Root Access

Bob

12:20

lol

name generator landed on "Sly Effect"

no real meaning, but it's halfway decent

"Radiant Kidnapper" O.O

Boris_yo

@Bob There's meaning for those who know Sylvester Stallone. Sly effect is when his fan likes so much him that he imitates his talking.

Bob

o.o

ok

that one's out, then

heh

nocturnaldeveloper

that could work

Gowtham

12:41

what o_0 theguardian.com/technology/appsblog/2013/sep/04/…

why the bloody hell does swiftkey need 11.2 million :O

Sathya

@Gowtham NLP & ML is hard.

Gowtham

@Sathya It's already real good ;p

Bob

eh

I'll stick with Swype, thanks

Gowtham

I am currently using Google keyboard ;p

I should buy Swiftkey ...

jokerdino

> Fedora 20 to be named Heisenbug.

Gowtham

12:45

Still better that KitKat

jokerdino

that's a cruel joke on Fedora.

Bob

@jokerdino the other names suck

jokerdino

No, Santa Claus was awesome!

Bob

@Sathya Hey, this could take the place of @WilliamHilsum's sad face in the room description :P

Sathya

@Bob :P

Kwaio

12:50

@Gowtham It was free on amazon store a few days ago

Bob

13:01

o.o

36

Q: What does Windows flag in the linux logo of kernel 3.11 mean?

I've just installed kernel-3.11.0-1.fc20 for my fedora 19 installation. During the rebooting progress, I saw the linux logo with a Windows flag in it, what does it mean? The fedora 19 is installed in an ASUS TX300CA notebook, secure boot is off, CSM (BIOS Compatibility Support Module) mode is on.

jokerdino

i seent the logo before.

somequixotic

13:17

Hi

jokerdino

18 hours ago, by somequixotic

I have to get emotionally invested in a question before I bother to answer or edit it

quick, someone star the original message!

somequixotic

nuu

Hennes

Ugh. I might just have posted the ugliest hack ever.

0

A: Copy a vdi of size greater than 4GB

Do you just need it split into chunks small enough to fit on a FAT32 filesystem so that you can transport or copy it? If that is the case, you can: Use split to split a file into pieces. Or use dd to do the same. Or archive it (e.g. multi-part RARs or multi-part ZIP files). If you need the VM...

multiple 4GiB files on FAT32. RAID those files into a large partion. Then format with something which is not FAT32

@Boris_yo That sounds like a virus scanner for OS X

Gowtham

@Kwaio wh000t !! damn missed it

Kwaio

@Gowtham That day, the 10 non-free most downloaded apps were free

Well i can't work anymore

Gowtham

13:30

wow

Kwaio

The bastion refuses my password, \o/

Psycogeek

13:56

@Boris_yo in your android system, dont you have a "backup" program to backup the APK things that you have now on the phone? so you can retract them that way?

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek APK things are app installers.

@Gowtham KitKat - overrated product. At one time I remember a heck of promotions about it. I was brainwashed enough to covet it's taste.

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo And backup programs for android (like back in 1.6-2.0) could save what you had installed as an APK, so you could re-install it without going online (ever) again.

Gowtham

@Boris_yo And Android 4.4 is going to have super minor update sigh

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek Yes it can... But this factory restore stuff gets on my nerves...

@Gowtham Last version of Android is 2.3.3 for my old HTC Desire S...

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo I thought you were having issues with being able to Retract a program back to the one you knew worked previously.

Gowtham

14:04

@Boris_yo :/

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo Wow so they quit updating it too. I would have never thought that a $600 phone would also leave you in the dust.

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek Not exactly. I was asking how I could revert app to one of its previous versions. Google Play repository has only latest versions.

That Brazilian Guy

@Sathya Who's exorcizing @Sathya?

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo and i was asking if a backup , that creates APKs of your present install would fix that. I will clarifiy, it backs up Your Programs as APKs, not the whole system

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek HTC are so obsessed over crushing out smartphone after smartphone that they forget about their older ones. I guess that's not the case with Apple's iPhones?

