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00:00 - 09:0009:00 - 23:00

00:04
@JimmyHoffa ok, I will probably find someone else to start a game with... can't be Bob though because our time delta is too severe
00:22
arstechnica.com/staff/2014/01/… lenovo, why you do this?
@allquixotic Not really. Schnauzerkind obviously went into space, and came back due to the lack of fire-hydrants and squeeky toys.
@JourneymanGeek EKKKKKKKKK! where's the caps lock!?!?
@Braiam: I find them moving the block of keys with home/insert worse.
wait, where are the function keys???
Backspace dosen't belong there
all this so they can save a half-row of keys
@JourneymanGeek Didn't click the link, but from your reaction, I guess you're talking about the lack of Capslock :P
00:31
no
they went full on I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO CALL IT WITHOUT INSULTING PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.
they basically broke up the home-delete cluster
and scattered its carcass to the 4 winds
and... where is the damned printscreen key
00:55
@JourneymanGeek what next? they'll remove the TrackPoint? then I will have zero reason to ever buy another Lenovo product, even though I already really dislike them
that keyboard is absolutely atrocious... they should be embarrassed
whoever designed it should be fired and the organization should be told by executive order from the CEO to return the keyboard to the X60 design immediately and give a $100 credit to all owners of the new keyboard disaster
if they don't do that, they have no soul (and I know they don't, so they won't)
FWIW I @'ed their Twitter account complaining about it
01:33
@allquixotic I liked it better when ThinkPads were made by IBM...
...not by Lenovo.
IBM is a research company that has done a lot of great things, while Lenovo is just another Chinese tech company.
01:44
I like Lenovo products.
When IBM made ThinkPads, they innovated, not just sold.
Like when they made a laptop with a butterfly keyboard and one with a removable backlight to project onto an overhead projector...
(That was before laptops had VGA ports and LCD projectors were made cheap.)
Huh... why won't Windows Flip work. :S
It was discontinued in Windows 8, by the way...
Windows 8 uses the old keyboard shortcut to switch between Metro apps.
Do you know MS-DOS?
Can you answer this?
0
Q: Why do I get an internal stack overflow error when minimizing and restoring an MS-DOS virtual machine window?

gparyaniI am using Windows Virtual PC on a Windows 7 machine. I have created an MS-DOS 6.22 virtual machine with 16 MB RAM and a 2 GB hard disk. Whenever I minimize or otherwise deactivate the window, and then restore or reactivate it, I get an error message, the PC speaker beeps for a second, and the vi...

02:00
I'm not using Windows 8
ahh, I don't have an Aero theme enabled.
@gparyani I agree completely
@gparyani did you try other virtualization products? that's the best I can recommend, since something like VirtualBox or VMware Workstation might not exhibit the behavior
or maybe they do exhibit the behavior, in which case you know it's not Virtual PC at fault
either way, trying other products (even if you just get the 30-day eval of VMware and not buy it) will prove enlightening
if you don't try, you'll never know
Bob
Bob
02:35
@allquixotic heh, thanks :P (and ditto, if I ever do...)
@allquixotic luckily those haven't really hit sydney
just missed actually
only 27 C now
!!convert 27 c to f
@Bob That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
@Bob
!!convert 27f to c
@Bob Confuse converter with c, receive error message
@allquixotic
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic wrong way :P
!!help convert
@Bob convert: Converts several units and currencies, case sensitive. /convert <num><unit> [to|in <unit>] Pass in list for supported units /convert list
02:36
it's not working either way... I think it might be the shims >_>
no i removed them, it can't be that
Bob
Bob
!!convert list
@Bob C, F, K, m, f, km, cm, mm, i, d, r, g, lb, st, kg
America really needs to shift to SI units :P
Bob
Bob
!!convert 27C to f
02:37
although, if it's using a web service, that service could be down
Bob
Bob
!!convert 27C to F
Bob
Bob
ah.
that's just stupid.
@HackToHell I agree, except that a gallon is a rather wonderful unit of measurement for purchasing milk
Bob
Bob
I guess f is feet
should probably be ft
02:38
no, that's ft
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic there is no ft in the list
@Bob case insensitive comparison should be implemented, and it should s/f/ft/
Also is the latest version of Spotify working for you @allquixotic ?
@HackToHell on which platform?
Bob
Bob
also, d? r?
