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12:38 AM
Just set up the mSATA enclosure. Trim is supported – fantastic!
12:50 AM
Oddly slow with random writes (possibly an issue with the underlying drive), but read speeds are in USB 3.1 Gen 2 territory.
ASMedia ASM1351 controller.
1:22 AM
Odd... looks like a secure erase fixed it.
I'm a cat, meow, check meowt
@ToxicFrog We don't get either of those, I had my UPS mainly to keep my modem from resetting every time the washing machine tripped the RCD
Our ISP had a network-side "training" system to "adapt" to line instability so every time the washing machine tripped the power, the resultant modem reset would register as line instability and cause our speed to get reduced.
We had a whole one real power cut in the space of 5 years, and my UPS did keep my modem and router running throughout (and my desktop PC in standby), was fun to get a line sync speed of about 40Mbps faster than usual because the crosstalk of everyone else's modem was gone.
@FMLCat excellent
We usually have at least one short power outage a year, although the worst lasted multiple days and happened when someone drove their car into the power box outside our house
Are Questions about Plesk/CPanel within scope.
Tag description is empty for Plesk. Seems borderline. Unlike Apache Plesk is a web application
1:44 AM
@Ramhound I'd consider it off-topic.
It's also off-topic for Server Fault: serverfault.com/help/on-topic
> [If your question] is not about...

- working with a service provider's management interface, such as cPanel
I'd invoke the ewok rule and let it be
@JourneymanGeek Yub yub?
1:59 AM
We have somewhat of a broader scope.
2:16 AM
Redid the benchmarks:
Heck, this thing came with a Phillips #00 screwdriver, the one thing I've been missing from my toolbox!
3:06 AM
The DACA debate is a big part of this shutdown - with both sides having hardline stances on this matter, I fear the government will not be open for business for months to come.
I don't recall the federal government having ever been so polarized.
3 hours later…
@bwDraco I have a 1500 VA 900W line-interactive PSW from CyberPower, almost the same thing
@allquixotic What's the efficiency of that CyberPower UPS?
@bwDraco idk
Because I'm wondering if I need a UPS and whether it's worth it.
you only need a UPS when you briefly lose power and would like not to
and if you're not one of those people who only uses a laptop
doesn't help with long-term outages (except to help you save your data) but is amazing for quick power outages up to about 10 minutes
6:09 AM
I did put an APC surge suppressor in the power path. From what I've read, brief power drops don't in and of themselves cause hardware damage but power anomalies can occur before and after the outage which can harm hardware.
mine has a 5-bar load meter; with an idle GTX 1080 in a web browser it only lights up 1 out of 5 beeps on the meter.... with a game running it goes up to 2
Does it get noisy?
0-1 load meter provides about 25-30 minutes of power; each additional beep drops that by 5-7 minutes
@bwDraco nope, mine's basically silent except for a very small fan, and it's right under my desk on the opposite side of my body from my PC
it makes a LOUD "click!" when going from exactly zero load (like when my PC and monitor are completely off) to turning them on, like it has a large transformer or physical switch, idk
but it's stable for long periods of time so
box makes very little heat unless the batteries are discharging, and that should be rare
@allquixotic Probably a relay switching on and off.
it also has several outlets that act like a nicely surge suppressed power strip but without draining the battery if the power goes off... I use that for things that need good quality surge suppression, but can go off if I lose power
6:13 AM
How often do you lose power?
the only things I have protected by the batteries are my desktop and monitor
if my USB hub becomes unpowered there's enough energy on my motherboard's USB controller to keep my keyboard and mouse working
Here, we have the occasional power drop every few months or so.
@bwDraco for long periods? haven't lost it for longer than a few minutes in years; we did lose power for about 10 seconds last weekend
Brief interruptions.
we get a baseline average of, like, just a flicker that's long enough to barely notice it with lightbulbs but would probably reset my PC if not UPS'ed, about once per month
and outages lasting seconds to minutes a couple times a year
6:15 AM
(we had a rare extended power failure earlier this week)
long outages, basically only if there's a disaster or horrible blizzard or someone knocks down a telephone pole in a bad car accident
Hmm. So you have less stable power than we do here.