That Brazilian Guy

14:07

@Boris_yo If it is a system app, you can revert it to the version it came from factory. If it is a non-system app, you better had a backup.

@Psycogeek It is possible to retrieve APKs for currently installed android apps.

@Psycogeek play.google.com/store/apps/…

Titanium Backup does that and a lot more. It requires root. My android's been broken for 2 months, so I don't remember the name of the app that doesn't require root and does backup the APKs.

Psycogeek

@ThatBrazilianGuy needs root? Something i was using did not require root. so there are things you can backup still with it, that do not require root?

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek You're talking about backup app that backs up every new version of selected app as it becomes available? In this case one must have chronological order of app versions installed. That means having updates history so you could choose whatever version you want to revert to. That's one case, but there's another case when user doesn't have previous versions of apps available in backup because he never installed backup app that could be ready to make backups of incoming versions.

That Brazilian Guy

@Psycogeek There are free apps that won't require root and will backup your APKs. I have used a few. I can't remember the name right now. Astro File Manager would, in a way old version, but they seem to have rewritten it from scratch ages ago.

Boris_yo

@ThatBrazilianGuy My Backup PRO? Monster?

That Brazilian Guy

It will only back up the current version of the APK. It is impossible to revert or backup previous versions of apps (unless it is a system app, you can revert to the factory default and thats it).

@Boris_yo When I get home I'll check and message you

Psycogeek

14:14

@Boris_yo are you also getting Stuck with not being able to run many of the newer applications because of the "version" of android that your phone is on?

Boris_yo

@ThatBrazilianGuy No need I will find myself. Actually I have found but where do I get old versions now?

That Brazilian Guy

@Boris_yo You don't. Well, not from a reputable source AFAIK.

I'm obsessive-compulsive, so I have about 5GB of APK backups on my HDD.

Psycogeek

@ThatBrazilianGuy me 2 , i always have layers of backups for each system on my hard drives. delete them as the item finnaly hits the trash. rarely ever need them as backups.

Boris_yo

@ThatBrazilianGuy OCD disorder? How did it reflect on your situation with APK backups?

That Brazilian Guy

@Boris_yo I'm not, just kidding. Well, I do check if the door is closed about twice when I leave home, but that's all.

But it is not exactly sane backing up each and every APK for an app that gets updated, in the remote possibility that it might, maybe, who knows, introduce a bug

Boris_yo

14:19

@Psycogeek What's your opinion on TOSHIBA Canvio external HDD? 750GB is like $80.

Gowtham

@Boris_yo 1 Tb external HDD is 80 usd here

That Brazilian Guy

And then get a Windows app breezie.be/dev/localapk just to batch-rename the APKs

And then develop naming strutcutures to the APK files

And then include the app source in the filename

Boris_yo

@ThatBrazilianGuy Android app updates are known for their bugs rather than useful fixes. To many update with little usefulness.

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo toshiba started making hard drives? or whos hard drive is it really in a toshiba case?

Boris_yo

@Gowtham Shut up and take my money!

Gowtham

14:21

@Boris_yo cool ! I get a free HDD from @Boris_yo \o/

That Brazilian Guy

@Boris_yo Before my android screen broke, I was stuck for a few months with an unusable instagram.

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek Amazon > search > TOSHIBA Canvio

That Brazilian Guy

Not that I really need lots photos of young people posing in the mirror saying YOLO and "we're gangsta" and whatever.

Boris_yo

@Gowtham wat? No I meant buying.

That Brazilian Guy

But there were a few persons actually posting actual photos

Psycogeek

14:23

@Boris_yo I am looking, dont buy toshiba if you can get a comparable something else for 20% more.

Boris_yo

@ThatBrazilianGuy YOLO is a lie! You all have been lied to. You don't live once. You reincarnate until you learn life lessons. Only after achieving 51% of positivity you ascend.

That Brazilian Guy

@Boris_yo I just checked, a 1TB HDD here is 68 USD.

