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00:00
well, when they define layers as you know they mean like fields and within them fields.. DNS doesn't carry HTTP.. nor does HTTP carry DNS.. So they're same layer.
yeah bad example there; but basically SMTP wouldn't be anything useful without DNS, so if nothing else SMTP depends on DNS (unless you're just sending email within a LAN)
most mail servers will let you send email on 10.0.0.0/8 or 192.168.0.0/16 (or the other one I always forget)
172.blahblah
/xy ;-)
so you could send from [email protected] to [email protected] and it'd just pass through the router and directly interface with the remote mail server... like a simple client-server protocol like telnet
@allquixotic: or switch to using the 4 layer model ;p
@JourneymanGeek huh, we do really..
the 7 layer model is just a reference model
for terminology..
it wasn't really implemented and just got used as a model rather than architecture
00:04
my favorite protocol is TLS :P stunnel is just totally awesome devil's magic (I understand it, but it's still magic)
now with that you get layer within a layer.. at level 7
do you think TLS is more magical than SSH?
heh, I see actually they put TLS between transport and application technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc781476(v=ws.10).aspx makes sense
not sure what they'd make of ssh then though 'cos it has its own application, as well as tunneling
I have never done an in-depth analysis of the differences between TLS and SSH in terms of their capabilities, supported ciphers, security, etc... though I generally prefer TLS with client-side certs, PFS, and mutual verification (client verifies server and vice versa)
it provides a neat type of authentication too if you make both sides verify a specific certificate, not just any old one signed by the CA
I thought keys were pretty secure.. i'm not that familiar with certificates
with ssh and keys, both sides verify each other
keys are the private side of certificates
certificates are like public keys
you can post your certificates online; no harm done... but never ever leak your private key ;p
I wonder when we'll hear the news story of somebody threatened with a knife, or tortured, for their private key.. probably never!
(along with the passphrase on the private key)
imagine that story.. Man threatened at knife point to hand over his private key, but thief neglected to ask him for the passphrase
00:26
@barlop: assuming you have your private key on you
yes i've actually seen that one
Yeah, its the obligatory xkcd for the topic (tm)
01:07
Out of curiosity: How many of you find exposed PCBs scary?
...as in those found in disassembled electronics that are not meant to be handled by the user, and not necessarily things like video cards and memory modules intended for end-user installation
01:32
@DragonLord I don't find them scary, but I certainly treat them gently
@DragonLord I work with them everyday... Sometimes I find them scary.
now. if I am faced with the prospect of needing to come into close proximity or touch a PCB when it's powered up, I find that slightly unnerving
Like if I accidentally brick a $1500 Image Control Board for a $25000 scanner...
powered down, no scary at all
This is what the insides of a cheap USB charger looks like
The big green thing is a low-grade (only 2000 mAh) 18650 cell
It's a Sony CP-ELS portable USB power supply
That's the other side of the PCB. The biggest chip on the board is a Holtek HT66FB40 microcontroller.
01:47
That soldering on the left looks terrible.
Yeah, they didn't do a good job cleaning up the flux
01:58
@DragonLord it always strikes me as fascinating that most of the devices we use today constantly rely upon microcontrollers and other such invisible, embedded ICs that perform important functions, faithfully, and usually are not the cause of product failure
in that case, the battery cell will wear out long before that IC will give up the ghost
when I got my first computer at 6 (more like when my parents got it and I started to experiment with it), you needed either a cluster of computers, or an extremely expensive ($15k+) machine to get the kind of MIPS that little Holtek microcontroller is capable of
and my smartphone's SoC would exceed the processing power of entire state-of-the-art research facilities of the time
02:43
@allquixotic, it never ceases to amaze me how much technology has advanced over the years
15 years ago, a 3.5-inch desktop hard drive could store around 10-15 GB of data
Today, you can get almost 200 times that amount of space in a device that fits in the palm of your hand
...or a device with about 50-100 times as much storage in the same or even smaller form factor but is capable of tens of thousands of times faster random I/O
...and over a thousand times faster than even today's hard drives
03:03
@allquixotic: Modern keyboards probably have more processing power than some early-modern computers ;p
And they use it for... controlling shiny stuff mainly
My gaming mouse has a 72 MHz ARM Cortex-M3 microcontroller onboard
@DragonLord: sadly, my kone XTD died, and its replacement also died
Haven't had an issue with mine so far.
I must have shitty luck, it was a great mouse
It's gotten fairly intensive use for both productivity and gaming
How long did you have them for?
I would not hesitate to go to the local Best Buy to buy a replacement if my Kone XTD failed
03:11
erm. First one was DOA
second one was probably 6 months or so.
I've currently got a razer taipan, which is fine, but a little small for my liking
I've had a few button-related issues with the Kone XTD--within two months, Newegg replaced the first unit, and Roccat replaced the second one under warranty
The third one has been working just fine and I haven't had any major issues after more than a year of continuous use
I'll probably wait a few years, see what people say and decide if I want to give whatever replaces the XTD a chance ;p
