@allquixotic and a built in cold fusion battery?

@Psycogeek for 35 years of runtime per charge. yes

@allquixotic Alternatively they could declare that they are qubit-powered annealing chips and then sell blocks of wood assuring people that they were making their future ram faster by installing them, and make a mint. A mint.

Has anybody tried those glasses things for 3d? My video card supports it, but I can't imagine it's really worth much (or well supported for that matter)

@JimmyHoffa problem: unless I make my present RAM faster by installing them in the past, I won't notice the difference

@allquixotic That presents a minimal problem for the bank account of those selling blocks of wood as quantum annealing future-access-chips

@Psycogeek No. When I came home, laptop was on Standby. I turned it on and noticed how it was working but no display was on powered on screen. Screen feels fine so I turned off laptop and performed following procedure: I drained charge, booted laptop, performed procedure to access ePSA in-built testing feature of laptop. Since I could not see anything on screen due to no display, I could hear funny sounds:

@JimmyHoffa I just feel bad for those who spent $1000+ on a GTX TITAN for gaming, when really it's a compute card :P

for gaming it's actually worse than contemporaneous cards that cost $300 - $500 less

@JimmyHoffa 3d is the coolest thing since double sliced toast. you should definatly see it, play with it for hours and hours, its worth it. Then like everyone else just put jam on normal toast :-) Honest, i would pay another $100 bucks to have it at home, it would be like chrismas all over again. then it would sit there and rot in the corner like every other gimick.

@Psycogeek double sliced....?

I have "customer on-site warranty" which allows me to monitor technician's activities, but what if he decides to take it to the lab? I already had bad experience with HP's 3rd party labs in my country. Although I heard DELL are reliable so maybe I should let technician do whatever he feels correct with it? I am suspecting failed video adapter. Should I tell him to bring replacement with him?

@allquixotic yup you eat it in stereo :-)

@allquixotic Toast for people who put their pants on two legs at a time.

@JimmyHoffa I have a HDTV that supports that, and it came with the glasses, but it just serves to give me a headache... I tried it with Deus Ex: Human Revolution but it was not very convincing, and pretty confusing to my eyes

I'm wondering if there's any ISP experts around that can sanity check me on my statement I'm giving to our team that a download speed of 15Mbps should have an upload speed of at least 1/2 of that? or someone with 12Mbps down only having 600kbps up.... that seems off to me. What's the typical standard on home Internet up/down ratios?

plus.google.com/110056333349225246205/posts/8esnvEFDeha

@Boris_yo I dont know, your luckey to have that kind of support.

Those comments

@jmort253 there's absolutely no reason to think that an ISP would have to allow you to have 1/3 or 1/2 your downstream in upstream

I've seen 100 Mbps down / 5 Mbps up, which is only 5% upstream than downstream

@allquixotic Aren't their two types though? The shutter glasses that require a 120hz refresh screen, and then actual LCD-dual-display glasses?

an ISP could technically give you 1 Bit per second upstream and 900 billion terabytes downstream if they wanted to

because I don't have 120hz of anything in my house

it would be theoretically possible, though not a very useful connection

so if my card only supports shutter glasses I'm screwed

@allquixotic That's what I was afraid of..... we have people working from home with VOIP problems due to low upload speeds.

static on the audio and such. We're thinking Century Link possibly had an outage because there was such a huge difference in the speeds.

@JimmyHoffa there are more than two types; the 3d scene has a lot of incompatible half-baked technologies; none of them really work well

mine is HDMI 1.4, single display "shutter glasses" that require a 120 Hz screen.

@allquixotic That seems to be the common type these days. I just hate the idea of the shutter, I don't believe your brain doesn't notice.

Quadbuffer SDK and all that :-)

@jmort253 ADSL tends to be extremely limited on the uplink

I have a EVGA gtx 260 core 216, anybody can identify if that supports lcd-stereo-display type glasses?

@Psycogeek Do you think they can replace dedicated nVidia card? Will resetting BIOS void earranty?

My DSL is 1.3Mbps down and 650kbps up

So I always assumed it was 1/2....