Western Digital WD6400AAKS

Gowtham

@Boris_yo :/

That Brazilian Guy

Seagate ST1000DM003 is $80

Only problem is, our salary isn't in dollars =/

Gowtham

hmm it's 61 USD here

And that's because of the falling rupee :P :P

Boris_yo

14:27

Why people don't like TOSHIBA? Compared to other brands, TOSHIBA at least doesn't have bloatware like virtual drive that is impossible to delete, one that includes software tools.

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo DUde i was 80% positive once, and i did not ascend, but then again i was not going to let go either.

Boris_yo

@ThatBrazilianGuy It's whooopees?

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo Tosahiba made cheap laptops , and had a very poor QC, and they ticked a lot of people off. ratings for whatever hard drives they are selling show that they still have some issues.

Darth Android

@Boris_yo I format and reinstall my computers after receiving them from the manufacturer, so as far as I'm concerned, nobody ships bloatware.

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek You can't know such delicate information. Even being hypnotized you cannot read that data of of your subconsciousness.

Psycogeek

14:30

@Boris_yo You mean my subconcience has to be 80% positive, not gonna happen.

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek Like Lenovo haven't lacked? They issues firmware after firmware for G560 Ideapad.

@Psycogeek I mean there's no way to know this information. But be positive, love your enemies (words of Jesus btw) and such you will get back aka law of attraction.

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo Like i had to hear so many horror stories about it, my subconcience would not allow me to send money in toshibas direction, even if it costs me more.

Boris_yo

@DarthAndroid I was speaking about external HDDs.

Darth Android

Toshiba makes harddrives? /joke

Journeyman Geek

lol

Boris_yo

14:33

@Psycogeek Know how to distinguish trickery from authenticity.

Journeyman Geek

@DarthAndroid: I keep forgetting about them myself

;p

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo sure it was all the other manufactures out there trying to taint the good name of the company .

Darth Android

I usually stick with WD or Seagate, +external enclosures if I need something external. Every Hitachi I've bought in the past 6 years is now dead (4 drives, 5th still spins up but has a ton of bad sectors, and I've been too lazy to pull it from the computer and replace it)

Gowtham

great -_- kitguru.net/components/memory/faith/…

Boris_yo

For those who don't believe TOSHIBA to be external HDD manufacturer and lazy enough to check the facts, look here:

Gowtham

14:36

Now ram prices go up

Boris_yo

amazon.com/Toshiba-Canvio-Portable-Hard-Drive/dp/B005J7YA3W/…

Psycogeek

@DarthAndroid Weird hitichi still named one of thier disks Deskstar , Why would they do that after the DeathStar fiasco?

John Cavil

@SpaceCowboy74 Welcome to Root Access chat for Super Users! Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.

Boris_yo

Hitachi and TOSHIBA are not the same, yes?

Darth Android

@Boris_yo Correct. Does Toshiba actually make the drive inside the enclosure, though? Or is it just rebranding?

Boris_yo

14:39

@DarthAndroid Only competitive Intel can show...

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo anandtech.com/show/5635/…

Western Digital will be allowed to acquire Hitachi’s 2.5” and SSD businesses, but not the 3.5” business. Instead Western Digital will be selling that business to Toshiba – factories and all – along with granting licenses for the necessary patents, which would allow Toshiba to effectively continue in the 3.5” market from where Hitachi left off. This would firmly establish Seagate, Western Digital, and Toshiba as the 3 major players in the hard drive business across all product segments

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek WD own Hitachi?

Psycogeek

I am sooo confused

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek First it says aquire Hitachi only SSD but then it says it will sell 3.5 HDD to TOSHIBA. How can you sell something you have not aquired?

Darth Android

Note to self, do not touch Toshiba's harddrives.

Boris_yo

14:43

@DarthAndroid Would you change your mind if I handed you 10f pole?

Darth Android

No. 20ft pole, electrostatically insulated or better.

Boris_yo

@DarthAndroid I think I will have it customly made...

Psycogeek

I need a hero newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131989 Buy or not?

Haswell , or back at the old tried and true sandy/ivy bridge?

Early adopters die early deaths from stress

Bob

@DarthAndroid Hm, why not?