Not fond of the cloud-based Razer Synapse software
Roccat's drivers, on the other hand, are excellent
They are, but I need synapse anyway
I love my old blackwidow
even if someday I am handing it down to my nephew ;p
(Little feller kept hugging it ;p)
I'm also using a Roccat Isku keyboard alongside my Kone XTD—the two work well together
Not mechanical, but far better than my laptop's built-in keyboard
03:23
eheh
I'll never use a non mechanical, wired keyboard again.
(I have a wireless keyboard/mouse combo but its for the server)
This should give you an idea of what my setup looks like at home
dat colour balance
Yeah, I've done my best to reduce the difference
Mine's pretty nutty
03:31
I just don't have the color calibration equipment
Cameras are particularly sensitive to these differences
Yea, mine are pretty bad as well.
12.5 inch laptop, 10 inch screen for the linux box, 20 inch screen for the main windows box
The Acer external display is IPS, while the laptop's built-in display is (probably) SVA. The backlighting quality is probably better on the laptop display ;p
the linux box and main system share a keyboard/mouse
If you're curious, the desktop background is a picture of a Great Egret at a park near where I live
03:50
On to another topic: computer chess.
I'm not a huge chess player, but it's amazing how much chess engines have advanced over the years and especially the last 18 or so months.
The open-source Stockfish, in particular, recently reached the top of the chess engine rankings.
Although new versions of commercial engines are now almost just as powerful, the key to this success is a distributed testing framework where computers play tens of thousands of games to validate each patch
Unlike most chess engines (even other open-source ones), which are developed by a few people, Stockfish accepts contributions from the community and the core developers are able to quickly determine whether a patch improves playing strength
Anyone can contribute their CPU time to the Fishtest testing framework, just like BOINC projects and Folding@home.
It's truly a revolutionary development in computer chess technology and it exemplifies the advantages of the open-source model.
The testing framework is especially busy lately because a major computer chess tournament is currently in progress (engines can be updated between stages, and the Stockfish team submits the latest validated nightly build for each stage)
Just goes to show how open-source is often better.
04:17
@JourneymanGeek?
@user285oo6 Hi
i don't get the diff between a 32 bit and a 64 bit
os
i know some which are mentioned
like improved speed
security
04:30
basically, all modern x86 systems are 64 bit, but 32 bit compatible.
if in doubt, go 64 bit ;p
@DragonLord ? what? :p
@user285oo6 I think max ram is the biggest thing most people notice.
@JourneymanGeek Just wondering if anyone here was interested in computer chess.
i wanted to know how can i implement those advanced security features
thanks for your reply
oh, just grab emet
04:47
@JourneymanGeek I am using 64 bit windows 7 ultimate but feel i am not using it to its max(i.e. the vitual drive mount etc.)
mine is a 4 GB RAM so i paired it with a 64 bit Win 7 as it will support the speed but what i want is how can i implement those features like virtual disk management,
05:05
I've been thinking about the whole mass surveillance scandal
Would we still be alive without these programs?
Is user privacy really worth it?
While I'm not paranoid with respect to privacy or security, I do believe that everyone deserves a reasonable expectation of privacy.
However, the NSA alleges that it needs the data it collects to maintain national security.
This brings up the question: would full privacy of Internet communications ultimately get us killed by terrorists?
no i don't think so
full privacy would meant complete secracy
although full privacy comes with a huge investments and to achieve it you must be ready to pay for it
As no information is getting leaked there's no scope of getting killed or something by anyone
The idea is that if terrorists were able to plan attacks in complete secrecy, the attack would be completed without anybody being able to stop it
@DragonLord your questions seems odd, is it full privacy leading to killing or is it getting tracked by someone would lead to getting killed
the technology has improved a lot which is always been utilised for the bad more then for good use
i.e. for bad cause the technology is heavily utilised and for the good cause the technology takes time to be utilised
05:46
@DragonLord yes
on the other hand, in the wrong hands, pervasive surveillance can cost lives
@user285oo6 VHD mount's available on 32 bit too. You can find it in the disk management mmc
06:03
anandtech.com/show/8558/… USB type C seems quite cool. One cable for almost everything ;p
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek That's what they always say.
I'm a bit worried by the apparent fragility though.
@Bob: almost
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek It doesn't look as sturdy as traditional USB.
@Bob: Its bigger microusb pretty much
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek And we all know how those fare when someone trips over one :P
Then there's going to be a ton of shitty cables that won't really work.
06:12
;p
Yeah
Bob
Bob
And actually good cables, if you can filter them out from the mess, will cost a small fortune.
But I've had that with standard USB type A too
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Yea, but traditional USB has been somewhat more forgiving. As soon as you try to do more with it, you also need more from the hardware.
06:28
Unrelatedly....
user image
2
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Can they even see their deleted answers?
I have no idea ;p
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Next Q:
1
Q: How do I use an API?

