Root Access

That Brazilian Guy

17:01

@HackToHell BananaBread, a 3D FPS game, is also "basically some JS", and yet it makes my machine halts to a crawl. I get 3 fps on it.

Malachi

@Bob they really only need it to display one page and nothing else, they would do an initial setup and run that everyday, the queries on the site do the rest on the server side, the JavaScript does the scrolling on the client side, it really is going to be almost a headless thing, other than the head that shows the information, there won't be any input and no output except for the site

Bob

@Malachi "headless other than the head" I like it :P

rlemon

o/

how's Root Access today?

allquixotic

@ThatBrazilianGuy WebGL is inefficient

rlemon

@allquixotic lies!

allquixotic

17:16

@rlemon what's on your mind today, grain brain?

Bob

@HackToHell hm. pretty fun :P

jokerdino

@Bob join the Singapore server

allquixotic

@rlemon I guess it depends on your OS, graphics driver and web browser, but by and large it's hard to find WebGL implementations that can display modern 3d games at reasonable FPS

jokerdino

I play as MBB

Bob

@jokerdino I was on it a min ago

"some ball 6" followed by "some ball 4"

heh.

allquixotic

17:17

@jokerdino are those your initials?

jokerdino

nah

rlemon

umm, well I knew you would know so I came here :P situation: the client issues an ssh command to create a tunnel with the server. then I kill the clients network connection. The server appropriately times out and kills the connection however the client keeps the ssh proc running. is there any way (with maybe some magical flags) I can have that kill itself once there is no network connection?

@allquixotic eh, I'm just fan boying. I haven't gotten into webgl yet.

stuck trying to improve my Canvas stuff.

Bob

@rlemon IIRC ssh will exit once it fails to send something.

rlemon

@Bob my testing says otherwise.

Bob

That's after a number of retries.

@rlemon Well, it has to actually attempt to send something first.

If you don't send anything, it stays open indefinitely.

jokerdino

17:18

@Bob oh right

rlemon

well how can I change that :P

the 'client' is responsive to websocket commands from the server

allquixotic

@rlemon did you already try the client-side timeout setting that I mentioned to you a couple weeks ago?

rlemon

actually wait, it should be sending a heartbeat via websockets.

@allquixotic nope, because I forgot what the flag was remotely called

google failed me

I came here

allquixotic

linux.die.net/man/1/ssh

Bob

@rlemon Hm. I'm not sure how tunnels behave though.

allquixotic

17:20

docs for the options are here: openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=ssh_config&sektion=5

Bob

@rlemon man ssh? :P

RT[F]M

HackToHell

@jokerdino I'm going to sleep

jokerdino

@HackToHell nighters

HackToHell

@bob we will play later :P

rlemon

@Bob pft. fancy pants.

why read docs when they can be spoon fed to me from @allquixotic ??

allquixotic

17:20

ServerAliveInterval and ServerAliveCountMax are the heartbeat functionality from the client to the server

Bob

@jokerdino @HackToHell lemme know next time? :)

HackToHell

yo @rlemon bye :P

rlemon

@HackToHell o/

Bob

@allquixotic And you can specify them with -o for a single connection.

jokerdino

@Bob i am still playing

Bob

17:21

@jokerdino ya, but I won't have time for a bit

probably not tonight

jokerdino

@Bob yeah okay

tomorrow? :D

allquixotic

@Bob yep, pretty sure he already knows this -- he and I have been around the block approximately 10^10^100 times about this particular problem already

Bob

@jokerdino thanks!

@jokerdino probably

jokerdino

cya man

rlemon

Listen okay. I write c# and Javascript. you can't expect me to actually be intelligent.

allquixotic

17:22

resourcefulness and intelligence are two completely separate things

Bob

O_O

SSH-BASED VIRTUAL PRIVATE NETWORKS
     ssh contains support for Virtual Private Network (VPN) tunnelling using
     the tun(4) network pseudo-device, allowing two networks to be joined
     securely.

allquixotic

I don't consider myself especially intelligent, but I'm very resourceful

rlemon

I'm resourceful for anything non-networking related

Bob

SSH can do VPNs?!?!

rlemon

I think there is a part of my brain that blocks out that information

come to the JS room and ask for JS help

I'll totes be the king of that discussion :P

allquixotic

17:24

@rlemon I randomly got two awesome crash course training sessions on networking from work :P before that I didn't know half of what I know about it now

Bob

That reminds me.

allquixotic

one from a 2-week internship (which led to a full-time job) with a really knowledgable coworker, and one from a week-long training session related to a performance engineering software we bought

rlemon

I should look for some nice online courses.