But not greatly so.
the last time I can recall that we had a truly extended outage (so long we had to throw away all the food in our fridge) was about 10 years ago
and before that probably another 8-10 years
I don't think we were severely affected by the east coast blackout circa 1995
or if we were it wasn't too long of one
@allquixotic Several days?
@bwDraco yeah
like 2-3 days
6:17 AM
about 6-8 years ago (ish) we had an outage that basically lasted from early afternoon, through rush hour, all the way until nightfall, when someone had apparently hit a telephone pole at high speed on a nearby main road and damaged the power lines connected to it
that act also stopped the flow of traffic through a very critical traffic light for filing people into the communities after work, which caused such a traffic jam, that I was in my mom's car, and I jumped out of the car (after idling in place on a highway for about 20 minutes), walked across the street to a pizza place, purchased a pizza, waited for them to bake it, then took it back to the car
she'd moved about six car lengths
We had that happen when Hurricane Sandy hit us, but not so severely that the entire fridge had to be emptied.
(they had power at the pizza place but not closer to where I lived - we were across town)
but the traffic jam from that one critical light affected our whole area
(too long ago to remember the exacts)
The SMC1500C seems to be a step up from the old SMC1500 with remote monitoring capability and an improved inverter with higher efficiency and therefore longer runtime.
I wonder if it's worth spending this much money, though...
(we've never had hardware damage or major data loss occur due to power failures; surge suppressors provide protection against spikes which tend to occur before and after interruptions)
@bwDraco I spent about half as much on a unit that has the same VA and wattage capabilities and also has monitoring via USB
I just did a self-test, hadn't done one in two years so it was ripe for a test
drained the battery 15% instantly -- not sure why that is -- maybe the original fuel gauge reading was faulty? I heard the relay switch as it disconnected from the mains, but my stuff continued working, then it reconnected and I heard the relay again
or maybe it'd only give me about a minute of coverage if I lost power? O.o because the test only lasted about 15 seconds
probably a good idea to discharge the batteries a little once in a while
6:34 AM
Was thinking about runtime. The CyberPower unit you have may not provide adequate runtime under gaming load to let me gracefully save and exit and shut down the system (the GTX 1080 Ti is a huge power hog under full load).
@bwDraco you'd have to recognize the outage then immediately quit your game -- I think even under full load you'd get 3 minutes, then once you idle the GPU that would go up to about 10 minutes at least
get an external addon battery pack (some UPSes have those) if you want longer runtime, but you're not gonna be continuing your game during an outage on a GTX 1080 Ti
Hmm... Because the "2 minutes at 100% load" got me worried.
100% load is 950W or so, which your system cannot possibly generate enough load to even approach
It's not 100% load, but I'd need to see the load charts. Full load is about 500W including monitor.
the way to game during a power outage is to have a GTX 1060 laptop with a decent onboard battery, plus something like this: anker.com/deals/powerhouse2
6:38 AM
Hmm... it's actually not that bad.
I'm not actually looking to game through a power outage, I just want to make sure I have enough time to finish what I'm doing and exit.
that battery plus the Powerhouse is a full day of gaming on a laptop 1060, probably, or several days of IGP web browsing on a thin and light like an LG Gram or an IGP variant of a Dell XPS
9 minutes at 500W load.
74 minutes at 100W.
I have the CP1500PFCLCD and my maximum load is probably 400W (including monitor and GTX 1080) which is 10 minutes of runtime... double that if not gaming
I do have ways to cut the power draw during gaming, including dropping the power target on the graphics card.
That can limit the load to about 300W under typical conditions.
How much does a new battery cost?
6:43 AM
Genuine battery set is $100: cyberpowersystems.com/product/ups/rb1280x2b
the best aftermarket lead acid batteries with F2 terminal connectors are 9 AH, have a 10 year warranty and cost $50
not sure if the case comes with 1 or 2 batteries inside as I haven't taken it apart
@allquixotic You'd need a pair of these.
ah! the OEMs are only 8 AH but the Duracell $50 ones are 9 AH
if I ever replaced mine I'd get the 9 AH
also the Duracell's warranty is twice as long - 36 months vs 18
and same price O_O
9/8 = 1.125 = about 12.5% higher capacity unless rounding error (on Cyberpower's side, Duracell's side, or both) is being really unfair, at which point it could be nearly the same energy content in both
Well, this is also far smaller than the APC unit I was looking at.
the Duracell 9 AH is 5.7 lbs per battery; the OEM battery set is 10.98 lbs, or 5.49 lbs each, so each Duracell battery is 0.2 lbs heavier
could make up a genuine improvement in runtime
6:48 AM
CyberPower gave a really good response here.