02:39
Windows
Bob
Bob
deg and rad if it's degrees and radians
trying now. I'll let it update. I know I'm out of date because I haven't started it on Windows in a while
I spend 99% of my time using Spotify on Android
Downloading 0.9.7.16
Yep, that's the latest version
02:40
I was on 0.9.6.81 previously
what doesn't work about it for you?
as we speak it is playing music, so it would seem to work
(after updating and restarting Spotify)
The latest version simply hangs, every time i click something inside it
Oh wait, I think should clear the cache and try again.
It seems to hang up when it reads a specific file in Appdata
@allquixotic As I mentioned before, my next laptop will either be a chromebook, or a razer blade ;p
Sigh, there goes 4 gigs of music
(though, by then hopefully, I'll find a suitable workaround for my beloved trackpoint.)
@HackToHell i recall having some kind of UPnP problem with Spotify, maybe... or was that Skype... I always get my S programs mixed up
02:48
(Honestly, someone should make a device thats just a flattish wedge with a trackpoint and 2-3 physical buttons...)
@JourneymanGeek do either of those have a trackpoint?
@allquixotic: nope
@JourneymanGeek that would be awesome... "mousepoint" or something... lol
Bob
Bob
eh... time to go get some AS5 for that GPU surgery :P
however either of these have advantages for me.
chromebooks are dirt cheap
razers are expensive, but oh so damned sexy
02:51
I like the razer idea but honestly my only laptop form factor purchases in the next 4 years will probably be Surface Pro X (almost certainly where X > 2)
unless they dramatically screw it up
@allquixotic Spotify doesn't do UPnP streaming, so it's probably Skype
btw, did you guys hear about the Haswell "refresh" release that's coming sometime in 2014? I think it's supposed to arrive at least a half-year ahead of Broadwell
it's going to be neither a tick nor a tock, just more of a little update that I guess will form the basis of another ultrabook iteration for MSFT and Lenovo and Dell
the conversation probably went something like this. a big wig at MSFT calls up Intel. "hey guys we want to iterate Surface Pro no later than Q3 2014, can you get us a new processor by then?" // Intel: "we weren't planning on it, Broadwell's still a year off" // MSFT: "well can you do it anyway?" // Intel: "sigh, ok, we'll do a little ditty on Haswell real quick for ya"
Bob
Bob
lol
Bob
Bob
o.O
> Virtualization support (VT-x): yes!
oh god
virtualisation on a celeron?
03:02
@Bob Celerization
@allquixotic: Thats the tricky thing for me - I can manage with a desktop + anything with a decent screen size
I'd consider the smaller blade to be a nice mid-space between a desktop replacement (powerwise) and my preferred really tiny laptops
I just want a Surface Pro with rotating media (or for someone to discover a miraculous and affordable new way of data storage that involves either much better/denser/cheaper NAND, or something new entirely), more RAM, and a trackpoint on the type cover
@Bob that's the NUC Sandy Bridge Celeron. I wouldn't be surprised if those servers are NUC form factor, if not actual NUCs
@allquixotic: or just have an external drive as needed.
;p
external drive is extremely inelegant :/
I'm only using ~70 gb on my laptop
(actually, I need to clean it out a bit)
Bob
Bob
03:11
@allquixotic @_@
So much space x_x
/me supposes thats raided
Bob
Bob
03:13
@allquixotic why do you even have that much space? :P
(I have a similar amount total, but am using like 70% of it)
@JourneymanGeek yup
@Bob because I like to have lots of free space... for the future, you know
it makes more sense to have lots of free space on SSDs than on HDDs actually, but for obvious reasons that's an HDD array
(if that were SSDs, I'd be about $8000 in debt)
Thats my main desktop
(Q: is from office 2010 basic)
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek huh?
03:16
@Bob: I have that freebie version of office installed, just word and excel, lots of features missing
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek but why does an extra drive appear?
@Bob: something to do with click and run
Bob
Bob
o.o
hm... I need more space
external USB3 drives are cheaper than internal SATA now somehow
o0
if they're not self powered, you can shuck them ;p
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek external power
03:19
nice ;p
Bob
Bob
external drives, not portable
ya, which means 3.5 inch drives in external bays
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek not sure if the boards are USB or SATA with USB adapter board
WD elements and Seagate whatevers in that price range (~$89 for 2 TB)
it's usually at least $95 for the internal ones
@Bob: most 2.5 inch drives are USB, most bigger ones arn't
got c: down to 75 gb...
