Root Access

Oliver Salzburg

14:01

@allquixotic Just ask yourself if you could see yourself subscribing to a tag. It makes sense to subscribe to questions tagged windows-8. Same goes for networking. communication not so much

allquixotic

@terdon I don't need to read the tags to know that the question is about or related to networking; furthermore, if I actually tried to search for networking using the built-in search engine, I'd get so many hits that only about 0.0001% of them might be relevant to my problem

terdon

@allquixotic both true, but I think we need some generic tags, if only to sort high level stuff into.

allquixotic

@OliverSalzburg perhaps, but I haven't ever seen a question about "communication" on SU that's on-topic and not about computers communicating... it seems like the devs could've either burninated that tag, or automatically just made it a synonym for networking, no?

terdon

@allquixotic anyway, come on, you saw who made the edit. :)

saw

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic Feel free to request that on meta. But given that the tag isn't used right now, it'll hopefully just die silently

allquixotic

14:03

something like:

if question contains communication tag { burninate communication; if question doesn't contain networking tag { add networking tag; } }

I only get 20 edit reviews per day, and I use them, and I'd be much happier if I got to use the majority of them on substantial grammar or content edits / improvements rather than wonea's tag changing frenzy... but I've said many times what I think about tags, and apparently I'm not the only one who dislikes them

I end up clicking "Improve" and further improving suggested edits about 90% of the time if it's not just tags, too, so I'm also adding content as well as approving

terdon

What @allquixotic said. Exactly.

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic I think a tag synonym would be a slight improvement here ;D

terdon

No but the flood of lowish rep users doing tag renaming can get really annoying.

Instead of approving 'real' edits that fix an error in the content or explain something useful, we have to wade through loads of re-tagging.

Which is also useful but not as much as the juicier edits.

allquixotic

don't you get unlimited, instantaneous tag rename edits after a certain amount of rep? I have never tried it. I assume it's like any other edit (of which I've made many) which take effect instantly

terdon

I'm not sure if they're unlimited but you can re-tage by hovering over the tags.

allquixotic

14:10

I think the mods should encourage mainly high rep users to re-tag things, i.e. people whose edits don't have to go through the review queue

terdon

Yes.

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo The natural Oil is best for you, stuff that comes out of the ground , put in your own well today.

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic Just upvote him to 2000 rep ;P

allquixotic

superuser.com/help/privileges/edit

terdon

@OliverSalzburg has he posted any actual content? I haven't checked/

allquixotic

14:10

@OliverSalzburg yeah, because I can unilaterally do that, lol

@terdon he has almost 1400 rep, which is nothing to shake a stick at; he's above the extremely long tail of 1 - 100 rep users; but he's got a ways to go to instant edits

terdon

27 answers -> 1400 rep!

No, seriously, that's not normal.

Oliver Salzburg

@terdon I just looked him up

terdon

The vast majority of the rep is from approved edits then.

That's an issue.

allquixotic

@terdon well, he stopped gaining rep from edits a long time ago

I've been reviewing his edits for days and he's been at 1393 or something like that

if he were still getting rep from edits he'd be over 2000 by now

terdon

Ah, I thought that stopped at 2000 when you started to be able to edit with no approval

still, that rep seems excessive

27 answers/11 questions, nothing with a score over 7 and ~1400 rep! :)

Psycogeek

14:16

they asked people to help cleanup the tags he did.

allquixotic

yeah I don't blame the user, just the process

terdon

@Psycogeek absolutely, I am sure this is an honest attempt to be helpful

Nothing against the user whatsoever

allquixotic

i feel like jmangeek already started a discussion on meta about tag cleanup yesterday so I'm loathe to post another question about it

terdon

It does seem like a bug though

If rep is "a measure of how much the community trusts you and blah blah", getting so much rep while adding so little content is a problem

Journeyman Geek

@terdon: I think tag cleanups isn't something that the system accounts for

They're an exception, and something thats really a community thing, rather than a SE-wide system thing

terdon

14:21

true

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek i failed to see the point in removing some of them, Server from server like or server included questions. stuff like that can be endless.

So i just skipped over the ones i do not "agree" with.

Journeyman Geek

@Psycogeek: and the solution to that would be to have a mechanism to freeze tags so people don't use them... and maybe not bump up edits involving those tags

Boris_yo

@JourneymanGeek My left knee hurts after running but the next day it is okay. I run in ASICS Patriot.