Bob

@allquixotic d'you think it would be a good idea to add a manpages lookup on Cavil?

rlemon

work will pay for them, so why not.

allquixotic

17:25

@Bob ridiculously good idea

rlemon

@Bob yes!

Caprica has MDN lookups :P

allquixotic

best cavil idea this year

that needs to get done. and it's ESPECIALLY relevant for RA

Bob

@rlemon I think we still have those enabled.

!!mdn setTimeout

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window.setTimeout

allquixotic

yeah, the MDN plugin is useful enough that I kept it

even though we don't use it often in this room

rlemon

17:25

!!jQuery hide

ChatBot John Cavil

@rlemon api.jquery.com/hide

rlemon

wow, even kept that

Bob

o.O

Now just need to figure out how to integrate man :P

allquixotic

you know, the (now defunct) f'able plugin should've been disabled in all rooms except the Relationships & Dating chat (R&D)

Bob

Hmm... I'm reluctant to use the online services, as easy as that would be :P

allquixotic

17:26

gotta have tools appropriate to the job, y'know

rlemon

!!learn caniuse '<>http://caniuse.com/#search=$encode($1)' (.*)

ChatBot John Cavil

@rlemon Command caniuse learned

rlemon

custom searching commands are easily user taught

!!caniuse flex

ChatBot John Cavil

caniuse.com/#search=flex

Bob

@rlemon Searching with a link to a webpage, yes.

But I kinda wanted to have him actually embed the page in a response :P

rlemon

17:27

also doable.

Bob

Though I guess that would be too long for some pages :\

allquixotic

@rlemon at first i was like "why is he spelling canius wrong? is that like doge applied to the Saint Canius?" then i realized "Can I Use"

jokerdino

@allquixotic it's Mr Benjamin Button

rlemon

lol

@jokerdino you still active in AU?

jokerdino

@rlemon lol yeah

i got a ruddy diamond there

rlemon

17:28

cool.

I haven't been in ages

Bob

As a stop-gap...

allquixotic

!!doge catholic,miracle,martyr

ChatBot John Cavil

           wow
                many catholic
                         much miracle
very martyr

jokerdino

yeah, i haven't seen you there for a long time

Bob

!!help learn

ChatBot John Cavil

17:29

@Bob learn: Teaches me a command. /learn cmdName outputPattern [inputRegex [description]]

jokerdino

jrg is not active much. Octavien disappeared

Bob

!!learn man linux.die.net/man\2/\1 "(\w+) (\d)" "Searches for a manpage"

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob Command man learned

Bob

!!man ssh_config 5

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob linux.die.net/man\2/\1

Bob

17:30

whoops.

rlemon

@jokerdino Octavian is MIA most of the time on SO as well now

Bob

!!forget man

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob Command man forgotten.

rlemon

he was quite active in the JS room but then was having some undisclosed issues and is now on like once a week or so

Bob

!!learn man "http:\/\/linux.die.net/man/$encode($2)/$encode($1)" "(\w+) (\d)" "Searches for a manpage"

ChatBot John Cavil

17:31

@Bob Command man learned

Bob

!!forget man

jokerdino

@rlemon i think it's college

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob Command man forgotten.

Bob

!!learn man "http://linux.die.net/man/$encode($2)/$encode($1)" "(\w+) (\d)" "Searches for a manpage"

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob Command man learned

Bob

17:31

I keep forgetting about bloody chat markdown.

!!man ssh_config 5

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob linux.die.net/man/5/ssh_config

allquixotic

nice :D

Bob

Eh. Good enough till I decide to do it properly.

allquixotic

next step: copy the manpage to a domain that's trusted by onebox, and onebox it in

or (less fun, worse formatting) just take the text and multiline it

Bob

@allquixotic I was thinking retrieve the manpage from the local server rather than a site like that one.

allquixotic

17:33

it'd be funny if we could use like some subdirectory of some user's talk page on wikipedia as a place to paste stuff to get oneboxed :D

@Bob that's OK, except that all the manpages would be applicable to Debian Wheezy Stable and not whatever OS/distro/version people are interested in

rlemon

@Bob the <> before the link inside of the response tells the bot not to ping the user invoking it

Bob

@rlemon Yea, I was there when it was added :P

rlemon

!!tell Bob man ssh

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob Input not matching /(\w+) (\d)/. Help: User-taught command: Searches for a manpage http://linux.die.net/man/$encode($2)/$encode($1)

