[grid-deduction] Puzzle Solving

Sciborg

04:00

but then i consider that 5, because it has to fill 5 squares

bobble

it's fun watching you think

Sciborg

so i can close the left side of the 5

and then close that 5

i'm on a ROLL now

and so, i can close the bottom left L, too.

because otherwise there's no way to fill that empty space

bobble

also, Mando was short and did indeed have a tragedy

Sciborg

and now i can see that there's only one way to close the 4, so i can close the 4.

pauses for breath

bobble

you've finished the logic on the left side for now

Sciborg

04:03

all good so far? :D

bobble

yep!

Sciborg

i am so insanely proud of that giant chunk i just did all by myself

bobble

you are Smart Baby Bird

Sciborg

ORIENTATION LOGIC with the left top open circle now! it can't go left, obviously, so it must go right. so i can draw borders there

which now means the top right open circle has fewer options

and it must go bottom, so more borders

and now i have to ponder this, because the top left L needs to close.

and the arrows also must point towards joints.

bobble

(do bottom right first)

Sciborg

04:07

bottom right?

okay, hm

bobble

bottom right is supposed to go before top right

Sciborg

well, i know there's that 4 that needs to close, and it either goes left-up or right-up.

meaning that there will be empty space below it that must be an L either way.

hmm

there's a deduction here and i can feel it, but it currently escapes me

bobble

try using the can't-make-non-L-shapes logic

Sciborg

that's where i'm stuck

can you give me a hint about Problems?

i know there's something here that causes Problems

bobble

you use Problems to deduce-by-contradiction the position of the 4

Sciborg

04:12

well, 4 has two possibilities, left-up or right-up. so one of those must cause a Problem

so if it's right-up, then it's 3-height and closes there

and it leaves the left square open

meaning that the empty circle-L closes and... hmmmm

i see a Problem

there is a Problem if it goes right-up

right?

bobble

yes

Sciborg

i found the Problem! i knew there was a Problem somewhere

so then the 4 definitely goes left-up and i can place borders

and complete the 4, actually

and NOW i can do the 5 finally

because i have to complete that little mini-L, so the 5 is actually 4-wide

bobble

is this quadrant's logic also being fun?

Sciborg

it is very fun

i couldn't pinpoint it but my "There Is A Problem Somewhere" sense was going off

so now, i can go back to the top right because now it's easier to do

the 5 has to contain 5 squares, so i can draw borders

so now I can use "These F*cking L Pieces Have To Go Somewhere" logic

because i can see two ghost L-pieces that have to go to the right of the 5-piece, and those both need to be Ls

bobble

ghost L-pieces

Sciborg

04:19

i can see dead pieces

i'm so happy that my brain is actually getting this now

this is incredibly satisfying

bobble

brain stims!

Sciborg

my brain is so happy

so, the top right open circle - i was between it being right-down and left-down

merrybot

@Sciborg that is my new favorite Puzzling quote; will add to my profile

Sciborg

i'm glad i could be of service :p

so if that open circle is right-down, then it must connect to the arrow, because otherwise the arrow has no friend and that causes Problems.

if it is left-down, then that creates PROBLEMS because it creates a shape that cannot be an L

bobble

um have you placed the ghost Ls yet and the 5?

Sciborg

04:23

not yet i will get back to the ghost Ls

bobble

you can place the 5 and the ghost Ls

Sciborg

the open circle must therefore be right-down because left-down causes problems

should i place the ghost pieces first?

bobble

the 5 can be placed one way because the other makes the ghost pieces sad, and then once the 5 is in you can place the ghosts

Sciborg

okay, so i'll look at my happy little 5 buddy first and get back to Open Circle friend

so the 5 can be placed two ways

it can either be 4-height with a 1-width base, or 3-height with a 2-width base

so if it's a regular L...

that causes PROBLEMS

because then one of the ghost pieces is Unhappy

so it must be 3-2 and not 4-1

merrybot

just finished editing profile!