Journeyman Geek

but changes SE-wide are usually gonna take 4-6 weeks

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek 4-6 ~~weeks~~ years FTFY

Journeyman Geek

14:24

@allquixotic: its a joke on meta ;p

though

6

Q: What is the origin of "6 to 8 weeks" and is it really the Crazy Frog?

Last week I was watching a TV show. During a dialog, one character asked the other something like "So how long will it take you to do it" and the answer was simply "6 to 8 weeks". This led me to believe Jeff was just using a known meme and just applying it here, over five years ago but all my se...

I obviously meant 6-8 weeks

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek my suggestion/discussion to @slhck yesterday was basically that we should have suggested edits that only change tags not bump the front page

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: that sorta changes end up filtering through the community managers to the developers tho

Psycogeek

@allquixotic might be good, but the tag editor was also making some minor edits, could say he was doing his 2rep worth. Tossing out "thank yous" and fixing some minor spelling every once in a while. (i do not agree at all with removing accolades)

Journeyman Geek

or let folk tag suggested edits as "minor edits" but I think that was suggested before.

terdon

@Psycogeek Yeah, that's the thing, they're edits that I would normallyhave refused on the grounds of being too minor.

And I will be missing or unable to approve edits that actually make the content of a q or a clearer.

allquixotic

14:28

@JourneymanGeek I know, it requires code changes, but getting moderators on various sites to support it makes it harder for the devs to say "sorry, can't do it due to performance considerations"

basically it needs a lot of widespread support before the devs will get up off their lazy you-know-whats and do something actually suggested by the community

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek Well... No well in my location.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: not so optimistic on that ;p

for example review audits. I'm quite sure lots of people outside SE are spewing bile about it.

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo they find oil everywhere. earth compressed biological stuff, just look for the mass graves and stuff, seek and ye will find. Remember they even found oil in the dead sea?

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek they're pretty NIH, too

"ideas from other people who don't work here? pah! we're the best and the smartest on the entire planet; Joel Spolsky told us so! if we didn't think of it, it must not be a good idea!!"

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo when that doesnt work, there is always Fracking :-)

allquixotic

14:34

@Psycogeek we don't need your frakking fracking!

@JourneymanGeek ^^ said in a Tigh voice

Journeyman Geek

lol

@allquixotic: I wouldn't put it that way, but there's some disconnect between the devs and users it seems, least to me

Psycogeek

@allquixotic thats fricking fracking to you.

Journeyman Geek

course, I hang around SF, where they've been venting about stuff for quite a while. I believe the words they use is "River of shit" when it comes to their front page.

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek most certainly is

terdon

Yes, but they're pros writing for pros, having newbie questions here is normal and desired I would think

Journeyman Geek

14:38

@terdon: well, the disconnect feels the most obvious there

;p

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek In graveyard? I am not necromancer.

terdon

@JourneymanGeek hey, you're almost there for the bounty! :)

Boris_yo

terdon

lol!

Boris_yo

The forgot word "shit". ^^^

Sammy

14:41

What do you need to do to make a Windows XP machine discoverable in a network?

terdon

@Sammy luck?

Sammy

:)

terdon

sorry

Sammy

I guess...

Journeyman Geek

@terdon: thats up to the op tho ;p

unless you mean the automatic half-bounty

terdon

14:42

@Sammy I am not a Windows person but I seem to recall they changed the default workgroup name after XP, could that be your issue?

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek I don't feel that disconnect with community moderators or diamonds, I feel like I can get through to them and express my opinions and have them considered, but the devs are in a completely different category, as well as SE staff members who aren't devs

terdon

@JourneymanGeek nah, was just a subtle hint to get people to go and vote up the ridiculous amount of effort you put into that :)

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: community mods are users like us ;p

Psycogeek

@Sammy From what they are telling me if you get the (highly insecure) XP anywhere near the net, it will be discovered :-)

terdon

@allquixotic you are a community moderator (>10k)

Sammy

14:43

@terdon I don't think so. It's "WORKGROUP" on both and I can ping between them.

Journeyman Geek

there's also the community development team, but I'm not really familiar with anyone other than grace note or aarthi (who was cool), and aarthi left

allquixotic

@terdon yeah I guess ;p

she did? wow

Journeyman Geek

yeah

Sammy

@Psycogeek I would hope so! :p

Psycogeek

@Sammy even though the reality is that every security item for the other Oses is being fed also to updates for XP. (if it applies)

allquixotic

14:45

@JourneymanGeek do 20k trusted users still have limit of 20 reviews per day?