> No digitally created wave can be a true mathematically curved analog wave. But the number of digital steps used to create the wave can be great enough that the electronics used in even the highest efficiency computer power supplies are unable to distinguish them from an analog wave. The total harmonic distortion of the output on battery is under 2% which means the output of the UPS is closer to a mathematically ideal analog wave than the powercoming out most peoples walls.

These units were created specifically for the needs of computer users with Active PFC power supplies. We put PFC in
Heh. The SMC1500C has a rated THD of 5%.
> The total harmonic distortion of the output on battery is under 2% which means the output of the UPS is closer to a mathematically ideal analog wave than the powercoming out most peoples walls.
are they saying that power delivered to your house gets rectified digitally from DC with a stepped digital sine wave?
I want an oscilloscope now
I thought conventional power delivery is that the frequency of the spinning turbine at 60 or 50 Hz in the power plant generates an exact analog sine waveform that then gets synchronized exactly through the remaining power grid, with no DC conversion steps, just voltage transformation until it gets to standard line voltage (110-120V)
@allquixotic We're just talking about noise in the mains current.
and since all coal, nuclear and natural gas power comes from a spinning turbine shaft eventually...
interestingly the power source of PV solar is DC (unless it's thermal solar, which would be a steam turbine)
Noise can be injected from a variety of sources between the power station and the outlet.
@bwDraco yeah I guess so
transients and such
6:54 AM
I'm not surprised that a well-designed inverter would output power with less THD than mains power.
why does the CP1500PFCLCD weigh half as much and cost over $100 less than the APC unit? less runtime?
Smaller battery(ies), smaller inverter.
that's way worse O_O
@allquixotic That's exactly what I said!
8 mins ago, by bwDraco
Heh. The SMC1500C has a rated THD of 5%.
> Output Voltage Distortion
Less than 5%
or at least the Ah because I probably know the voltage is 12V
7:00 AM
2x12V, 12Ah.
okay, so basically, the APC has a higher capacity battery, but its inverter sucks
it's a pack of two batteries, each 12 Ah@12V, so that's 24 Ah@12V; the Cyberpower's OEM batteries deliver 16 Ah@12V, with aftermarkets up to 18 Ah
@allquixotic The new SMC1500C model is improved: apc.com/products/runtimegraph/…
I just linked that :D
7:03 AM
I'm pointing to the SMC1500C, the new model with SmartConnect remote monitoring.
They apparently redesigned the inverter for much higher efficiency.
the discharge graph is the same for the SMC1500C and the original SMC1500... probably because the batteries are the same, it just has an improved inverter
ok, so for the C (here), now their THD rating is "Less than 5%", whereas with the non-C, it's "5%"
less than 5% could be 4.99% though
I don't see any THD stats here so I guess the engineer who responded on Amazon either did his own measurements and they didn't want to publish them officially or they just forgot, or he was bluffing
maybe his statement of 2% was to scare APC and other competitors, idk
18 minutes of runtime at 500W is very impressive FWIW.
@bwDraco yeah, that's quite a bit more than the smaller batteries in my Cyberpower
but it is a much costlier unit, and weighs a lot more
And requires far more physical area.
@allquixotic we had an outage for almost the same period of time ... because someone drove a minibus up a telephone pole three houses down the road
7:08 AM
the difference between the manufacturers' asking prices (MSRPs) on their sites, full price no sales, is $150
APC on the more expensive side
I'm using a cheaper CyberPower one
it does USB monitoring too
$150 for 24 Ah instead of 18 Ah, and probably a comparable inverter (if the Cyberpower's isn't better then I doubt APC's is better, it's unlikely)
lasts maybe 10 mins while idle (~150W) - I tested
7:09 AM
These are the two units being compared.
that's 10 mins at 150W after about 6 years
and it cost maybe $100
Value GP 1000VA, I think
@Bob yours isn't "PFC", is it? that's the one I ordered at first, and it didn't work at all with my Corsair PFC PSU
Here it's 100-110W at idle with both monitors on. Turn off the secondary Acer monitor, and it's inside 100W at idle.
