Root Access

@JourneymanGeek Haven't sent it just yet - i came to get screenshots. The message had been deleted to protect his decision, which is also abuse of status

Journeyman Geek

Which message?

I've not deleted anything, and if there's no personal information, I'm cool with getting you a screenshot.

I've got nothing to hide.

R.Doto

@JourneymanGeek exactly! Someone used offensive language and i flagged it. @nhinkle used the word 'pissed' and i flagged it...

Journeyman Geek

1:10 AM

._.

Pissed is offensive language?

R.Doto

One of you have deleted the message!

Michael Frank

@R.Doto Well that's a bit childish...

Daniel

to some @JourneymanGeek

Kit Z. Fox

It's not deleted.

points up

Journeyman Geek

You do realise you can delete your own messages right?

(also rofl)

That's NOT what you flagged

R.Doto

1:11 AM

if 'dweeb' is offensive then 'pissed' is also.

Kit Z. Fox

It was Michael who said it anyway.

Michael Frank

>.>

R.Doto

It's not appearing on the chat log...

Kit Z. Fox

points @Michael

Journeyman Geek

Ok, Let me lay this out clearly and unequivocally

R.Doto

1:13 AM

luckily, i haven't sent the report, then.

Journeyman Geek

This is a chilled out friendly chatroom. If you're here explicitly looking for trouble and drama, please go elsewhere.

6

R.Doto

I flagged the post, that contained the offensive language

Journeyman Geek

No, carry on.

Especially if its on meta.

R.Doto

If i can't prove it... there is no point

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek yes please do not turn this place into reddit and youtube comments, or microsoft answers .

R.Doto

1:14 AM

@JourneymanGeek I was chilled -- then you kicked me twice

Kit Z. Fox

Would editing the word out of the message suffice?

barlop

hi

R.Doto

well, kicked me once and temporarily banned me the other time.

Daniel

*facepalm* Do I need to open a room for you guys to vent on each other in?

barlop

so there was a comment that used the word "pissed"

Daniel

1:15 AM

Just go ahead and formally declare war already!

Kit Z. Fox

@R.Doto Kicked you once.

barlop

and it got flagged..

R.Doto

@barlop yes

barlop

was it flagged for a joke?

R.Doto

@barlop no!

barlop

1:16 AM

Why do you find "pissed" offensive?

R.Doto

@barlop i flagged it because it was offensive langauge

barlop

I see your point...

technically it might be offensive language

Journeyman Geek

@R.Doto I kickmuted you once for two invalid flags

barlop

offensive to my late grandmother

Bob

@R.Doto calling someone a "dweeb" is offensive to an extent.

Kit Z. Fox

1:17 AM

Do you permit swearing in here generally?

Journeyman Geek

@KitZ.Fox in context.

barlop

rdoto- does your grandmother read the chat?

R.Doto

@barlop Nope. Only me.

Journeyman Geek

typically the way I handle it is letting the person know its unsuitable, then if he repeats it, taking the relevant action

barlop

Do you get offended by the word pissed?

Bob

1:18 AM

But I didn't even flag. I consider using the bot to lower the bar for offensiveness

Kit Z. Fox

So would there be an objection to editing the message? If the term makes someone who is here uncomfortable, then that would be the simplest solution.

Bob

I will botban easily, but not flag.

R.Doto

@Bob We've established that. It didn't know it was offensive outside of england

Journeyman Geek

@KitZ.Fox pissed has been said 275 times here

;p

I'd consider that as such, something the community finds acceptable in context

barlop

RDoto - do you find the word "pissed" offensive? if so - why?

Kit Z. Fox

1:19 AM

I understand that, but if someone legitimately takes offense, surely we could watch our tongues while he's around. For the sake of civility?

Journeyman Geek

@KitZ.Fox well, he also flagged bob saying he was botbanned.....

so I'm of the opinion he's flagging frivolously

Kit Z. Fox

I'm not speaking to that. And I don't think flagging was warranted, when you can ask for what you want.

What I mean is, there's no need to flag as offensive if you can say "hey, would you mind changing that?"

Journeyman Geek

Yup

Kit Z. Fox

Because my innocent eyes are darkening.

R.Doto

@barlop Irrelevant. Offensive language, includes 'pissed'.

Journeyman Geek

1:20 AM

but I'd rather not have in context language getting censored

Kit Z. Fox

And the next thing that could happen is that I end up writing in Lisp.

Or Haskell.

Journeyman Geek

@R.Doto I disagree.

Kit Z. Fox

And nobody wants that.

Nobody.