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: yup ;p

Sammy

@Psycogeek It's strange because I can see the Vista computer on XP, but not the other way around.

Journeyman Geek

I don't usually blast through all of them tho

I actually spend more time on chat ;p

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek that's lame - they should add a new privilege that removes that restriction

Sammy

I mean is there something like "enable discovery" in XP?

Like you do in Vista?

"Network discovery"

Journeyman Geek

14:46

@allquixotic: I DO have a crapload of flags...

something like 99 or something

Psycogeek

@Sammy Well all systems that came after XP, had much better reasons to be on the web, and interconnect, and all that good stuff, so they can go to the MS store :-)

Sammy

@Psycogeek So that's a no then?...

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek I know, because you would flag a question just for having a :( in it

:P

NO FROWNY FACES! THAT'S HATE SPEECH!

Psycogeek

@Sammy I dont know, I spend more time securing stuff than connecting it. I could only tell you how to break it.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: lots of NAAs and Spam

Boris_yo

14:49

So when it comes to discovering other computers on local network, it can be automatically done using same versions of Windows. However not when different versions of Windows are used on computers? In that case how can you still discover?

Journeyman Geek

;p

@allquixotic: its REALLY hard getting a marshall badge once you're a high rep user XD

allquixotic

-3

Q: How do I play DASH files in Windows?

I have some DASH files that I need to play - how would I do this on a windows system? I'm running windows 8 64 bits

windows windows-8

Sammy

@Psycogeek Yes please... ^^

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek nice edit, I hope it doesn't get closed now

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: question still has one big ??? for me

@allquixotic: I'd vote to reopen if it were probably. Only if so I can work out what the hell he's talking about

Sammy

14:50

@Psycogeek I do get the prompt asking for user name and password when I do \\192.168.120.194\ but it doesn't accept the credentials I provide. I know they are ok.

allquixotic

it looks good to me, now -- basically it's the canonical "I'm trying not to make this a software-rec so I'm doing exactly what our community ~~overlords~~ moderators told us to do and reframing it into a How do I do this instead of What software can do this question"

Hennes

Witha -player ;-)

Sammy

@Psycogeek Can you tell me how to break into it? :)

allquixotic

I still don't understand the distinction between "How do I do this" and "What software can do this" -- because 99.9999% of the time, the answer is going to be "Use XYZ software"

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: its... splitting hairs

allquixotic

14:52

but apparently the canonical shopping question discussions on meta yielded the memetic "close shopping questions, or reframe them into 'How do I do this' questions"

Journeyman Geek

Originally it was "no shopping questions"

then, someone decided that software req questions were shopping questions

Psycogeek

@Sammy what do the logs show, surely there is a log being made when some outsider tries to log into the thing?

Journeyman Geek

then, someone realised there was a loophole most people were happy with

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek Diago, probably... he was super strict

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: actually no

Boris_yo

14:53

Good jump!

Sammy

@Psycogeek What log?

allquixotic

@Boris_yo great animation to put into a platformer video game with a main character of a cat :P

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: I THINK meta.superuser.com/questions/2088/… was it

allquixotic

that cat is strong, too, he pulled himself up using only his front arms

Boris_yo

@allquixotic Are you aware of such platformers?

Journeyman Geek

14:54

lol

Boris_yo

@allquixotic Yeah, even though I consider my arms a little bit pumped, there's no way I can pull myself like this that fast.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: oh. I might have posted the canonical reframing question

lol

@Boris_yo: you're not a cat

allquixotic

you also can't jump many times your height :P

Journeyman Geek

cats basically are beings of pure evil and spite, and as such are capable of super-feline feats of strength.

allquixotic

that cat jumped like 4-5 times its height

Boris_yo

14:55

@JourneymanGeek If I was cat you were to chase me around SU chat.

allquixotic

a human who could do that, could jump on top of his own house from the garden

Psycogeek

@Sammy event logs. Also when you setup the network on XP, did you use the wizzard? Never use the wizzard :-) but if you do, did you set up the "type" of connection? as in local or public style? what is there 3 types, home intranet, business intranet (as in corporate), and public internet kind of settings?

