skilled people turning stuff off and removing it, some of it is being put back the way it was (files and registry) as the system goes to protect itself. (like if a virus or user fault had done the same)
meh. Its pretty hard to not reserve it I guess.
I can't speak for accidental installs since I did that ;p
I don't like what MS has been doing with their operating systems ever since Vista.
@JohnDoe: Actually making them faster (in many cases) and more secure? ;p
I did not like leaving XP , but if I had not moved to win7, i think i would be in worse shape.
A do agree that they have gotten far more secure.
06:05
And well...
Everytime something changes, people complain ;p
They keep changing everything every time they release a new OS, and when people complain they make an OS to fix it and then ruin it again the next.
When going from a horse to a car , people complained , but much of the changes now are going from a metal car, to a car made in plastic
Windows Vista was really bad, so they made 7, then they just had to get rid of the start menu in 8 (what were they thinking), and tried to fix it in 10.
(removed) ??? why are you changing everything? :-)
I spelled something wrong.
Accidentally deleted post instead of editing twice.
06:10
There were significant improvements between 7 and 8
Yes there were.
10's interesting stuff's oddly unexplored.
dx12 and multi adaptor stuff seems shiny
No games on dx12 yet though.
Hopfully it will perform as good as everyone thinks.
I have an old Intel Core 2 Duo desktop and it actually runs 10 way better than the OS it came with (Vista) and 7, so there are a lot of improvements.
@JohnDoe Well you will then be happy to know that "windows 10 is the last OS you will ever need" I mean "the first of a great new era" I mean "another attempt to please the investors"
06:15
I probably won't be upgrading to 10 on my 7 machines because of the forced updates. That is a deal breaker for me.
@JohnDoe: Well, I might have a spare GPU with malfunctioning outputs so it might be fun to try
@JohnDoe: Its hardly 'forced'
You have a year to opt in (and yes, you do need to opt in), to get a free update (to drive initial adoption)
It isn't very forced but they still make you install updates you don't want.
Unless you mean system updates on home and insider systems
meh. People SHOULD update their damned systems
Bob
Bob
@JohnDoe Vista wasn't really bad.
On the kernel end, Vista was a major step forward.
In Windows 7 drivers were optional and you could uncheck them.
Bob
Bob
06:16
Most issues were because the driver model drastically changed and most XP drivers (and hardware) were incompatible.
and MS messed up the system requirements
@JohnDoe we never turned off updates using that method here anyway, so i doubt they changed how i control manually updating here.
Bob
Bob
Also, Vista's general design was far better on multi-core machines - it really didn't do well on single-core.
@Bob I actually think Vista was one of the nicest looking operating systems, but it is a bit slow compared to everything else.
Bob
Bob
On the userland side, the biggest issue was probably the UAC prompts people weren't familiar with.
Not familiar + somewhat annoying = "bad"
@JohnDoe 7 definitely improved on Vista (removed kernel dispatcher lock, etc.), but Vista itself wasn't particularly bad.
06:18
Vista was more colorful than 7 and I loved the icons, but the XP systems of the time just couldn't keep up.
Bob
Bob
I think it was mostly the large shift from XP that people weren't familiar with.
And, yea, the requirements change was quite large too.
Vista before SP2 was kinda buggy though.
or SP1 I don't remember.
heh. @Bob I wonder how a modern atom/celeron(bay trail) tablet/netbook would measure up to a system of that era
Core 2 I guess
Actually I have an older Vista system and it runs Windows 10 just as good as the cheap notebooks you find today.
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek IIRC about equivalent to a late/high-end P4 in raw performance, but the multi-core would improve responsiveness at the cost of slower batch tasks.
06:21
Yeah
and I know that windows 7 ran ok on a single core (with HT?) atom box
Not spectacular, but usable
the service packs not only had a ton of fixes, but they were tested to be plopped in in one move (or assembled proper on install disks) There are times when i have seen Hundreds of updates end up messing things up. all these little changes.
@Psycogeek: and they were an easy way to 'roll up' a system
It was nice that when you were about to install XP you can just slipstream SP3 in and be up to date though.
Yup.
Or install the latest SP and then update
I have something that does something similar (wsus offline update) tho
Did the latest P4 HT support NX bit?
I wonder if that can run 10.
06:25
lol
I don't think anyone here has one.