Bob

@allquixotic You'd run into the same problem no matter your source, though.

rlemon

17:35

ahh, nvm. it used to ping us both

allquixotic

!!tell Bob man 5 ssh

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob Input not matching /(\w+) (\d)/. Help: User-taught command: Searches for a manpage http://linux.die.net/man/$encode($2)/$encode($1)

Bob

@rlemon The other problem is the way that command is structured requires the section number

allquixotic

!!tell Bob man ssh_config 5

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob linux.die.net/man/5/ssh_config

Bob

17:36

linux.die.net uses Google search, no auto-redirect :(

allquixotic

):

rlemon

you could pull back the contents of die.net/search/?q=ssh_config and just pop out the first link

Bob

I can't believe that there doesn't seem to be any other way of querying the man database: stackoverflow.com/questions/12768894/…

@rlemon Not in a user-taught, though? :P

Might as well go all the way and do the local one then.

rlemon

well no, but you can always make a real command :P

Bob

Which would be easy if this were on Node.

Hm. Not-so-easy at the moment.

allquixotic

17:37

I just got a terrible sinking feeling

once JMG becomes a moderator, he's going to ban me D:

rlemon

how so?

Caprica -> add the command to plugins -> re-build -> refresh the bot.

Bob

@rlemon Oh, just a crazy idea to execute a local man command and get the output from that.

rlemon

did you guys keep the refresh command

!!info

ChatBot John Cavil

@rlemon I awoke on Tue, 06 May 2014 04:00:32 GMT (that's about 13 hours ago), got invoked 16 times, learned 74 commands, but forgotten 2 commands

rlemon

!!refresh

ChatBot John Cavil

17:38

@rlemon I'm afraid I can't let you do that, rlemon

rlemon

ohh yea, not owner here :P

Bob

@rlemon More like did we know it existed :P

I don't even know if the refresh works with the way it's being run.

rlemon

well I assumed you looked at the list of commands at least once.

Canadian Luke

What does !!refresh do?

rlemon

refreshes the browser page

the bot (for us) runs as a userscript

and downloads said userscript from the github repository

this way we can always push changes remote

Bob

17:42

@rlemon Yea, not gonna work here.

Canadian Luke

So much power... Understood!

rlemon

I (so far) haven't been involved with the node port

but soon(er than later) I will have time

Hennes

“My bird just laid an egg. Can you tell me if my bird is a boy or a girl?”

Bob

.

Malachi

@Hennes it's a bird

Canadian Luke

17:52

It's Schrodinger's bird... It's both male and female, until you open the egg and find out for sure

4

Malachi

@CanadianLuke way better than my answer

Canadian Luke

:) Feel free to star and make me e-famous

allquixotic

@rlemon the bot runs as a userscript for us too, in Firefox (currently)

but it doesn't download anything from the github repo

@CanadianLuke don't do that; you'll kill it! :'(

Canadian Luke

Haven't yet, don't worry :P

Bob

@allquixotic also, pseudo-headlessly :P

rlemon

18:01

so I edited ssh_config and set ConnectTimeout 10

I assumed that would do it. it didn't

but when we assume we just make asses out of u and me

:( back to the manpage

Bob

@rlemon So, did you try ServerAlive* yet?

rlemon

when I try to add -o ConnectTimeout=10 I get "Bad configuration option: ConnectTimeout.."

@Bob I want to drop the connection

Bob

@rlemon ConnectTimeout is on connection only

@rlemon And?

     ServerAliveCountMax
             Sets the number of server alive messages (see below) which may be
             sent without ssh(1) receiving any messages back from the server.
             If this threshold is reached while server alive messages are
             being sent, ssh will disconnect from the server, terminating the
             session.  It is important to note that the use of server alive
             messages is very different from TCPKeepAlive (below).  The server
             alive messages are sent through the encrypted channel and there-

     ServerAliveInterval
             Sets a timeout interval in seconds after which if no data has
             been received from the server, ssh(1) will send a message through
             the encrypted channel to request a response from the server.  The
             default is 0, indicating that these messages will not be sent to
             the server, or 300 if the BatchMode option is set.  This option
             applies to protocol version 2 only.  ProtocolKeepAlives and
             SetupTimeOut are Debian-specific compatibility aliases for this

rlemon

thats on the server

Bob

@rlemon That's on ssh_config, which is a client config.

rlemon

18:05

does that effect the client?