7:10 AM
@allquixotic no - but it works fine with my AX860i
which should be a PFC PSU
huh... the AVR one didn't work with my AX1200 (no i)
idk how or why but it works, soooo
misremembered PSU model number
wow, that buddy is getting long in the tooth now... time flies
> You purchased this item on April 30, 2012.
7:12 AM
36s of that was a recent event from installing a solar (export) capable meter
@allquixotic AX is supposed to be Corsair's flagship PSU line. That a top-of-the-line supply is 80 PLUS Gold shows how old it is.
the 10 mins was from november from installing the solar panels
Well, I guess I'm going with the CyberPower unit.
honestly, I could "downgrade" to the 860i and get a better efficiency curve, a couple years of incremental power electronics improvements, and still be waaaaaaay under the maximum power budget of the PSU because I have determined I shall never SLI/Crossfire again (SLI/CF is basically dead anyway)
it'd be a net upgrade for efficiency (even though a downgrade in maximum output) because adding the "i" is their more intelligent, newer gen PSU than the non-i one
Not sure if I'm getting it anytime soon; the power here has been more stable than what we had at the old house.
7:14 AM
@bwDraco AX is old anyway. AXi is the new one
AXi is platinum, iirc
which makes basically no difference in real terms
Titanium for the latest units.
80 PLUS Gold is easy to find these days.
> Ten year warranty: Your guarantee of reliable operation that will last across several system builds
from the Corsair marketing... that means I'm probably keeping my AX1200 until ~2020 or so unless a new incompatible power plug comes out or something
damn things will last a long time in good conditions
@allquixotic A good PSU is an investment into the life of your system.
I'm running a Seasonic Prime Titanium 850W FWIW.
@allquixotic iirc the easiest part to die is the fan
are we really close to the limits of physics (using materials that don't cost millions of dollars per gram, of course :P) in terms of how good of a job we can do with efficiency of power electronics, now?
7:17 AM
@Bob Mine runs with the fan off 98% of the time.
I think there were some nice improvements in the early 2000s but things have been mostly stable since 2010 or 2011 or so, I think
Only after a sustained gaming load does the fan switch on.
or maybe we already knew about how to do the advanced stuff our state-of-the-art PSUs do now, back in 2000, but we didn't have manufacturing or raw materials to mass produce 'em
1200W is overkill for any system using a single graphics card. I went with 850W because that provides plenty of headroom without making things too expensive. (PSUs start to get expensive once you hit 1000W.)
if we're gonna see an improved generation of power electronics, I'd wager the R&D for that is being done at companies like Tesla, Hyundai and GM :P
(plz pass what you learn on to Corsair and Seasonic <3)
7:20 AM
Typical gaming load (Assassin's Creed Origins, all settings max at 1440p) for the system proper is 400-420W.
Monitors are 15-20W each.
(measured using a Kill A Watt meter)
Actually... 22.5W on the main Dell, 13.5W on the Acer.
At least I can run the measurements live without shutting down the system.
As for power quality and THD... amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3RGWTY0YNR57C
> The waveform was smooth and actually had less distortion than what is coming out of my wall outlet!
35 mins ago, by bwDraco
> No digitally created wave can be a true mathematically curved analog wave. But the number of digital steps used to create the wave can be great enough that the electronics used in even the highest efficiency computer power supplies are unable to distinguish them from an analog wave. The total harmonic distortion of the output on battery is under 2% which means the output of the UPS is closer to a mathematically ideal analog wave than the powercoming out most peoples walls.