Boris_yo

@JourneymanGeek Vampires are such too?

Journeyman Geek

@Boris_yo: just not the sparkly vampires.

Boris_yo

@allquixotic Maybe Jackie Chan could?

allquixotic

14:58

Dear Valued Customer,

We have received your device.  It's now on the way to our technicians to be evaluated for the service you requested. To track the status of your repair, please use below link.

Customer Name: CUSTOMER, VALUED C.

Serial Number - 990001234567890
Tracking (RMA) Number: 1234567

Tracking URL - motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/repair/trackrepair

For any questions or comments, please contact us at 800-734-5870.

Customer service hours of operation are Monday through Friday from 7AM-10PM, Saturday and Sunday 9AM-6PM Central Time.

Sammy

Boris_yo

Then what kind of vampires were in Buffy?

Sammy

@Psycogeek Is that the wizard you speak of? :)

He doesn't seem trustworthy.

Psycogeek

@allquixotic whhhhhat? i thought you just got a new motorolla?

Boris_yo

@allquixotic You just exposed your serial and tracking numbers without editing them out? You don't think people can intercept your device?

Sammy

15:01

@Psycogeek If you mean the Network Setup Wizard then no, I haven't used that. I have just done clean install of XP SP2.

allquixotic

@Psycogeek I did -- my old one is in for repair so my mom can use it once it's repaired

@Boris_yo you really think my serial number is 990001234567890? and my tracking number is 1234567?

Psycogeek

@Sammy he can make a mess of your system for sure. Best to use simple methods like going to places called "advanced" Which in Microsoft words means "the only dam way your going to configure anything"

@allquixotic ohh, dont scare me like that.

allquixotic

my new one is sitting on my desk happy :D

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: your name isn't CUSTOMER, VALUED C?

allquixotic

it's actually smiling

@JourneymanGeek nope, it got my middle initial wrong. it's actually Q

Psycogeek

15:03

@allquixotic picture or it doesnt count.

allquixotic

@Psycogeek I can't take a picture of my smiling smartphone, using my smiling smartphone!

maybe in a mirror, hmm

Sammy

@Psycogeek OK. No, I haven't done any configuring really, except for user name, password, computer name and workgroup name. IP and DNS is set to Auto.

@Psycogeek Where is this "advanced" option you speak of? What do you use instead of the wizard?

@Psycogeek File and Printer Sharing is enabled, under Exception tab in Windows Firewall on XP.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gCoXJI6Nkzk/TxPNtMuFKnI/AAAAAAAABSM/… (If you haven't seen it before ;p)

Sammy

@Psycogeek I even tried disabling Windows Firewall. Didn't do a smack.

Psycogeek

@Sammy well auto is ok as long as something can hand you both an address DHCP and DNS. but you have communications, what your not getting is only authentication.

Sammy

15:06

@Psycogeek Yes, and I can ping between them. This has more to do with security policies I think.

It's just that all the settings are so different in XP.

Psycogeek

@Sammy Well many people would go into the proerties of the device itself, and adjust and see all that stuff in its raw form (as raw as a GUI gets)

Sammy

@Psycogeek Properties for network connection?

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek umm... not sure if i want to click that

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: heh, its just a picture of a mailing label addressed to "Journeyman Geek"

Psycogeek

@Sammy sort of, but it is more like tabs added to the device itself , not the devices own hardware properties, but the properties that the net junk has for it. Where all the configuration stuff is and the "protocols"

allquixotic

15:08

@JourneymanGeek haha, nice!

did they send you a shirt for a small dog/?

Bob

@terdon It's not?

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: well, that was a hoodie.

terdon

@Bob well it seems a little artificial since the rep does not represent useful answers/questions

Bob

I'm at 12.3k rep with 280 answers (and some questions that I didn't count) - on average, that's only 5 rep/answer lower than him.

And there's a limit to how much rep you can gain (total) from edit suggestions anyway.

terdon

280 > 27

Bob

15:10

@terdon 12.3k > 1.4k

terdon

By the way, I repeat in case you missed it, there is no doubt in my mind that there is nothing malicious here and the user in question is honestly trying to help

Bob

@terdon Oh, I'm just saying that the answer:rep ratio isn't really abnormal.

