Root Access

no one makes better, annoyingly robust membrane keyboards. If you want something smaller... i think deal extreme sells a VERY nice, relatively cheap low profile keyboard

studiohack

12:55 AM

@JourneymanGeek I like logitechs. but I need a chiclet or a laptop profile, can't stand anything else

sidran32

Oh!

It used buckling spring switches :P

Journeyman Geek

ooh

sidran32

clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/11066/…

Journeyman Geek

one moment

model M

TOLD YOU ;p

sidran32

It was an amazing keyboard. Wish my parents had it :P

still, that is :P

Nope, it was a model F :P

Journeyman Geek

12:56 AM

OOH

that was my second guess

@studiohack: geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=All+About+Scissor+Switches

sidran32

I think we had a model M. But the ctrl key was very hard to press

We got rid of it. It wasn't fun to use

Journeyman Geek

@sidran32: BS spring keyboards are properly manly man keyboards!

sidran32

Hm. it might not have been a proper model M. Maybe a lookalike :P

studiohack

hard to tell if this one is slim or not

amazon.com/Logitech-Keyboard-One-touch-Internet-920-002719/dp/…

sidran32

@JourneymanGeek It was my first mechanical keyboard. It also is my benchmark of keyboard build quality in all aspects. Keys, casing, durability, weight :3

studiohack

12:59 AM

@JourneymanGeek ooooh - bascially all about laptop profile keyboards?

sidran32

@JourneymanGeek The Das come close to a similar feel. It's just not as bulky.

@JourneymanGeek if you edit Wiki, you should probably make this page:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_F_keyboard

Journeyman Geek

@studiohack: ya

@sidran32: honestly the sheer wieght is one thing i love about my BW, the other is that i could get it locally

studiohack

1:30 AM

> Now here's a trick. If you can check out the keyboard in person bring a standard 8.5"x11" piece of paper with you. If it matches the length of the main cluster (CapsLock to Enter) then you have a fullsize keyboard.

Journeyman Geek

lol

studiohack

I usually hate wireless keyboards, with all the batteries and such, but this is awesome, I would buy one:

amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Solar-Keyboard-K750/dp/B004MF11MU/…

will power for 3 months in darkness in like several hours or something

sidran32

Nice

Journeyman Geek

eheh

@studiohack: there's supposed to be a new wireless chip coming out with something like 5 years of power off an AA battery

studiohack

@JourneymanGeek oh neat

sidran32

1:39 AM

I do have a wireless IR keyboard that I use with my desktop when I'm hanging out on my bed. Uses AAs or something. I don't find myself needing to change the batteries a ton. But I don't use it heavily either.

Journeyman Geek

And the batteries on my mouse are supposed to last a year

studiohack

I never really saw the point of wireless, to be honest.

not much point, anyways

Journeyman Geek

@sidran32: I have the dell set up for school work, and i have a logitech mx310 on it. I've used my mouse heavily since i got it (3-4 months) and still going strong ;p

@studiohack: two usecases for me are for using the TV as a monitor, and laptops

sidran32

@studiohack I have this one. It has a clearly defined point. :)

amazon.com/Microsoft-Remote-Keyboard-Windows-ZV1-00004/dp/…

studiohack

@JourneymanGeek why laptops? I can understand a TV (moot point for me)

sidran32

1:40 AM

That's primarily what I use it for, too

Works in Windows 7 just fine

studiohack

@sidran32 awesome!

Journeyman Geek

@studiohack: extra wires coming out of a laptop are annoying

sidran32

No drivers needed. :P

Journeyman Geek

with modern low profile dongles you could just leave the dongle in place as well

sidran32

Literally plug in the IR receiver and you're good to go

Though it doesn't come with one. I had to buy the receiver separate.

Journeyman Geek

1:46 AM

lots of older laptops came with IR built in

might work with that

studiohack

@JourneymanGeek my laptop, which is my main machine, has usually minimum 5 cords out of it

sidran32

It does. Worked with my Pavilion tx2500z

Journeyman Geek

@studiohack: i try to avoid that, though i have situations where i have a monitor, a keyboard, DAW and external hard drives plugged in

but lets say, you brought your laptop out...

studiohack

@JourneymanGeek because you move your laptop out?

Journeyman Geek

just whip out the mouse/keyboard...