Bob

Pretty sure @allquixotic said it above.

rlemon

yea i'm so lost

Bob

@rlemon "It has Server in the name" =/> "It is a config option on the server"

@rlemon Set ServerAliveInterval to 5 or something.

That means that every 5 seconds the client will attempt to ping the server.

After ServerAliveCountMax pings are sent without a response, it assumes the connection was lost and exits.

I don't know why that would be hard to understand.

rlemon

because networking is stupid and i'm reading like 5 articles at once right now

Bob

48 mins ago, by allquixotic

ServerAliveInterval and ServerAliveCountMax are the heartbeat functionality from the client to the server

rlemon

18:09

and I clearly missed that

Bob

@rlemon just read the second paragraph of ServerAliveCountMax, it provides an example

even spoon-feeding isn't working :P

rlemon

I can't wait till you have a JS problem

:P

Bob

hehe

rlemon

also, thankyou that worked

Bob

@rlemon been there, done that several times :P

Though, the majority of my JS problems are only hard to figure out because it always throws somewhere seemingly unrelated grumble grumble

rlemon

18:13

yea well, I feel networking is overly convoluted at the best of times. maybe i'm stupid, maybe it is. either way. I don't envy people who have to deal with it every day

and with that said, I know I should take a course or something because 'running' from it isn't working

Bob

@rlemon Heh, I just make it up as I go :P

rlemon

well I do feel you, I had to explain to someone today why function(){}() isn't an expression and how parens don't "make" something an expression, they express it (easier on the brain to think this way I think)

basically wondering why..
1+2 works
so does (1+2)
and (function() {}()); works but not
function() {}();

Bob

o.O

rlemon

JavaScript is also stupid.

I have a long list of things I think are stupid :P

Bob

@rlemon My current target of hate (aside from the usual PHP and VBA) is Java :\

It was JS a few months ago :P

Pretty much, every time I use a language more I find something that seems horribly tedious and/or stupid in it.

rlemon

18:20

yea I accept JS's fallacies because overall I love the language

!!afk coffee

Bob

@rlemon So, basically > an ExpressionStatement cannot start with the function keyword because that might make it ambiguous with a FunctionDeclaration.?

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob rlemon is afk: coffee

Bob

Reading language specs is fun :D

Since an ExpressionStatement can't begin with a function by definition, use the (Expression) form instead, which is a valid ExpressionStatement. And since the Expression there can start with function, it all works.

@rlemon So, the be pedantic, that's wrong :P function(){}() is a perfectly good CallExpression, LeftHandSideExpression and Expression, it's just not a valid ExpressionStatement and not a valid Statement :P

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob rlemon is afk: coffee

Bob

18:36

Hm, actually...

I can't find out where Expression can be a LeftHandSideExpression

rlemon

because function declaration is special. leave it at that :P

you can do fancy shit like this:

!function foo() {}();

but that will break in the next version of JS

Bob

@rlemon It will?

I'm only looking at ES5.1 specs.

rlemon

ES6(7?) is considering it for an infix operator

so everyone who uses it to save one bloody character will fail

Bob

wtf

allquixotic

@rlemon in sshd_config (the server), ClientAliveInterval and ClientTimeout are for terminating the server-side socket, on the server when the client stops responding. in ssh_config (the client; also specifiable as -o ... argument to ssh), ServerAliveInterval and ServerTimeout are for terminating the client-side socket, on the client when the server stops responding.

Bob

18:47

@rlemon I'm considering leaving it at that :P

But no.

allquixotic

election closes in 1 hour !!!!!!!!!!

here come our new mods !!!!!

lol, from here:

> Water for washing, drinking and cooking. Canada recommends 2 litres per person per day for drinking plus an additional 2 litres per person per day for cleaning and hygiene.[15] New Zealand recommends 3 litres per person per day for drinking.[16] US recommends 1 gallon (3.78 litres) per person per day.

apparently, people in the US require more drinking water than people in NZ, and people in NZ require more drinking water than people in Canada

Bob

Expression can be an AssignmentExpression can be a ConditionalExpression can be a LogicalORExpression can be a LogicalANDExpression can be a BitwiseORException can be a BitwiseXORExpression can be a BitwiseANDExpression can be an EqualityExpression can be a RelationalExpression can be a ShiftExpression can be an AdditiveExpression can be a MultiplicativeExpression can be an UnaryExpression can be a PostfixExpression can be a LeftHandSideExpression

holy shit

allquixotic

of course, if you're going to be walking with this bag, you may actually benefit from having a lighter load (and thus not becoming as tired) by carrying less water

Bob

why do they feel the need to link it through such a massive chain

rlemon

@allquixotic there is water in maple syrup, which comprises 50% of our diet.

