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4:19 AM
A lesson on the practical constraints of laptop upgradability.
Socket changes (LGA 1151 to LGA 1200), power and thermal constraints, &c.
 
I feel like this would be too vague a question to ask on the main site: a friend of mine wants to stream something he is doing live in a way that is easy for everyone to access, so probably stream live to YouTube. With a laptop how would you do this? He already bought a game capture card and an external camera. Is this stuff even necessary? I think his concern is the built in web cam was too low quality.
What exactly is a capture card and is it only used for streaming gaming?
 
Bob
4:36 AM
@northerner You install OBS or similar software, set up the stream destination, and off you go.
Though a laptop might not have the raw processing power to encode the video...
I don't know of anyone who bothers with a "capture card"
 
@Bob he was using OBS but it kept saying the device wasn't connected or not turned on, yet he kept assuring everything was
I will tell him to skip the capture card step
 
Bob
If you have multiple GPUs (e.g. CPU integrated + separate dedicated) it can make sense to set up OBS to use the integrated GPU for encoding to save some resources for the game.
@northerner Wait, is your friend streaming a game or just whatever is on camera?
If it's the latter and they have a modern phone they're probably better off just streaming from the phone.
Get a phone tripod and set it up that way.
 
He wants to stream a church service
 
Bob
Yea use a phone.
I mean, you could in theory use a camera hooked up to a laptop... but I suspect a phone's easier.
If you're using a camera + laptop, "capture cards" are completely useless.
 
The phone wasn't high enough resolution so he bought a camera
 
Bob
4:40 AM
...huh.
High-end modern phones do 4k60 video... older ones can at least do 1080p60
resolution is very unlikely to be your problem
I'd be surprised if you could even upload 4k60 video at a good bitrate without a rather high bandwidth internet connection
if you're talking about optical zoom that's a different issue to video resolution
but it's not something you'll solve with some random cheapo camera - e.g. most webcams aren't designed for zoom either
but if it's a church service honestly the audio is probably more important than video quality
just put the phone + tripod up front somewhere, but you might want to hook up a good external mic for audio
if you want a proper pro setup with multiple clip-on mics etc... idk
 
Probably sales man at the store convinced him to buy a bunch of stuff he didn't need by making the problem sound more complicated than it is
 
 
2 hours later…
7:06 AM
@northerner point him at the OBS discord, the folks in there are helpful
assuming he's done the setup guide etc
if he really wants to do 4k60, which seems overkill, looks like YT recommends 20000-51000Kbps
if you do the phone route, droidcam works [or used to work] over USB (even exposes a web interface for a browser source IIRC), but it can also be used over wifi if necessary
 
ok thanks
 
Bob
7:41 AM
@bertieb probably better off directly streaming from the phone
e.g. YT Live supports streaming via the app
no need to complicate things by streaming video to the laptop first
cc @northerner
 
Quite possibly
I haven't livestreamed straight from a phone so don't have experience with that
 
Bob
unless you specifically need some effects you can only get on the laptop/OBS... but if you just want to stream a church service you probably only need whatever the camera+mic can see/hear
 
I would expect PC makes it easier to do extra things, and keep an eye on audience
but yea, definitely an option
regardless, it's worth doing a dry run of whatever method is chosen
and have the other as a backup
 
Bob
I think YT allows audience management via the website while you stream from a different device
or you could just disable live comments entirely
 
for the first few it's handy for "we can't see / hear well"
 
Bob
7:49 AM
fair
 
8:45 AM
@Bob There's a 24 hour delay before you're allowed to stream if you haven't tried to do it before.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:27 AM
@bertieb I want this, but in linux
 
@djsmiley2kStaysInside Which bit?
 
Bob
@MichaelFrank oh yea, true. been long enough I forgot :P
 
droidcam
however, I've heard the client is terribad D:
 
Droidcam for Linux?
 
10:28 AM
Aren't there a plethora of webcam apps in Linux?
 
yeah, but my 'cam' is a android tablet
 
So install Droidcam on that, and read the stream from an android device?
Or another app that speaks rtsp
 
Linux desktop reading from the cam on android tablet, via USB
 
Yea
 
oh, droidcam puts out rtsp?
that's simple then, ffmpeg.
 
