Root Access

2:30 AM

(so I'm guessing roughly a week, since I doubt this will be shipped before the weekend)

._. I hate waiting for packages. This is clearly why dogs are excited to see the mailman.

Somewhere between siberia and Mt Tyre

Hey guys, currently in a rut here - So Linksys pushed an update onto certain routers that added some cloud based administration. Despite not having auto updates checked, it pushed the update anyway. Router has been pretty horrible for service since. Rolled back tonight to the previous version to find major issues and my radios refuse to function properly anymore.

TL;DR verison; Need a new home router, recommendations are appreciated. Must support 10 wireless devices at once without overheating as this one was.

o.O

Price range would help, I suppose.

2:45 AM

150 is the max I would go really, I think that should give us lots of options

@SimonSheehan: good/cheap - go with tplink thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-cheap-router . I've got an older asus N56U (I think) that is pretty solid

Had several poor routers over the years die and go out the window, so I'm ready for something good

I personally use a TL-WDR4300.

It works pretty well.

I ended up chucking dd-wrt on mine, but the default firmware is decent.

@JourneymanGeek We all use the internet at my home and across multiple devices, being cheap isnt essential for this one :)

@SimonSheehan At this itme, though, consider spending a bit more on AC support if a lot of your devices support it.

2:47 AM

@Bob AC?

@Bob: I ended up getting a free AC router from my ISP ;p

Sorry I've been out the loop on networks for a few years

802.11 AC - its the newer stuff. 5ghz support is mandatory

(I'd note tho, the backbone of my network's homeplug, which works awesome.

Wow eh.

Fancy.

I'm not sure that ALL my devices would support it, but certainly would expect my own computers too... I'm not sure my parents work computers take it

@SimonSheehan Mid-high end phones since, what, 2013? Definitely 2014, support it.

2:50 AM

@Bob Neat.

Laptops... depends a lot more on whether you chose the option.

But almost all AC WAPs are backwards-compatible anyway.

Yeah, thats the issue there. We have a few dated laptops running around. But yeah, was hoping it would be that way

newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833704234

You guys think this is good? Seems to have very good ratings on newegg, slight upgrade from yours i think @Bob?

@SimonSheehan: basically means anything you use will work. Older gear on 2.4, newer gear at shorter ranges on the 5ghz range (shorter range but more reliable) or 2.4ghz at longer ranges.

@JourneymanGeek Ahh i see i see

That one is A/C there, good

@SimonSheehan Significant upgrade. I got mine before AC was really a thing.

@SimonSheehan AC. 802.11ac. "A/C" means air conditioning here in Aus.

2:51 AM

@SimonSheehan: wirecutter is one of the places I check when buying stuff ;p

@Bob Looking at that one that seems to be an upgrade of yours...seems rather enclosed. No overheating issue?

haha oops

@SimonSheehan I'd have to check when I get home. I think it was just mildly warm sitting on a table. But the internals are significantly different.

@Bob @JourneymanGeek wirecutter seems like a good site! This is pointing me in a good direction. thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wi-fi-router

and in stock right down the road from me, $110... not bad

@SimonSheehan: It is!

@JourneymanGeek Good find my friend!

2:56 AM

@SimonSheehan I also only have, what, four active wireless devices? plus another up to six connected, but inactive or off most of the time

so your load is probably higher than mine

my TL-WDR4300 cost ~$100 when I bought it back in... can't remember now, 2012 or 2013

that was in AUD, but AUD was near parity with USD back then

...but things were still more expensive here :\

so, say, maybe $90 in the US back then

@Bob Yeah, we're looking at a few devices here

Since the old linksys died tonight, I'm using the dual modem/router combo my ISP provides, however i find it easily bogs down with a few devices on it

So i usually limit it to being just a modem

Those universally tend to suck

@SimonSheehan I can tell you mine is fine with ten devices connected, and also fine with a couple devices transferring files through wifi/GbE (~100MB/s)

never tested with ten devices transferring at max though

and I'd probably be limited by the LAN/WAN speed anyway

@JourneymanGeek yep, want it out of here ASAP lol and make it back to doing just one job

@Bob Yep, looks like it would be fairly quick... wouldnt mind that transferring between my desktop/laptop

@JourneymanGeek Depends... the cheapo ones provided by ISPs? Ya. But I have a Billion 7800NXL serving as the ADSL modem right now. It's actually very responsive, and I suspect it could perform quite well in a WAP role.

3:00 AM

@Bob: in general

Thanks for the late night help guys (or perhaps morning/afternoon for you). Much appreciated!

Going to grab one of these tomorrow

I'm surprised TP-LINK manages to consistently put out quality products at prices so much lower than their competitors.

More accurately, I'm surprised their competitors haven't adjusted their prices.

@Bob: They arn't that well known to the average person tho.