Sciborg

04:27

so now, i can complete the Ghost Pieces

@merrybot thanks :p

merrybot

@Sciborg :)

Sciborg

Now the 5 and the ghost pieces are happy

So now I see for SURE that the open circle goes bottom-right and connects to the arrow!

which means border!

so NOW i can also complete the top left L

bobble

I'm just going to let you flow here

Sciborg

so from here, i can see that our lonely bottom arrow needs a Friend

and there is only one way to draw the borders so that he has a friend!

TA-DAAAAAAA

:D :D :D

bobble

celebration

Sciborg

04:31

I am SO PROUD of myself for solving that

bobble

Did you like how the different quadrants had different logic?

Sciborg

that was such a fun puzzle!!! i loved the quadrant logic!!

bobble

@Sciborg as you should be!

Sciborg

i never realized i would LOVE sashiganes!!

you designed that so well!

bobble

thanks! :D

Sciborg

04:33

i needed some help to get started but then the rest of the logic just flowed

bobble

jacoblance.wordpress.com/2016/06/07/puzzle-130-sashigane

that's the start of a 5-puzzle series of sashiganes

Sciborg

Oooh, no arrows!

bobble

I lied, it's a 4-puzzle series

Sciborg

i'm gonna see how far i can get on this one

partner canceled our mando watch party because he was sleepy, so i have time

bobble

are you solving it in a puzz.link?

Sciborg

04:39

They didn't give a puzzlink, so i'm just doing it in Paint

bobble

I will make a puzz.link for you!

Sciborg

aww, you don't have to! paint is fine

so far i'm here

bobble

this puzzle has a single big global deduction

(which is then applied to do a bunch of smaller local ones)

Sciborg

still trying to separate the 5s

bobble

still lookin' good!

Sciborg

04:44

this is a weird puzzle

bobble

second puzzle third puzzle (note that the corners aren't used for the third) fourth puzzle

I made puzz.links for the others!

Sciborg

aww, thank you <3

good so far?

bobble

yes

did you find the global deduction?

Sciborg

possibly?

bobble

I think you might actually be able to solve without it, it'll just be a bunch easier if you figure it out

Sciborg

04:49

i think i might just be solving without it

bobble

looks like you're flowing here

Sciborg

brain is happy

bobble

this is the only site I can think of with an active chatroom specifically devoted to solving grid-deductions

also the only site which would have such a chatroom

Sciborg

Yeah :p

The placement of that corner-shaped 5 required contradiction-logic - placed it one way and realized there were Problems, so it had to go the other way

this one is really fun

bobble

have you left Statue Park for another puzzle?

Sciborg

04:55

i might have to break up with Statue Parks

this one just flows

done!

chef kiss

bobble

takes Statue Park aside I have to tell you something... you noticed that Sciborg hasn't been spending as much time with you? Well....

Sciborg

"it's not you, it's me"

the whole time i was solving that i was just doing happy stims

bobble

happy stims are the best

Sciborg

on to the second one :D

wait... this one is weird

hmmm

what the hell is up with these arrows

bobble

they point towards joints

Sciborg

05:02

right, but now i have just arrows :p

and a couple circles

oh dear

bobble

are you better with circle-logic than arrow-logic?

also this is the only puzzle in the series with arrows

Sciborg

i think so, yeah

arrow-logic is gonna be hard

i guess this is a start right?

bobble

that is a start

do you remember the bottom-left quadrant? that had arrow logic

Sciborg

the "every shape must be an L" logic

hmm

HMMM

i see some Things

the Things

bobble

do you see more Things?

