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02:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

2:18 AM
Analise superuser.com/questions/907365/… Real post , or contrived, based on the actual symptoms, vs how it is typed?
only clue I find is how the title arrived in one piece.
2:47 AM
Windows Server 2003 is approaching EOL.
Why are businesses so hesitant to deploy the latest version of Windows, whether client or server?
Can a sysadmin explain precisely what the risks of deploying Windows 8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2 are?
@Bob not fair ! :P
@Bob It being up or down doesn't make any difference yannow
There's uhm nothing there :D
Assume the cost of deployment is not an issue (e.g. Software Assurance allows for the free upgrade)
Change is hard. Essentially when you need to switch OSes, you need to test if every single piece of software you use works together,
And often there's a ton of custom shit
And guy who wrote it moved to another company, quit to become a trappist monk, or got nibbled to death by ducks.
3:04 AM
@ThatBrazilianGuy O_O whoa
@DragonLord not to worry there are thousands of people working for microsoft that will scare them into changing , when that doesnt work they can destroy it with updates (just by accident) or reveal all the vulnerabilities it has always had to the hackers. They will comply, resistance is futile.
3:28 AM
@DragonLord - lemme give you a small example. We switched from having python packages as eggs to standalone. Somehow we moved from an older non buggy version to a newer version ... with the same version number.
@HackToHell the rest of the server is important, though
And that nearly knocked out the whole company
they replaced the blade, then I had to go an edit the persisted MAC addresses so it could associate eth0 with the new NIC
which reminds me, I need to look into moving again when I have time... probably OVH since @allquixotic has no issues there
@DragonLord Money. Compatibility. Effort.
So basically me playing about with ghost helped you find out that your super critical vps was down!
There's still people out there relying on IE5 (or older!) because some decade-old webapp won't work with anything else and the company that wrote it disappeared that same decade ago.
@HackToHell eh, not really... it just happened to go down in that time. probably shouldn't have been sidetracked with that at 1am
still, I do need to set up some kind of monitoring too :S
3:33 AM
Newrelic ?
yes, I am bored.
Ahh, yes, the black knight of the sith.
4:17 AM
dang Richie Frame superuser.com/questions/907373/… gets most patient SU answerer award :-)
@Bob why do you need to move?
4:50 AM
5:22 AM
@allquixotic @xkcd THATS TOO PERFECT
Blah, I am reading too much manga, I read that right to left
You're supposed to read that left to right.
Damn you directions ;p
5:37 AM
@XKCD Ha ha, thats just the problem the batteries do not last for weeks :-)
5:51 AM
@HackToHell: yay, more people doing random product reviews ;p
OH. MY. $deity....
GOG has tie fighter collector's edition.
(though, ugh, I need a stick to play it right, and I wouldn't use it for anything else)
6:06 AM
> $deity
Someone cut a window into a SP3 to upgrade it 0_0
@JourneymanGeek So i guess taking it apart with a plasma cutter or bandsaw is out ?
hm. Probably ;p
what are they trying to protect? the longevity.
Naw, probably cheaper production costs.
And thinness
6:16 AM
now wondeing what it takes to change the battery 2-3 years after purchacing it.
You probably can't ;p
I normally intend PCs to be investments to be usable for 3-5 years.
The Surface Pro 3 is a no-go as a result.
The bandsaw worked on the china androids :-) lots of foam tape double sides tape, and hot glue used. Damn people never heard of screws.
6:18 AM
5-7 for a primary PC. If I want a 2-3 year box, I'd get a cheapie, like my stream
This is okay for something like a Dell Venue 8 Pro, but not for something as expensive as an SP3.
(annoying thing is other than the screen, its actually a nice box)
(SP3) were just lucky that many of these will be purchaced, so when it comes time to change things, there will be more than one psycho-geek out there shredding into em.
6:58 AM
superuser.com/questions/907435/… there are just some days when "What The F--- Else Would It Mean" is the right answer . But i do understand the frustration, and desire for a confirmation.