10:29 AM
I don't know what it puts out
 
yeah, not sure either :(
 
but I suspect ffmpeg'll read it
it spits out something over HTTP
 
I had it on an old phone or tablet
can't rememebr which because years ago
 
I really need some kinda remote control on this tablet, as it's so damn hard to use
due to being old and slow :(
 
10:31 AM
Airdroid?
I used to use that
Dunno if it's still on the go
 
/me tries to setup ipcam
I'll see if this is any good, I suspect it'll be terrible over the wifi
oh wow that's a lot better than I expected...
 
closes droidcam docs
Good good!
Funnily enough, I recently made myself a little timelapse camera with my old RPI 1
and a generic webcam I had lying around
 
11:19 AM
ooo Icould do that
@bertieb can't get ffmpeg to create a virtual webcam device, but alas, need to work now
 
...virtual webcam device??
what are you trying to achieve exactly?
 
grabbing the stream from the android device, feeding into youtube as if it's a webcam on this machine
@:D
 
are you trying to stream a tablet's camera to a teleconference meeting or somthing?!
ahh
 
Just playing with things.
basically, yes ;)
I'm sure I had a second webcam somewhere
 
oh right
doesn't YT go rtsp ingest?
 
11:22 AM
I think so, but no way the tablet will cope with it
and I'm thinking of mixing various webcam streams for things
youtube was just to prove it works :D
 
Yeah, but ffmpeg spits out rtsp
so grab stuff with ffmpeg, filter it (combine, etc), then output to YT
OBS is also be able to do this too, FWIW
 
yah
that's what I'm trying to do
right now ffmpeg failing, saying /dev/video0 doesn't exist...
which... maybe it doesn't, but it should be created
[video4linux2,v4l2 @ 0x55c3d0a6a990] Unable to open V4L2 device '/dev/video0'
Could not write header for output file #0 (incorrect codec parameters ?): No such file or directory
Error initializing output stream 0:0 --
++
tim@MushaV3 ~ $ ffmpeg -re -i 192.168.0.109:8080/video -map 0:v -f v4l2 /dev/video0
 
11:59 AM
does it exist? ;-P
ah
 
12:28 PM
wait wait
why are you trying to create /dev/video0 ?
why not just output to YT's ingress URL?
I don't think -re is necessary either
eg ffmpeg -i http://192.168.0.19:8080/video -vcodec libx264 -pix_fmt yuv420p -b:v 2500k -preset faster rtmp://a.rtmp.youtube.com/live2/YTKEYID
heckit, I'm going to do this myself
will pop the results in matrix
 
12:57 PM
got it to work in OBS in Linux, ffmpeg seems to work but YT never seems to receive data
 
1:15 PM
ah, YT requires audio so I fed it null audio and it now works
 
 
2 hours later…
2:47 PM
Also @northerner (and maybe cc @bob) apparently streaming to YT straight from the YT app requires "At least 1,000 subscribers. Once you get 1,000 subscribers, you may have to wait to get access to mobile live streaming." :-\
 
Bob
Huh. That's new.
 
Yea
I find it quite surprising
I guess it stops a bunch of low-effort, low-impact folks just livestreaming 24/7
or on a whim
but 1000 is a significant barrier
looks at his 50 subs
cough ...at least 2 of which are regulars in here...
think that might be the monetisation threshold too
 
Bob
@bertieb I mean they're not stopping people from doing that via third-party apps...
 
@Bob Oh absolutely true
but that requires folks to go looking
 
Bob
I suppose
very weird
 
2:51 PM
as opposed to having the YT app open and tapping "go live" :D
number of negative reviews for those apps around technical issues, tho all apps'll have those to some extent
I had a look as I wondered how they implemented it
 
Bob
@bertieb overall seems to be decently rated though
 
I'm kinda sorta familiar with the YT API, though not the live version
wondered if the apps were requing folks to use their own API quota
 
Bob
I find with a lot of those apps the "it doesn't work" ratings tend to come from those with ... ah ... dodgier firmware or just nfi what they're doing
 
the YT app for Kodi requires the users API keys
 
Bob
that said I'm not interested enough to test out those apps myself :P
 
2:54 PM
yeah
and yup
might try streamlabs for fun
they make an "OBS for Dummies" application
which is endless source of fun for tech support on the OBS discord/fora
 