I'm on the slowest Internet you can possibly get in the US and still call it broadband....

!!tell 11902920 no

@jmort253 psh, try ISDN.

in fact, as overall download speeds have been increasing, upstream speeds have only barely crawled up at a fraction of the rate of download speeds

to get significant upstream you either need to move to a location that has Google Fiber, or buy "Business" services for about 10x the cost of home internet

the global share of internet upstream is basically akin to the global economic wealth distribution

99% of the people get the bottom 20% of the upstream, while the top 1% get the remaining 80%

which is why you can get an unmetered symmetrical 1 Gbps server in a datacenter for around $80/month (the cost of the port, not including the cost of the machine)

all the upstream is concentrated in datacenters and flows outward, so consumers are expected to consume (not generate) content, and datacenters are expected to produce content and push it upstream

@jmort253 with comcast here they provide a very high speed download, with a barely usable upload. A person has to get a "business" kind of line to get a very good upload speed. I get some 3.5MB kind of download, with a mere .5MB (i think) upload. today says 28.9Mb/s and 5.9Mb.s (little b)

@allquixotic To be fair that 1% is supplying the upstream that makes it to the downstream for the other 99%. Upstream ratios are rationed out based on what is generally needed.

@allquixotic Makes sense.

@jmort253 actually it's a very backwards and anti-equality way of distributing a resource, but that's what it is -- I'm not claiming I agree with the system -- I think it's absolutely appalling

The ratio of upstream to downstream has nothing to do with hardware to my knowledge, it's simply an affect of how ISPs portion things out. As far as infrastructure goes upstream and downstream are the same thing, it just differs based on your perspective

@Psycogeek 5.9Mbps sounds pretty good though, like enough to transfer outgoing voip traffic.

(please call me out if I am totally wrong about this)

We have people with 600kbps.

@JimmyHoffa Yeh, it seems like it's all over the map, I just thought that some upload speed was needed to balance download speed.

for instance, a mouse chewed up my Internet line to where my downspeed was reduced to 800kbps and my upload was non-existent.

I couldn't load pages, not because of the download speed, but because of the upload speed.

@jmort253 well TCP downloads require a periodic "ACK" packet in the upstream direction, meaning for HTTP, you are effectively limited in your downstream by your upstream if your upstream is below a certain fraction of your downstream, but since ACK packets are a constant size, that percentage can decrease as the downstream increases

The browser couldn't send the handshake back to the server....

you could still send (unreliable) pure UDP one-way downloads at the rated downstream though

@allquixotic Makes sense.... working with VOIP and SIP, I see those ACK's your talking about...... makes sense, thanks.

So I guess the question we'll need to answer is how to get people at least 2Mbps up....

@JimmyHoffa upstream and downstream are NOT the same thing as far as infrastructure goes -- it is much harder to negotiate peering agreements for egress than ingress -- much of ingress can be cached at the ISP datacenter level, allowing the ISP to effectively LAN/WAN out the common stuff at zero peering cost, but upstream can't be cached by the ISP because they don't know what you're streaming out

@Boris_yo I thought on laptops those chips are locked in pretty good? even if the cpu and ram is changable. You should be able to reset a bios at aytime without voiding a warrenty. unless the service guys would say not to, anytime they are going to continue to provide such services for you.

@allquixotic makes sense....

the reasoning is that the bulk of ingress is the same content being fed to multiple users, so you just set up caching nodes at various levels of the infrastructure, and you don't have to make appropriations for true end to end bandwidth at the advertised rates for all content (and thus reduce your overall end to end load and peering requirements)

but the bulk of egress is unique user-created content that isn't being cached anywhere except perhaps at the endpoint level

also on some PHYs it can be physically harder to transmit upstream than downstream -- cellular broadband for instance; the tower is connected to the mainline power and doesn't care how high of a TX energy it needs to send its data, but the cellphone relies on a small limited battery and having to boost its TX power will harm battery life

because receiving doesn't take any energy, you just monitor whatever passes over your antenna

> Your add-on, Chat Reply Helper for Stack Exchange sites 2.1.0, has been fully reviewed by an editor and is now available for download in our gallery at addons.mozilla.org/addon/se-chat-reply-helper

Weeee \o/

@OliverSalzburg poor Lizard...