Journeyman Geek

@Psycogeek confusingly they still sell hitachi HDDs, and they have a better reputation than WD

and are cheaper

Boris_yo

14:53

@Psycogeek Indeed like hero. Maximus from Gladiator! And if it stresses that much, send it to anger management.

Journeyman Geek

@Psycogeek: my asus is brilliant, went with a 'regular' z77 v when I built mine

(rog boards are slightly higher end)

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek I got drives from seagate during a time when thier models failed way more often, but now i have seagate again. i think it was best said once "Any Hard Drive Manufacture Can Have a "Bad Model" that fails way more often.

Journeyman Geek

@Psycogeek: I had 2 seagate drives fail in a month

didn't want to tempt fate ;p

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek oh great, the Terrabyte ones?

Darth Android

@JourneymanGeek Were they from the same batch?

Journeyman Geek

14:57

nope

completely different drives

one was the replacement for my original 7200.11 1tb drives (yes those). The other was a simple bad cluster on a 250gb laptop drive

amusingly I still use the latter for storing downloads

Darth Android

@Psycogeek I put a haswell in my mother's system that I built for her back in july, it's been doing quite well.

Psycogeek

@DarthAndroid the overclockers are complaining, because it gets hot, but i want to 15-25% overclock and stay cool also, I wonder if thier Heat issues are because they care about the last 2% overclock, and i never will.

Bob

welp

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek Which segate drives?

Bob

ah, the world of politics

and blatantly biased media -_-

Journeyman Geek

15:01

@Psycogeek: like I said, 7200.11 and some laptop one which had bad sectors and was replaced under warranty

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek ok thanks, i use the greeny kinda things with lower rpm

Journeyman Geek

eww

I'd never use greens on a desktop

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek raid0, the lower transfer rate doesnt make that much difference, and heat with many many drives did.

Journeyman Geek

I'd just use a SSD and single large strorage drives

my case handles up to 6

Bob

@JourneymanGeek stop reminding me :(

though, tbh, I've done benchmarks and Barracuda Greens are only very slightly slower than Toshiba 7200s

Psycogeek

15:05

@JourneymanGeek oh you did say, sorry wasnt paying enough attention.

@Boris_yo Well there is a Maximus too newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131854 do you think i would be better off with a gladiator than a hero? heros can have superpowers right? the other socket

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: my boot drive's an SSD ;p

and I use a VERY wierd jbod setuo

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek jbod a ssd to a HDD and shortstroke the system partition, weirdest hybrid drive in the world

Journeyman Geek

nooooo

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek that would be weird though right :-)

Journeyman Geek

you can't short stroke an SSD ;p

Psycogeek

15:14

@JourneymanGeek shortstroke an array

Journeyman Geek

you don't

you shortstroke drives ;p

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek I do. in raid0 with short first parttion = 2 drive team shortstroked too

Journeyman Geek

I probably get better performance, at lower cost off my SSD ;p

0

A: Ethernet and networking speeds as "500 Mbps Gigabit"?

i like turtles! also, i am very hungry!

whut?

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek Think about it though, it might just work JBODed|-------SSD system-----|-----SSD data-------HDD------| have speed for the whole system partition, speed for the first of the data drive, but still extended data space for the huge data drive.

Windows will just end up tossing data all over the Data drive wherever it wants, so it would be impratical vrses just sectioning off the ssd |---SSD system--|SSD Data--| Hd seperate

Hennes

I like turtle soup. Do you want to live forever, forever ... ?

That Brazilian Guy

15:29

@Boris_yo Actually we get paid in LOL$, it's a weird name because when we see the check we want to cry.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek You use WordPress for your blog, right?

Do you like it?

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek ""i like turtles! also, i am very hungry"" I like flags. Here, take one! – That Brazilian Guy

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: some aspects, some aspects less so

Its the options I went with tho ;p

I don't like how you compose and do posts

Bob

hm?

Journeyman Geek

on LJ or DW its basically a seperate page on the main page

in WP its inside the admin settings

Bob

15:38

I've only ever used Drupal before (as a site CMS, not for a blog). It was... okay, though some parts were incredibly frustrating.