I think I have a mid model PIII mini ITX somewhere....
My oldest computer has a Celeron 500MHz and 64MB of RAM.
I don't have anything that old at the moment
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek I've had issues running it on a single-core VM.
and my oldest active system is only 8 years old
Well, mostly.
Bob
Bob
Modern Windows really is happier with multi-core. At least if you're excepting a decent interactive experience.
06:28
@Bob: wierd. I've done that too
Win 10 didn't like the single core I gave it tho
Bob
Bob
@JohnDoe Probably not. It was introduced in x86-64 IIRC.
You'd be looking for Pentium D.
I'm pretty sure there were EMT64 capable 'pentium IVs'
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Maybe I'm mixing up 7 and 10 :P
Maybe. I specifically said 7 when talking about single cores tho
Just thinking about how much computers improved over time is crazy.
06:30
I don't have any active systems with less than 2 cores.
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Huh, you're right.
And that one does have NX.
@Bob: I'm always right, except when I'm wrong
and I might have owned one of those
the pentium D was dual core, but ... it was a wierd dual core
Isn't "Execute Disable Bit ‡" the same as NX bit?
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek I still have one of these, with this.
IIRC it was 2 cores in one package rather than 2 cores on one die.
Bob
Bob
06:31
@JohnDoe Yep.
Though it's a stretch to call that netbook active :P
@Bob: I have something older ;p
So there is a P4 that should be able to run 10.
Bob
Bob
Installed OpenSUSE on it a few years ago. Haven't used it since, except for a brief period where my primary laptop was in for repair.
@JourneymanGeek which single core did you toss a win10 onto? did i miss that one
@Psycogeek: VM on my brix
Bob
Bob
06:32
@JohnDoe Nope.
I SHOULD have thrown it on this ark.intel.com/products/35635/…
Bob
Bob
Would be missing CMPXCHG16b
too busy to tho
Bob
Bob
Hm, though it might run the 32-bit version... shrug
@JourneymanGeek That's the oldest one I've booted in the last few years.
Still have that old PIII. I still don't know if it runs.
My Windows 98 machine still works perfectly. google.com/…
06:34
@Bob: I use that when I want to throw things on real hardware temporarily
(and eh... I'm pondering sticking my 660 on my c2duo ;p)
Bob
Bob
Slot-mounted CPUs! :P
lol
PIII? I had one of those. Was my first home server
Oh wait.
I SAID THAT. THREE YEARS AGO.
Bob
Bob
heh
I really should try it out sometime.
06:37
and lol. I mentioned simmtronics. They never did reply to my email.
What CPU did you say it had?
Bob
Bob
@JohnDoe Was a PIII, I think.
What kind?
Bob
Bob
Found the HDD stored separately. Never tried booting it up.
@JohnDoe One of the Slot 1s from this list.
There is a chance you might be able to run Linux on it, though it probably won't run any of the fancy distros like Ubuntu.
Bob
Bob
06:38
No idea which one specifically :P
@JohnDoe Nah, this is definitely a 98SE machine :P
lol
That's the best thing for it.
Bob
Bob
Still, it's sitting in a corner.
Bob
Bob
Probably not worth the effort to get it up :\
2000 will run fine, but XP will be a bit unresponsive.
06:39
@Bob: I intend to try to break into my SGI box again soon
someone gave me some pointers that might work
Bob
Bob
@JohnDoe I have a few 98SE CDs, but no 2000, I think.
Might have to go digging in old boxes again.
pity I don't know anyone with a working octane here ;p
erm. This is more likely a case of "all two people"
I quite literally cannot imagine why someone would actually want a SGI octane. ;p
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek You could call up the local museum?
06:44
;p
(Some days I ponder gutting it and installing a nice x86 into it)
I mean, my phone has more power ;p
Octane (Case) into a USB3 HD box igorkromin.net/index.php/2014/09/01/…
Yeah, but lost out on the cool pull out panels :(
Can anyone tell me where a windows "tiles" start kind of screen layers at? 1) Stays on desktop 2) Can pop to front like program 3) ever pops to front with start menu in win 10?
07:09
4) blocks wallpaper always ? 5) is little different than having desktop icons & gadgets stuck on the desktop 6) isnt accessable when you got 15 windows covering the screen without peeking etc.