@Psycogeek Well, when resetting BIOS to defaults, it will switch back to Intel integrated card from Nvidia dedicated. Then I it might work but I will no longer be able to use nVidia. I will have to switch back to nVidia to show technician that dedicated card fails, right? But since switching to nVidia, I will not be able to save changes in BIOS due to blank screen. I just want to have nVidia replaced no questions asked if it is indeed failed.

@Braiam The whole comment conversation is painful and hilarious :P

@allquixotic Good point.

@JimmyHoffa Netflix is now trying to shove caches into ISP field offices so that their traffic is fewer hops (anything that's fewer hops is a huge win for the ISP, especially if it doesn't have to go out over external tier 1's lines)

@allquixotic Reminds me of what they did at post offices back when mail was still their main thing

complains about backups which at 108MB/sec take hours. (I know, luxery problem)

@Boris_yo I might be a person would would set it Back into the complete failure mode :-) before a tech arrived. so they do not sluff off what happens, and think that you are able to function still, limping along. I would also be playing with it like your indicating so when they do arrive, I know if it is going to be intermittant or not. It is a royal pain in the butt when you send something in and they do not see the problem. But you know it is there, before they got it.

@JimmyHoffa fact is, most home ISPs these days are over-provisioned... frighteningly so... I mean if you were to consider a scenario where every subscriber was downloading and uploading at max speed, it would effectively be a DDoS scenario, every ISP network would collapse and only operate at ~1% of advertised speed due to congestion

and that's with things like ISP-level caching

@allquixotic I've heard this time and time again, I don't believe it. Every analysis from people at the IETF or other experts I ever read said the exacty opposite

Well I take that back

over-provisioned, yes

but not over-utilized

Hi there folks! I've got my PC connected with a standard 3.5mm jack to some speakers right now but I think my PC speakers also support optical audio. Is there anyway I can also use my PS3 with my PC speakers?

what is the best way to make the battery on laptop last long?

not use it at all?

@JimmyHoffa you're thinking about the public internet's inter-routing infrastructure, the tier 1 mains

the actual usage they see is a miniscule amount of their provisioning

@EinsteinsGrandson Don't use it when possible. :)

I'm talking about the individual bandwidth of a given ISP

i mean using latptop on cable as often as it gets?

but i mean

Yes, use your laptop on the cable without the battery as much as you can.

2 scenarios

1. you use the battery once in a month....

for 3 years

@JimmyHoffa right, but what I'm saying is, IF everyone were to utilize all the bandwidth they're technically "allocated", it would massively over-utilize the network of that ISP (which would probably not bring the whole internet to a halt, but it would definitely impair that ISP's network)

Your battery will never degrade at a noticable rate in that scenario.

2. you don't use the battery at all but it is plugged in in the notebook for 3 years

@allquixotic The comcasts and centurylinks of the world are not far from the mains, and they have the infrastructure to support far above what they actually do

@Boris_yo Being able to factually demonstrate the failure, would be important to getting it fixed. OR if nothing is actually wrong, it would help that you know how to control it, and how and when it happens.

@EinsteinsGrandson Having the battery actually IN the laptop harms it due to discharge over time to my knowledge.

@JimmyHoffa but that's measuring actual usage, not peak theoretical usage based on all the bandwidth they've "promised" their customers

@EinsteinsGrandson Although, realistically if my notebook is a good one and I intend to use it for 3 years I find it easier to just use it how I want and pay 60 bucks to replace it in a year.

@allquixotic Yeah, but that's well known and basically impossible. (Though it would make a fantastic way to commit a user's strike, and I mean that in a labor-rights way, on these over-controlling monopoly's that need to be fecking divested)

@EinsteinsGrandson It is, so it's a lose-lose.

so what is the best strategy?