@Bob that looks a little nuts... I couldn't handle having so many separate directory structures
03:22
30 of which is the page file and hibernation file ;p
on Linux it'd be great because symlinks and mount points, but on Windows it's a nightmare... C:, D:, E:, F:, ughhhhh
@allquixotic: In my case, I basically use c: for normal use, D: for long term storage and the DOID for files coming in from my download box
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic heh
it's not too bad
F is the backup
G is media
C is OS, programs, etc
D is Steam and other very large things (some VMs)
H is the external USB2 drive I don't really use
@Bob C is the backup, media, OS, programs, Steam and other very large things (some VMs), a Downloads directory I never ever clear out, etc
'course I really need to get some of my irreplaceables on an actual backup system like @DarthAndroid was pointing me to the other day
> Singapore
FYI
@allquixotic: run into him on the bridge
04:10
...did that bear just eat my yaks? D:
Everyone has so much space :S
and for evil bastards, SCO has nice docs
@HackToHell: when I was your age.... ;p
wonders if LMWTFY is too mean tho
04:28
@JourneymanGeek W?
I rewrote that to be less mean ;p
I'm half (or 75%, or 99%) expecting a !!foxno from @Bob for my previous message...
(considering what site it ends up searching from)
04:30
I like potatoes
doing it with bing is even funnier in context.
And optimus prime!
I like Bing, Google, and DuckDuckGo for different reasons each: DDG is your privacy advocate for when you really need to make an anonymous search; Bing is your MSDN / Microsoft Technologies search (better than Google in many cases); and Google is your general purpose all-round best search
don't forget wolfram alpha ;p
@allquixotic I use Bing for Bing Rewards.
that's not a search engine; that's a web build of Wolfram Mathematica :D
@allquixotic I don't think that DuckDuckGo is as private, but StartPage is.
Do any of you know what StartPage is?
StartPage does not log your query whether it be on its servers or in your history.
Bob
Bob
GPU surgery time!
It allows you to send POST requests to search results thus keeping your visit to the site out of most webmaster logs (vs. the usual GET)
CHAINSAW!
@Bob: pictures if you can ;p
this might be an awesome SU blog post
And best of all, it uses Google search results.
Bob
Bob
04:35
@JourneymanGeek I'll see about setting up a camera :P
(ABSOLUTELY NO AFFILIATION with the search engine)
Bob
Bob
it's pretty basic fan replacement and repasting
I merely heard of it because it is the default search engine in Tor
Bob
Bob
also the first time I've ever done this, so prepare to cringe :P
Oops, I was so busy typing chat messages that I did not notice what everyone else was posting...
By the way, I am NOT a spam user, trust me...
@Bob (Well, we have no responsibility if your GPU breaks in the process.)
I wonder why Adobe Acrobat is not updated in the CC application.
I keep getting separate update notifications for it.
If we propose a suggested edit to a post that gets approved, and then it later gets deleted, why do we lose the rep?
04:45
@JourneymanGeek Computer's weren't advanced then :P
*computers
Bob
Bob
05:21
fuck
finished, and found an extra bracket and screw -_-
had to redo half of it
Bob
Bob
05:44
@JourneymanGeek complete :D
heh
camera ran out of power newar the end
last frame was just after paste was applied
nice X shape :P
unfortunately it's a good 3 GB :\
@Bob H264 480p?
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic what, convert it? :P
also
I had to do it twice
taking it apart again was hard
0
Q: Is there a wifi card mfg that *only* does a FOSS driver?

cat pantsI want to buy a wifi card that works with Linux, and the only firmware + driver that is available is FOSS, and partially maintained by the mfg, and partly by the community. Does this exist?

Bob
Bob
must've been well applied paste.. had to slide it out
05:57
this is why I sometimes get annoyed at FOSS zealots.
I'd rather have something that works, than something anointed by the Sainted Stallman.
Bob
Bob
06:14
so. went from a GTX 560 Ti to a GTX 560
the Ti was a MSI Twin Frozr III (hawk)
the non-Ti was a Twin Frozr II
much quieter
Dew
Dew
o/
Three male programmers were in the bathroom standing at the urinals.
The first programmer finishes, walks over to the sink to wash his hands.
He then proceeds to dry his hands very carefully. He uses paper towel after paper towel and ensures that every single spot of water on his hands is dried.
Turning to the other two, he says, "At Microsoft, we are trained to be extremely thorough."
The second programmer finishes his task at the urinal and he proceeds to wash his hands. He uses a single paper towel and makes sure that he dries his hands using every available portion of the paper towel.