@JourneymanGeek o.O

Journeyman Geek

well not admin settings per say

you log in and do it from the dashboard

Bob

@JourneymanGeek looks like there's a bunch of plugins that can change that

Journeyman Geek

yeah

its the one annoyance outside being forced to use mysql ;p

Bob

oh yea. mysql too.

fark.

I forgot about that.

Journeyman Geek

nothing against it specifically other than it needing loads of ram, and the rest of the stuff I want to run all happily running off postgres

Griffin

15:59

Wait who is the penguin guy I think his name starts with an S

somequixotic

hi

Hennes

Sunil ?

Bob

@somequixotic hi

somequixotic

@Bob you had to edit that message? :P

Bob

@somequixotic no. nothing to see here.

Griffin

16:01

No he is a mod

somequixotic

things are getting complicated in (J)Ruby land over here, omg

09/04/2013  10:51 AM            96,768 addressable-2.3.5.gem
09/04/2013  10:42 AM            17,408 afm-0.2.0.gem
08/23/2013  11:49 AM           131,584 aquarium-0.5.1.gem
09/04/2013  10:42 AM            10,752 Ascii85-1.0.2.gem
09/03/2013  04:12 PM            19,968 aspector-0.13.1.gem
08/22/2013  03:19 PM            25,600 childprocess-0.3.9.gem
09/04/2013  10:51 AM            22,528 choice-0.1.6.gem
09/04/2013  10:42 AM            10,240 clipboard-1.0.5.gem
09/04/2013  10:59 AM            44,032 dbd-odbc-0.2.5.gem

Psycogeek

@Griffin this penguin guy ?superuser.com/users/48078/slhck

somequixotic

we may as well say "our framework depends on the entire rubyforge gems collection"

Griffin

That one.

Bob

@somequixotic wtf

Griffin

16:03

@slhck Okay you know that question I flagged saying it should be opened? It was denied for this reason: declined - flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer

I'm pretty sure I flagged it for re-opening...

Psycogeek

@Griffin I believe that closing and opening is done with Close and open votes, not flags.

somequixotic

@Psycogeek you can still flag a mod to reopen a question bypassing the non-diamond-mod reopen vote queue, but those are technically lower priority flags than, say, spam flags, because regular non-diamond mods can reopen it if there are enough votes

Psycogeek

@Griffin the community thing is now mostly determining if a "normal" question is closed or not. Mods are concentrating more on spam , malicious intent, and big problems.

somequixotic

I'm a non-diamond moderator just due to my rep, and can vote reopen and sometimes do

Bob

This also works on OS X since, for example Mountain Lion, ships with PHP 5.3.15. Or If the OP wants to install a server nonetheless, MAMP would be a good solution since it's rather isolated from the OS and can be removed easily. — slhck Jan 8 at 18:58

wat

OS X ships with PHP??

why on earth...

Psycogeek

16:12

@somequixotic Right, and @griffen is being tossed on the mod flags, with the idea that peoples like you and me who can vote to open, could handle it. I donno.

somequixotic

@Bob well, every OS has to ship with a WTF language; it's required

Windows ships with VBScript

Hennes

The only reason to ship OS X with PHP is the same as shipping windows with flash: You are getting paid to install vulnerable software

Bob

@somequixotic So... what's the WTF language on Linux? :P

And OS X already has AppleScript, remember?

somequixotic

z/OS ships with COBOL

Bob

The king of WTF languages?

somequixotic

16:15

@Bob er... PHP? depends on your distro package choices though; you can't say "Linux" because if I just unpack a Linux kernel binary into an ext2 partition with an init script that launches busybox, I don't really have anything, but it's "Linux"

I think if you install a CentOS server you might get PHP by default, though, so that's what I had in mind

Bob

@somequixotic True... lemme rephrase. Ubuntu/Debian? CentOS/RHEL?

I'm pretty sure Ubuntu/Debian doesn't come with PHP.