@studiohack: thats the entire point of a laptop ;p

studiohack

1:49 AM

@JourneymanGeek I just unplug everything and I'm good to go :)

Journeyman Geek

I unpug one plug, and poof ;p

sidran32

When my laptop was my main computer, I had a dock, and all my peripherals were plugged into that. Just push a button and lift the laptop off or put it back on, and that's it. :P

studiohack

I have ethernet instead of wifi when at my desk, since the speeds especially on the LAN are faster and I prefer not to be fried by the wifi constantly.... the battery is junk, and I have an external mouse + keyboard, as well as my listening device (headphone jack)

Journeyman Geek

lol

sidran32

Most laptop manufacturers have such a mechanism. This was a Dell. HP has something like that too, I recall.

Journeyman Geek

1:50 AM

i need to take a pic of the dell

the front panel is totally bogged down with things

sidran32

This is what I had:

discountelectronics.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2517

Journeyman Geek

plus.google.com/photos/106187684082000485043/albums/… its a desktop but...

wireless USB dongle, two hard drives, and a headphone jack ;p

and amusingly this is the only functional desktop i will have until next week, when i go get a new video card ;p

Journeyman Geek

2:18 AM

@sidran32: you don't know the story about the dumpster dell?

sidran32

I do know.

Was wondering if there was another mystery behind it :P

studiohack

@JourneymanGeek is that your dumpster dell! that's way neat, relatively new

Journeyman Geek

@studiohack: core 2 d, roughly 4ish year old system i believe

studiohack

I'm thinking I'll go with this

amazon.com/Microsoft-Wired-Keyboard-600-Black/dp/B001OAR26K/…

@JourneymanGeek that's what I have (Core 2 Duo)

Journeyman Geek

@sidran32: only why someone threw it out

@studiohack: my main desktop is as well. as is my old laptop

sidran32

2:21 AM

@JourneymanGeek Ah.

@studiohack That's the exact keyboard I have at work.

It's not bad, but the tiny function keys are maddening to me. :P

studiohack

@sidran32 do you like it?

sidran32

I keep missing them, and they're only barely set out of the keyboard itself, so I end up hitting the casing sometimes anyway, even if I do hit the key.

studiohack

biggest complaint seems to be the arrow keys, and how they go "below" the keyboard

Journeyman Geek

@sidran32: someone smart enough to remove the hard drive, but not to try it without discrete video card

studiohack

@sidran32 good to know...

sidran32

2:22 AM

@studiohack I don't really mind the arrow keys but I'm not using it to play games very often either.

studiohack

@sidran32 I'm not a gamer - but I am a good touch typist - mainly want something pretty high quality (last one was a Rosewill nice but ugh), but not too expensive, to use with various computers and tech support

sidran32

@studiohack You may have to retrain yourself on the function keys. I personally don't like it. But otherwise there's nothing really wrong with it.

I do think it's slightly smaller than a full size keyboard though. But I never measured it.

It's not a mechanical keyboard. I'll just say that right now. :P

studiohack

@sidran32 I want a mechanical, but I don't really want to spend the money

I'd like a Razer Black Widow... $120!

sidran32

@studiohack Aha. For a portable keyboard that you'd be carrying around, I wouldn't bother with a mechanical one. For a keyboard that I'd be using every day for hours, I'd rather it be mechanical.

studiohack

@sidran32 I use my laptop, or the Logi Illuminated Ultra Thin for my primary machine

sidran32

2:25 AM

@studiohack It should be a decent choice.

studiohack

@sidran32 how are the profile? pretty regular, or are they thinner than most?

sidran32

But why they did what they did with the function keys, I'll never figure out :P

What, that keyboard?

studiohack

@sidran32 yeah

sidran32

It's not too bad. On the thin side but not super thin. Light, as a keyboard of that type would be. You can get a feel for the thickness in the photo on this site:

microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/wired-keyboard-600/ANB-00001

They don't measure that dimension though, unfortunately

studiohack

thanks for the link/photo, that site helps

sidran32

2:27 AM

Yup

No problem

studiohack

sorry for all the questions... does the angle of the space bar/bottom row of keys bother you/seem unusual?

sidran32

It seemed a bit unusual when I first put my hands on it but in use, I never really found it to be a problem.

Understandably, your thumbs will generally fall a little lower than your fingers, anyway.

studiohack

right... thank you! I like having real impressions from other people :)

sidran32

It does feel good to type on though, despite it not being a mechanical keyboard. I just hate the function key design choice :P

Not a problem :)

studiohack

my other choice, for $20 - seems a little bit better

amazon.com/Microsoft-Digital-Media-Keyboard-3000/dp/B0013ITQA8/…

lol, I'm always like, this agonizing over everything, I'm tight with money and what I want

sidran32

2:30 AM

It's ok. :) That one does look nice, too. Though perhaps a little bigger.

