Also, @MattGutting, you could have brought up Jesus' statements equating anger with murder and lust with adultery. Covetousness would then be equivalent to theft under the same pattern.
> based on what I interpret as his past behavior towards me.
Does that mean you'd think differently if you felt like you were not getting your just rewards?
Because many people do. And I'm not referring to those whiny kinds that complain about not having enough money to buy an iPhone. I'm talking about those poor souls that don't even have a house.
@LeeWoofenden That can only be stretched so far. Some people who don't deserve it have all the resources, for example. In your definition, we should be content that he is the only one with plenty and the rest of us struggle to get a piece of the scarcity that remains.
Most ethics frameworks require an element of universality. Your definition seems to fall short of that.
@El'endiaStarman I know our beloved DoI says it, but I reject the notion that all people are equal. Some persons are objectively better in many ways than their peers.
In your definition, it is always sinful pride to think you are better than another.
Even if we accept that as a given, what about thinking one person you know is better than another? Should not that be a sin too, since we are all equal?
> 9 Masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Don’t threaten them; remember, you both have the same Master in heaven, and he has no favorites. - Ephesians 6:9 (NLT)
> 9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.
@El'endiaStarman That establishes that God treats equally, but it does not establish that all are objectively equal. Which is why we have a problem that I've been pointing out to @MattGutting
I think part of your issue is a different definition of "equal". Also, if you reject Jesus' teaching on anger and lust, then I see well why you would reject the idea that coveting is a sin (at least, for that reason).
This takes too much faith for me. It's mostly why I left the faith. I have to just believe that God is fair, despite the very obvious injustice everywhere I look.
@El'endiaStarman Equal in value (as in usefulness for some purpose), virtue, deeds, faith ... Can you name me one thing that we are assuredly all equal on?
@fredsbend Well, equal in terms of worth. Mainly in how good we are. I think of that in a more spiritual than material sense, though, so I don't think you would accept that. I have the concept in my head but words are being difficult right now...
> 24 The sins of some are obvious, reaching the place of judgment ahead of them; the sins of others trail behind them. 25 In the same way, good deeds are obvious, and even those that are not obvious cannot remain hidden forever.
When I read that a couple days ago, I interpreted it to mean that none of us have perfect judgement. This is the justification for Paul's command to Timothy that he "keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism" (1 Tim 5:21).
@fredsbend If you're looking for fairness in this world, it ain't gonna happen, so you might as well get used to it. We can tinker a bit and make things better. But there will always be inequities and inequalities. The question is how we respond to them, and what we make of our own life.
@fredsbend In my view, everyone has an equal shot at heaven. For that, material circumstances don't matter.
@Mr.Bultitude: Just in case you can't see a comment on your Meta answer on the [Community Promotion Ads] thread that I just deleted, the Greek Language proposal was closed 15 hours ago, so the image was broken.
@LeeWoofenden That's the point I'm making. Shouldn't a fair God make things fair in this world? Or at least nearly fair. I've already reconciled with that; but has Christianity?
@LeeWoofenden If this is what @El'endiaStarman means by equal, then that's fine. I'm not sure that fits without bending the theology I'm familiar with, but it makes more sense than what it seemed like he was saying before.
@LeeWoofenden My original complaint with your definition of covetousness is that it cannot be universally applied. How can you expect someone to be content with having nothing along with their peers while the robber baron has everything on the other side of town?
In America today, we largely avoid this, but there's still disparity in resource use and power. Some people really do have almost all of a resource while the rest of us struggle to get by with the remaining scarcity. In other countries, not so much avoided (e.g. India).
The questions are if they've earned it and if they are just with it (meaning charitable or offer to sell at fair price to everyone).
In centuries past, the privileged were born into it, so they certainly did not earn it. And there are numerous examples of them being very unjust with it too.
Your definition requires that we just be content with injustice like this.
@fredsbend I can't speak for any kind of Christianity but my own. From a Swedenborgian perspective, what counts most is eternal fairness. Fairness in this world, while a good goal for us humans, is distinctly secondary from God's perspective. There really is no ratio between any number of years or decades here on earth and eternity.
@fredsbend As a matter of fact, many poor people are quite happy, while many rich people are quite miserable. Yes, those who lack basic necessities of food and water will have a hard time being happy. And that's something we need to do something about. But presuming basic needs are met, happiness doesn't correlate well with wealth or lack thereof.
@fredsbend It's all temporary, and they can't take it with them. Of course, if you don't believe there's an afterlife, it's a serious problem. I think Christianity can deal with these issues much batter than atheists and agnostics. Still, it should not make us complacent about righting the wrongs of this world. Most of them are caused by governments and greed. That's something we should be fixing.
@El'endiaStarman Probably. I put eleven edits through on the 22nd on Server Fault. Just happened to be browsing the site and see a fair bit that needed editing.
@LeeWoofenden Well, we are at an impasse. I find that a convenient way to explain away something that we should be working against. If whatever happens after death is more important than real life, then you'll find a reason to avoid changing what goes on in real life.
The Upper Room
The Upper Room