Journeyman Geek

If you want to pull up precedent, the only time I've suspended someone for offensive language, he used it, repeatedly, out of context, about his mother, and was asked to stop.

ChatBot John Cavil

HAMMERTIME!

barlop

1:21 AM

Rdoto- pissed may be offensive to your late grandmother, but in this generation it's not offensive language

R.Doto

@JourneymanGeek Do you want me to show you a source?

Journeyman Geek

Thank you Cavil.

Daniel

What's with the bot randomly shouting HAMMERTIME!?

barlop

It's offensive language at a tea party

Kit Z. Fox

Look. There's no sense in arguing about how he "should" feel about it.

Journeyman Geek

1:22 AM

@R.Doto I repeat myself. If you're explictly looking for trouble and drama, look elsewhere please.

Kit Z. Fox

It's well off the screen now, so let's chat about something else.

Daniel

^

Journeyman Geek

@Daniel Easter egg. Happens when you end a sentence with stop.

ChatBot John Cavil

HAMMERTIME!

Daniel

haha

what about stop?

nope only stop.

Journeyman Geek

1:23 AM

Also does it in other languages.

R.Doto

@JourneymanGeek you're from au, right?

Journeyman Geek

Nope

Kit Z. Fox

@Daniel Ouch. I don't think he likes you.

Journeyman Geek

Singapore, spent a few years in the last reminants of the british empire.

Daniel

wait, how come the bot didn't like my stop

ChatBot John Cavil

1:23 AM

HAMMERTIME!

there

hahaha

!!xkcd

Let me see if my instance likes stop...

R.Doto

1:24 AM

@JourneymanGeek wrong person then. However, as defined by the law, using indecent language is classed as offensive

@JourneymanGeek including 'pissed'

Daniel

yup, it HAMMERTIME!s me after stop.

ChatBot John Cavil

HAMMERTIME!

Journeyman Geek

@R.Doto I'm a mod. Technically what I say is law.

Daniel

^

Journeyman Geek

And I'd like to keep the chat flowing in a positive way.

Kit Z. Fox

1:26 AM

I thought we were done talking about that. Anyone want some pumpkin pie?

Daniel

I WANT PUMPKIN PIE

Journeyman Geek

I don't want to lose core users cause relatively new folk don't know the chat culture here and keep stirring things up.

tereško

for fuck sake ..

R.Doto

@JourneymanGeek Incorrect. it's an Egotistical way of thinking

Michael Frank

@KitZ.Fox I've never had pumpkin pie.

@tereško uh-ooh...

Daniel

1:27 AM

WHAT?!?!?!?!

R.Doto

@tereško @JourneymanGeek You're a mod, do something about that please

Daniel

^

Kit Z. Fox

@MichaelFrank Really? Wow.

Now I want to send you some.

Michael Frank

@KitZ.Fox It's not big here in NZ.

tereško

@R.Doto did you get offended because you saw "fuck" without a prior trigger warning?

Bob

1:28 AM

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't find words themselves offensive at all. I find insults and attacks directed at people offensive.

R.Doto

@tereško if i'm made to stick to the rules...

Kit Z. Fox

OK. Look. @R.Doto, there is swearing that will happen in this chatroom. If that's a problem for you, you should probably find another place to hang out, or write a handy filter for yourself.

Daniel

OK guys, let's move on. Seriously.

Kit Z. Fox

I've got to make some user accounts anyway.

Daniel

annnnnnd awkward silence

Kit Z. Fox

1:30 AM

Sorry I can't actually give you pie.

Bob

I don't care if you say "fuck". But call someone a "dweeb" and I'll get annoyed. Use the bot to do so and I'll botban you.

Daniel

You can probably go to Publix and get one

And I'm out for now.

@Daniel Publix?

later @Bob

1:31 AM

@KitZ.Fox I will stop when @JourneymanGeek admits he was wrong to kick me for doing a community favor

Daniel

publix.com

Bob

@Daniel better to clear things up than have random chatflags

Daniel

Best grocery store out there

yeah probably @Bob

Bob

How presumptuous. You're the only one here who thinks he was "wrong".

Daniel

Me?

Kit Z. Fox

1:32 AM

@R.Doto You aren't doing the community a favor.

Ok. That's it.

!!foxno

NO.

Damn it, @Daniel.

Daniel

jinx

Kit Z. Fox

1:32 AM

I'm not even wearing the fox today.

R.Doto

@Bob Why, they're both example offensive language? I wouldn't be bothered, if he told me prior.

Daniel

buy me a coke

and there go the anti-spam filters @SE again...

Kit Z. Fox

OK. Next time I see you.