@EinsteinsGrandson Most batteries need to be run down once a month to 0 and then recharged

yes

that is what i heard

@JimmyHoffa actual usage is low because people are helpless, powerless content consuming sheep, and on the whole not creative or driven enough to produce their own content and publish it (hosting a website at home, streaming video, etc)

1 in a month

@allquixotic I know, I said I agree they are wildly over-provisioned, that's the way they do it for good reason and at no honest risk because they never see but a tiniest fraction of their provisioning active concurrently

to discharge it

Ask yourself: Is it neccessary to babysit your battery?

Or is it easier to just shell out 50 bucks for a new battery when it comes to that or worry about it 24/7

@allquixotic Also because the height of most people's internet usage is browsing the bookface and posting pictures of their cat wearing hats

@VaughanHilts what... I don't even... I mean, if your speakers have an optical jack and your PS3 has an optical out, you plug the PS3 into the speakers, and then....? your speakers probably would make you choose between the two, not mix them together at the same time...

i can invite a girlfriend 4 times for a dinner for those 50 bucks!

;o)

@allquixotic Yeah, it has optical out... I don't need to mix but I do need a way to choose..

@EinsteinsGrandson what is that? stop speaking foreign words in here

or maybe once to a luxurious restaurant

;o)

@Psycogeek So you advice to not mess with laptop and call-in technical support so i can reproduce the problem or give some necessary answers to questions that would help get laptop fixed?

@VaughanHilts do your speakers have some kind of switch to choose? if not, what's stopping you from plugging in both and see what happens? it'll have to choose between one of the two itself, absent a switch, and then you'll end up plugging and unplugging all the time

50 bucks for 4 dinners? Where are you shopping / living :

prague...

@allquixotic What's stopping me is the lack of the cable

it's cheap

i go to have a lunch in a restaurant for 4 bucks

;o)

@EinsteinsGrandson keep it 1/2 charged, and in a cool location. then "maintance it" every 6mo, by using it to check if it is working, keep up with any new calibrations, and to insure that it is stored low, and not stored dead, which would be bad. at some point it makes little differecne because a li-ion cell item will die over time anyways. (some lapies use the battery as suplimental juice even when on power, for the hard stuff, so that also can be a concideration)

@allquixotic Zygohistomorphic Prepromorphism? What?

@VaughanHilts well, in the worst case, absent a switch, you're going to be plugging and unplugging cables as you switch between PC and PS3 -- so if you can live with that, you might as well go ahead and purchase a cable

i will just use it as little as possible.... once in a month

discharging and charging again

or purchase a sound system with an actual output switch

@allquixotic I only have one wall outlet and I fear a seperate sound system is probably going to blow too many amps. :)

Or I defintely would have

Although, it seems like I don't have optical out on these like I thought... only red and white AUX cables

i'll post a question. :)

@Boris_yo One or the other, either fix it, or call in support. But if you fix it, it is going to be hard to show support what the problem is. that is all i am saying. If you expect to get it replaced for an intermittant problem, if they dont SEE it, it didnt happen, or it was a user error.

Does that look dodgy? 247techies.com/laptop-support.php

!!tell 11903532 yes

Who is aware of good forum specializing in laptop troubleshooting?

I don't understand real people anymore :(

That site takes dodgyness up to 11

Dodgyness: over 9000?

@Bob github.com/mozilla/shumway

fast paced development :D

@Boris_yo Do you know how the 2 GPUs are supposed to come up? which one uses which connection, and what settings in the bios effect the operation of one or the other? Have you become skilled enough with the operation of it to be using one or the other at will? Do you know all the bios items which incur any redirection of the signals, where the Video should be comming out and all that famliarisation with the hardware? Or did you just want to use it :-)

On my desktop, i just find the big "turn that shit off button, because I already know it sucks" and stick with one plan :-)

@Psycogeek There's nVidia Optimus feature in BIOS which decides when to use dedicated graphics card i.e by default Intel integrated graphics card works in Windows but when it comes to 3D applications, games that's where Optimus activates dedicated graphics card. But I don't use that feature and set nVidia on default to always run.