Anyone with a decent amount of rep probably has at least one answer that got a whole lot of upvvotes.

terdon

That's not what's abnormal, what is weird is that there is almost no rep from actual answers/questions there

The user in question has one answer with 7, nothing else even close

Bob

(also, suggested edit rep is capped at 1k... which is 500 edits. I don't think that applied to retag edits, though)

terdon

Yeah, look at the rep page, most of it is from edits. believe me I reviewed quite a few of them :)

Journeyman Geek

15:14

heh

@Bob: I think edits are edits

allquixotic

@Bob you have a better rep density than me

I'm at 13.1k rep with 401 answers

Bob

@allquixotic probably the bunch on questions that exploded :P

huh

they removed the retag privilege

allquixotic

I've been working on my peripherals, lately -- edits, reviews, and flags

Bob

wonea would be well above that level (500 rep) by now, if it still existed

@allquixotic yup, moving in that direction too

Braiam

@Bob now retag is called edit... whereas you edit a tag, it falls in the suggested edit queue

Journeyman Geek

15:17

53K, 1889 answers, 84 questions 1,706 revisions

some of which are really really trivial ;p

Bob

@Braiam the original intention when they removed dedicated retag was for edits that only changed tags to not fall into review if rep >500

but then the retag privilege disappeared

hrm:

6

Q: suggested edits adding minor tags

Say, there's a Java (C#, Javascript, etc) question involving array and tagged only 'java'. Two months ago nobody would lift a finger to add 'arrays' tag: the benefit is tiny, if it exists at all. Yet, last few days I've been noticing a lot of such edits and not sure what to do. Some users even g...

discussion suggested-edits

17

Q: Do we still need the Retag privilege?

Ever since suggested edits were rolled out, the Retag privilege has been a bit... Weird. You can retag questions at any rep-level, even with no rep (or account) at all - you just need a few people to approve your changes. Then suddenly, you don't - but any other changes you make to a post still g...

discussion tags editing

Psycogeek

@Sammy You have been there in the net devices properties, because that is where all this stuff is. The dns and the wins, and the ip address, and the gateway and all

allquixotic

@Bob maybe we can both run for half-moderator in a two-person campaign (like US Presidents running with a Vice President) and win out over @JourneymanGeek... combining our rep we have like 25k, which is significant, and lots of flags and edits and such... Vote for me and my running mate!

Journeyman Geek

lol

allquixotic

instead of having a full diamond we'd each have like, half of a diamond

Braiam

15:20

@Bob BOO! if I reject all those edits... then AU will stay forever with crappy tags :(

Bob

xD

significant:

> Editing tags only will result in the same behavior as retag, except for the message (low enough rep will put it in review queue for suggested edits, having the retag questions privilege will make it a regular edit.

Journeyman Geek

fun fact. I have 460 rep on webapps without answering a single question there.

Bob

but that privilege is gone. which makes me sad, because review floods.

allquixotic

maybe we need to expand our platform and have more running mates to take down the great @JourneymanGeek... i think throwing in @terdon and @KronoS as members of our cabinet would be enough to tip the scales

then we'd each have 1/4th of a diamond :D

Braiam

@JourneymanGeek err answering questions is different as asking questions...

Journeyman Geek

15:22

@Braiam: or asking. All my rep is from migrations from SU ;p

Braiam

OMG...

terdon

@allquixotic heh :)

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: assuming I stand in the next election, whenever it is ;p

Bob

5

A: Do we still need the Retag privilege?

I can easily strike out two of the reasons for keeping it: It can reduce the load on suggested edit reviewers somewhat While that may be the case, the current load on suggested edit reviewers is very manageable, unlike the load on close vote reviewers. It's still somewhat useful on sites (chil...

gurk.

@JourneymanGeek Sitting at 454 and slowly rising on SO - most of it (265) from a very basic answer to a simple question

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: most of my 'real' rep on SO is from stackoverflow.com/questions/15778239/…

terdon

15:27

@JourneymanGeek While this may theoretically answer the question, it would be preferable to include the essential parts of the answer here, and provide the link for reference.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek o.O

terdon

:)

Bob

not entirely sure if that question is actually on-topic :P

Sammy

Can someone find me x86 version of .NET Framework 2.0?

allquixotic

I gave up 100 rep for a bounty on SO, which really doesn't help me there :S I kind of suck on SO... and 99% of the time when I'm typing an answer, some scumbag types a 2-line answer that's technically correct but a lot shorter and gets all the upboats

Journeyman Geek

15:27

;p

Bob

@allquixotic Sorry :(

allquixotic

@Bob strangely enough I don't have that problem on SU

Bob

(in my defense, that was a 2013 answer to a 2009 question. short? yes. but it didn't need to be long)

allquixotic

@Sammy lmgtfy.com/?q=.net+framework+2.0+x86+download

Braiam

my only real source of rep in SO stackoverflow.com/q/15469763/792066 ...