William David EdwardsI need to use an API. I want to do the programming in PHP, but I have no idea where to start. I contacted the creator of the API asking how should I use API's in general? and he sent a link to the GitHub repository of someone who made a 'wrapper' for the API. What's a wrapper? And how do I ...

@allquixotic O_O Telstra?
@allquixotic That... doesn't sound right.
SMTP doesn't care if you started with a domain name or not.
You need the IP of the SMTP server, and you need a destination mailbox.
That's all.
Heck, the dest. mailbox might be optional.
DNS is only involved if you send an email to a domain, in which case a DNS lookup is performed to look for the MX record associated with the domain for the correct mail host. If there is no MX record, it falls back to the A record anyway.
@Bob: the protocol dosen't, the server might
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek The server has no way of knowing.
You connect to an ip:port (socket). No domain mentioned.
06:42
@Bob: mail reaches server. Server looks at where to delivers it. Dosen't find it...
Bob
Bob
The only place the domain would come in is as part of the address, which the server will use to find the destination mailbox.
Then that would just be an incorrect address, and has nothing to do with it being a domain or IP or random string of characters.
(incidentally, I suspect a lot of mailservers will accept anything sent to postmaster anyway)
o.O
not sure if legit
That makes more sense
USB for power
 
2 hours later…
 
3 hours later…
11:45
Hmm. Gotham wasn't bad
12:18
!! s/o/ow/
@allquixotic Hmm. Gowtham wasn't bad (source)
!!tell 17806531 define example
@Bob example Something that is representative of all such things in a group.
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Just a weird choice :P
huh. PayPal Select finally decides to give me something that's not totally irrelevant
for months I get spammed with "$10 off <women's lingerie store>" etc.
suddenly: $10 off a $50+ purchase at Newegg
Bob
Bob
12:25
lol
Newegg. Now that's what I'm talking about!
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Are you sure you don't want women's lingerie?
@ChatBotJohnCavil no, sometimes he's terrible :p
@ChatBotJohnCavil ?
@Bob Only if it's being worn by a woman
If the lingerie comes with a woman, that'll work, too
Isn't there, like, a $500 surcharge for those?
Probably not worth it. I can spend that money better on a Chevy Volt or a Surface Pro 4 or a Galaxy Note Edge.
Bob
Bob
12:28
lol
Downpayments of even small amounts make a huuuuge difference in monthly fee for cars! @___@
I was playing around with numbers, and OMG, if you put down a decent chunk, the monthly fee is almost affordable! :P
25
Q: Why is there really only one basic design for passenger airplanes?