@Boris_yo In a laptop the intel taking the easy stuff, then the nvida taking over for the high end 3D should really be advantageous to battery? When you lock it down to the nvida only, is it through the same video connection as before?

@Boris_yo Do they have this worked out that if you lock down the nivida it works in both bios and, then in the OS ? so do you have 2 "systems" that have to keep all this correct, the bios and doing it back in the low level hardware. then once handed to the os (or not handed to the os and still controlled by the bios). Does the computer have any Bios Updates available that specificly address any of the video issues?

@Psycogeek That's what I never understood. Do both video cards go through 1 connection or there are 2 connections? In scenario with nVidia Optimus when at Windows 7, integrated card does its job but nVidia replaces that when it detects 3D applications? Are they both active, where integrated is active and nVidia is idle until it starts rendering 3D?

Do Tom's Hardware always have this timing out?

@Boris_yo my understanding so far is , the nvidia is used to render the graphics, that final render is passed to the Intel on-Die GPU , probably direct into its "frame buffers" (because they say it is very fast and minimal overhead). With that method the connection point for the video is the same place. your always seeing the Intels GPU frame buffers. (but of course it increses the complexity a bit by doing that)

@Boris_yo On the desktop though, we can connect direct to the Intel GPU or the GPU card. Plus we could also use the soft method of passing the one to the other. Plus we could use both for monitor support. plus you can leave it on for just video encoding only . (to bad i couldnt keep it simple)

@Psycogeek So nVidia output passes through integrated Intel before result is passed to monitor?

@Boris_yo That is one possible method. I was trying to ASK you which method you were, or it is using.

@Psycogeek No idea but can be found out how probably... Maybe one needs to check nVidia Optimus documentation.

@Boris_yo sure the bios/uefi manuel info could be handy if things were described well in it. But it isnt described in human terms. more often it is described in hardware makers terms :-)

@Boris_yo Could you tell me how many Video connections you have on the computer? And are they labeled?

@Psycogeek VGA, HDMI

I could use VGA to check for video signal but no cable, no monitor. I tried HDMI but could not activate connection probably because I must do it from within Windows which I could not see due to display problem.

@Boris_yo plus you have your main Laptop screen.

I'm pretty sure the implementation is based on the rendering being offloaded to a headless nvidia GPU, which is then framebuffer-copied to the intel graphics adapter

(Which is how stuff is rendered with aero on other systems anyways )

not sure on the details of how stuff operates when it's fullscreen

I'm pretty sure the intel graphics adapter is what is connected to each of the video outputs and internal screen on the laptop

and is what is used by the bios

@DarthAndroid So it should be easy to "fallback" to using the intel GPU alone?

It is always using the intel GPU for directly driving any monitors connected to the system

if you have proper drivers, than applications or the OS can request that off-screen canvases can be created on the nVidia GPU

which are then composited together in the intel framebuffer

So, I'm not sure what you mean by "fall back" to using intel GPU alone

@DarthAndroid So piping the nvidia to the outputs they provide in these laptops, probably requires an OS driver ? (so a "software" issue, could effect that)

Yes. It requires the intel drivers and nvidia drivers to be fully installed

and the "piping" is done by windows, or at very minimum directed by windows.

you will not get nvidia acceleration at all in places such as the bios, or linux without proper drivers loaded

@DarthAndroid Intel and nVidia drivers of integrated and dedicated graphics card combination is only offered by laptop OEM who have both components on-board?

There might be optimized hardware to make the "piping" efficient, but it doesn't do anything unless the nvidia driver is telling the hardware "Copy canvas #6 from the nvidia GPU to 0,0 - 1920,1080 on the intel frame buffer"

@Boris_yo That is something I do not know.

@DarthAndroid So the bios itself, should always work logically, because they would keep that part simple :-) just one GPU going to its own output.

The only optimus system I have access to is my work laptop, which has the drivers managed by IT

@Psycogeek Yes.

@allquixotic Cool. I have leads right now in the area though. I'd rather not move terribly far unless I have to. :)

@DarthAndroid But how integrated card's framebuffers have enough memory to contain 3D rendered information pipelined from nVidia?

