Root Access

Psycogeek

00:00

@CanadianLuke ahh he just needs a RSS feeds filter, and sort, downloader, with folder sort compare and install :-) piece of cake.

Journeyman Geek

eh

github.com/scrollback/scrollback/issues/412 pretty interesting bug

Psycogeek

sure we dont grunt anymore just gulp :-) aliens i tell ya.

Journeyman Geek

Which dosen't work either

Prolly need to grab an LTS to try

Psycogeek

00:26

you cheated, they havent turned on the Hats yet :-)

Journeyman Geek

;p

DragonLord

@Psycogeek woof woof

Journeyman Geek

If you don't cheat, You arn't trying hard enough. If you get caught, I didn't tell you that ;)

Psycogeek

00:49

What is an average real ram use for Chrome ? would you say more than 250M ? or does a person have to go nuts before it gets there?

superuser.com/questions/844642/… <--- this dude 4gig ram, and talks like a "sudden" slowdown. i look Chrome, First thing I would say is either Get freaking ram, or use a browser that does not utalise it so much?

Ohh it is slow. So i do some quick calculation, Damn straight. Paging to disk or re-getting stuff from disk when paged out, is 100TImes slower than ram. so if a person was paging (been there done that) it sucks terrible.

Seth

I suggest lynx ;P

Psycogeek

If you were driving down the freeway at 100KPH , and your car had to do paging, you might as well get out and walk :-)

If you were using Chrome in said car, to navigate to your destination, it would be better to close chrome, and get out and ask for directions :-)

Bob

@Psycogeek Don't ask me about average browser RAM usage! :P

<=== outlier

Psycogeek

01:06

Oh bob then what is your firefox browser ram usage on average?

Heck even IE when opening all Tabs as seperated processes (crash prevention) can take quite a bit.

Bob

@Psycogeek Range: ~800 MB - 3 GB

It crashes at 3 GB from the 32-bit limit.

On the laptop, it's usually 1-1.5 GB

On the desktop... 1-2.5 GB, but I think there's a graphics driver memory leak.

Psycogeek

oh well that would be a hefty chunk for a 4gig machine sharing ram with the gpu.

Bob

Usually 200-300 tabs, 10-30 active tabs.

@Psycogeek Well, if you're not really doing anything else then it's not too bad.

IIRC Chrome tends to use somewhat more memory than FF. Part of that is the multiprocess overhead.

DragonLord

Starting CyanogenMod for the first time.

Google Apps installed.

Braiam

@Bob uh? Firefox not 64-bit yet?

DragonLord

01:13

First boot will take a while...

@Braiam It's a work in progress, as far as I can tell.

Braiam

Linux already have 64-bit binaries...

DragonLord

@Braiam The big issue is plugin compatibility

They are phasing out the legacy NPAPI, though

Psycogeek

IE is taking about 50megs for each simple web pages/Tab process. 20 tabs would be about 1 gig already. (assuming i can do math, which i cant)

DragonLord

Firefox 33.1.1 on Windows. 26 tabs open in four tab groups, some quite heavy (e.g. Wikia pages). About 660 MB memory usage.

Braiam

01:33

640MB resident, 1959MB Virtual, 329MB in window objects (the actual pages), 738MB explicit

Bob

@Braiam They abandoned 64-bit Windows binaries a while ago. But they're reintroducing them in a few versions.

@DragonLord The use of a separate plugin container process solves that.

Or at least it should be easily able to solve that.

@DragonLord I can't effectively use tab groups... too many tabs :P

Braiam

@Bob apparently it's available wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/win64

Bob

01:52

@Braiam ...how do you figure that?

You just linked to the planning page. Planning.

There's been 64-bit Nightly builds for a while, and both third-party 64-bit builds and first-party 64-bit build-from-source options. But there currently is no first-party pre-built 64-bit release binary available.

Braiam

@Bob err... it says that they are rolling out for Nightly, so there are 64-bits build

Bob

@Braiam There has been Nightly 64-bit builds for years.

But that's Nightly.

As far as I, or anyone sane, is concerned, Nightly is not fit as a primary browser.

When you look for browser native 64-bit support, you look at what the release version supports.

Nightly is basically "if it doesn't work, report a bug. we'll get around to it sometime. oh, you need to use it? tough luck, don't use Nightly"

Of course, serious bugs tend to be fixed fairly quickly, but there's zero stability in Nightly.

Incidentally, the actual tracking bug is here: bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=880004

I've been watching that for a while.