olliSo when I look around on the airport, I don't really see many differently shaped airplanes. They all look pretty much the same, only subtle differences. Why is this design so common? Why don't we have more extravagant designs? Or am I not looking closely enough to appreciate the differences...

me likey this question (and the answers)
13:05
@allquixotic: and the pesky need for windows ;p
-_______- @Bob Koss today unleashed their own original brand of bluetooth headphones. the physical design looks fine/good, but 8 hours of runtime on the battery. lulz
this is why I hate Koss
13:24
anyone see this one today? superuser.com/questions/378082/…
why might Realtek want to provide disabling front jack detection as an option?
@root if it were buggy and had some kind of a problem, you'd want to disable it to avoid the consequences of the bug
jack detection just lets the software take some action when it detects (or thinks it detects) something plugged into an analog jack (digital protocols usually have explicit protocol-driven detection)
IIRC there's also an option somewhere to have seperate audio streams on either
you mean separate channels?
2
A: How to connect my front audio panel?

Lucio PaivaMy motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3 and I was having the same problem of Realtek HD Audio Manager not detecting speakers in the front panel. After trying all kinds of solutions and reading the MB's manual dozens of times, I found out it was simply a matter of checking a checkbox! Double-clic...

> If you still have no sound, maybe this more technical answer could enlighten you.
with a link to @Bob's answer
15
A: HD Audio or AC97 connector - Which to use when, and what's the difference?

BobThe correct one to use depends on your case. Those cables are typically used to connect front panel headphone/microphone ports. While the connectors may look identical, the pinouts are different and not really interchangeable. The matching connector on your case should be labelled accordingly, I ...