Basically, it will always use only the intel GPU unless all the drivers are a) installed b) working and c) the OS requests that something be rendered on the nvidia GPU

@Boris_yo intel GPU doesn't contain any 3d data from nvidia

it's just a flat image

And the intel GPu has plenty of memory to drive all the monitors

@Psycogeek But in my case there is no display in BIOS. Maybe something messy in connection?

Hell, driving 3 1080p monitors only requires a 6mb framebuffer

it's the off-screen compositing that will fill up memory quickly

@Boris_yo Question, you have no bios display, even on your main laptop screen ?

@Psycogeek No BIOS, no DELL's ePSA testing environment. (screen works though)

@Boris_yo Question, since this thing bailed out on you have you seen anything on ANY of the screens or monitors ?

(any of the computer stuff showing , not the light that we can see in the video)

@DarthAndroid You know, lined up right, you could run 3 projectors with no seams. That would be amazing.

@JimmyHoffa I don't think we have an open wall that big at my work :(

@Psycogeek Nope. Nothing.

@Boris_yo then how far up HPS butt can you shove the laptop, before you go buy one that works :-)

apparently my graphics card only supports anaglyph 3d. That's fun at least for $4 I just bought a pair of glasses so I don't have to spend the $100 to play with it. The quality I don't expect to be particularly good, but it should be fun all the same

@Psycogeek I don't think you can buy a working laptop anywhere inside of HPs butt

Pic stolen from dreamstime.com

@Psycogeek Is that a website for ants?

lol

@Psycogeek HPS? Wat

@Boris_yo I have read some recent reports where people seem to be REAL upset at HP over thier new laptops. If i was to search for that exact model what would i find?

@Psycogeek If you searched for "Dell latitude e6420" you would not find much. It's business class lappy.

its a dell or an hp?

@Psycogeek Ahhah! Gotcha! "Psycogeek's examination: suffers from ADHD"

It is DELL.

@Boris_yo i find 4+ star ratings and everyone happy, of the 5 people who bought them

@Psycogeek I am glad to hear it and I was happy also for 2 years until today. Something inevitably fails...

You just got a Dell w/ Attitude

@Psycogeek No that's Dell Latitude line. Right I misspelled first.

@Boris_yo it isnt supposed to fail till the warrenty runs out, and then you get to really fix it yourself.

@Psycogeek That is assuming you have appropriate components to swap around for troubleshooting. What if you don't? Pay laboratory.

@Boris_yo no pay small time local computers people who work hard in small shops and are under appretiated. Cause if they dont fix it, they got another one they just reassembled they can give you for $200 :-)

@Psycogeek We are talking laptops here, not desktops.

@Boris_yo what is different? same stuff just on smaller boards and shoved into tiny spaces :-) and soldered down, and not interchangable and overheated and . . .

@Psycogeek Not interchangeable

I will send you an old soldering gun and a blow-torch and some capacitors, You can fix it , i know you can.

and a 58pound Vga connecting monitor :-) so you can check the other outputs

@Psycogeek soldering gun + blow-torch? Solder the capacitors on, then blow-torch to heat-shrink the board?

@JimmyHoffa blow torch to get the chips off :-) lotsa pins.

Thats how you make a Blazing fast computer. Or at least the blazing part.

@Psycogeek I still think it's an effective heat shrink technique, once done the whole thing fits nicely in a small baggy

@axrwkr Welcome to Root Access chat for Super Users! I am this channel's helpful chat bot. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help. For bot commands, type !!listcommands

@axrwkr it is likely to be a driver issue, were they 2.0 type or 3.0 type usb?

(or 2.1 i guess )

@axrwkr Do you see any unidentified devices or devices with problems in the device manager?

@axrwkr 8.1 uses those as extra OS bus-paths to increase your general computing speed, they're no longer available for non-critical-OS purposes.

@axrwkr 8.1 removed your humor core, also for improved speed.

@axrwkr If MS is going to eat crow, it's going to make you pay for it.

@JimmyHoffa next time try to tone down the awesomeness, nobody has anything clever to say since you killed the chat... :(