@Braiam I often don't add resize / scroll stuff to demos

what is the standard doge image?

I imagine this is it

Oooh, new OVH servers are out

but they're so expensive :(

@rlemon yeah

@DarthAndroid the main reason why I have not left Hetzner.... ever.... since discovering them

I just upgrade per Hetzner's upgrade cadence, except the latest generation servers, which have a regression in storage capacity; no thanks

the server I own isn't even for sale anymore, but it has an Ivy Bridge CPU (3770) so it's okay

Whooops, nevermind. Just checked Hetzner. OVh is still cheap. I take back what I said

@DarthAndroid how do you figure?

Hetzner's prices on their website include 19% VAT, which, unless you are in the European Union, can be subtracted from the price

OVH's prices exclude VAT, which means you can directly convert their prices into USD to get the actual price you pay

Well that's terribly misleading.

@DarthAndroid not really; it says it right on the website

Hmmm, and OVH discounts servers by about 20% after the first year

I'm paying $110.85/month to Hetzner for a Core i7 3770, 32 GB RAM, 2 x 3 TB HDD with a hardware RAID controller (LSI), three "lone" IPv4 addresses plus an IPv4 /29 and an IPv6 /big (48 I think?), 100 GB of backup space, remote reboot and rescue system

my php isn't working

only thing I want to improve on is CPU -- the disk and RAM are satisfactory

you guys are super users

you can help right?

<?php
$ipath = 'doge.png';
$img = imagecreatefrompng($img);
header("Content-type: image/png");
imagepng($img);

!!tell 13231735 maybe

TRWTF is PHP. there, the superusers have helped. go use a real language. bye

j/k

@PatoSáinz HAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahaha takes breath hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... ha

!!tell 13231795 no

@allquixotic Where are the hetzner servers hosted?

@DarthAndroid Germany

lemonmeme.com/doge I do not understand why that simple php isn't working

So for about the same price and a slightly worse processor (-10%), OVH offers 3X the traffic and DDoS protection, and no transatlantic pings

@DarthAndroid are you referring to the EG-32?

they're only available in France as far as I can tell

I mean, unless France has picked itself up and moved to New England or something, that's pretty transatlantic

I want a budget host TBH, unless someone else is going to offer better bang fo rmy buck

No, SYS-E32-3 vs Hetzner's EX40

@DarthAndroid link to SYS-E32-3? I don't even see that offered

soyoustart.com/us/offers/sys-e32-3.xml

(EX40 is $52.64/mo without the VAT)

looks up DO

nice... only one IP (how much are extra IPs? I need at least a v4 /29), 1 TB less disk space per disk, but certainly cheaper

they are $3/mo

Also, DO prices are through the roof unless there is something special about their cloud hosting over a standard dedicated server

also, it would seem that SoYouStart is sold out of the SYS-E32-3 :)

@allquixotic Less sold out, more they just brought the site online a day or two ago

they haven't made them available yet I think

@DarthAndroid DO is cloud hosting? oh. yeah, the special thing is you get a nice fat slap in the face with extra latency for being virtualised

not so much the hypervisor itself, but the amount of contortions that other users of the system can put it through

Yeah, DO is almost twice the price for considerably less than half the server

unless they're running a real-time operating system

(which I highly doubt)

well, SoYouStart at least has reasonable prices, but the tech would be a significant regression from what I have now

I'm waiting to see what the gaming line has

pay less for less, or keep what I have... hmmmmm

soyoustart.com/us

the middle section is still a "coming soon"

which I'm hoping will have updated processors

@DarthAndroid probably something like dual Ivy or Haswell Xeons for around $150/mo, with tiny hard disks to cut costs

that's the whole thing with these hosts trying to compete on price: they perceive certain price points, and they are unwilling to go past those price points, so, to keep within, they always severely cut one spec of the system

Well, here are their new $100+ offerings: ovh.com/us/dedicated-servers/enterprise

either the CPU sucks (see their "backup" servers), or the disks suck, or the RAM sucks

or the CPU is just old

The SP-64 is very tempting, but I just don't need $100/mo worth of server right now.

I might possibly contact OVH or SoYouStart and see if they can do a custom deal with me to convert me from Hetzner. my terms: give me a comparable CPU, the same storage or more, the same RAM or more, hardware RAID, the same IPs or more, and beat the price

don't care about enterprise-grade hardware or not, just whether they can go cheaper, or no more than $5/mo more if it's within the North American continent

definitely worth looking into

I'd actually pay slightly more (might even go $15/mo more than what I'm paying now) to go to North Am

I've certainly been happy with my current server from them, minus the fact that my needs are starting to exceed the processor

yeah, I really can't afford to downgrade much on the CPU

although don't E3v2 Xeons have more cache than desktop IVBs?