7:37 AM
@JourneymanGeek I didn't really know what else to put there :D
Just enabled the "Display highly detailed status messages" GPO on my laptop.
@allquixotic cause it hasn't been all that reliable?
This is enabled by default on Windows Server
Not that it's hugely useful in a client environment, but it provides added information that can be used to diagnose issues starting up, shutting down, or signing in or out.
Group Policy is a huge reason I selected the Pro edition of Windows 8.1.
Client Hyper-V is the other major reason.
The OS is one of the last things I will skimp on in any PC build.
If I'm not running windows pro, I'm running linux with KDE ;p
7:46 AM
In fact, I strongly prefer Hyper-V for its Windows integration.
No more VirtualBox for me :)
It's a proven enterprise-grade virtualization solution adapted for use in a client environment.
CentOS doesn't seem to like Hyper-V
I love the fact that I can just mount VHDX files and manipulate them directly without the need for special software
@DragonLord It is nice to know your doing something. Not you the computer :-) I love to see those messages both at entry and exit. especially if one of them is taking to long.
> Please wait for the User Profile Service
I first encountered these messages when I experimented with Hyper-V Server on my old laptop.
@DragonLord: I can do that on qcow2/kvm too ;p
7:53 AM
In any case, easily worth the +$55 at build time.
8:31 AM
more comedy superuser.com/questions/907474/… "will burst in to the RAM when the system is turned on and decrease the efficiency & life of the RAM by creating the black spots" well sort of, but NO!
9:11 AM
@Psycogeek Those are not good answers :P
I wonder what "black spots on RAM" are though
9:52 AM
clearly, the laptop has been contaminated by bullshit
113358405632 bytes (113 GB) copied, 4970.19 s, 22.8 MB/s
slow dd is slow :(
10:03 AM
@OliverSalzburg Well black spots are the fact that a full reset and a full reload of everything has not occured, and the ram will be returned sector by sector (so to speak) back to the exact state it was in right? So any ram laeking, big bloody messes from programs and huge gaping unused holes will still exist?
@Psycogeek That makes no sense to me
(this comes from re-interpreting the 27 psudo-english wording that gets used on tech sites, when everyone is trying thier best to speak english, but it just isnt the first language)
Well if we take everything out of your garage, but then put it all back in the exact same way it was , whats the point :-)
10:23 AM
@Psycogeek Exercise?
10:55 AM
wow i was looking up some of the "site stats" at various ranking locations, and everything is compeltly different. One shows that 4/5ths of the views are male, and 68% of new views are asian. one shows the value at 10mill, another 17mill, another 24mill. And the really weird for these things. One shows the "location" in new york, one shows it in sanFrancisco, and one shows it located in singapore (i knew JMGs PI was up to something)
They all show that it is completly safe place to browse (have to agree with that). That a page load is only some fast, or it is really fast, weird because they are all always really fast.
theres a good one current value (with 17mill pageviews a month) 168english pounds
that one says it has 12mill Daily pageviews , when they do wrong they do it big
11:20 AM
Bounce rate is an Internet marketing term used in web traffic analysis. It represents the percentage of visitors who enter the site and then leave ("bounce") rather than continuing on to view other pages within the same site.
Alexa bounce rate for SU 83%
11:36 AM
Wikipedia,org has a bounce rate of ~51% , undoubtedly due to all thier cross links. so even if you only went to find out one thing, on one page, that one page is loaded with links off that page.
@djsmiley2k choose a better block size
wut about errors D:
11:49 AM
the drive is dying
at least I think it is
use ddrescue (gddrescue package), not plain dd
yeah not sure why I didn't start doing that D:
wut o_O
12:13 PM
@HackToHell I tried to warn you before that there are only 2 people on the web, me and you, and the rest of them are either bots, or just one of us logging in as a different user.
12:31 PM
On the internet, everyone else could be a dog.
Amusingly ridiculous question, but with disturbingly poor answers: superuser.com/questions/907474/…
12:51 PM
@Bob Ugh, they got even more upvotes now :P
@OliverSalzburg Seriously, where are these votes coming from? o.O
That answer really explains nothing at all.