Bob
huh
 
I was also interested in how popular the apps are
 
Bob
so that's where I'd heard of streamlabs before
back when I was looking at obs :P
 
Ahh yeah
I think it actually does some quite helpful and useful things, particularly for monetised streamers
along the lines of subscription/donation alerts
which I should really look at at some point
as one of the, erm, streaming elite cough
...nope, couldn't say that with a straight face
if I could be bothered I'd have a look at YT's TOS (again)
but they probably don't care about the handful of sub-1k subs using these apps to livestream from mobile
 
Bob
my playlist manipulation webapp is still languishing in my todo list
something something yt api quota something
 
2:59 PM
Ooh
lol yea
tell me about it
did you ever try asking for more?
 
Bob
never got around to it
I just looked at the ridiculously low quota
and put it aside for a bit
it's been half a year now
 
hehe, it's a fun exercise in "this really isn't designed for individuals"
 
Bob
turns out writing to a playlist is very expensive on quota
so, youtube playlist shuffle is broken on mobile
it never shuffles past the first 50-ish songs
great when you've got 1k songs in a playlist
 
erf
 
Bob
I wanted something that could at least work around that by taking a playlist, pulling 50-100 random songs, and shoving them in a new playlist
 
3:01 PM
fun
 
Bob
then I found out that writing 50 songs to a playlist would eat an entire month's quota
fun
 
YT's playlist manipulation is terribad anyway
Oh, you could shuffle in-place?
It's doable for small amounts of playlist; I wrote a wee dealie to reorder the videos in one of my playlists
because the web interface was like pulling nails with your teeth
 
Bob
that's also a no-go
it's the same cost for any playlist write
 
Hmm
 
Bob
swapping 50 songs would actually cost 2x as much as just writing them to a new list
 
3:03 PM
I wonder how many I reordered
lemme see if I documented
aha
 
Bob
I might be exaggerating a bit
 
> The one caveat I would mention is that you only get 10 000 API credits per day by default. Updating the video costs 50 units per update, plus the cost of the resource (for snippet this is 2), which works out to 192 videos per day, max.
 
Bob
it might've been 100 or 200 that ate a month
oh, it was per day?
 
Bob
says a lot about my memory :D
funny thing, that
 
3:04 PM
What's an order of magnitude between friends :D
as they say
 
Bob
ha
you came to the same conclusion I did
about 3 months after I put my project on hold
 
It helped that I've also written for the YT API before
if I hadn't I'd've probably done the same as you
 
Bob
maybe I should just redo it as a simple script
I'd originally wanted to make an actual website other people could use
which meant the API limits really stung
 
Oh ya
 
Bob
at least with a personal script I could just do 150 a day or something
 
3:06 PM
that's why the Kodi addon went that way I think
sure
in theory you could do a web app which gets people to auth with YT to use their quota
something something OAuth2
 
Bob
that was what I was doing
got bogged down somewhere in react-grommet land
 
Ah!
Oh
that's... beyond my ken :D
 
Bob
lol
got a bit too much for me too
 
Amen
FWIW the script I wrote ended up coming out at 72 lines, including comments
tho somewhat specifically tied to the reorder I was doing
but it's the thinking time involved really
Oh I also used the same approach to reschedule videos, it seems
...I noticed my own related post on that
I should chuck the code up on GH and update the posts really
 
Bob
yea, what I want to do is conceptually quite simple
1. grab the list
2. generate some 100 random numbers from 1 to listsize
3. grab those video ids
4. shove them into a new list
might get back to that at some point
but for now, gotta play with my orangepi :D
 
3:12 PM
Hehe
Just off the top of my head, I'd say grab all the ids and cache em offline to maximise quota (it's what I did elsewhere)
but you'll figure it all out when you get to it
enjoy the orangepi :D
I'm off for my state-mandated walk
 
Bob
@bertieb write costs so much more than read I'm not sure it matters
 
 
2 hours later…
4:51 PM
@Bob Aye good point, it's probably only a couple of videos either way; there's the request cost plus the resource cost (1+2 pulled out of my... off the top of my head), so it would add up over 100-200 videos
 

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