Then again, from what I've seen Netgear, D-Link and Asus seem to spend most of their time creating and promoting useless bloaty 'features' (see: cloud crap)

Hm. Maybe Asus shouldn't be grouped with the other two.

;p

3:09 AM

I can attest to the cloud crap after this fiasco lol

d-link has a ton of cloud crap ;p

I've been disappointed by d-link for a few years

@JourneymanGeek The average person doesn't know any of those brands.

My most recent one was free. Not too bad, but I use it alongside my asus ;p

@Bob: hm, Maybe

My brother knows asus, and he's a muggle tho

Michael Frank

3:49 AM

I wish my Draytek was VDSL compatible... I'd use that in a heartbeat.

4:05 AM

Gee now that sounds like it might make it to the other end of the house "Turning on the wifi will clear a room with angry exits. The wireless on here is so powerful as to give me headaches, dizziness, and plenty of physical discomfort. Store it in a wiring closet or disable the wireless and use a normal ap." amazon.com/…

rofl.

looks like something that is not for a regular home user, but the price is.

Microtics are kinda in between

One of the SF guys swears by them

what is a SFP (port connection thing) ?

Small form-factor pluggable transceiver

Basically a "universal" port you can convert between different fiber types or even copper

The small form-factor pluggable (SFP) is a compact, hot-pluggable transceiver used for both telecommunication and data communications applications. The form factor and electrical interface are specified by a multi-source agreement (MSA). It interfaces a network device motherboard (for a switch, router, media converter or similar device) to a fiber optic or copper networking cable. It is a popular industry format jointly developed and supported by many network component vendors. SFP transceivers are designed to support SONET, gigabit Ethernet, Fibre Channel, and other communications standards. Due...

4:12 AM

and it has a Screen, small lcd thing, but at least it looks like one could alter a configuration without another computer?

What's a typical overclock for the i7-4790K?

average 4.5-4.7 similar to 4770 , high 4.9, max some crasy 5+

Overclocking is never 'typical'? ;)

Aside from manufacturing variances, it would depend on stuff like cooling

But you knew this.

</smartass>

4770k though had them 2 processor things not on it (or disabled) 4790K has those 2 things still with similar OC ability

cores?

4:19 AM

Stock is 44/43/42/42 if I'm not mistaken.

Lol, no 2 processor features, one for Vsometing and one that starts with a t ? i dont use em.

XKCD

Astrobiology is held back by the fact that we're all too nervous to try to balance on the ladder while holding an expensive microscope.

@Psycogeek VT-D and TSX-NI.

TSX-NI had to be disabled in all Haswell, except type EX (high-end server), in a microcode update due to a bug.

@DragonLord overclocking with less cores , they dont spend so much time doing that, so OCers are more often Turboing all 4, although it works the same, you can push one higher, when only one is used. I did that too 4.7 on 1, but dont really care because slow is when your asking it to really work, which at least takes 1.2 cores

I'm thinking 47/46/45/44 is realistic with most units under a slight overvolt.

Would I be right?

4:24 AM

Yes you can do that for sure.

Perhaps 47/46/46/45?

4770 i have cool quiet and 110% stable with 47/46/45/45

but really when is it ever at 47 ?

I don't quite get why so many people insist on the same high clock rate regardless of the number of cores in use.

When only one core is doing something, there's no voltage sag from the other cores doing work, so higher clocks are possible.

Insisting on 46/46/46/46 when the chip can do 48/47/46/46, for example is a bit of a waste.

it isnt about downgrading for the one , it is about trying to have everything :-) so all 4 going as fast as they can

How much will a good thermal solution and higher voltages compensate for a weak sample?

4:29 AM

they are more likely to go for 48 for all 4, then tone it down some after thier glory conflicts with thier reality

I've overclocked GPUs, but not CPUs, so this is all new to me.

I'm just curious because I might be building a system around this sometime soon.

...perhaps I should wait for Broadwell-K, though?

This is for discussion so that I have a sense of what to expect.

@DragonLord: hmm. Not sure if they have an article precisely about it, but puget systems has a pretty good blog on stuff like that.

I am not sure there are as many bad samples and transisters that dont quite work at certian voltages, as there is differences in motherboards and people using them. ALTHOUGH a super OC geek can race through and find gold, different people dont get super high because of many factors beyond the chip.

and many claims of super high (glory), are not nessisarily thier 24/7 (reality).

Stock for the 4790K is 44/44/43/42 (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…)

The 5960X is 35/35/33/33/33/33/33/33 stock; most will hit 45 on at least one core with good cooling and the appropriate voltage.

Is 46/46/45/45/44/44/43/43 a realistic baseline for most units?

anandtech.com/show/8426/…

Assume a high-end liquid cooling thermal solution is being used and sufficient power is available.