1:05 PM
youtube.com/watch?v=xPwbDNGS07c What is it they say about "A Women Scorned"
boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/brainiac/2013/03/… Hope to god your porn arrives , but dont bet on it
1 hour later…
2:39 PM
@Psycogeek I am not a bot, I am a cat.
That's exactly what a bot would say.
And cats never identify themselves.
3:44 PM
@OliverSalzburg 27 upvotes. dafuq. superuser.com/a/907534/165442
@ThatBrazilianGuy that one's alright-ish. this was top with 8 votes when I saw it
@Bob I think this is the most satisfatory answer currently superuser.com/a/907560/165442 (except for the last paragraph)
4:16 PM
@ThatBrazilianGuy It's really a comment, not an answer. I'm pretty sure it will be converted if it isn't improved
Oh look microsoft lauched a code editor !
Everyone let's launch a SE code editor build with node.js and other $wag tech \m/
1 hour later…
5:46 PM
@HackToHell I took the liberty of adding a link to your message ;D
@allquixotic are things calming down over there?
@allquixotic duoco.de
> C#-to-JavaScript compiler
1 hour later…
7:13 PM
A: Can hibernating the computer damage the RAM?

DragonLordHibernation will not damage your computer's RAM. When you place your computer into hibernation, any RAM in use is compressed and stored onto disk. When you turn your computer back on, the compressed RAM image is loaded and normal operation resumes. As with most devices requiring a non-trivial a...

DRAM is refreshed continuously during system operation, so there's no way hibernation will damage the RAM.
> But to say that writing data from HDD to RAM can burst your RAM is the same as if somebody says that driving Ferari with a horse speed can burst Ferari engine. It can't because RAM is much faster
@DragonLord Ben Voigt actually mentioned that in a since-deleted comment.
And it's a comment on the question, too...
Computers usually use DRAM so it seems unlikely as the DRAM is constantly refreshed. I means that whole RAM is read and written to about 15 times per second. So it would seem likely that any other read/write would have negligible effect on lifetime. Assume you would hibernate/resume only for 15 minutes each time - you would get 13500 writes of whole memory due to refreshes and 1 due to resume. — Maciej Piechotka 3 hours ago
But, yea, most of the answers are terrible.
Hah, I wonder where that person's friend got that idea
7:30 PM
It seems I'm the only one who actually has a factually accurate answer that actually addresses the question
And yet, those other answers are STILL getting voted up.
Well then vote the others down?
I'm going to do something weird. I'm editing an answer to fix it... and then downvote it? It just feels wrong.
That Ferrari one. I get the point, but he worded it horribly.
But it's still wrong.
So anyone here very familiar with SMB/Samba performance?
A friend of mine is having an issue with performance between a Samba server running Debian and clients running Windows (8.1 or 7, tried both) and OSX.
Apparently the Windows client is incredibly slow vs the Mac.
He wrote a benchmark program to test it and I ran it against my NFS (which runs Linux, I'm pretty sure) on my Windows laptop and got similarly abysmal performance readings.
Wondering if anyone knows why and how to alleviate that?
Since it's a Samba server, it is CIFS/SMB1. Initially I thought it could've been a difference between Windows falling back to 1.5 dialect and Mac maybe using 2 or something, but the server only supports CIFS so that can't be it.
@BenRichards That sounds familiar... from a nightmare project
7:45 PM
@OliverSalzburg Oh?
I'll give you my numbers, and his...
We didn't have performance problems, just a myriad of other problems
His test measures how fast it can get a directory list of the remote folder. I got (over 2 runs) 15 files/second.
That's from a Windows 8.1 laptop.
These are his numbers:
Here is the updated list:
File inodes read per second:
Native: 11214
Mac: 1297
Win7: 73
Win8: 14
Relating to the different SMB implementations in different versions of OSX, the inability to store OSX filesystem metadata on the host and general access privilege corruptions (people writing files and then instantly losing access to them)
(Native being I guess he ran it on the server itself)
That performance disparity is way too huge to be simply due to random network conditions.