The 8 start screen or the 10 start screen?
either, but the 10 looks like it may have differneces?
8 essentially is its own 'desktop'
I don't remember with 10, I need to see.
(I'm at work, we run linux ;p)
well it isnt important just yet.
Shown here Win10 youtu.be/uRs4hz1YEQc?t=471 it is poping in with the start, that might be kinda cool.
08:08
2 modes exist, where it is all over the desktop (with wallpaper sneaking through transparent) called tablet mode. and Desktop mode where it seems to be riding around with the start menu. Looking at the reviews they really have managed to pull off a best of both worlds customise/change. I could see on a tablet where i would be doing the tablet designated things, especially when seeing someone use the touch. And the desktop mode looks like a good method for it.
I wonder why they went all white white white , and such lame icons for the base operating stuff the work. Then completely reverse that and in the featured programs is is a fully dark scheme. such contrast.
I'm not super fond of the white window decorations and no easy way to change it
But you fixed the white title bar already?
kinda?
There's a way to do it but its messy
08:50
Windoze 10 it isnt Free without a Key :-) cute rhyme i made up from yet another user who cant get past the upgrade install.
@JourneymanGeek I can't find calligraphy community on SE. I remember you discussed fountain pens in chat and though there's community here too.
@Psycogeek I am on Android 4.4.4 and kept ignoring 5.0.1 update all this time. Am I missing a lot?
@Boris_yo i am on 4.1 still. i spent weeks setting up that phone with everything 350 tested to work games, media players, both walking and street maps , scripting so everyting talks and is automated, test test, buttons for all settings, full tech analisis page for discovery. Tossing all that for an upgrade :-) i dont think sooo.
(oh plus it all works 100% and doesnt give google my information)
Cooler features i saw on new android was "windows" yup android has windows and microsoft doesnt :-) the ability to multitask 2 programs at once. The phone had some minor version of that in it called Qslide or something. has zero value on the small screen.
the other great thing that was changing was a new method that would improve speed new library , by optomisation of programs . . . made for it. That doesnt help me unless i re-discover programs (hours and hours) trying to find new ones that are just as good.
and i got the recorder for stereo audio, camera app was primo already, and built-in a remote control for a tv/stereo/cable box too. to bad none of my devices needing remote control :-( are listed in it.
09:17
Hi. I have a quick question that probably doesn't warrant a proper question submission as it may have already been asked but I'm not entirely sure what to search for.
I need to pull specific bits of data (not all) out of csv files and make it into a database format. I'm using Excel as I was told that it's actually fairly decent with databases these days (I hope this is correct).
Here's an example... I formatted it to show the repeating info (the bold titles). The non bold text is the data I need to pull.
The problem is that every file varies in length because there are differing amounts of hazard and precautionary statements so I can't just pull out D39:D48, for example, on every file.
@Psycogeek You tested and optimized everything just for your Android version 4.1? How would upgrading negate any of that?
Android Lollipop:

Fixes a bug with TRIM support, which prevented devices from the nightly on-charger cleanups of file system allocations if the device was turned off while being charged, or if it was charged during the day.
TRIM? I think my Chinese tablet lacks TRIM. It's ridiculously laggin'
Maybe Dalwik cleanup should help?
@Boris_yo: there isn't a FP site as far as I know
Bob
Bob
@marcusdoesstuff uhhh wat
Excel has little to nothing to do with a proper database afaik
What kind of "database format" are you talking about?
What do you actually want to do with it?
Are you talking some SQL database (postgres? mysql? sqlite? mssql? oracle?)?
Are you talking a non-relational database? (some nosql thing? non-indexed flat file on disk? technically xml and csv are valid 'database' formats)
You say you want to "pull" data. Where do you want to put said that?
That'll heavily affect the optimal method.
Excel is suboptimal for doing anything but exporting said data back into csv or its own (xls/xlsx) format.
Basically: you need to be more specific about the input format and the output format.
Once you've figured that out, it can probably be largely done with a shell script, or some quick scraper written in just about any scripting language (python, perl, powershell, bash, whatever)
Also, that does not look like 'proper' csv at all.
csv is primarily for tabular data... that one looks like it'd be better formatted as xml, json, etc, since you have nested data
where do you want to put said data* (typo several lines up)
09:37
one sec haha
@bob I suspect that this data will need to be edited before it can be used regardless but I was planning to get it all into a basic relational database. there are around 500 files so it wouldn't be huge. I've no idea why it looks the way it does. It didn't seem like a normal csv file to me either.