May not be quite as portable.

They actually measure thickness on this one:

microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/digital-media-keyboard-3000/…

studiohack

well, I have a corner office (as in, corner of a bedroom), and I have a lot of PCs and such in a small space, so am not worried about portability, more like just being able to set it down and move it around and such... and something that I would be okay with ending up being my custom build's permanent keyboard

mainly just durable and not gonna break the bank

sidran32

Ya, it's slightly narrower, but about a little less than an inch taller.

Ah, thought you were gonna bring it around when you do tech support so you don't have to type on other people's keyboards :P

Journeyman Geek

@studiohack: nearly every keyboard i've used, no matter how cheap, has outlasted the system its plugged into ;p

studiohack

@sidran32 looking at it now - looks quite good. this one seems worth the extra money...

sidran32

Pretty much what @JourneymanGeek said. My keyboard I had when I started college still works. It's just really, really dirty. I was using it at work but I'm replacing it with the Das :P

studiohack

2:33 AM

@JourneymanGeek I had a Rosewill - lasted about a week, and I only typed probably for a total of 10 minutes that whole week. $10 bucks. very expensive for what it was, I've realized I can get lots nicer keyboards for the same money.

Journeyman Geek

o0

studiohack

RMA'ed it, sold it to my brother, broke even. Cheers :P

Journeyman Geek

@studiohack: I have an old 'mercury' which i think is close to a decade old

Its a clacky membrane keyboard ;p

by which i mean, its fairly horrid

studiohack

This one - don't every buy it: newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201047

lol

sidran32

Wow, after a week, that's amazing.

studiohack

2:34 AM

@sidran32 I hardly ever used it!

Journeyman Geek

most of my gear NEEDS to last at least 5 years or so

usually more

pokes at his desktop

sidran32

See, a great keyboard for what it is. But look how dirty it is :o

Had it since 2004. In college, I ate over it because of lack of deskspace. So that's why. :P

studiohack

@sidran32 lol, makes me thankful for my 12" of space on my desk :P

sidran32

:P

Here's a zoomed out view. It really isn't a bad keyboard. Just really dirty.

It has two USB ports on it, but only USB1.1

Good enough for a mouse though :P

studiohack

an older Dell keyboard... interesting

Journeyman Geek

2:39 AM

passthrough or hub?

sidran32

@JourneymanGeek Hub.

studiohack

yeah, I think I'm going with this one: amazon.com/Microsoft-Digital-Media-Keyboard-3000/dp/B0013ITQA8/…

sidran32

Looks good to me, @studiohack

studiohack

awesome keyboard for the price it seems, I may even swap out my Logi Illuminated (which I really like, but the spacebar misses spaces sometimes, annoying and a known problem)

I also touch type a lot, so actually don't need the lights much. but it is really cool :)

@sidran32 thanks! Appreciate the feedback on the other one

sidran32

Not a prob, @studiohack :)

This is my currently used keyboard. Cherry MX Blue switches. :)

studiohack

2:43 AM

@sidran32 is that a DAS? your older one?

wyocalboy

hey, does anyone know if there is a good USB expansion hub that won't slow down my transfer speeds?

sidran32

@studiohack Yup :)

studiohack

welcome to Root Access @wyocalboy

wyocalboy

@studiohack thanks!

sidran32

@wyocalboy Any USB hub will slow down your speeds because of the way USB handles data traffic. But I think only if there's data flowing over it. I think that if there's not much going on, speeds shouldn't diminish too much.

studiohack

2:45 AM

@sidran32 that would be perfect for me as a touch typist, though it would be awesome/yet weird not having any labels :P looks good. and nice monitor too

sidran32

@studiohack It is. It's a bit jarring at first not having labels, but now when I look down on it, I can identify keys just by their location. I touch type myself, though, so my typing speed hasn't decreased at all when using it.