I agree
7:48 PM
> SMB1 also has a compounding mechanism — known as AndX — to compound multiple actions, but Microsoft clients rarely use AndX.
Are you sure this is related to Samba though? As in, did you check alternate routes (FTP) to the same resource?
@BenRichards No. Update it.
Samba 4.1 supports SMB3.
It does?
Samba 3.6 supports SMB2.
I'm going to have to ask him what version of samba he's using. I probably was looking old documentation online
7:49 PM
If you're running something older and forcing a fallback to SMB1, well, that's really your fault.
He's on Debian so it's probably the default package. It wasn't originally built with samba in mind, but rather NFS and rsync
Might also be good to check if there's some other discrepancy forcing the MS clients to fall back.
OS X is SMB2, apparently.
Yeah, I know OSX is
I'll let them know that newer versions of samba support SMB2 and 3
They didn't realize this
Win7 doesn't support SMB3, keep that in mind - but SMB2 is already a significant improvement.
7:51 PM
Samba 3.6 was late 2011.
I asked him to find out what dialect he was using from Windows though. Mine was communicating via SMB1.5
But he has a proper server, mine is just a NAS I bought from D-Link.
Does the SMB functional level dictate throughput?
If he's running Squeeze, well that's early 2011.
SMB1 is notoriously more chatty. 2 is markedly more efficient.
@OliverSalzburg SMB2 is far less chatty than SMB1. Less round-trips, supports pipelining, etc..
7:52 PM
Though I'm not sure if that's the whole story.
@Bob Ah, good to know
Because Windows should support SMB2, and we still have Mac being faster than Windows.
Keep in mind that original SMB (1) was designed circa 1990.
SMB2 was 2006.
In 1990, no one cared if networked file access was slow - you were lucky to have a network at all.
@BenRichards Just FYI, in the nightmare project, the client moved to Windows Server as a host in the end and all problems magically resolved themselves :P
@OliverSalzburg Well SMB is a Microsoft thing. I'd hope so :)
@Bob Apparently SMB1 protocol was reverse engineered as well?
It was proprietary
7:54 PM
I have literally never seen a Samba setup that was a convincing alternative to a Windows system, and I failed myself to produce one :(
@BenRichards There isn't a SMB1.5...
@BenRichards A dialect of SMB1, but still technically following that spec.
The post there says it isn't documented anywhere but MSFT did have multiple iterations of the SMB1 dialect.
> Dialect 1.5 is a valid SMB 1 dialect and many implementations (including older versions of Windows) use it.

You see, we released many Windows versions that supported SMB1 over the years, but I did not spend any time on the blog to detail the many 1.x dialects...
Anyone have any idea why OSX would be much faster when communicating with the server vs Windows?
The Mac was on Wifi and Windows was on Ethernet, to boot, btw
@DragonLord nods
Ah, gotcha, @Bob.
@BenRichards Sort out the SMB version first.
12 mins ago, by Bob
> SMB1 also has a compounding mechanism — known as AndX — to compound multiple actions, but Microsoft clients rarely use AndX.
Yeah. That could be it.
he's probably at work right now so I dunno when he'll get to check this
We started on this last night
Me last night on twitter with him:

> unless it is just windows picking crappy default settings which isn't unheard of :P
So it could be that? ;)
8:03 PM
@BenRichards More like Samba picking crappy default settings :P
MS probably tunes Windows clients with Windows servers in mind.
And that makes sense.
What would the Samba server have to do with how the Windows client chooses to communicate?
The Mac is much faster with the same server.
I have no idea how Samba is tuned by default or what options you have, but logically they probably should have gone for maximum compatibility with Windows where possible.
In that case, wouldn't the Mac have similarly abysmal performance numbers?
@BenRichards Because if the Windows client is optimised for different conditions to the Samba server, then you won't get max throughput.