4:46 AM

I could really abuse more cores about 25% of the total time, but never thought thier megacore numbers were good enough for keeping the non-multi-threaded happy enough, and i have 2 things i Wait for , single threaded that i am actually waiting Yawwwn, and full use which can go off in the background

Never really though abut the possibility to get a few cores (of a mega core) going super fast, then have it really slack off for the full use, because well i am still using the computer ?

That's what I see as a major oversight among overclocking enthusiasts.

If it's not possible to hit 4.7 GHz on all cores, then why not try it on one or two?

That's what Turbo Boost is for.

with multithreaded OS and a program using 1 core , it does not seem to stay at one core use. But then I didnt spend much time looking. it is the 1.2 core thing. if 2 are in use, then 2 are in use.

That's why the 5960X is specced for 35 for up to two cores.

and if you could get it fully stable at 46 for 2 , then that fixes that. which just leaves the 43 when you have a multithreaded that can go on for hours and days, and your at 43 instead of 45-46, and still working with the computer.

I prefer to have the max clocks only for one core.

Stability is my priority.

4:55 AM

That is interesting, that these 6 or 8 cores could pull decent overclocks.

Even if I managed to hit the silicon lottery on the 5960X and the chip could hit 48 on all cores, I'd still prefer something like 48/47/47/46/46/45/45/45.

that works for me :-) 240Mm radiator 50 fans, 64gig of memory, water spewing out the sides . . . well no i am happy here

Heck i dont maintance my kitchen often enough, what makes me think i would maintance my water system well enough.

heck some people dont get around to dusting out thier computer enough.

Push-pull dual-fan 120mm would work just as well. Look at the Cooler Master Nepton 120XL.

Wont use em, cant even see what is going on inside there.

And we seen what happens in a system that you can dismantle

I'd still prefer a sealed CLLC system.

Look, I've never built a PC from scratch before.

I'm just trying to get a sense of what to expect.

5:05 AM

Sorry to say but i tried some of them things, and they are crap, even the base looked like it was sanded with 120grit, and I do on air, 98% of what they do on water, except of course if it went to more cores.

Breakdowns of these pumps also show that (basically) none of them have brass parts, or even would meet the quality needed for long term in a outdoor pond :-) they fountain pumps

I've built 4-5 systems and its never typical ;p

I am just to freaking lazy and had enough down time, to add a water system. my computers live forever , like 10 years with little to no maintance.

then you still have to remove the heat, sure you moved it 18" , but you still have to have the fans to get it gone. Advantage for huge radiator Many Large slow moving fans. advantage for great air cooler, fans deep in case more .

5:29 AM

one more, the air coolers always balsting air all over the place, would cool the VMRs (not as ciritical with haswell but still have to do as much power) and the rams, rams now running higher speeds with the same basic design (unlike intels amazing advancements in cooler processors) Plus the capacitors, the longevity bane of motherboards. soo one must maintain a good flow around there still, when that air coolers turbulance is gone. Some of those stupid armors try to solution that.

And thier worthless small fans which never survives.

@Psycogeek DDR4 is more power-efficient.

If service life is a major concern, look at the ASUS Sabertooth boards.

yea see all the heatsinks , what cools them now?

I lost ram , for the first time in my life, and that really ticked me off, when it wasnt even overclocked, or high voltage. So my latest air design, has the air for the cpu cooler, being sucked up past the ram, then through the cpu air cooler. Prolima split crasy air cooler.

The other option would have been to run a fair sized fan (like a 120) over the ram. but the ram clip fan things, and thier smaller fans are just going to die like all the small fans do , squealing like a banchee

5:55 AM

I do not think enough thought was put into "everything that is on a motherboard", even when going from the top down blowing stock fans, to tower coolers. Nasty little horrid stock coolers :-) that truely did blast air around the board. At times OCers where touting 50*C full load temps, while ignoring that VRM curcuitry was at 100C+ Then some dude did a thermal picture and it became a concideration.

Same thing with GPUs, improved the Almight processor cooling , many different ways and 3rd party methods and all, ignoring the rams. My thermal probe tests showing them at 100*C too.

Capacitors have a MTBF that vastly differs between being 25*C to being 80*C. so for ages , and still some today, many methods flat out ignored just about as important things, while even overdoing the item with the temperature sencor in it .

@Bob: ETA for the kindle is thursday or earlier.

And the phones :-) still ignoring that they could use much better methods to keep the li-ion battery cooler.

6:23 AM

@JourneymanGeek You should be getting it at the same time as my order, then :P

@Bob: paid a few dollars extra for express but meh ;p

7:00 AM

@JourneymanGeek How much does forwarding cost you?

And what size/weight?