Daniel

I'm talking too fast apparently

Journeyman Geek

@R.Doto I'm very sorry, but as someone who's been on chat for years and actually gets the culture of the room I have a better idea what's acceptable here and what's not.

Kit Z. Fox

1:34 AM

I've got to figure out which monitor I taped my most recent password onto.

Michael Frank

@KitZ.Fox D:

Journeyman Geek

@KitZ.Fox and which postit? ;p

Michael Frank

Wait.... how many monitors do you have?!

R.Doto

@JourneymanGeek Do you? That's bias ;)

Journeyman Geek

Security by obscurity! Many false passwords.

@R.Doto That's experience.

Bob

1:34 AM

@R.Doto Because context and intent matter. Otherwise they're just a string of characters.

barlop

you could make the rules more clear I suppose.. about what is offensive and what isn't

that swear words are ok

Journeyman Geek

@barlop Cause we're rather not have strict rules on that. Its about context, and intent.

If you must, the real rule here is "Be Nice"

bwDraco

Was thinking about this: The 1TB Surface Book costs an insane $3199. My gut, however, tells me the BOM is closer to $1500.

Kit Z. Fox

@JourneymanGeek It was the blue one. And it was under my stapler, which is why I couldn't find it because seriously who even uses a stapler these days?

Daniel

I quote "For all you Super Users out there. Oh, Do behave."

Journeyman Geek

1:35 AM

@KitZ.Fox was it a red swingline stapler?

Kit Z. Fox

@MichaelFrank I dunno. Like 10 or something.

@JourneymanGeek No. I lied just then. Sorry for the lying. It was supposed to be funny.

Michael Frank

@JourneymanGeek That's possibly the most hipster thing I've ever heard.

Kit Z. Fox

@MichaelFrank Office Space references are hipster?

Wow, I'm fashionable.

Journeyman Geek

@KitZ.Fox Isn't office space mainstream now?

Michael Frank

Oh, I've seen that movie. That was a quote?

R.Doto

1:37 AM

@Bob That's not presumptuous, at all.

Kit Z. Fox

@MichaelFrank Well, that's why he burned the building down. Because whatshisname took his red stapler.

bwDraco

Did Microsoft spend so much money on R&D for Windows 10 and the new Surface devices that these extremely wide profit margins are required?

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelFrank more of a reference than a quote.

Kit Z. Fox

Pretty sure profit is never actually required.

Daniel

Part of it may be that they're giving free licenses away from Win7 and 8 users

Journeyman Geek

1:39 AM

Like refering to the imperial school of gunnery "Guaranteed to miss the broad side of a barn"

@bwDraco 1tb SSDs are pretty pricy

Kit Z. Fox

@JourneymanGeek More like in-group status signaling, really. Now I know we are contemporaries with similar cultural upbringing.

Journeyman Geek

and I kinda doubt that aluminium monobodies scale.

Kit Z. Fox

coughs again

R.Doto

@JourneymanGeek Nope, experience is not important in this context. It just makes you a bigot.

bwDraco

@JourneymanGeek Huh. It's PCIe storage. The SSD itself probably costs close to $1000.

High-end i7 processors aren't cheap, either.

The processor itself costs nearly $400.

Kit Z. Fox

1:41 AM

Good lord.

Get a water jacket for that.

bwDraco

The display assembly and dGPU each cost another several hundred dollars.

Kit Z. Fox

I keep thinking one of these days I'm going to have a sweet gaming rig.

This usually happens right before I pack my kids' lunches.

bwDraco

The chassis itself likely costs a few hundred bucks to make.

Come to think of it, the BOM may well be as high as $2500.

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco naturally

bwDraco

In other words, the 1TB Surface Book is insanely expensive because it's insanely expensive to manufacture.

allquixotic

1:46 AM

@bwDraco does the "$400 processor" take into account that it doesn't actually cost Intel that much to manufacture it, but rather they mark it up hugely because (1) they have a virtual monopoly (AMD is not a competitor on the CPU front; they just aren't); and (2) they can bill it as "recouping our R&D costs" while making record profits? :P

ditto high-end SSDs

bwDraco

SSD probably costs about $600 to $650 (considering the cost of a 512GB SSD 950 PRO).

In other words, processor and storage alone already exceed $1000.

Chassis and display probably account for another $300-500.

dGPU, memory, and other internal system components are probably another $300-500.

Realistically, the BOM is probably in the ballpark of $1800 to $2200.

$3200 nonetheless provides a big profit margin but let's not forget that the machine is expensive to manufacture in the first place.