13:34
;p
Gee, that question looks familiar ;p
a blast from the past ;)
@allquix
@allquixotic makes sense, thanks
@root: Oh, since I asked that question, I think I've changed everything in that specific system
if the panels "detect" something non-existent, I'd want the option to disable it.
@JourneymanGeek "but she's still got the ol' floppy"
13:44
Twitter just asked me if I know "ASUS North America" as if it were a person
that's creepy
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Heh.
No, Twitter, I've never met ASUS North America. I bought some of the products he makes on Amazon (or is it a she?) but we have never been formally introduced. Where can I go to meet Mr(s). America?
Bob
Bob
This was the subject of an email I got:
> Do you know Hamish & Andy, Kevin Rudd and Dave Hughes on Twitter?
Sure, I know the (former) prime minister...
insert Simpsons video
that's almost as good as the emails I get "from" Barack Obama
probability of Mr. Obama actually authoring the text of those emails, much less being aware that it's being sent specifically to me? 0%
oddly enough, while corporations have been getting closer to being human beings, certain human beings have been getting closer to being corporations
the idea or concept or personality of Barack Obama, controlled and groomed and developed by a team of hundreds, writes me emails... they might as well be from the human being of the same name.
@root no. :p
Ash
Ash
13:59
hi :)
@Ash I'm pretty sure Ash is a wauzer, not a snow wolf (or whatever your gravatar is).... :P
cc @JourneymanWoof
Ash
Ash
@allquixotic :) I thought Ash was a Terrier all along..
@Ash: Ash is half white schnauzer, half ???
Ash
Ash
@JourneymanGeek err.. I dont know..
14:08
Neither do we ;p
silly mutt.
(which is odd. We think he was an accident ;p)
@JourneymanGeek his parents created a lazysitting monster!
sudo yum u
.....
someone's shell-typing
also
> Ask Ubuntu ♦
> yum
!!meme okay
oh crap. so that's where the command went. O_o
@allquixotic i've been on fedora for a year now :p
@jokerdino I'd be 100% CentOS 7 on my server, if they had a decent container virt solution that was fully isolated
So, what do you use?
smartos (which is a solaris fork)
that's not linux, is it?
14:22
@jokerdino no, not at all
my dedi runs SmartOS on the host, and most of the guests are Solaris Zones, which are completely isolated virtual machines but instead of a hypervisor, the guests use the actual host kernel
so only one Solaris kernel is running on the system -- but, due to PhantomJS build problems on SmartOS, I had to install Cavil into a CentOS 7 hypervised guest (on top of KVM)
lol.
It's like I'm reading Spanish.
Bob
Bob
...cue @allquixotic talking in Spanish
@jokerdino original "UNIX" (from AT&T) birthed System V Release 4 ("System Five Release Four", abbreviated SVR4), which birthed Solaris -- a UNIX-based OS developed by Sun Microsystems -- which later birthed OpenSolaris, an open source release of Solaris -- which later birthed Illumos, a fork of OpenSolaris after Oracle dropped upstream OpenSolaris -- which later birthed SmartOS, a fork of Illumos with a NetBSD userspace.
understand now? :)
Su gato lleva un pantalón que están en llama
so basically I'm using real UNIX, just a heavily hacked version of it ;p
14:27
@allquixotic nah, i'm looking up hypervisor and KVM.
Kernel Virtual Machine, not Keyboard-Video-Mouse switch
KVM is the 'native' virtualisation on linux
its great - I have it installed on Phoebe, and its pretty fast
the folks behind SmartOS ported KVM to the Solaris kernel.
@JourneymanGeek "your cat ... a pant that ... in llama"
14:29
your cat wears a pant (?) that is on a call (or inside a llama...???)
I think it says something like "Your cat is wearing pants that on fire"
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek I always have to reread when you say that :P
KVM also does awesome things like PCIe passthrough
I don't think it does that on Solaris, but then that kind of feature is not the type of thing anyone running SmartOS cares about
@allquixotic: there's very little situations that call for it ;p
14:31
SmartOS never pretended to be a desktop distro; it works exclusively on headless dedicated servers
@allquixotic: the idea there is you can run a desktop VM with a physical graphics card dedicated to it
and the fun part is that whenever my hosting provider (OVH) updates the global zone with a newer kernel, all I have to do is reboot the physical OS and I've got an upgraded global zone :D
one of the best things about Solaris is that it properly prevents you from mucking things up, especially in the global zone (the host OS), by making most of userspace read-only
keeps things nice and stable when you can't install junk into the host
Hey, all these speaks are sysadmin-y right?
the global zone gets loaded over PXE from a centralized server on the OVH LAN
@jokerdino right
if I were chatting in The Comms Room, everyone would know exactly what I'm talking about
@allquixotic: is your whole 'root' filesystem booted off of pxe?
14:34
So, I don't have to pretend I understand what y'all are saying.
my "problem" is that my interests and expertise straddle The Comms Room, RA, and chat.stackoverflow.com almost equally
@JourneymanGeek the root filesystem is on the persistent RAID array, but the global zone's userspace and kernel is "injected" off of PXE
the PXE-loaded OS then finds and mounts the root filesystem
actually let me correct that
the entire global zone's OS is loaded into physical RAM and stays there for the duration of the boot's existence
it's small, so that's not a real problem