*checks*

What are you using yours for, and how much are you paying?

the E3v2's have the same cache as the haswell desktops

@DarthAndroid gaming server (OpenSimulator 24x7), file storage, web hosting, hosting Cavil, occasionally compiling stuff, pretty much all around general purpose

don't need KVM-over-IP, because their out of band rescue system based on Debian Stable can mount my root volume

honestly, I don't think I need anything more than what I have right now hardware-wise... OpenSimulator is a CPU hog, but I've tamed it for the most part. I could certainly use a better ping, but that's about it

I am.

Nope.

Sorry.

@allquixotic Well, don't pass this over without looking at it: ovh.com/us/dedicated-servers/enterprise/2014-SP-64.xml

@DarthAndroid do you have to pay all 12 months up-front?

I believe you do if you want the setup fee waived

@JourneymanGeek computerworld.com/s/article/9230882/…

Interesting

and you have to pay all 12 months up front afterwards if you want the 3-month discount

4K read and write are not random writes?

@DarthAndroid that looks great, but in order to be able to dd my current volume over the internet (which is ideally what I'd like to do, to avoid about 3 years of reconfiguring everything) I would need 1 TB more storage per disk

@sparkubullet Hybrid drives aren't all they're cracked up to be. From what I've heard, they don't use the SSD as a cache

@DarthAndroid meaning you won't get the discount the following year if you don't pay 12 months up-front?

that's a lot to pay up front :S I don't make that kinda money lol

@DarthAndroid They use NAND as cache.

@allquixotic It's more that after you've had the server for 12 months, if you purchase another 12 months (at once), they give you an extra 3 months

(and 1 free month if you purchase a 6mo contract)

Could you shrink your volumes on your hetzner?

@DarthAndroid yes, XFS can shrink I believe

Also.... couldn't you just partition, dd the boot sectors, and then rsync the rest?

meh

XFS grows, but it can't shrink

last time I did this (from a Hetzner server to another Hetzner server) I dd'ed the entire block device over SSH with rc4 encryption (faster than the default) and md5sum'ed on both sides

Now why would you pay company to benchmark your SSD specialized in SSD benchmarking? calypsotesters.com

i wonder if OVH has a promo code on webhostingtalk i can use :P

@allquixotic Let me know if you find one.

@DarthAndroid nah, no such luck.

i don't have the upfront money to put down on that, or else i totally would switch

and the monthly is fairly uneconomical in the sense that it's not worth reducing my ping by ~40ms to pay like $50+/mo more

OVH is the only provider that comes close to offering servers with as good a value as Hetzner's, but it has huge gotchas in the upfront cost

I'd have to cancel my Hetzner for a whole year and have no server just to save up the money to go to OVH

if it were just Cavil I could get a cheap $10 VPS, but it's really a multi-role box

I wanna get an SP-64, but not sure if I want to deal with splitting the cost to make it worth it vs. having to deal with the fact that I have to share the server

@DarthAndroid SP-64? o.o

ovh.com/us/dedicated-servers/enterprise/2014-SP-64.xml

@DarthAndroid heh, I'd split an SP-64 with yas :P shared access to the physical host with OpenVZ or Linux-VServer guests (the latter lets us run a modern kernel instead of 2.6.32)

need to get a special offer on the storage tho, to get more of it

MOAR I say

Eh, I'm currently using like 16GB of my existing server, the SSDs are attractive to me :P What's using up so much of your disk space?

@DarthAndroid files

pr0n

honestly, probably just a bunch of object files from compiles that i need to clear out

Think you could get it to fit into 1Tb-1.5TB?

if i trusted anyone to (1) have a clue what they're doing and (2) not snoop into stuff, i would pay someone to go clean out my files and get rid of junk like 1.2 GB of llvm source from 2011 with .o files

plus probably a lot more

i really don't have time to do that kind of stuff myself. plus i have an entire disk image of a REALLY old server with files i kinda wanna keep (my blog and such)

not sure i'll ever get that working though, might just pass a breaking point and rm the damn thing

although it does have irreplaceable images

i need to get that stuff onto glacier anyway

i need to dedicate some time sometime (as in, probably never) and really go through that and glacierify the irreplaceables and rm the rest

@allquixotic Do you have skype?

damn thing's like a Russian matryoska doll - I have disk images within disk images of old and old-old and old-old-old servers with about 2 GB of stuff i kinda wanna keep and hundreds of gigs of stuff i need to delete

@DarthAndroid yes but i hate it, and can't use it at work :P

I need to convert some of my stuff to disk images so they're easier to move around and boot up.

maybe i will just pick this weekend to clean up the server

@allquixotic Preferred IM medium then?