Daniel

I bought a 250GB SSD a few weeks back. It cost me $85

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic Tho as a 'halo' product, MS might be getting a slightly nicer deal.

bwDraco

@Daniel It's a PCI Express NVMe SSD. We're not talking about old SATA tech here. These drives are not cheap.

Journeyman Geek

@Daniel 250gb is the sweetspot

Daniel

1:52 AM

Those are similarly priced

Journeyman Geek

and You probably got a TLC drive?

barlop

oh man.. if now they talk about TLC drives they're really running out of abbreviations

Daniel

bleeding edge: amazon.com/Samsung-950-256GB-PCIe-NVMe/dp/B01639696U/…

I got a Samsung 850 EVO

barlop

TLC is an abbreviation for "tender loving care"

Journeyman Geek

nope

triple level cell

Which is cheaper

bwDraco

1:53 AM

Triple-level cell. Each cell stores three bits of data.

Journeyman Geek

@Daniel The evo is kind of their budget drives

Kit Z. Fox

Wow, I was thinking Salt n Pepa there.

bwDraco

Cheaper to manufacture, but slower and less reliable.

That Brazilian Guy

Aaaaaah, moderators, moderators everywhere

Is it mandatory to be some sort of animal to became a mod?

Journeyman Geek

@ThatBrazilianGuy REALLY? WHERE

@ThatBrazilianGuy No, but it helps

Daniel

1:54 AM

The EVO is a budget drive, but it's still high performance

barlop

@ThatBrazilianGuy are there a lot of transexuals in brazil, and if so, why?

Daniel

It'll run as fast as the SATA bus will

Journeyman Geek

@barlop 0_0

That Brazilian Guy

@JourneymanGeek Those guys with blue on their avatars and diamonds on their ~~pockets~~ nicknames

Dave

bwDraco

1:55 AM

Gotta go. Big term projects to work on.

o/

Journeyman Geek

@ThatBrazilianGuy hats

That Brazilian Guy

Daniel

thinks of diamond on hat ... thinks Major

Dave

Lol

Daniel

!!learn rimshot "Badum-tish"

ChatBot John Cavil

1:56 AM

@Daniel Command rimshot learned

Daniel

Why is your chatbot sooo much faster than mine?

That Brazilian Guy

Journeyman Geek

@Daniel Better hardware? ;p

Daniel

I'm on a 2011 Mac Mini, 2.3GHz dual-core intel, 8GB memory

with awesome internet

Journeyman Geek

rofl

Daniel

1:57 AM

you?

Journeyman Geek

(Most folks here have a dedi)

Dave

Less hops to stack over flow probably

That Brazilian Guy

/dedi/jedi/

Daniel

I would have a dedi

Journeyman Geek

My server's a 8 core avaton with 8gb of memory.

Daniel

1:58 AM

but I need to figure out how to get the bot running on a headless dedi

RETURN OF THE DEDI

bwDraco

I have two Linodes, one 1GB and one 2GB.

Daniel

Speaking of servers

Journeyman Geek

@Daniel What I tend to do is test stuff at home (I have a tiny little NUC class machine) then move stuff over to the VM running on my dedi

Daniel

I once built a 64-core, 512GB memory server

Yeah, this is at home

Journeyman Geek

lol

Daniel

1:59 AM

but technically my dedi is a text-only VM somewhere in Texas

Journeyman Geek

thats a vps

Daniel

it's hosting km4ayu.com

at the moment

yeah it is

Journeyman Geek

a dedi means you rent a whole machine

Daniel

well nvm then

That Brazilian Guy

@JourneymanGeek ahhhh

Daniel

2:00 AM

and technically it's not mine, I merely have root access to it

Now, I COULD theoretically put a dedi in Atlanta, GA, at the 56 Marietta datacenter

a real dedi

not one of those fake virtualized ones is crushed in debate

Hey, @ChatBotJohnCavil's owner, what's Cavil's traceroute to stackoverflow.com?

allquixotic

@Daniel A moment.