Psycogeek

02:23

well if it leaks like a sieve being allowed to abuse only a few gigs (32bit) would be good :-)

Journeyman Geek

Humans are wierd

io9.com/…

Why would someone throw food into a vat of oil that's on fire?

DragonLord

02:38

@Bob ...or at least give us a 64-bit Firefox Developer Edition...

Bob

03:40

blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2005/06/07/426294.aspx

Bob

03:50

using ContosoInternationalisation.Contoso.IO.Export;
using ContosoInternationalisation.Contoso.IO.Import;
using ContosoInternationalisation.Contoso.IO;
using Newtonsoft.Json.Linq;
using Ookii.Dialogs;
using System;
using System.Collections.Concurrent;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.ComponentModel;
using System.Data;
using System.Drawing;
using System.IO;
using System.Linq;
using System.Runtime.Serialization;
using System.Text;
using System.Threading.Tasks;
using System.Windows.Forms;

ow

Simon Sheehan

@Bob this hurts my brain.

how about using System.* lol. there we go

Although i guess that may not necessarily work... but eh

Bob

@SimonSheehan .NET doesn't work that way.

Those are all namespaces.

Simon Sheehan

@Bob oh I see. Only ever used Java hahaha, just limited experience

Bob

The Java equivalent would have a .* on the end of each of those.

@SimonSheehan Think of a namespace as a package. Kinda.

Simon Sheehan

Right, makes sense.

Bob

03:58

In C#, you don't using individual classes.

Hm. I could actually drop a bunch of those. They're no longer used o.O

Simon Sheehan

Good thing I don't program anymore ;)

Bob

Eh, these are automatically managed by the IDE anyway.

I just happened to scroll up to the top

...

I probably shouldn't click on that at work.

Journeyman Geek

04:21

Its sfw :p

allquixotic

05:07

@Bob where is this from?

Bob

@allquixotic Hot network questions (no pun intended)

@allquixotic Could you let me know how the stylus is on an 8" screen?

allquixotic

05:30

@Bob I don't think it has a stylus. >_>

Bob

@allquixotic ...it should?

VivoTab 8?

Journeyman Geek

hm

Anyone mind ~~laughing~~ helping me with a super simple sed question?

Bob

!!tell 18813340 meta

ChatBot John Cavil

@JourneymanGeek Please don't ask to ask; if you simply ask your actual question, we will help you if we know the answer or can help you find it. This is much faster and simpler than asking if it's OK to ask. As a rule, it is always OK to ask in this channel. Please go ahead.

Bob

;P

In all seriousness: shoot

Journeyman Geek

05:33

I'm working through LFS101x and one of the examples is sed 1,2s/is/are/ test1 for replacing the 'is' in the first two lines with are. If I wanted a continuous range of lines, what would I do?

@DragonLord: The whole point of that was to communicate my embarassment at asking something that silly ;p

DragonLord

Not good with regexes, sorry

Journeyman Geek

AHh

Bob

> addr1,+N
Will match addr1 and the N lines following addr1.

Journeyman Geek

its in the manpage

Bob

Ya.

Journeyman Geek

05:35

ya

Bob

Addresses section.

I don't even have access to man here.

Journeyman Geek

200th line ._.

Bob

Had to look up online manpages :P

On the plus side... browsing in a web browser is much easier than a terminal

Journeyman Geek

yeah, it is

allquixotic

@Bob ASUS VivoTab 8 M81C-B1-MSBK Signature Edition Tablet

Bob

05:47

@allquixotic Yea, should have a stylus. Wacom.

Wait, no.

Wait, what?

o.O

@allquixotic This one has the stylus.

:S

XKCD

They also showed activation in the parts of the brain associated with exposure to dubious study methodology, concern about unremoved piercings, and exasperation with fMRI techs who won't stop talking about Warped Tour.

Bob

So @ahejlsberg tweets TypeScript 5x faster compiler is on GitHub. I suspect causation. GitHub makes your code 5x faster. Anders says so.

Tweeted by haacked on August 1, 2014 at 2:11 AM

Oh wow. Open source .NET Core already has a bunch of accepted pull requests: github.com/dotnet/corefx/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed

O_O

github.com/dotnet/corefx/pull/141

That name seems familiar... stackexchange.com/users/3094403/programfox

allquixotic

06:18

@Bob But a sliiightly worse CPU. lol

Can't win.

Bob

@allquixotic They're close enough that I'd take the stylus :P

But it costs more too.

Hm. Apparently the Z3745 is primarily better in terms of GPU (higher clock).

Bleh.

@allquixotic I think my biggest complaint about touch on Win8 desktop is the lack of hover.