They do have apache, though

Which I'm currently in the process of removing for nginx

CPU model :  Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1240 V2 @ 3.40GHz
Number of cores : 4
CPU frequency :  3400.067 MHz
Total amount of ram : 1024 MB
Total amount of swap : 1280 MB
System uptime :   6:15,
Download speed from CacheFly: 18.0MB/s
Download speed from Coloat, Atlanta GA: 24.3MB/s
Download speed from Softlayer, Dallas, TX: 44.2MB/s
Download speed from Linode, Tokyo, JP: 10.9MB/s
Download speed from i3d.net, NL: 8.17MB/s
Download speed from Leaseweb, Haarlem, NL: 6.30MB/s
Download speed from Softlayer, Singapore: 7.31MB/s

Not bad at all.

somequixotic

o_O

you have an E3-1240?

Bob

@somequixotic It's a VPS.

$19/yr

somequixotic

oh :)

Bob

Anything significant about the CPU? :P

somequixotic

16:19

I was like, damn son, that's expensive pr. month

Bob

ah lol

can't quite afford a dedi

somequixotic

@Bob nah. Xeon Ivy midgrade. decent!!

Bob

though I'm pretty sure all my VPSes put together is already halfway there

actually, lemme see

somequixotic

you and needing AUS servers :'(

Bob

@somequixotic still looking for one :\

somequixotic

16:21

are there any places outside of Oceania with decent ping to you?

Bob

nah

US west coast as about as good as it gets

somequixotic

hmm

Bob

most other places in Europe and even sometimes Asia get routed through the US :S

somequixotic

lol

Bob

there's a more direct cable to SE Asia, but it's nowhere near as big as the US ones

somequixotic

16:22

bandwidth is costlier on that cable I bet, so they use it less in ISP routing

Bob

probably

jokerdino

isn't there one through the Mediterranean?

Bob

still, it means I get your latency + 200ms RTT for any locations outside Oceania.

somequixotic

hey, you'd have a great link to JourneymanGeek and jokerdino if you got a VPS whose DC sits on the SE Asia fiber :D

then VPN/proxy into it

Bob

@jokerdino yea, that's the SeaMeWe-3

goes to (and through) SE Asia

jokerdino

16:25

@somequixotic lol

Bob

@somequixotic I've done ping tests on some of those - still worse than LV somehow

somequixotic

o_O

Bob

well

somequixotic

software? CPU load?

Bob

some Singapore providers anyway

not sure about their ISPs

somequixotic

16:26

I was thinking more along the lines of "forced routing" through the SE Asia link by getting a local-ish dedi or VPS that sits on that fiber and routes through it, then VPN up, essentially bypassing the US to get to SE Asia and Mediterranean and from there, Europe

a friend of mine in Singapore a long time ago needed to hit the US west coast with decent ping and bandwidth, and they did forced routing through much better fiber by VPNing into a local Singaporean dedi server, and their throughput went from 4.3 KBps to 3 MBps

judging from the quality of their ISP, they were probably routing them through the international space station to get to the US

2

slhck

@Griffin Hm, that must have been a misclick because the option only applies to answers, as you can guess.

Bob

this is pretty awesome:

imgur.com/a/9rzlL

@somequixotic with my luck, I'll still be routed through the US

slhck

@Bob Why not? It's quite useful to have.

Not that I'm defending PHP though, it sucks big time :D

somequixotic

@Bob dubious: imgur; no description; not oneboxed

Bob

@slhck In very very limited situations.

i.e. running a website that requires PHP

somequixotic

16:30

NSISFW

(Not Sure If Safe For Work)

Bob

which you are likely never doing on OS X outside of development

@somequixotic somewhat safe

animated GIFs

but it's more diagrammatical

somequixotic

I'm okay with animated gifs as long as the content is... you know

slhck

@Bob Right? I mean, who wants to run a website on PHP?

Bob

oh, the content should be fine

slhck

:P

Bob

16:31

@slhck far too many people

slhck

OS X has a built in web server because you can publish your own websites with that… website tool, I forgot its name.

And that runs on PHP

Bob

o.O

I... wut.

