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23:01
@Hennes @Bob Applet, or JWS?
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Applet.
Wait.
Maybe JWS.
I forgot.
I'll check when I get home.
My access seems to be blocked somehow. Weird. I know my home IP was whitelisted for the management VLAN to the DRAC
Bob
Bob
Hm. Ok, it might've been JWS :P
jviewer.jnlp apparently exists
so it probably was
@Bob yep, webstart
so the "security" concerns are pretty much null and void
running jviewer.jnlp is basically consummate to downloading virus.exe
there's literally no difference security-wise
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic There is some, actually, due to user education (or the lack of it)
Some more basic users can be (and are) trained to be wary of anything ending in .exe.
Something that doesn't look like an executable? Well...
23:13
@Bob the biggest issue with user education I've seen so far is that people go around screaming "Java is insecure! Java is insecure! Uninstall Java! Uninstall Java!" without understanding that there is an infinitely massive difference between Applets and WebStart/desktop/server uses of Java
probably 33% of the web runs on Java application servers, and the number of security issues you find there which are the fault of the platform rather than the fault of the web/front-end developer is not significantly more/less than other web platforms
tty
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Meh. As long as they have to bundle a toolbar, I find it hard to take them seriously.
just because Oracle failed to make a sandboxed browser plugin (which is extremely hard; look up the number of security vulnerabilities that exist / have existed for Flash, Silverlight, Acrobat plugin, Office plugin, etc) doesn't mean their entire platform is bad
Bob
Bob
It's Oracle. Not like they're exactly hurting for funds.
As far as recommending uninstalling Java - I recommend not to install it in the first place if you don't really need it :P
If you already have it? Meh.
@Bob I point thee to the solution
followed by disabling the Applet browser plugin
Bob
Bob
23:17
@allquixotic And watch your performance go down the drain... well, what little you had.
(Hm. Actually, how is OJDK's performance these days?)
@Bob there's very little of the proprietary Java that was not open sourced that relates to performance in any way
Bob
Bob
My main gripes with Java: the insecure browser plugins, the bloody toolbar installation, and the lack of good efficient IDEs/the general memory bloat.
the biggest pieces that were left out of OpenJDK (and thus had to be reimplemented clean-room style, which AFAIK is mostly done barring patent issues on codecs and such) were related to crypto and media, two big dicey areas for patents and third party licensing
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Yea, I haven't looked into it in a few years, where the last I heard was OpenJDK lagging behind by a bit.
it wasn't anything to do with performance since the hotspot JIT compiler is fully open source
and always has been
Bob
Bob
23:19
Wait, no, I was looking into it recently.
There's very specific recommendations saying to run Eclipse with Oracle Java, because its performance apparently sucks even more (how is that possible?! it's going to wrap around at this rate!) under OpenJDK.
so where's the performance metrics showing OpenJDK slower than Java, based on the same build number? (e.g. OpenJDK 7 build 45 vs. Oracle Java 7 build 45; comparing different builds isn't fair)
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Hell if I know, I just stumbled across those recs while trying to get Eclipse into a usable state. Never succeeded either.
not sure if it's your hardware or your drivers or what, but I can't recall ever having any particularly egregious performance problems with Eclipse, even back to Eclipse 2.x on my main desktop with like 4 GB of RAM and a Core 2 at the time
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Might have only been OpenJDK 6:
6
Q: Are there any issues what so ever with running Eclipse with OpenJDK under Linux?

Thorbjørn Ravn AndersenThe standard cure for fixing Java problems with Linux distributions like Ubuntu is to say "Use the Sun JDK instead of OpenJDK". For several reasons I'd like to just use the Java shipping with Ubuntu instead of having to install and download from partner repositories or download tarballs. I have...

@Bob it may seem hard to comprehend why, but Oracle themselves have actually been working hard to make more of OpenJDK better and open source and bring its feature and performance parity up to their binary release, to the point that they're virtually equivalent except for branding
Bob
Bob
23:25
Incidentally, I'm still targeting 6
one of the nice side effects is that Red Hat can ship a modern, efficient OpenJDK build in RHEL7, which then rolls into Oracle Linux based on the Red Hat SRPMs
the two companies actually have a significant overlap of shared interest in that space, of running Java server-side on RHEL's platform
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic oh, it's not just me
@Bob you can write code targeting runtime 6 and dev/test it on JDK7 or 8
Bob
Bob
I've been having trouble with Eclipse from day one on a clean Win7 Pro.
for one thing, the javac compiler can target an older runtime, and you can just use APIs in your code that were available as of the older version for backwards compatibility
Bob
Bob
23:27
And at least two other people here, one using standard Eclipse and one using an IDE derived from Eclipse have similar issues.
But the issues with Eclipse have nothing to do with the Java version I'm targeting anyway.
Pretty sure it chokes on the mass of JS
@allquixotic That could potentially cause hard to diagnose issues, considering what production is running.
Not worth the trouble, especially when it doesn't really affect anything but my local Tomcat instance, which is perfectly fine.
Eclipse dying has little/nothing to do with it; Eclipse is running on 7.
@Bob unless what you're doing in your code pertains to something weird like custom crypto drivers, native code, OpenCL, etc., the chances of any two Java runtimes which both pass the TCK behaving semantically different on the same APIs is vanishingly small (except for Applets of course)
Bob
Bob
There's also known issues when .NET 4.5 silently replaced some core parts of .NET 4 with slightly different behaviour. That caused some fun bugs (they're on SO somewhere)
the core stuff like collections, net code, the basic Object model, etc. is very rock solid
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic I'm still not going to take the risk.
There's no benefit, so there's no reason for me to do so.
I'll fiddle with bleeding-edge when I'm doing my own stuff and don't need to support systems older than I am... (in the literal sense)
> PHP, jQuery, MySQL, Web Developer
Code Studio Pty Sydney, Australia
huh
> Code Studio
creative.
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