think of it like VMware ESXi in its design, except that you can SSH into it, rather than being stuck with a web interface
the core OS is super small though
but once you create a guest zone, you have access to the entire pkgsrc of packages
as I found ;p
how are you liking your VM that I made for you? done anything in there?
I rebooted my own guest zone over the weekend, but not the host, so puppy never went down
14:38
@allquixotic: I need to move my IRC bouncer over at some point ;p
@JourneymanGeek :)
and oh, would running an IRC server on it be acceptable?
lemme know if you need compile help
Oh, there's a up to date package
Bob's VM blocked the IRC ports, aye Bob?
14:39
@jokerdino: @allquixotic's server's a dedi ;p
@JourneymanGeek as long as potential security holes are disabled, like CTCP
Wait, that wasn't a VM. More like VPS.
but IRC servers have a bad rep
@allquixotic: 0_0
better yet, make TLS mandatory ;D
ctcp is a security hole?
14:40
@JourneymanGeek it can crash certain clients, so yes. I mean, unless the clients are extremely well safeguarded
direct access to a user by IP is kind of a dangerous thingy
lol. Some of the places I hang out in probably would do that if we didn't have a suprisingly high number of non technical folk on em
fuck em, I say :P
care about security or go home
14:41
for a cert, I can either give you my wildcard cert for my domain, or you can get one free from startcom
IRC cert can be self signed IMO
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic You do know that it's possible to SSH into ESXi? :P
I'm still toying with this, the IRC server I'm most familiar with is pretty much abandoned
(unreal)
Bob
Bob
@jokerdino ...huh?
@Bob technically it is, but it's so limited as to what you can do in there....
Bob
Bob
14:43
I have half a dozen VPSes and a dedi.
nothing as awesome as vmadm
Bob
Bob
Some allow IRC, some don't.
@Bob yeah, didn't edit that particular message. See the next one.
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Wasn't it based on RHEL?
@Bob last I heard, yeah -- it was RHEL5 minus about 90% of the userspace
ancient kernel ftw
!! s/w/l/
14:44
@allquixotic ancient kernel ftl (source)
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Required for file download, though.
RHEL 5 on Linux 2.6?
RHEL5 uses Linux 2.6.18
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic @JourneymanGeek: takes wildcard cert and MitMs @allquixotic's connection
:P
@Bob noooooooo!!!! D:
14:45
@Bob: technically I'm running it on his server so...
at least you won't be able to get my previous ssh traffic thanks to PFS
fortunately, guest isolation is good enough in Solaris Zones that you can't sniff traffic in my guest or the host, even with root privs in a guest
and OVH's LAN security seems to be up to snuff too
getting my private key is the easy part; actually performing a MITM is much harder
@allquixotic definitely ancient to the desktop's 3.16
@jokerdino or CentOS 7 / RHEL7's 3.10 (with patches from 3.11 / 3.12)
Just noticed even RHEL6 uses 2.6.*
2.6.18 (RHEL5) is pathetically ancient; 2.6.32 (RHEL6) is very old; 3.10 (RHEL7) is quite modern still
however, the latest patched RHEL versions of those kernels contain a surprising amount of backports of stuff
Bob
Bob
14:48
@allquixotic Oh yea, I recently learned that linux-vserver allows different sysctl values on guests
has to be set via the host though
@jokerdino don't be fooled by the 2.6 / 3.0 split though
the 3.0 declaration was merely a formality, not an indication of an ABI break or any major change
the delta between the last version of 2.6.x and the first version of 3.x was extremely, extremely minor, incremental stuff
yeah, i know.
I actually read that particular announcement on the mailing list
honestly, for most stuff, the advancements in the kernel have been fairly minor and incremental outside of the areas of virtualization, graphics drivers, network drivers, and filesystems
if you have problems (performance, bugs, features, etc) in those areas, you need a new kernel; otherwise, no
since the mid-2.6 era, the rest of the kernel hasn't dramatically changed "across the board" perf very much
Bob
Bob
Security?
@allquixotic: RHEL is old on purpose ;p
Its designed for stability, not shiny
14:52
hmm. maybe I could try running OpenVZ on top of CentOS 6 as my physical host (ugh @ not using the latest stuff -___-) and make my guests all CentOS 7 VZ containers, since CentOS 7 is supported in CTs on CentOS 6
that would at least get me back on a Linux kernel (though, do I really need that?)
it just seems so fucking untidy to have a bunch of Solaris Zones, and then Cavil's KVM Linux guest sticking out like a sore thumb
I'm OCD, leave me alone
Bob
Bob
Heh.
I'll be happy when I can find the time and effort to retire my hacked-together vserver setup :P
I'll be happy when I can find the time and effort to retire my Hetzner box
Bob
Bob
Ouch. Still paying for that?
Bob
Bob
Also, I desperately need proper backups and RAID on my server.
Bleh.
14:55
I need to either get up the courage to dump my VM images from the ancient servers of generations past, or pilfer through them and get what I need
Bob
Bob
And monitoring tools. And everything else.
Bleh. Blah! Server problems! Effort! Argh!
I need to switch over to myrepublic in a few years ;p
and self host everything again
Maybe I can pay someone to look through all my illicit images and video data and pull out "the needful"
brings a new meaning to "do the needful"
Bob
Bob
@jokerdino Wait, do you mean the one you were using? And they actually blocked ports? O_O

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