Bob

15:29

@allquixotic For the rep ~~farmers~~ whores: less text, more pictures.

Journeyman Geek

lol

@Bob: QFT

Bob

@allquixotic and here I am yelling at people for sending people to lmgtfy

Journeyman Geek

lol

Psycogeek

@Sammy book mark this, oldversion.com its got every old in the book and was (at least befroe) reliable and not re-packed with evil.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Funnily enough, that's pretty much what my high school engineering teacher told us - he marks higher when there's more pictures :P

Braiam

15:30

653

Q: Fastest Gun in the West Problem

I feel like there's a problem with Stack Overflow, as the number of people prowling it increases. Each question's answers are sorted by descending score and then by descending time of posting. This means that if a person sits down and answers a question in a long, thorough way, going through eve...

discussion answers fastest-gun

Bob

I've found it applies in a lot of places.

Journeyman Geek

@Sammy: microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=1639

@Bob: I diagree there

I often get lots of rep for questions where the fastest gun missed the mark

Bob

@Psycogeek just keep in mind that it's often not quite conforming to the licences

@JourneymanGeek Hm?

Psycogeek

@Bob they pulled things where there was complaints .

Bob

Also, I have to ask. @Sammy, why are you downloading a .NET 2.0 redis?!

Sammy

15:31

@allquixotic Yes, but "Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0 Service Pack 1 (x86)". Isn't that only the SP?

Or is that everything in one package?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: fastest gun dosen't always get the most upvotes

everything in one package

Bob

@JourneymanGeek uhm. I didn't say anything about FGIW

I was talking about more pictures

@Braiam posted that link :P

Journeyman Geek

lol

oops

Sammy

@Bob A software I'm trying to install requires it. And I do like the number 2. It's a nice even number. :)

Braiam

@JourneymanGeek but is normally the "accepted" one...

Sammy

15:34

Microsoft .NET Framework Version 2.0 Redistributable Package (x64)
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=6523

That's the "redist" version of it.

Journeyman Geek

@Braiam: not in my experience

Sammy

But for x64 only???

Journeyman Geek

@Sammy: not x64 tho

Braiam

@Sammy SP's are made to install over the release version...

Sammy

@Braiam So what are you saying?...

Bob

15:36

@Sammy .NET 3.0 and 3.5 both include 2.0

Sammy

Is there no "redist" version of .NET Framework 2.0?

allquixotic

the other thing that annoys me about SO is that 90% of the questions here are questions that approximately 1 person on the planet can answer forcibly (the guy who wrote the software they're using), and over 50% of them are just flat-out library bugs where an implementation isn't doing what it was defined to do in the spec

Braiam

@Sammy right now... beats me :(

Bob

4.0 is a different CLR

You should just install 3.5. That will run anything targeting 2.0, 3.0 and 3.5

Sammy

@Bob CLR is what?

Journeyman Geek

15:37

common language runtime

Bob

Programs won't be able to tell the difference (unless they explicitly check for newer versions, which is stupid)

Sammy

@Bob Will 3.5 run on SP2 XP?

Bob

@Sammy Probably.

Braiam

@terdon askubuntu.com/q/348003/169736 D:

Bob

It will definitely run on SP3.

Which you should be using.

KronoS

15:38

@allquixotic O.o huh?

Bob

Common Language Runtime

The Common Language Runtime (CLR) is the virtual machine component of Microsoft's .NET framework and is responsible for managing the execution of .NET programs. In a process known as just-in-time compilation, the compiled code is converted into machine instructions that, in turn, are executed by the computer's CPU. The CLR provides additional services including memory management, type safety and exception handling. All programs written for the .NET framework, regardless of programming language, are executed by the CLR. It provides exception handling, garbage collection and thread manag...

allquixotic

@KronoS you'd have to read more of the context to get an idea :P

Sammy

@Bob Yeah, I know. I'm ditching SP3 for now because I want to test network authentication on original XP SP2. So I don't want to make big changes to it.

terdon

@Braiam :)

KronoS

@allquixotic tl;dr? I'm kinda too lazy to read that far back :P

Braiam

15:40

man, AU users are as clueless as could be a windows user... without windows...