But apart from that the touch detection is remarkably accurate.

Certainly far more accurate than the Android tablets (~7") I've used.

allquixotic

06:56

@Bob I agree, at least from using my Surface Pro

@Bob have you tried using traditional pre-touch desktop applications on your little tab?

Bob

@allquixotic does ff count?

KiTTY?

Spotify and Steam essentially have zero touch support

Journeyman Geek

ugh. I hate quick time events

Bob

07:26

...

@allquixotic I'll be following in your footsteps soon.

Apparently they plan to implement some web filtering next year.

allquixotic

07:43

@Bob stunnel? :P

Bob

@allquixotic Maybe :P

I'll see if I can get an exemption...

allquixotic

ssh in stunnel is a nice substitute for a VPN in a TLS wrapper

Bob

Half my job involves going to a whole bunch of different sites searching :\

allquixotic

a SOCKS5 proxy works for a great many things, especially if you have a proxifier

Journeyman Geek

woof

Bob

07:56

Huh. Pie Faces is closing...

Apparently they're US, AU and SG

Journeyman Geek

08:15

Pie faces?

Ahh. I remember reading about them

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I see a bunch of them around.

Too expensive for me, for a pie :P

Boris_yo

09:03

Anyone with US based billing account?

Erik

09:17

what exactly does ccmrepair do?

Boris_yo

Anyone knows PayPal good enough when it comes to Buyer's Protection?
So I have this local guy who sells 3-year license claiming he has it from friend
but cannot provide me purchase receipt. This seller has 0 reputation on eBay
and tells me there's buyer's protection if in doubt.

Erik

it's still a hassle to get your money back, which in this case, you'll most likely need to...

besides, license for what?

Boris_yo

@Erik If license does not work/if seller cheats.

You know the downside of buyer's protection?

Erik

the downside.... with all these things, is that the burden of evidence lays on you, you do all the paperwork to get your money back

you open a dispute, you might not win

however.... IIRC, last time I bought an item through ebay, using paypal, that didn't arrive

Boris_yo

@Erik Physical item versus digital item... I think there's no guarantee for digital item.

Erik

09:26

I filed a complaint with ebay, and they refunded me, I never dealt with paypal

Boris_yo

@Erik Do you know if license for NOD32 antivirus sold in USA is tied to that country?

Erik

don't kow

know

I would think not, never heard of any software license bound to a country

might be more common than I know of though (?)

are you talking about a personal license?

Boris_yo

@Erik Yes, personal license for 1-year for 1 PC.

Erik

why even pay for antivirus...

for your personal pc?

Boris_yo

Anyway, I need to find someone with PayPal/CC based in US to buy me license and do money transfer to his account prior to that happening.

Erik

09:29

personal personal computer hehe

I mean, if you're a somewhat knowledgeable computer user... do you need antivirus at all?

do you need anything besides windows defender and your firewall?

Boris_yo

@Erik Well, my friend does not have at all but my laptop has sensitive information.

I don't want Avast and other free anivirus. Just NOD32 while opportunity exists.

newegg.com/Product/…

Erik

so are you afraid of information-stealing "virus" ? or afraid of losing data to corruption?

sorry for being an ass, but I don't think antivirus is what you need

Boris_yo

@Erik Both.

@Erik I have been sitting with hungry Norton crappy antivirus that came with my PC and it had ORG-type license. It was updated every day and that what kept me safe.

Erik

ok....

at work we use trend micro officescan

I work in government, defense.... cyber operations

Boris_yo

@Erik How was it? What do you think?

Erik

09:34

I think it's lightweight and non-intrusive (doesn't interrupt my workflow)

Boris_yo

That all antivirus companies colluded and create viruses to fund their existence?

@Erik NOD32 is light and unobtrusive.

Erik

I think one of the major reasons we use it might be easier deployment, more features

which you probably don't care about

Boris_yo

@Erik I care about virus, rootkit and spyware protection. I care about sensitive information protection.

Erik

I think if antivirus companies create a virus it's for research purposes, not to let it lose in the wild....

Journeyman Geek

@Erik: I run an AV ._.

Erik

09:40

so no Boris.... I know potentially bad viruses, trojans, malware, and rootkits exist... I work in cyber warefare unit, offense and defense

but your personal laptop, that's not even as big as a needle in a haystack someone gaining access and stealing your information....

if that happened, it would probably be a targeted op, and then your antivirus would do you no good anyway

also, you should never keep anything too sensitive on a machine connected to the internet

Boris_yo

@Erik You are not willing to buy license on my behalf if I PayPal'ed you amount?