Because it's the same server.
Oh that's what you mean. Yeah, I understand that.
8:05 PM
This is all speculation, of course.
That's actually what I suspected. That's why I was trying to get into the nitty gritty about how the Samba server is configured and how the Mac was differently than Windows.
Without access to the machines though, I can only go as fast as my friend can on twitter :P
He's probably an hour drive from me, or more.
@BenRichards: we have that problem at work ;p
@Bob @OliverSalzburg Hopefully he gets back to me by tonight and we get some more hard numbers.
@JourneymanGeek How so?
Mobile chat... This isn't horrible...
@studiohack You're right, though I haven't done it in a couple years :P
8:09 PM
@BenRichards: We use samba to pull an excel file from UK to singapore - samba server on linux, windows 7 client
Ah :(
You haven't used Root Access on mobile?
its REALLY slow to initiate and do a transfer
@studiohack Not for a couple years :P
@JourneymanGeek Ah :(
@BenRichards the autocomplete even works :P
8:10 PM
@studiohack Fancy!
@studiohack: on android there's a VERY nice unofficial client called chatsey
Does it give you... ROOT ACCESS? :P
its basically a wrapper with a slightly different/better theme.
Usually I don't like apps that are simply wrappers around the web page.
this is nice ;p
(and arguably superior to mobile chat as is. !)
8:13 PM
@JourneymanGeek Oh, did you see about how I got a new laptop and how it's awesome? :)
Replacing my Lenovo, because I got tired of the crappy screen and it being slow
no? ;p
What lappy?
stream 11 ;p
@JourneymanGeek I recently started messing around on SU on mobile, after it being so incomplete a few years ago. Totally different now and my phone is worlds better
It's an MSI GS70 2PC Stealth :)
8:15 PM
I wanted something super tiny, and light, and its so cheap I didn't really care if stuff broke.
Gaming laptop, but affordable, low key, light, and thin :)
17" but that's fine. It also has a full numpad :P
Its an oddly robust little thing with a wierdly good keyboard.
(annnd... its nice to use on the train. Even if I'm kinda looking at a kindle)
@JourneymanGeek, while you're here, I have flags on two answers to this question.
Q: Can hibernating the computer damage the RAM?

Adithya PathipakaI always hibernate my laptop. One of my friends said that hibernating the computer will cause damage to the RAM. From his point of view he said that the suspended RAM data stored on the hard disk will burst in to the RAM when the system is turned on and decrease the efficiency & lifetime of the R...

Its 4am
8:17 PM
Good question. 6am, I really should sleep :P
@JourneymanGeek Because you secretly wish you were HERE instead!
Also, I'm not going to moderate without coffee.
@BenRichards: fancy keyboard ;p
@JourneymanGeek It is nice, though I admit I was slightly tempted by the gaming laptop that had a full mechanical keyboard in it :P
the G80?
That's a slightly crazy bit of kit
8:20 PM
Weighs a ton...
GT80 Titan :P
@BenRichards: and zat touchpad
Almost as crazy as the blade pro's full lcd screen on the keyboard.
That's the specific storefront page I bought mine from.
Personally, tho
I actually like the form factor of what I bought better. The only thing I really don't like much about it is the touchpad. Default settings weren't great, and it also isn't very good at fine precision.
8:22 PM
I don't have much use or a gaming laptop at the moment
(especially where I need to use a work system at work, and while old, my box at work is a beast)
I'm using it right now in my lap. It's light and doesn't run hot when not gaming, which is what I want.
@BenRichards Hey, 860M! :P
Even when gaming, it just gets warm, and it vents out the side so I can still use it on my lap relatively comfortably, which I wanted.
Yep, Bob :)
Actually is the first Nvidia chip I've owned since 2008
I haven't actually tried gaming on mine yet... already regretting choosing the 3200x1800 screen though. It's a decent screen, but it's bloody PenTile... Pentile RGBW looks like shit.