Just wondering how it compares to Shipito

25usd/35sgd 1.5kg

Probably volumetric weight :/

comgateway.com/2012/red3.calculator.do

You can get an estimate there

@JourneymanGeek Do you have the dimensions?

vpost MIGHT be marginally cheaper, but people have reported issues with shipping electronics

Hm. $32 to Au, or $19 to Sg

For comparison => calculator.shipito.com

er... not at the moment

7:05 AM

1.5kg to Aus... slowest option is $32 and it only gets worse from there -_-

though fastest is $40... all the other couriers are more expensive and slower

I'd try to get an estimate to Sg, but it needs a city and postcode

@Bob ~ 10usd more on shipto

...I thought Singapore is a city

Singapore ;p

and erm

138632

shrug grabbed the postcode off a Wikipedia example

247964 no idea where it is, but it worked :P

(Building where my office is ;p)

7:08 AM

I need to figure out how to forward some stuff from Amazon that won't ship here... urk

Used Shipito in the past, but it's hardly cheap

$30-$40 purchase, $40-$50 shipping = wtf

@Bob: Other than their security being shit (that's why I use paypal with them), CGW's ok

8:13 AM

...

I'm embarrassed to be on the same planet as this nutcase, let alone in the same country... and he's supposed to be the PM's adviser? We're oh so very screwed.

heh. He is a business advisor tho.

(and well, some folk think that climate change is a excuse to take away their cars ;p)

Of course, we can adapt to climate change. Fun part is when we run out of fuel and plastic feedstock.

@JourneymanGeek There's enough oil under the polar ice caps. We just need to climate change them away!

It's a win-win. Burning fossil fuels create the climate change and the climate change gives us access to more oil!

;p

9:51 AM

!!no

ChatBot John Cavil

I was using it for like 2 minutes :P

10:05 AM

meow.

woof.

sigh, still can't get audiofile to build, or anything requiring libstdc++.so.6 :(

they refuse to find it even tho ldconfig shows it

Q: Why does my script omit leading whitespace in console output?

10:25 AM

0

I have the following script: #!/bin/bash function consoleWriteLine() { echo $* >&2 } consoleWriteLine " indented by 4 spaces" When I run it, I get the following output: $ ./test.sh indented by 4 spaces Where did my 4 spaces go? And how do I get them back?

bash

Help!

The cause of this behaviour is the internal shell variable $IFS (Internal Field Separator), that defaults to whitespace, tab and newline.

YEY I KNEW SOMETHING.

Had to google to remind myself how to fix.

@djsmiley2k so tattooing to the inside of your eyeballs paid off?

;)

10:52 AM

boingboing.net/2015/05/08/photoset-of-two-cats-tells-sto.html

o_O

Q: How do you convert an SSH private key to a .ppk on the command line?

0

I have generated a key pair with ssh-keygen. I now want to use the same key pair with PuTTy-based applications. Because I'm working in a CLI environment, I want to convert the key to the .ppk format from within this environment. Apparently, you can use puttygen openssh_private_key -o output_fil...

windows putty cmd.exe openssh git-bash

More help please? ;D

I'm still at step 1 with this script and already ran into 2 issues I couldn't solve :P

hehe

I'm afraid I don't have a windows box here.

you generating this on windows or linux?

11:10 AM

prolly windows, tho there's a linux putty port iirc

@djsmiley2k Windows. But it would be cool if it was portable

the linux version of putty will do it

But the Linux puttygen is different from the Windows puttygen

it'll still generate the .ppk if asked correctly.

puttygen on Windows only accepts one argument on the command line, the file to load :P

11:13 AM

Nod

Can someone explain to me why putty needs its own file format for key storage to begin with?

I mean

because dumb dumb

It ships with a tool that can read the OpenSSH variant

Then converts it to its own format, to then use that

it doesn't even do anything perticularly clever

That makes no sense

11:14 AM

it just puts a comment around it saying what length and type the key is

which means you could script it..... (and i can't say how, but it IS possible)

====== BLAH BLAH X KEY TYPE SSH SOMETHING =====

< the original key here>

==== BLAH BLAH END INFO ======

Meh

And then they say that puttygen MUST be a GUI application, because you can't get proper entropy on Windows, but ssh-keygen works just fine :P

Bah!

:D

have you checked your key for randomness?

maybe it's just 444444444 repeatng :P

I seriously doubt that you can't get proper entropy on Windows

There's crypto API available and I've used it to generate keys in the past

No idea what they're doing

allquixotic

@OliverSalzburg Sure you can. Just call one of the many undocumented Windows APIs whose behavior is undefined, and generate entropy based on whether the system BSODs :P

@allquixotic I just used System.Security.Cryptography

Also, wtf, there's no seq in Git Bash O__o

11:31 AM

git has it's own bash?

@djsmiley2k Well, in Git for Windows, you get a version of Bash

It's MINGW32, and commonly referred to as "Git Bash"

Allowing you to have a sane shell on Windows :P