@Bob yeah, that's what I was implying
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic it's quite horrible
I'm not sure I want to share it :P
ended up as 160 MB
(20 mins)
06:30
not too bad now that you recompressed it, but no need to share...
i'm not sure i could bear the gore of watching you dissect a GPU
"ugh, you pulled out his power wire! I think I'm gonna puke"
@JourneymanGeek why are we spending so much time answering a question by a guy named "cat pants"
@allquixotic: answering?
ahh commenting on ;p
@JourneymanGeek don't assume that he's a zealot; he may have some specific reason for this, such as, a military organization that has to be able to audit every single function a device performs down to the transistor level, formal methods, etc
not even just military, but also extremely closely guarded / sensitive corporate or personal information
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic in which case he probably shouldn't be asking on SU
but i know that for instance in the US there are military applications of digital technology that require full disclosure of all hardware and software specifications, details and source code for formal verification
@Bob if "cat pants" is from NSA, I'm worried, very worried
@allquixotic: hence me saying that if he has a specific need, to say so
I do believe if you wanted to get down to that level, you need a SDR
Bob
Bob
06:35
@allquixotic then they can contact the manufacturer and sign a NDA
@JourneymanGeek a wifi card with full firmware disclosure basically becomes an SDR once you have every last detail of the hardware and software and firmware
And at one point, and with some cards like broadcom, you needed to get the firmware from windows to run it
you can define what you want it to do using the firmware -- within the limits of what the possibly fixed function hardware allows you to do
in which case, just get a ralink/mediatek (they make most of the cheaper cards anyway)
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek ...get...the...firmware...from...windows?
06:36
although I don't think any chipsets use physical circuitry to limit tx power or broadcast frequency
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek drivers != firmware
@Bob fwcutter. you install the windows driver or extract the firmware from the installer package, then load the firmware into the hardware at initialization time and use a native Linux driver (or ndiswrapper...)
^ that
in which case it would be an issue. Thats only with broadcom adaptors.
the firmware is "machine code" (native code) compiled for the hardware device, so it really is irrelevant which platform you load it from, since the platform doesn't have to make any sense of it
Bob
Bob
06:37
what on earth...
it just says "here's your blob!"
Bob
Bob
it installs firmware on startup?
who/why the fuck
@Bob most/all wifi cards and GPUs require the host CPU to load firmware into them at initialization time to tell them what to do
Intel has worked out of the box since the 802.11b days. Ralink has excellent driver support. Ditto with artheros (sp?)
!! s/most\///
06:38
@allquixotic @Bob all wifi cards and GPUs require the host CPU to load firmware into them at initialization time to tell them what to do (source)
this has been true for a very, very long time
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek are you praising Ralink's drivers?
they don't have on-chip NAND or anything to store the firmware
@Bob: they generally work and they've had drivers for linux on their website as long as I can remember.
Bob
Bob
!!learn lod ಠ_ಠ
06:39
@Bob Command lod learned
if the devices had the firmware "baked in", there would be numerous drawbacks: it would add to the cost (now we have a NAND chip on the wifi card); and add an additional requirement to the host<->chip interface to make it upgradeable/overwritable; and add risk that a bit might get flipped in the NAND by a random gamma ray and make it unusable
@Bob: their windows drivers are wierd (though they often have interesting functionality, like AP mode), but their wifi adaptors usually have kernel support, and work perfectly there.
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic doesn't have to be NAND or upgradeable
these days with most advanced electronics (advanced = connected to a host CPU roughly consisting of an MMU, an I/O bus and capabilities approaching at least that of a router or smartphone or better), peripherals that have programmable low-level firmware support get their firmware from the host CPU for maximum maintainability, upgradability and flexibility
ok, odd question, if I had more than one adaptor connected on the same network, would I be using both, or causing something horrific?
06:41
like, on smartphones, the host CPU pushes the firmware into the cellular baseband on initialization, and the firmware into the GPU, and the firmware into the wifi chipset
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek context?
wifi adapter?
One wifi, one 'ethernet' over homeplug AV
if you have two ethernet or wifi controllers connected to the same subnet but with different IP addresses for the distinct devices, it will work, but one of the two devices (usually depending on load order) will be selected as the default gateway, and all traffic will be routed through that by default
is trying to decide if adding a dispatch-proxy server on the desk is worth the effort
I'm getting reasonable speeds over powerline (and having gig-e between my systems is ace)
there is software to load balance between multiple NICs, and it usually involves inspection of traffic to keep track of TCP sockets and so on, so that a given socket persists across the same NIC for the duration of the socket
06:43
@allquixotic: oh, thats what I'm pondering, really
wouldn't want my internet connection being piped through NodeJS though... </allergicToGCSystemSoftware>
@allquixotic: it worked reasonably well in testing
GCSystem software?
garbage-collecting system software. that is, system software whose runtime performs garbage collection, where system software is defined as very low level stuff
ahh
this is a 'simple' proxy thing.
eventually the generational garbage collector of v8 is gonna want to cleanup the heap, and it'll cause a brief latency... meaningless for http, but it'll matter for a FPS
06:46
I suppose there's a better option....