8:23 PM
I've not owned anything but nvidia or intel
I was tempted by other configs that had 4k screens, but I didn't go for it
SLIGHTLY pondering an nvidia once I do the screen upgrade I plan on in june/july
1080p is fine
The white pixels are horribly obvious with any bright coloured text.
Black text is better now after some ClearType tuning.
@BenRichards I went kinda crazy with QHD+ in 3.3" :P
8:25 PM
...well. Fuck. There goes the warranty. (apparently the company I ordered from, who's very well regarded and has been operating for over 6 years, went into administration a week ago... that's just bloody terrible timing :\)
QHD+ in 3.3 inches sounds nuts
@JourneymanGeek that'll probably be LG or Samsung's next phone -_-
8:36 PM
naw, it would be at least 5"
@BenRichards btw, @CanadianLuke helped me with my Samba problem back then quite a bit. AFAIR he had a pretty similar environment. Maybe he might have some ideas as well
@BenRichards Sup? What kind of issues are you having?
He has been summoned!
8:44 PM
@CanadianLuke Friend is having them. He has a Debian server running Samba and two computers, one running OSX and the other running Windows, as clients. He's seeing vastly poorer performance from the Windows machine vs the Mac.
He who shall not be named... Other than Luke, every once in a while
@BenRichards Samba 3 or 4?
8:45 PM
@CanadianLuke We don't know yet, but it's the latest Debian, and it probably is the default package.
58 mins ago, by Ben Richards
These are his numbers:
Here is the updated list:
File inodes read per second:
Native: 11214
Mac: 1297
Win7: 73
Win8: 14
He made a tool to bench.
(Can't resist, I'm a Starbucks fan)
I ran it against my NAS, which does SMB1, from my Win 8.1 laptop and from two runs, got an average speed of 15 files/sec which matches his experience on his hardware.
So we wonder if it's something different between how the Mac and Windows are configured as SMB clients.
He is probably running Samba 3, pre SMB2 support, but no confirmation yet
OK, he's using Samba 3. Windows 7 and 8 require a turn-down on authentication, down to 40-bit, I believe, in the Network and Sharing Center -> Advanced Sharing Settings
Also, get a dump of the config file - testparm -s
Would that affect performance? Or just visibility?
Take a look in the [global] section, and paste it somewhere
8:47 PM
Because he can see it fine
config file on the server?
I recall issues with lookups, each time
Ok, I'll have to ask him to do so. I think he's at work right now.
Alright, no problem. I won't be available after 4:30pm PDT... Well, I will, but on my cell and with limited response time
@CanadianLuke Ok. We were debugging this after 10PM EST last night anyway. :)
I got my kid tonight, so computer time is limited once I'm off work
8:50 PM
it's actually me and another friend (who built him the server in the first place) who are helping him out. The intended configuration though was NFS/rsync, but he decided to give Samba a try I guess :)
It's for backups, IIRC
@BenRichards @CanadianLuke looks like the encryption strength would cause problems earlier in the process => unixgr.com/windows-7-sp1-and-samba
Well, for ease of use, Samba is the way to go... Once it's set up properly, if you're using Windows clients
Well, it's Mac and Windows as clients. :) I can actually try the authentication thing on my laptop here, since I was getting similar performance numbers as him with my NAS, which I believe runs off Linux as well, anyway.
OK, let me know. There's also a reg hack for connecting to Samba as a domain controller, but I don't believe that would be needed. Is the Mac connecting via smb:// or another protocol?
Does that setting only enable the lower bit encryption and not disable 128-bit encryption?
8:55 PM
I don't know, I can't read encrypted data ;)
Ah :P
we need to get @Thensa in here to tell us the details on the encrypted data then
Dang, we're going to have a full on task force on this problem, hah
@CanadianLuke The Mac is using SMB as well, afaik.
Unless you mean smb over http or some such tomfoolery?
Nope, regular SMB. Mounted on the desktop as a Volume, or mounted with the mount command, it shouldn't matter
Ah, yeah, he said that he's doing SMB from Mac and Windows.
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