These units were created specifically for the needs of computer users with Active PFC power supplies. We put PFC in
wow... demanding qualifications
@allquixotic Partly manufacturing techniques... seasonic.com/prime-ultra-titanium
> Seasonic’s engineers have implemented a new design feature, where instead of cables; the back panel and the PCB (Printed Circuit Board) are connected by a copper plate. This breakthrough solution not only lowers the chance of production errors during manual insertion but it also improves output power quality.
It also means higher efficiency.
(referring to the connection between the modular connector board and the main board)
It's very, very rare for a high-end PSU to fail these days.
AIUI Corsair's AXi supplies are in-house designs manufactured by Flextronics.
With Seasonic and FSP, all supplies are designed and manufactured in-house.
(actually, Andyson, too, but that's a much more obscure brand)
This also applies to Super Flower, but they don't market supplies under their own brand in North America. (Their Leadex supplies, which EVGA rebrands, are known for having superb power quality at every price point, giving everyone else a run for their money until Seasonic came out with the Prime series.)
7:58 AM
@bwDraco I've never heard mine spin up its fan
I think with the 1080 I'm always under the threshold
What supply?
49 mins ago, by Bob
@allquixotic no - but it works fine with my AX860i
Seasonic claims that the fan won't spin up until you hit 45% or so load. On my machine, I need 300-400W of sustained load (depending on ambient temperature, higher on cooler days) to trigger the fan.
@bwDraco think mine's 30%
connected the seasonic stuff but I like Link
The AXi supplies are digitally regulated, unlike the vast majority of PSUs out there. As in, DSP control.
The Seasonic Prime is analog; they just used the very best parts out there to get maximum efficiency and output stability.
8:03 AM
ya. practically, not much difference, but it sure looked nice in the marketing material :P
it's digital *jazz hands*
I suppose that if you took the same approach with part selection and used digital regulation, you could get even higher efficiency, but the result would be priced out of reach of most.
Digital control makes it easier to achieve higher efficiency and tighter regulation but it's expensive.
the inverter in a PFC UPS is "digital" in the sense that it has a very high frequency transistor that switches thousands of times per second to generate the A/C-like sine wave (A/C enough that most stuff can't tell the difference)
FSP's using DSP control in their Twins redundant power supply, but that's mainly to get a pair of 500W or 700W modules to fit inside the constraints of the ATX form factor.
well there's where my 234W power draw is coming from: Logitech Overlay is hogging a CPU core on my 8700K
8:12 AM
it's also eating up 1.1 GiB of memory
some kind of defective process
189-207 watts, down from 234-255 watts when Logi was eating a CPU core >_<
I suspect the storage subsystem is responsible for much of this power?
Here, it's about 60-70W for the system at idle and another 35-40W for the monitors.
Since you have a server-style storage configuration...
8:49 AM
Speaking of PSUs...
This thing has a +12V rail that is regulated to thousandths of a volt.
12.017V minimum (110% load), 12.026V maximum (10% load).
All the more spectacular when you consider that we're talking about 1600W of output!
Outputting upwards of 140A at +12V with <0.1% precision throughout the entire load range... is absolutely astounding.
Well, 138.7A.
1 hour later…
10:09 AM
superuser.com/questions/1286716/… kinda feels a bit like a guessing game question...
@JourneymanGeek Closed as dupe :)
Should that be ?
@JourneymanGeek ??
I mean, literally, that feels like something that should have that tag ;p
@JourneymanGeek Ah. I've never really paid any attention to that tag. I have a whole bunch of saved links that I should probably tag with that.
10:22 AM
I typically go with a meta post first, but that's cause I sometimes write the canonical question out of frustration ;p
Yeah, but I'm thinking of links that I close a lot of questions as dupes of. If I get bored (I'm off work for the next few days) I will post a meta with the links in ...
Having said that how does that tag actually help anybody? I can't imagine new users looking at that tag and reading all the questions ...
10:38 AM
Well, it points related questions to a canonical question
and turns something that's useful for one person into a more general answer
consider questions with an image of a cable end vs a canonical question on identifying cables
@JourneymanGeek But how is that better than closing as a dupe?
11:14 AM
@DavidPostill you know what to close it as a dupe of, and you can use a somewhat broad question? ;p
11:32 AM
Moar snow D:
And also morning o/
12:19 PM
@bertieb We had a pathetic attempt at snow in Liverpool, which didn't amount to much. It's brass monkey weather though ...