And thanks, the monitor is an Acer HS244HQ. It's 3D. Cheapest one I could find, too. :P

wyocalboy

@sidran32 ok, good to know... I need one for mouse, keyboard, flash drive, external hard drive

studiohack

@sidran32 that's really cool! I'm in the dark a lot with my laptop, so I've learned a lot over the years getting to know it, without seeing it

@sidran32 this is my dream monitor, I would like 3 for my build ;)

amazon.com/gp/product/B0045332VW/…

sidran32

@wyocalboy Ya, for that use, the keyboard and mouse use minimal amount of traffic. The external hard drive and flash drive would be the major players, but you probably won't notice much in terms of speed issues unless you're transferring from the hard drive to the flash drive. :P

Nice, @studiohack. But it's TN. :P S-IPS is better. :)

Journeyman Geek

XD

studiohack

2:49 AM

@sidran32 TN? versus S-IPS?

sidran32

The Acer is TN too. But not a bad quality one. Some are worse than others :P

Journeyman Geek

'regular' LCDs

@sidran32: actually, only two companies make the panels now

studiohack

@JourneymanGeek oh, versus LED or what?

sidran32

TN = Twisted-neumonic. It's an LCD technology. Cheapest one so it's most popular.

Journeyman Geek

/me has an asus

wyocalboy

2:49 AM

@sidran32 alright, thanks for the info!

Journeyman Geek

hmm

LED and non LED use the same panels, with different backlights - both are TN

sidran32

IPS = In-plane-switching. It's more expensive, but has wiiiiiiide viewing angles and great color reproduction. Mostly sought after by photo professionals.

Journeyman Geek

IPS is a different tech, its sharper and brighter

sidran32

I forget what the S in S-IPS stands for, though.

studiohack

@sidran32 ooooh, fancy :P

Journeyman Geek

2:50 AM

@sidran32: TNs have... something like 178 degree viewing angles now

Super ;p

Dan D.

i wanted to put 3 of these in portrait mode like [][][]

amazon.com/UltraSharp-U2211H-21-5-1920-1080/dp/B003ULZ1C8/…

Journeyman Geek

lol

studiohack

well, the Dell I linked is made this year, so the viewing angles might be okay

sidran32

The Acer is TN, but I have 2 Dell monitors that are S-IPS. I can't fit them on my desk right now though. And they're smaller (only 1680x1050 resolution). But they are excellent monitors.

Journeyman Geek

I have an asus with the exact same specs

its lovely

sidran32

2:52 AM

@studiohack It probably isn't too bad. I was impressed that the TN panel in my Acer was as good as it is. Not as good as IPS, but better than TN panels even a couple years ago.

studiohack

@DanD those would be awesome - would you get Eyefinity too?

@sidran32 again, I'm not a gamer, but I enjoy photography as well as movies

Dan D.

@studiohack honestly i didn't think i had a choice not to as its near impossible to set them up as a single X11 display without it.

sidran32

This is what those two monitors are:

reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/dell-ultrasharp-2007wfp/…

Actually very hard to find now. People are hanging on to them. They were cheap and IPS panels. I got mine for I think about $200, which is unheard of. :P

studiohack

@DanD do you have them (those monitors) now? or a dream?

sidran32

Anytime someone puts one up for sale, it goes fast.

studiohack

2:54 AM

@sidran32 both of them? for $200 total?

sidran32

One for $200.

They aren't dropping in price though. Sometimes can be had for more than that :P

I bought the second one only in 2010, after I got the first one about in 2007.

Journeyman Geek

Thing with dells is, if you wait for the right moment, they occationally put really nice monitors up cheap

sidran32

I actually had to search hard for the second one, because like I said, they go quickly.

studiohack

@sidran32 yikes... I'm willing to pay around $100 for a monitor, but after that, it's just too much

Dan D.

@studiohack no i don't have them but i was thinking about how to cheaply set up an approximation to a 100+ppi 36 by 24in display for a few months.

sidran32

2:56 AM

@studiohack It actually was the cheapest one I could find at the size I wanted, at the time. I just got lucky. Didn't know a thing about IPS vs TN. :P

studiohack

@sidran32 lol

Journeyman Geek

lol

sidran32

I still didn't know for a couple years. All I knew was it was an amazing monitor. When I hooked it up, it blew me away with how clear the image was and how there was literally almost 0 color change at extreme viewing angles.

The only thing that happens with these is the black goes only slightly purple, but it's not even very much.

Journeyman Geek

@sidran32: i have the same with my TN monitors ._.

studiohack

speaking of displays, with Windows 8 making a huge advance in touch compatibility - so it looks like my next laptop will be (ideally) a laptop/tablet combo, like the touch version of @JourneymanGeek's X220

Journeyman Geek

2:58 AM

/me has to calibrate the monitors, but i like them cooler than then most

sidran32

:)

studiohack

hopefully in 2-3 years...

Journeyman Geek

@studiohack: Steven Hawking has one!

studiohack

@JourneymanGeek so I've heard :P

Journeyman Geek