@allquixotic half an hour a day and it could be done by the time you die!

things will be a lot safer after i clean it up anyway... i'd love to have my stuff backed up on glacier

@MichaelFrank not quite that kind of task -- it takes concentration

it will take half an hour just to remember the magic incantations to get the disk image mounted (it's not a regular dd image, it's some backup program ugh)

@slhck what are you waiting for? do the needful!

the needful seriously need doing

@allquixotic I do the needful at least once a day.

(You can interpret that however you want.)

@slhck that's disgusting

@DarthAndroid I would say here, except that this isn't exactly at all private

@slhck That's got nothing on the 'balls connet to iphone4s' question I found lastnight.

@MichaelFrank That one was quite hilarious, yeah

probably just end up getting an SP-64 for myself and going month to month after i clear out hundreds of GBs of cruft and can comfortably live within 2 TB of usable space

i can afford it straight up month to month, but i'll see if i can't twist their arm to get me a discount ;p

if they won't budge at all, i might just resort to the path of least resistance, which is to do absolutely nothing and stay where I am

which has the convenient side-effect of freeing up a ridiculous amount of my time

let me know if you do get any discounts

honestly I barely log into my server anymore except to update Cavil

I might pull something similar

it's so stable that I have forgotten how to maintain it, or how I even designed it

probably need to run some security updates soon though (soon = next year?)

lol uptime of 412 days, no BUGs or WARNINGs in dmesg, just a bunch of short packet whines from the IP stack

i think i might do this in phases... phase 1 will be to get all my irreplaceable stuff onto amazon glacier, and de-junk the server... phase 2 will be to look for a new host...

phase 1: 2015, phase 2: 2016 :D

@JimmyHoffa not to slavedrive or anything, but... ZombieJS? :D

did you ever get access back to the server from Fox?

!! s/Fox/Bob/

@allquixotic No matching message (are you sure we're in the right room?)

ok, wut, replacement is borked

!! s/o/a/g

@allquixotic lal (source)

What do they store Glacier data on, actually? Tape?

@ChatBotJohnCavil wut? that was... eons ago

........

@slhck tape, with a reasonable amount of redundancy, and possibly some HDD caching, although that cache is fairly limited and not equal to the total storage capacity because download times of stuff on glacier are not guaranteed... it can take hours to get something out of glacier

its focus is long-term storage and reliability, and it isn't anywhere near a real-time file hosting mechanism like Google Drive or Amazon S3... it's pretty much for chucking archives of ooooold stuff to look at when you're on your death bed

penny per gig though, which is nice

@Braiam i know lol. it's so random that it had to pick that message and not something more recent

!! s/l/just testing/g

@allquixotic just testingojust testing (source)

same message!

@allquixotic glacier is $0.01/GB to store?

O.O

@DarthAndroid yep

but after how many GB?

(if I need a single GB will they allow me?)

@Braiam yep

> † Glacier is designed with the expectation that retrievals are infrequent and unusual, and data will be stored for extended periods of time. You can retrieve up to 5% of your average monthly storage (pro-rated daily) for free each month. If you choose to retrieve more than this amount of data in a month, you are charged a retrieval fee starting at $0.01 per gigabyte. Learn more. In addition, there is a pro-rated charge of $0.03 per gigabyte for items deleted prior to 90 days. Learn more.

@allquixotic Yeah, I know.. we're using it for backups of backups, but I haven't really looked at what's behind the scenes.

@slhck it's a wonderful service, really, and one of a kind at the moment

… like most of AWS :P

eh, EC2 isn't unique, though quite nice

EC2 is uneconomical for a 24/7 server though

Alternatives?

Is that $0.01/GB /mo, or just forever?

@slhck dedi :D

@DarthAndroid per month.

I'm already up to 86GB/$0.01 on Crashplan x3

and there's no retrieval restrictions that I'm aware of.

@allquixotic Dedi?

monthly?

@slhck dedicated server

Per month, yes.

Paid $4.99/mo (4yr contract) for unlimited storage, up to 10 computers

have 7 computers in use so far, with about 8.5TB of backup data

@allquixotic You mean, running at our premises?

I think they're prices have gone up recently though

Yeah, looks like they've doubled prices, but removed the 10computer restriction

@slhck not necessarily -- I mean, getting hosted remotely on a dedicated server

Did anyone upgrade their hosting to PHP 5.4 yet?

a 24/7 server on EC2 is going to cost a lot more for the same specs than a dedicated server

@DarthAndroid never heard of crashplan before -- thanks!

@allquixotic Ah, I see. Yeah, probably true. I've just had horrible experiences with that.

@slhck I haven't

@sparkubullet I did for a couple of projects recently.

@allquixotic Ah, it's amazing. I actually put my entire family on crashplan back in July or so. Don't have to worry about anyone freaking out that they accidentally deleted a file or their system crashed

@allquixotic Like, data warehouse literally under water.