Erik

haha no

why can't you buy it from ebay yourself with your own paypal?

Boris_yo

@Erik eBay is not runnin $5 license promotion. I can't find same promotion on eBay. I don't have address associated with US billing address.

@Erik From free antivirus software like Avast, AVG, Microsoft Security Essentials and others, which would you recommend that could offer protection as close as paid ones and be non-resource intensive?

Hennes

10:43

AVG is non-resource intensive.

Journeyman Geek

11:04

I hardly notice MSSE

Hennes

If you don't stampede other people for home electronics, the terrorists win

Journeyman Geek

also, run limited user accounts

Erik

11:18

@Boris_yo: are you sure you need to keep sensitive information on a computer connected to the internet?

@Boris_yo: do you use encryption?

personally when it comes too sensitive information I prefer other security measures than antivirus

*to

HackToHell

11:41

@Hennes AVG sucks

Hennes

Like a vax ?

Journeyman Geek

lol

Tom Wijsman

12:13

@Boris_yo On/off relationship between Avira and MSE.

Seth

16:22

Who was it that was talking about browsers and RAM?

@Psycogeek I believe.

Well this morning, while working on a friends computer, I caught IE using 1GB of RAM with only one tab open. I took a screenshot to prove it:

Wait, I just realized it's measuring in K..

Now I am confused.

Tom Wijsman

16:57

My Google Chrome is using 1GB, no problem with that.

Oliver Salzburg

19:27

Is the site slow for anyone else right now?

Oliver Salzburg

21:47

Okay...

Tim Timmy

22:30

Hi

Oliver Salzburg

@TimTimmy Hi

DragonLord

22:57

Installed CyanogenMod on my 2012 Nexus 7 last night

Oliver Salzburg

@DragonLord How did it go?

DragonLord

Pretty good

Had to reinstall a bunch of apps

I've restored most of my personal files, and Chrome's history was retrieved from the cloud

I've gotten email working as well

reddit.com/r/Nexus7/comments/2nmcuq/…

I'm using ClockworkMod Touch recovery

loosebruce

I did the same on my Xperia Z, very impressed with CM11. It has brought new life to my phone

DragonLord

I've written a couple of simple Windows batch scripts to easily send and retrieve NANDroid backups in recovery mode using ADB

loosebruce

Ooh that might come in handy if I mess up an update later, mind Gisting it ?

DragonLord

23:03

You still need to perform the backups themselves in the recovery

Hang on...

The scripts just move data from and to the device, using the ADB on the computer and the ADB included in the recovery image

They're intended to be placed in the platform-tools directory of the SDK

This one pulls the backups:

adb pull /data/media/clockworkmod clockworkmod
adb kill-server
pause

...and this one pushes the backups onto the device

if not exist clockworkmod (
    exit
)
adb push clockworkmod /data/media/clockworkmod
adb kill-server
pause

You can just make a minor change to put the backups in a different directory:

adb pull /data/media/clockworkmod ..\nandroid
adb kill-server
pause

Restore with:

if not exist ..\nandroid (
    exit
)
adb push ..\nandroid /data/media/clockworkmod
adb kill-server
pause

loosebruce

Cool

DragonLord

To use these scripts, though, you must mount /data first in the recovery

Taking or restoring a backup inside CWM will automatically do this

Bob

23:21

Eh. I'd rather use a MicroSD card.

Helps when the device actually supports MicroSD, though.

DragonLord

I have to do this because the Nexus 7 has no memory card slot

Bob

Ya.

Google's rather overzealous about their cloud bullshit.

DragonLord

It's a lot easier to do this with my mom's Nook HD, which has a microSD slot

Bob

Doesn't help much with poor connectivity, or when you need to perform recovery operations.

DragonLord

I bought a refurbished Nook HD on behalf of my mom and immediately installed CM10 on it

It was fun, and she likes it

My mom's not the most tech-savvy person, so she won't understand all this Android modding stuff

The idea was to get a cheap, but decent, tablet and still get a decent Android experience that is close to stock yet more advanced in many ways

@Bob These scripts are the best I can do when my device has no memory expansion

I bought the 32GB version for a reason

CM has definitely brought new life into an old tablet

Bob

23:27

@DragonLord When comparing Android and Windows tablets now, I see no reason to get the former.

DragonLord

I call them pull-nandroid.bat and push-nandroid.bat

Bob

The prices are pretty close now, and the latter are far more capable AFAICT.

DragonLord

@Bob I wonder how easy or hard it is to access and change the UEFI settings on these Windows tablets...

Bob

@DragonLord Depends. The cheaper ones are just as locked as Android tablets, if not moreso.