Boris_yo

@somequixotic Is this coinage of new abbreviation?

slhck

IWeb

iWeb was a template-based WYSIWYG website creation tool developed by Apple Inc. The first version of iWeb was announced at the Macworld Conference & Expo on January 10, 2006 as part of the iLife '06 suite of digital lifestyle applications. iWeb allows users to create websites and blogs and customize them with their own text, photos and movies. Users could then publish their websites to MobileMe or another hosting service. In addition to its ability to publish to MobileMe, iWeb integrates with other services, including Facebook, YouTube, Google AdSense and Google Maps. Apple ceased devel...

I guess it uses PHP, not sure.

Never used it.

Hennes

0

Q: What's a legacy phone company?

What is a legacy phone company?? I came across this term in the following sentence. Thank you. Last year, Google bought its own legacy phone company, Motorola, which recently released the Moto X phone and intends to produce Android tablets

case

Migrate to english.se ?

Bob

16:35

@slhck doesn't seem to be anything self-hosted

thank god

somequixotic

@slhck Did Microsoft underhandedly shop the guy who wrote Microsoft Bob to get employed at Apple? Like, did they assign him to work on Microsoft Office for Mac, then when he met Steve Jobs, made him dress up in a super dapper suit and talk in buzzwordese? Steve: "I'd like to hire you." Guy: "Cool!" Ballmer: "GREAT!!! GOODBYE!!!"

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Boris_yo

Except for online multiplayer videogames, what are additional reasons for having low ping?

Bob

@Boris_yo faster response times

faster data transfer

somequixotic

latency is everything, really

after a certain point, everything is upper bounded by latency

Bob

it's also rather important when typing over SSH - noticeable lag in your text appearing is very annoying

somequixotic

16:39

@Boris_yo if that isn't already a question on SU, it should become one... I'm sure it'd get 1000 upvotes... then again, it might get closed for being Too Broad because of our ~~neo-fascist~~ slightly overzealous close voters and moderators :D

you should ask the question, though -- my answer will feed me enough rep to give me a satisfying amount of trickle for a month

unless there are too many answers and it auto-CWs

Bob

lol

Boris_yo

@Bob You are saying if I was to download 50MB file with 10ms vs. same size but with 1ms, the latter would finish faster? How many times faster?

Bob

@Boris_yo probably wouldn't notice with such a tiny latency

I'm talking 200ms, 500ms, even up to 1000ms

with TCP transfers, they wait for acknowledgement of a batch of packets being received before sending the next batch

with higher latency, they wait longer

(not sure if it sends in batches or individually - I hope it's the former!)

somequixotic

it really depends on how chatty the protocol is, and how big the buffers are on both sides

Bob

Ah, there's the word. Chattiness.

Also, @somequixotic hates buffer bloat :P

Boris_yo

16:44

@Bob That's latency between download request and download start? You have that latency once per each download you make?

somequixotic

a standard HTTP download is very low chattiness, and TCP itself isn't very chatty if you increase the fragment size

Bob

@somequixotic it's still enough to have an effect with (very) large latencies

somequixotic

with very low or zero packet loss and a straight one-way download of a file over TCP or UDP, chattiness is not really a factor unless you have an enormous line speed and significant latency

Bob

though at that point inter-country bandwidth comes into play for me

somequixotic

the chattier the protocol, the sooner you start to feel the effects

Bob

16:45

basically, (I suspect) there's a cap on my bandwidth from Aus to US

a cap below my normal intracountry speeds

somequixotic

@Bob the "cap" would only exist if you have a huge theoretical end-to-end speed on the line and the TCP layer is using small fragments, both of which would be unusual

more likely the cap is due to traffic shaping than latency for regular downloads

for interactive media, definitely the chattiness latency is the limiting factor

Bob

@somequixotic that's what I'm talking about

I left the latency topic four messages ago :P

somequixotic

oh. I didn't. >_>

this is why Samba over the public Internet is nigh impossible, though: it's an enormously chatty protocol

Boris_yo

@somequixotic One-way download doesn't send data in batches?