KronoS

Oh if you mean mods, and mod elections, I'm pretty sure we're not having any anytime soon

no need for a new one. The moderation is being handled really well with current mods

Bob

@Sammy msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/8bs2ecf4.aspx

Sammy

@Bob The so called "NET Framework Service Pack 1" etc. are these Service Pack ONLY? Or are they full package Service Pack + NET Framework?

Braiam

WAIT! How many moods SU has? 9?

Bob

If you scroll down a bit, you'll see a table showing how the .NET Framework versions correspond to CLR versions.

Basically, any newer .NET Framework version will include all previous ones that have the same CLR version.

CLR version changes break things. Where the CLR version remains constant, it's only new additions on top.

Braiam

15:43

@Bob meaning that you have to install them all from 2.0 ...

Bob

@Braiam Hm?

It means 3.5 implicitly includes 3.0 and 2.0, since they're all CLR 2.0

Braiam

wonders how many .Net has Windows 7 installed right now...

Bob

.NET 4.5 implicitly includes .NET 4.0, since they're both CLR 4

@Braiam By default? .NET 3.5, which is CLR 2.0 and includes .NET 3.0 and 2.0

If you install .NET 4.0/4.5, you get CLR 4.0 as well

KronoS

@Braiam Ya 9. Which is plenty for SU

Sammy

@Bob Again, what are .NET "service pack"?

Bob

15:45

@Sammy not sure

Sammy

Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 Service pack 1 (Full Package)
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=25150

In this case it explicitly says "full package". So I guess this is NET Framework 3.5 + SP1 for NET Framework 3.5.

But there are others where it only says "service pack".

Bob

@Sammy stackoverflow.com/questions/1516040/deploying-net-2-0-sp2?rq=1

Sammy

Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0 Service Pack 1 (x86)
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=16614

Braiam

> incrementally upon .NET Framework 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, and includes .NET Framework 2.0 service pack 2 and .NET Framework 3.0 service pack 2 cumulative updates.

Bob

@Sammy Why don't you download it and find out?

Braiam

15:48

@Sammy that's the service pack if you have installed 2.0 plain/base

Bob

Also, .NET 2.0 SP2 is available. No point getting SP1...?

microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=1639

Braiam

you need SP1 before SP2!

Bob

@Braiam Some sources imply that the installers include prev. versions.

Braiam

is the microsoft way to do the things, don't argue and shallow it D:<

Sammy

@Braiam So what you're saying is, if I don't have .NET Framework 2.0 installed already, I will have to download and install:
1: .NET Framework 2.0 Redistributable
2: .NET Framework 2.0 Service Pack 1
3: .NET Framework 2.0 Service Pack 2

Right?...

allquixotic

15:52

@Bob fun fact: CLR 1.0 mscorlib APIs can be called from COM such as VBscript

Sammy

I will get the "Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 Service pack 1 (Full Package)" I posted above and see how it goes.

Braiam

@Sammy yeah... something like that...

@Sammy that sounds like a plan...

Sammy

@Braiam As I suspected then... thanks for confirmation. I could not locate the x86 version "redist" version of .NET Framework 2.0. Microsoft only hosts an x64 version of it. So I will go with 3.5 "full package" instead.

Braiam

> Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0 Service Pack 1 provides cumulative roll-up updates for customer reported issues found after the release of Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0.

Bob

@allquixotic That's not fun at all!

@Sammy I'd recommend you use the web installer if you don't actually need an offline install.

allquixotic

15:55

@Bob hmm, System.Reflection.Assembly is available in mscorlib.....................

Bob

That'll save you ~270 MB of downloads.

allquixotic

I could totally write a complete .NET WinForms program in VBscript if I dynamically load System.Windows.Forms dll

Bob

@allquixotic NO

allquixotic

I can feel your brain cells dying

Bob

:(

allquixotic

15:56

:)

Bob

Microsoft. Your site sucks.

msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/aa496123

> All .NET Framework Downloads...

(on the right)

WHY DOES IT LINK TO A SEARCH FOR ".net framework" OF THE WHOLE OF MS DOWNLOADS???

Braiam

@Bob because they are... microsoft?

Bob

Don't they, I dunno, categorise their bloody downloads?

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