@allquixotic: mostly for http ;p
I'm getting ~4mb-s on the homeplug network
not great, but fast enough
on the other hand, for file transfers between systems on my desk its smoking fast.
i was sure that Linux has a kernel module that can do this...
but you may not be running Linux
no, but I do have a spare raspi ;p
5
Q: Load balancing & NAT-ing multiple ISP connections on Linux

Baishampayan GhoseI have two internet connections from two different ISPs and I need to balance the traffic originating to and from my network between the two ISPs. I am using Debian GNU/Linux. My set-up is like this - eth0 (192.168.0.0/24) -- Local network eth1 (192.168.1.0/24) -- ISP #1 eth2 (192.168.2.0/24)...

server-oriented Q&A but you should be able to adapt the concept
Dew
Dew
@allquixotic what is this???
is this you?
doing it that way is significantly more efficient because the C code of the kernel can simply reuse the same buffer
@Dew no, that is not me
06:50
bookmarks
not sure if I want to do it yet ;p
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek a rasppi won't do gbe
@Bob: thats fine, none of my upstream can either.
too bad jman doesn't have a NUC router like me
then he could do codel and load balancing
the gbe is mainly for throwing files between my laptop and desktop
(though for some reason, the gig-e switch gets poor signal in my room... with everything switched off)
its perfectly fine in every other place I tested it
(and no, its not other things interfering. I switched off all other electronic/mains gear in the room to test)
06:54
o.o
my 200mbps gear gets good or average strength. Mine gets poor.
The 500mbps/gig-e switch on my desk when I say mine
I get reasonable signal quality elsewhere
hmm, actually...
yeah, I did switch everything else off.
Bob
Bob
07:10
(you should be able to see the deleted message @allquixotic @JourneymanGeek :P)
ooh
not as complex as I assumed
(I skipped through bits of it)
Bob
Bob
heh
@JourneymanGeek yea, just annoying that you have to take off the heatsink to access those screws
otherwise I could've done this witout repasting
but the old paste looked pretty crap anyway
it tends to dry out, least the stock stuff
Bob
Bob
went through so many swabs -_-
07:26
@Bob :D
nice work man! so it works 100% now?
I just realised that if this place is wired as I think it is, the room with most of the computer gear is between me and the switchbox
Bob
Bob
07:48
@allquixotic ya
one fan failed (this was a few months ago)
the GTX 560 Ti was a card I bought as a replacement at that time
but it was so freaking loud -_-
@Bob - I had to stick my head under the desk to see if my 560 was also loud. It sorta is.
Bob
Bob
@MichaelFrank not the 560
it was the twin frozr iii, on the 560 ti
"propellers for 20% extra airflow!" (and 500% more noise)
I have a perfectly fine and quiet 560 with twin frozr ii running right now
08:04
Ahh
nice, I can access the prescribed text book of a coursera course for free !
my 660 is silent ;)
At 100% my entry level card is bloody loud
oh, mine's fairly loud at 100%
RARELY ever hits that when not gaming
Did someone need me?
08:08
My system is fairly quiet, the sound doesn't bother me, as I've normally got music on and the box is under the desk (dining table, but who's judgin'?)
at around 70% its silent tho
@Ariane: not as far as I can tell.
I had a notification that I had been invited to join the chat.
I have an airconditioner and a stand fan that are louder ;)
@Ariane: o0
odd, this chat?
This chat.
and it didn't say who? >_>
Bob
Bob
08:10
@JourneymanGeek still quietish at 100% :P
the TFIII sounded like a bloody jet engine taking off
12 hours ago. There's nothing highlighted then I click it and it brings me to the transcript
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek heh, the box fan running next to me drowns out the TFII easily. the TFIII? not nearly
Well then. If someone wants to talk to me may they ping me or something. Currently in a depressed period of acute not-giving-a-shit-ism so I'd likely not visit the chat.
For now I'll be off to bed because it's slightly 3 in the morning.
Good luck with your patient @Bob
Bob
Bob
@Ariane heh, thanks, it's recovering nicely and due to be released soon :)
@Bob has it regained consciousness yet? :P
Bob
Bob
08:25
@allquixotic yep
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