The higher end ones can at least boot off USB.

Some of the cheaper ones might be able to, not sure.

But changing the actual boot settings permanently can be difficult.

A lot of it is the lack of effort put into breaking in. The Windows tablet modding community isn't nearly as large as the Android one, though I suspect that's mostly because you don't need to mod it to gain full control.

(I'm completely ignoring RT in this. RT is probably more restrictive than Android - and there are a couple root exploits for it...)

DragonLord

@Bob Android is open by design. Windows RT is locked down like iOS.

Bob

23:32

@DragonLord Not quite. AOSP is open-source, but the OS itself as implemented on most devices is not open to the user.

DragonLord

@Bob Depends on device manufacturer.

Bob

Access to the source code doesn't mean a running version of it is open.

DragonLord

Google Nexus devices are generally the most open.

Bob

@DragonLord The vast majority lock it down.

Nexus devices are pretty much the only common ones that are open.

DragonLord

Older Motorola devices were notorious for being very closed, although things have improved

Bob

23:33

(If we define "open" as making it easy for the user to poke around in internals ["root" privs] and change the OS [unlocked bootloader].)

@DragonLord Samsung, HTC and Sony are the most popular (outside of Nexus), and they're all locked.

I'm not that familiar with Motorola, but IIRC @allquixotic's recent devices were locked. Though that might be mostly Verizon, rather than Moto.

DragonLord

@Bob Carrier plays a big role, too.

T-Mobile is probably the friendliest to device modding

As an example, the T-Mobile version of the LG G3 has a factory unlocked bootloader, all other carriers lock it down

Journeyman Geek

HTC and moto are locked but often trivial to unlock

Bob

As I see it, the current openness of tablets (as in how much the user is allowed to do by default) goes something like Win8 > Android > iOS/WinRT

Nexus Android tablets are even with Win8.

Maybe better since not all Win8 bootloaders are accessible.

@JourneymanGeek If it involves voiding a warranty, trivial != 'open'

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: With HTC it did void the warranty, but it was an 'official' method

DragonLord

@JourneymanGeek Same goes for newer Motorola devices

Bob

23:40

I like that Win8 tablet warranties are hardware-only. Well, the ones I've seen.

DragonLord

(Unless locked down by the carrier)

Bob

Really don't like warranties attached to the device software/firmware such that they become void even for unrelated hardware failures if the software is modded.

loosebruce

I have a Motorola Droid Razr with HDMI + USB. Apparently you can make it function as a Linux machine.

Bob

Urgh... I need to clean my keyboard

@DragonLord I don't even consider Motorola much - they're too US-centric.

They're basically nonexistent outside the US.

(changing a bit with the G and E, but those are far from flagships)

Here, it's all Samsung, Nexus, HTC, Sony... some Huawei too.

DragonLord

I'd rather buy a device carrier-unlocked and pick either AT&T or T-Mobile

No worrying about carrier restrictions, because the device is yours, not the carrier's

Expensive, yes, but worth it

Bob

23:43

I buy all my devices unlocked (as in, not carrier-locked).

But the manufacturer still imposes many restrictions.

DragonLord

Nexus is first choice, but that Nexus 6 is expensive

Not sure if I have $700 to drop on a phone

I don't even have a smartphone right now, and I want to move to T-Mobile to get my first one

Problem is, T-Mobile service is poor at my college campus

Hopefully, they'll refresh the Nexus 5

Bob

A 2013 Nexus 7 is $340 O_O

That's considerably more than a modern 7-8" Win8 tablet. As in, double.

Hm.

I can't find cheaper.

staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/…

DragonLord

Australia electronics prices are a good deal higher than they are in the US.

Even after you consider the exchange rate.

Bob

@DragonLord Pretty much.

Journeyman Geek

ALso the nexuses are a lot cheaper in the US for some reason than elsewhere

DragonLord

23:49

Is there some VAT involved?

Bob

@DragonLord GST is 10%.

But even that doesn't account for the price difference.

But this seems to apply far more to Android devices than anything else.

DragonLord

@Bob After doing the math, this seems to be a 15% or so premium over the US price

That's really not fair

Bob

@DragonLord I can't even find the 16 GB one anywhere :\

Perhaps it was cheaper direct from Google, but they no longer sell it.

@DragonLord Ah, here's better pricing: saveonit.com.au/index.php?url=products/productdetails/65116277

Probably a grey import though.

Here's one of the bigger stores: dicksmith.com.au/asus-nexus-7-tablet-16gb-dsau-ta7006 :P

Transcript for