@LeeWoofenden There's a big difference between "I don't see that in the Bible" and "Other people aren't seeing it in the Bible and are just making it up".

A huge number of people, some of whom are highly intelligent and not intellectually dishonest, do see Protestant doctrine taught in the Bible without feeling any need whatsoever to fall back onto non-Biblical sources.

You're saying that you can't see it in the Bible. Cool, but others do see it in the Bible. You're basically calling them liars who are just making stuff up, because you can't see what/the way they see.

Please have the grace to realise that there are honest people out there who don't need anything but the Bible to come to Protestant conclusions as to what the Bible actually teaches. You might disagree about what it teaches, but they aren't lying about what they genuinely see in the plain teaching of the Bible.

@LeeWoofenden Exactly what Christ Alone is all about ;)

And that is why prayer to the saints, to Mary, and the Catholic practice of confession are so deeply offensive to us protestants

@Birdie Those are all nice words. Now show me where the Bible says that we are justified by faith alone, and where it says that Christ paid the penalty for our sins. I can show you where it says that we are not justified by faith alone. And I can show you where it says the Lord detests an innocent person suffering for the offenses of the guilty.

@LeeWoofenden You're still not listening...many people here have already shown you where they see that the Bible says those things. You don't seem to be able to believe that people can actually see those things honestly, even after many people have shown you how. You're welcome to disagree that those things are so, but at least have the grace to recognize people aren't being dishonest in what they see.

Question!:

You must keep the Sabbath day, for it is a holy day for you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community EXODUS 31 :14

@Birdie Don't put words in my mouth. I never said people who see those things in the Bible are being dishonest. I said that they're seeing wrongly, because those things aren't actually there. Someone with a visual impairment is not dishonest due to that visual impairment. But that person still doesn't see properly.

@Birdie I'm not interested in honesty or dishonesty here. I'm interested in your showing me where the Bible says that we are justified by faith alone, and where it says that Christ paid the penalty for our sins. So far no one has been able to show me any such passages. And the reason for that is simple: The Bible doesn't actually say those things.

But the Bible does say, in words as plain as day, that we are not justified by faith alone. And it says in words as plain as day that the Lord detests punishing the innocent for the offenses of the guilty.

In other words, the Bible rejects those doctrines in plain words. And it never states those doctrines in plain words. So why should I listen to human reasoning when the Bible is very clear that those doctrines are false?

@Aigle The very next verse says:

> Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall be put to death.

So apparently being "cut off from the community" in verse 14 is just another way of saying being put to death. Not that it necessarily means that in every instance. But in this instance the immediate context is clear that working on the sabbath carries the death penalty. IOW, desecrating the sabbath and working on the sabbath are basically the same thing here.

@LeeWoofenden Yes ,but some say ,there is a spiritual death,not being a part of a community with revalation and so on.But getting killed is when You go against God "in his face" .Not sure,I think it is an interesting question.And could give an answer for the spiritual life many christians live "because many are outside the community"

There should be a spiritual connection to Israel in Jesus

You write: "the very next vers says" But maybe the first vers does explain the second

@Aigle Yes, I think it has that kind of spiritual meaning. But the ancient Israelites took their laws quite literally. For them, "death" meant physical death.

as far as I know you teach that not only Christians come to heaven.