Bob

@somequixotic they improved that a little with later versions, though

somequixotic

16:47

works great on a LAN, but your ping essentially caps your transfer rate beyond, oh, 20 ms

Hennes

@Bob Batches, numbered with a sliding window

Bob

s/samba/SMB\/CIFS/gi

somequixotic

@Boris_yo it does, but the infrequency of the synchronous communication (round trips between client and server) is low enough usually if you configure the network stack properly, that latency doesn't become a limiting factor

Hennes

E.g. send up to ten packets with number 1 to 10. Keep all those in local buffers in case they get slost. Then wait for an ACK to state "Packet X arrived savely" or even a "ACK up to packet Y are here". Only then free buffers and send the next pakets

Boris_yo

@Bob Same here Israel to while world. If my ISP offers 100Mbps in land, I would get 10-15% worldwide.

somequixotic

16:50

think of it this way: have you ever talked on the phone with someone and had significant high latency? compare the amount of conversation you can have in any given time over that link with the amount of conversation you can have in-person... when doing this comparison, imagine that in Conversation 1, one person is giving a monologue.. say, reading MLK's entire speech

and in Conversation 2, one person says 3-6 words then ends with a question and the other person has to reply Yes/No

in Conversation 1, the amount of spoken language speech that can be transferred and intelligibly interpreted by the receiver is not really restricted by the latency, because it's a monologue, so the person on the other end doesn't care how late they're receiving the data, whether it's 3 nanoseconds or 3 hours

in Conversation 2, if you had to ask someone 50 Yes/No questions as part of a survey, the survey would take days if the latency were on the order of 45 minutes, but if the latency were the speed of sound (in-person), it'd take a couple of minutes

but there are plenty of moderately to intensely chatty protocols that are not gaming

most distributed file server protocols (like SMB, but also NFS, AFS, etc.) are rather chatty

Bob

Except with conversation 1 you would not notice if you lost something

which is the whole point of TCP - it guarantees that either the information arrives (in correct order) or the sender knows the information did not arrive

Boris_yo

@somequixotic I never experienced latency on home phone line our public pay phone. In Skype I did!

somequixotic

@Bob right, which is why TCP's reliability feature essentially forces the listener to say "I understood the checksum of <all that you just said>" every once in a while... but that every once in a while can be reduced if you're willing to suffer the consequences of bufferbloat

Bob

and this requires the recipient to tell the sender when they receive a packet, so the sender can resend any that don't make it

Hennes

Argh. Scool memories.

Including building a protocol which did these kind of things.

somequixotic

16:56

Maximum transmission unit

In computer networking, the maximum transmission unit (MTU) of a communications protocol of a layer is the size (in bytes) of the largest protocol data unit that the layer can pass onwards. MTU parameters usually appear in association with a communications interface (NIC, serial port, etc.). Standards (Ethernet, for example) can fix the size of an MTU; or systems (such as point-to-point serial links) may decide MTU at connect time. A larger MTU brings greater efficiency because each packet carries more user data while protocol overheads, such as headers or underlying per-packet delays, rem...

Boris_yo

Better not say "I received the packet" or else deal with DEA...

somequixotic

the general wisdom for low chattiness application protocols that still want to use TCP's reliability has been to increase TCP's MTU, which is just called the Maximum Segment Size (MSS) in TCP jargon because they like to be different (it's really just an MTU, though), and to increase the size of the buffers on both ends

Maximum segment size

The maximum segment size (MSS) is a parameter of the TCP protocol that specifies the largest amount of data, specified in octets, that a computer or communications device can receive in a single TCP segment, and therefore in a single IP datagram. It does not count the TCP header or the IP header. The IP datagram containing a TCP segment may be self-contained within a single packet, or it may be reconstructed from several fragmented pieces; either way, the MSS limit applies to the total amount of data contained in the final, reconstructed TCP segment. Therefore: Headers + MSS ≤ MTU. The max...

Griffin

@slhck First off get a more english like name. Second off who misclicked?

somequixotic

consider the difference between the following:
MLK: "I". You got that?
Listener: Yes.
MLK: "Have". You got that?
Listener: Yes.
MLK: "a". You got that?
Listener: Yes.
MLK: "dream". You got that?
Listener: Yes.

vs

MLK: "I have a dream". You got that?
Listener: Yes.

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