@DarthAndroid I don't have enough upstream to keep that running 24/7 as a "continuous" backup, but periodic backups would be cool... any support for Linux?

@slhck Any plugins/scripts failures after that?

@slhck err... wut? tsunami?

@allquixotic Yes, Windows/OSX/Linux, if you have java7 available

@DarthAndroid sweet... headless?

> java

@allquixotic Yes, with a bit of work.

@DarthAndroid double sweet

There's a backend service and a control panel GUI

the GUI isn't really designed for it, but you can go to the config file and point it to somewhere other than localhost

wonder how much it would cost to get "remote hands" from Hetzner to have crashplan ship a seed drive to hetzner, have them plug it into my server and do the backup, then ship it back to crashplan

@sparkubullet Not from 5.3 to 5.4. Only from 5.2. to 5.3. That was horrible.

@DarthAndroid meh... xrdp it is then

Oh gawd, Hetzner.

@allquixotic You can limit the bandwidth if you want to wait a few months to complete it.

@Braiam Not that bad, just some pipe that broke or something.

actually i have enough upstream on my server that i could just push what i have on my server to crashplan in about 3 days

@slhck What happened then?

and i don't have that much data on my computer at home that i would need to put on crashplan

@allquixotic It's only the initial upload that is paritcularly intense

after that the data is both compressed and incremental / deduplicated

@sparkubullet Some sites weren't working but a patch was made by the vendor of the CMS. That was a custom solution though. In real life, all scripts you'd use would have already been updated and prepared.

Usually there isn't much to consider.

@DarthAndroid and there's no per-GB charge?

@allquixotic None.

@DarthAndroid T. I. L.

usually I'm here teaching other ppl

@allquixotic :) I've been pleased with their service, I'm happy to spread their name around.

my only complaint about them isn't really a complaint but more of humor

also Adobe

They also email you weekly backup reports (%complete, total data backed up for each computer)

@allquixotic Those companies' problem is security, not backups though

@DarthAndroid if you install their main desktop software on Windows, can you tell it not to backup stuff, or to backup only specific directories?

@allquixotic Yes.

good -- I don't want it backing up C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common

The way the backup stuff works is you check (one or many) folder to back up, and then uncheck folders inside of there that you don't want backed up

that's almost 2 TB of data that I can easily replace

I think that by default it backs up C:\Users\<current user>

(given enough time and the forgiveness of VZW)

oh, my C:\Users\me has plenty of data I can afford to lose, too

like AppData's Chrome folder... cache cache cache

do you use LastPass too?

I do not.

I use pwdhash

suck :P

O.o

my passwords are never stored anywhere but my mind

:P

pwdhash -> generate password on the fly from sha1(<input>+domainname of page)

that sounds insecure if someone knew <input>

same issue as lastpass i guess, since if someone knows my lastpass login it's over

@allquixotic double verification

@allquixotic yes, but on the other hand, <input> is easy to remember, and never written down or leaked anywhere

all my website passwords are randomly generated, and yours are one-way hashed, which may as well be randomly generated, except that if someone breaks the hashing algorithm you're in trouble

sha1 is broken, btw... it's not totally worthless, but it's been significantly compromised

well, what does breaking the hash matter?

you still have to know the result for it to be useful

and if you know the result, you can just type that in directly to the password field

@DarthAndroid which means that someone who breaks into forum.foo.com's phpbb database and recovers your hashed password could in principle get back to the original by doing input searches of <input>+forum.foo.com and looking for collisions

!!xkcd password

@Braiam xkcd.com/936

@allquixotic Would the collision that works for +forum.foo.com work for +forum.bar.com unless they found the correct <input>?

@DarthAndroid ...such a thing is not really feasible unless the hashing alg is very broken

sha1 is only somewhat broken

and not as badly broken as md5

In any case, they would have to a) guess that I'm using PwdHash (not lastpass or something that generates similar-looking passwords), and b) spend some dedicated cracking time to my password specifically

yeah

I'm putting a bit of weight on that last one

in a database leak of 1 million users

there are much, much easier targets

as always, social engineering is more important for successful intrusion than technological measures

the only downside I don't like about pwdhash is I can't rotate the passwords

yeah, i randomly go into sites like itunes and google and adobe and microsoft and change my password at least a few times a year just for funzies even if i have absolutely no reason to suspect anything

it's not like i'm typing in the passwords by hand (hardly ever) anyway, so i don't have to memorize anything

long passwords are inconvenient on android though

The thing I like is that I can still access my stuff even when I don't have any software

I can generate and use the passwords on my phone

@ChatBotJohnCavil Y U NOT ONEBOXING?

things that have the ability to debit money out of my bank account or credit card without my direct intervention get extra frequent password resets

or on another computer

@DarthAndroid same here