@Daniel 5 hops

Daniel

traceroute: Warning: stackoverflow.com has multiple addresses; using 104.16.35.249
traceroute to stackoverflow.com (104.16.35.249), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 192.168.199.1 (192.168.199.1) 1.198 ms 1.186 ms 1.158 ms
2 * * *
3 dtr03mntval-tge-0-6-1-2.mntv.al.charter.com (96.34.75.113) 21.085 ms 11.447 ms 11.689 ms
4 crr02mntval-bue-117.mntv.al.charter.com (96.34.75.67) 10.350 ms 27.032 ms 10.157 ms
5 crr01mtgmal-bue-153.mtgm.al.charter.com (96.34.74.90) 36.731 ms 15.307 ms 22.277 ms

Most of those hops are inside charter's network though

and it's low priority

so basically 5 or 6 hops for me as well

allquixotic

two hops to the network edge, then a starred out something, then

 4  chi-2-6k.il.us (178.32.135.199)  89.072 ms * xe-1-2-0.edge01.ord02.as13335.net (206.223.119.180)  17.501 ms
 5  104.16.33.249 (104.16.33.249)  17.480 ms  17.463 ms xe-1-2-0.edge01.ord02.as13335.net (206.223.119.180)  17.496 ms

Dave

Try chat.stack overflow.com

allquixotic

15 hops to chat

looks like still only 2 hops to the provider edge, then the rest:

3  nwk-5-a9.nj.us (198.27.73.206)  8.726 ms  8.854 ms  8.893 ms
 4  * * nwk-20-6k.nj.us (192.99.146.95)  8.744 ms
 5  nyk-5-6k.ny.us (178.32.135.58)  9.130 ms  9.322 ms  9.260 ms
 6  10gigabitethernet1-2.core1.nyc6.he.net (198.32.160.61)  18.280 ms  17.791 ms  17.771 ms
 7  10ge3-3.core1.nyc5.he.net (72.52.92.102)  9.364 ms  9.542 ms  9.569 ms
 8  lightower-fiber-networks.10gigabitethernet3-2.core1.nyc5.he.net (216.66.50.106)  9.408 ms  9.256 ms  9.355 ms
 9  ae12.nycmnyzrj91.lightower.net (64.72.64.110)  9.342 ms  9.228 ms  9.349 ms

Daniel

2:08 AM

traceroute to chat.stackexchange.com (198.252.206.29), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 192.168.199.1 (192.168.199.1) 1.226 ms 1.407 ms 1.228 ms
2 * * *
3 dtr03mntval-tge-0-6-1-2.mntv.al.charter.com (96.34.75.113) 12.414 ms 11.072 ms 9.088 ms
4 crr02mntval-bue-117.mntv.al.charter.com (96.34.75.67) 26.093 ms 11.133 ms 10.620 ms
5 crr01mtgmal-bue-153.mtgm.al.charter.com (96.34.74.90) 27.483 ms 12.402 ms 28.871 ms
6 crr02mtgmal-bue-150.mtgm.al.charter.com (96.34.74.65) 15.574 ms 11.212 ms 19.611 ms

Woah

so apparently your dedi is a couple NETWORKS closer than mine.

Dave

Ouch

Daniel

yeah

but hey, I'm in Alabaster, AL, not a datacenter

allquixotic

mine is coming from Beauharnois, Canada... but it sits right on a tier 1, multiple tier 1s in fact

Daniel

ha

!!rimshot

ChatBot John Cavil

@Daniel Badum-tish

Daniel

2:13 AM

My Dad's company's VoIP server that we use for the house phone:

traceroute to pugnacious.ipifony.com (66.182.149.34), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 192.168.199.1 (192.168.199.1) 1.746 ms 0.361 ms 1.303 ms
2 * * *
3 dtr03mntval-tge-0-6-1-2.mntv.al.charter.com (96.34.75.113) 35.907 ms 25.847 ms 12.876 ms
4 crr02mntval-bue-117.mntv.al.charter.com (96.34.75.67) 9.338 ms 12.644 ms 13.103 ms
5 crr01mtgmal-bue-153.mtgm.al.charter.com (96.34.74.90) 14.139 ms 23.264 ms 14.357 ms
6 crr02mtgmal-bue-150.mtgm.al.charter.com (96.34.74.65) 13.118 ms 22.859 ms 14.476 ms

They have a direct cross-connect to charter

annnnnnnd the room goes silent

Well ChatBot John, it looks like it's you and me again

!!listcommands

ChatBot John Cavil

@Daniel help, listen, eval, coffee, refresh, forget, info, listcommands, tell, afk, awsm, ban, unban, color, convert, define, doge, domain, export, findcommand, forgetseen, github, google, hang, inhistory, import, jquery, learn, test, why, hello, friday, after5, theanswer, caution, nicethings, goaway, status, poptart, routertroubleshooting, networkingproblem, meta, rlemon, no, foxno, yes, orlmente, fixit, uio, taytaytay, ping, say, facepalm, hv, ohhh, whocares, snore, toostupid, bababababat
plz, whee, lol, ittts, gates, potato, pissed, evil, ohmy, cancer, theplan, thisplanet, win, suatmm, {…

Daniel

!!gates

ChatBot John Cavil