Bob
Bob
@marcusdoesstuff That's a start. Can you decide on an output format?
I know that at the most i will need Access which I can actually use.
Bob
Bob
@marcusdoesstuff Or, can you say why you need to transform the data?
@marcusdoesstuff Ah, there's a step.
(ugh Access... :( )
So you definitely want it to end up in Access?
i know but it's software we already have.
I don't know.
Bob
Bob
:\
@marcusdoesstuff What do you want to do with the data afterwards?
That'll help choose the optimal final format.
09:39
It's also easy for other people I work with to use too.
Bob
Bob
Looks like a MSDS.
Bob
Bob
I'll be frank with you: I don't see an obvious way to store this in a relational data without further knowledge of what you intend to do with it.
i.e. what kind of queries you intend to run on it, etc..
Or, more accurately, there's dozens of different representations of this data that would be useful in different cases.
The most basic is to transform it into some form that supports nested objects like JSON or XML.
sorry slow to type atm.
bear with me :P
(colemak ~_~)
Bob
Bob
If you want it in a relational database, then you need to figure out which fields you might want to query on. And then some of those would be split into different tables.
@marcusdoesstuff Ow.
@marcusdoesstuff Basically, "I want this in a database" doesn't make much sense without knowing how you'll use the database.
09:44
I need to get it into a form where we can pull out specific parts like the hazard info... most importantly the codes, the classification, etc, so we can use it to make a risk score (in combination with contact levels in the workplace etc). we can then work with that score to rank items and see where we can improve safety on (eg, a corrosive that is handled manually every day is high risk... one that is piped is low).
Bob
Bob
If you only ever need to "see MSDS for substance x" then you basically have that already.
If you need to "see substances that cause effect y" then that becomes a bit more difficult.
etc etc
@marcusdoesstuff Ok, that narrows it down a bit.
On the side of that, we need to be able to pull up info from the SDS in simplified form for the situation (as the SDS are mostly red tape garbage).
eg. we have a spill of product x... we can ask it about that and it'll tell us what to do. if it's flammable, don't use metal shovels of turn on light switches etc.
Bob
Bob
@marcusdoesstuff If you always know the substance you want to look up, or you only ever iterate through all substances at once, a relational database isn't too useful.
If you ever want to do the opposite (search for substances that cause X), then relational could be useful.
And could well be overkill for only ~500.
we might want to get a list of oxidisers and flammables perhaps.
you can't always tell
Bob
Bob
Hm.
Well, the first thing you'd need to do then is to figure out which tables should exist and how they'd all link together.
09:50
but mostly it's going to be us selecting a product/raw mat and pulling up info on it.
Bob
Bob
e.g. for the example you gave, you might have:
I did this last week.
Bob
Bob
Oh well there's something :P
@marcusdoesstuff You familiar with scripting in any language?
not really other than basic html/css.
and maybe a few GREP things
Bob
Bob
That... complicates matters.
Bob
Bob
Put simply, Excel has zero idea of anything relational.
Access cheers
@Boris_yo I was told that doing a firmware upgrade would reset settings and delete things? If that isnt true, then could be i should try OTA upgrading it. but that still leaves how do i get it back, without having hooked it up and grabbed what is there, with not so simple processes. Everything works 100% and it has everything i could possibly want. Messing that up would be a disaster. Plus there was some stuff that was very old to begin with, i was lucky still worked at all.
Bob
Bob
IMO your best bet is to grab some external scripting language, learn how to connect it to an Access DB, and use it as a scraper.
My personal preference would be C# (LINQPad), Python or PowerShell, but most languages have some way to connect them to an Access DB, and most languages can perform text scraping.
But you'd have to learn the language and learn SQL...
@marcusdoesstuff Pure regex would be ineffective here.
At the very least you'd have to write a line-by-line parser.
Might be able to use regex to extract info from each line.
it might be best for me to pick one that would be useful in other areas... like java could be handy for web stuff. of python is fairly versatile for stuff i use too.
Bob
Bob
09:59
@marcusdoesstuff I'd recommend transforming everything into JSON or XML first.

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