Bob

18:51

pain in the fucking arse to resolve Expression down to a LeftHandSideExpression

who writes these things

rlemon

@Bob what ecma spec are you looking at?

the "official" one?

Bob

who reads these things and implements them?

@rlemon ecma-international.org/ecma-262/5.1

rlemon

!!google annotated es5

ChatBot John Cavil

@rlemon * Annotated ES5 ; TOC - Annotated ES5 ; 7 Lexical Conventions # ① — Annotated ES5

rlemon

^ much easier to make sense of

allquixotic

18:51

@Bob Fox is a canid is a carnivore is a mammal is a chordate is an animal? :P

Bob

@allquixotic Yes, but here we have definitions like:

BitwiseORExpression :
  BitwiseXORExpression
  BitwiseORExpression | BitwiseXORExpression

Hm. I suppose this is how they resolve precedence? O_O

@rlemon It's not much different for this purpose, unfortunately.

rlemon

these pretzels are making me thirsty.

Canadian Luke

An hour left for the election! Get your votes in now!

Bob

@CanadianLuke You just want people to vote for you :P

Canadian Luke

Well, that too... but I also believe in the voting system as a whole

... Did that work?

rlemon

18:58

yup

you got my vote

however "Canadian" in the name would have landed you that vote anyway

Canadian Luke

Excellent! Muahaha

rlemon

does this mean more beer + hockey on SU?

can we have Poutine Tuesdays?

allquixotic

@rlemon NO

rlemon

:(

allquixotic

I went to Ontario for a week and never tried poutine

rlemon

19:00

:O

allquixotic

disgusting stuff

rlemon

you never tried it

you have no say

allquixotic

@rlemon because all the gravy was always meat, and I'm vegetarian

what's so hard about slapping some gravy on french fries, anyway? I could do that at home (with vegetable gravy)

Canadian Luke

Mmmm.... Poutine... I should grab one for lunch

superuser.com/posts/750472/revisions

@allquixotic Don't forget the cheese curds!

Poutine is one of the best culinary inventions of Canada!

Mokubai

@CanadianLuke Cheese curds?!?! Is that like milk that went off twice?

allquixotic

19:02

but it has a horrible name whose first syllable sounds like the word "poot"

Canadian Luke

!!wiki cheese curds

ChatBot John Cavil

Cheese curd

:This article is about cheese curds as a regional delicacy. For general information about the dairy product, see curd. For information about the role of curds in cheese processing, see cheese. Cheese curds in cuisine, or cooking, are the solid parts of soured milk either eaten alone or used in various regional dishes, mostly in Quebec (Canada) and the northeastern and midwestern United States. They are sometimes referred to as "squeaky cheese". Characteristics Cheese curds are little known in locations without cheese factories because they should ideally be eaten within hours of manu...

allquixotic

that looks gross

Mokubai

@allquixotic Yeah, Poutine is to Canada as Faggots are to the UK.

Canadian Luke

Don't knock it till you try it! Go to an A&W in Canada, and ask for one

Mokubai

19:04

They sound bad, but are (probably) okay

Canadian Luke

Faggots mean something COMPLETELY different to most Canadians... Just saying

rlemon

@allquixotic actually most of the fast food joints that sell them use onion gravy for that exact reason

everyone i've met who hasn't tried one, after trying one, was converted

problem is they are like a bowl of calories.

Canadian Luke

... And fat. And cholesterol.

allquixotic

@rlemon well then they should figure out how to apply poutine to celery, which I've read actually has negative calories (your body has to invest more energy in just processing the celery fiber through you than the energy you metabolize from it)

Canadian Luke

@allquixotic The problem is the heat though. Poutines don't taste good when they're cold

And Celery doesn't taste good hot... In my experiences...

SE going into Read Only mode soon...

rlemon

19:11

@CanadianLuke does in soup

Canadian Luke

@rlemon I try not to look at what's in my soups... Personal preference!

rlemon

I make a lot of soups :P

I cook a lot. fast food makes me sick.

allquixotic

I do a little bit of both

rlemon

I often do not eat out. and when I do I regret it.

maybe once a year.

Malachi

19:45

this sounds a little like another answer I have seen somewhere..... cough (superuser.com/a/744715/162960) cough only more step by step and specific to your issue. — Malachi 51 secs ago

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