Still coming down thick and fast here :o
Me jealous. I like snow and we don't get it here :(
You can have all of this as far as I'm concerned; I have to drive today and tomorrow :-P
That was earlier, It's heavier now :s
12:41 PM
yeah still coming down here too
it was huge big clumps earlier
now it's almost hail coming down
about 1cm on the ground
1:19 PM
Off to find my car under the snow
If I don't come back, avenge my death
1:30 PM
@bertieb So take a GPS tracker and a mobile phone with you. If you get lost you know what to do ... :)
actually, you can use a android phone as a GPS tracker ;p
My parents do that when travelling
My mom once called my dad to tell him "Dear, you're driving around in circles, NEXT LEFT"
@JourneymanGeek I know. I didn't want to make any assumptions about what kind of mobile @bertieb has ... ;)
2:21 PM
Funny thing happened today: I upgraded two of my pilot Windows 10 1703 to 1709. I left notes for two of the users telling them they might experience something slightly different and they shouldn't panic.
Those who received the note panicked; those who didn't receive any note did not panic from the Windows behavior.
The second group actually said it was nice of Windows to say "Hi" after a while.
2:36 PM
@FleetCommand Pilots? Do you work at an airport?
@ThatBrazilianGuy you don't upgrade everything at once ;p
you run a few, then you run more... so pilot here's the first batch
Oh. As in "test pilot".
In Portuguese a pilot is someone who drives airplanes. Or race cars.
since despite being a kelptomaniac language, english overloads some words
Or a pen
@JourneymanGeek You're correct. Both meanings exist in Portuguese, but only when added with the modifiers. Just a "piloto" (pilot) is a driver of airplanes or race cars.
And the pen thing is a joke.
The pen is japanese...
2:43 PM
I don't get it
So, could be anything right down to "the name sounded cool and western"
The pen is totally Brazilian.
"IND. BRAS." = Indústria brasileira = made in Brazil
maybe for tax reasons ;p
2:45 PM
> Ryosuke Namiki, o fundador da Pilot Corporation,
Ryosuke is totally a spanish brazillian name.
Well, we've got spanish Indians called Raul, so...
@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I'm agreeing with you.
Turns out pilot pens are japanese. I never knew.
Indian indians, or counterfeit ones?
Dunno. Hey @rahul2001 are you counterfeit?
Or indians who are counterfeit americans?
2:48 PM
Whaaaaaa why can't I ping Rahul? What happened?
Is he alright?
@rahuldottech ? ;p
just changed his nick I think
wonders if we need to avenge @bertieb yet
I'm going to go to bed soon
Oh god what's happening to my brain.
Anywah I can't ping @rah*
There's only Ramhound
works for me
!!seen allquixotic
@ThatBrazilianGuy That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
2:52 PM
We could implement a seen command. Or would that be borderline privacy violation?
@JourneymanGeek MOD PRIVILEGE!!!
I donno man. Maybe Dog Privilege?
Maybe Rahul is infrared or ultraviolet?
No death avenging needed! \o/
Admittedly, some parts of the drive were a bit dicey even though I only went about 2 miles
3:09 PM
@bertieb But I like avenging :(
@JourneymanGeek o.O
@Bob You may need to avenge my solar keyboard, which I am about to stab to death because I can't get the redacted battery out
> solar keyboard
> battery
well, there's your problem
@JourneymanGeek "red, green and blue. RGB, you may have heard of that before" *shows closeup of BGR screen* :P
so that horrible thing with rain on top of snow which isn't melting some how is happening again
so it's really slippy out there now :O
@Bob K750
3:47 PM
Battery is for when there aren't lights on
And for slowly removing the trace of sanity I have left...
3:59 PM
user image
need LaTex
The \horse you built is a \protohorse from which many similar \horses can quickly be made?
Or: You build a horse, and it's the best-looking horse in the stables
I did it! I got the battery tray out!
All it cost me was my sense of calm
It works! \o/ (typing with the keyboard in question)
Going to leave it under a lamp to charge
00:00 - 17:0019:00 - 00:00

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