Sciborg

05:07

i do see more Things

valid Things?

bobble

valid Things

Sciborg

and now for even more Things

left side Things

bobble

left side Things are correct

Sciborg

and now for the right side

i see more ghost pieces

you have taught me Ghost Piece Logic

bobble

ghost pieces have to be happy

if you make them sad they will haunt you

Sciborg

05:11

and i see how these ghost pieces need to be happy

ghost pieces are happy!

bobble

I like how puzz.links tell you when they're solved

Sciborg

Yup :D

I love this thing we have going where you and/or Deus teach me a new puzzle and some new logic, and then i go on a Solving Adventure

you are probably sleepy, though

bobble

and then you vibe and happy stim and flow!

Sciborg

yeah!

bobble

I usually log off ~9:50 my time and go to sleep ~10, so some time from now

Sciborg

05:17

good, i don't want to keep you awake

i'll do one more and then take a break

this one is all circles! my favorite :D

bobble

remember to remove the corners!

Sciborg

remove the corners?

bobble

this puzzle doesn't have any corners, but puzz.link won't let me make a non-square grid

so just border off the corners in 1x1 pieces of their own

Sciborg

ohh, i gotcha. i wish puzz.link would let you make different shaped boards

hmm, these are tricky circles

i think i see the break-in, though

so, this first

and the global deduction is that there's limited space in the middle

bobble

there are actually no required global deductions

Sciborg

05:23

the *cool thing is that there's limited space in the middle

so either left-right goes inwards or up-bottom goes inwards, but they can't both go inwards.

and the key is realizing that the 8 MUST go upwards.

bobble

yes!

Sciborg

therefore, top-bottoms are the one that go inwards.

:D

I GOT THAT ALL BY MYSELF

bobble

smart baby bird!

Sciborg

I'm so hecking proud of that one

and the other ones i can figure out direction because obviously, i have to fit all the squares that the number tells me to

and that can only happen in certain directions

bobble

and you couldn't figure out the rules a few hours earlier

Sciborg

05:27

look how far i've come

hmmm, and now i see Problems...

so, i'm here:

and there is a Problem with the 6s

bobble

aaaaaaaaaaaand that's wrong

Sciborg

yes, that's why i said Problems

so, the 8 must be shorter than i think it is

and it must be left-top instead of right-top

having to go back, hang on

i goofed up somewhere

so, if i start back from here

bobble

don't consider just the 8s by themselves - extend them a bit, then look for stuff you can do elsewhere

Sciborg

yeah. i have to extend the 8s only a little bit and then go other places, that was my goof

so if i count the maximum possible squares i could have in the 8 on the bottom, there are only 4

meaning i know the 8 extends at least 3 upwards, but might stop there

so i can extend it exactly 3 borders upwards

bobble

counting

basic arithmetic

Deusovi

05:32

@Sciborg nooooo

(also hello)

Sciborg

hello, why the nooooo??

Deusovi

statue park is so good

Sciborg

i can love both of them, they can share the love

so, with the new extending logic that is correct this time, i hope - i get here:

and now i need to stop and look other places

i can extend the 7s next, with the same counting logic

which puts me here

and now i can look at both the 7 and 8 regions for a deduction, because there are ghost pieces here

and ghost pieces must be happy and form Ls

bobble

(by the way, Deus, we've invented the term "ghost pieces" and there are deductions about making "ghost pieces happy")

Sciborg

does it not make sense though? :p

bobble

05:37

I'm having a great time over here, current stim is hair-chewing.

Sciborg

so, my little ghost piece must be happy, and there is definitely at least one of them in this region

Deusovi

i like the term "ghost pieces"

(you might also like fillomino, which has similar 'ghost piece' logic)

Sciborg

we came up with it because i had joked about seeing dead pieces

although i'm not sure if this is the intended next step, or if i need to look at the 6s next

bobble

27 mins ago, by bobble

if you make them sad they will haunt you

I'm reading through random stuff from Lit's meta

Sciborg

1 hour ago, by Sciborg

i can see dead pieces

Deusovi

05:41

i would really recommend using aux marks

Sciborg

hmm, the 6-8 crossover region might have a deduction

aux marks?

Deusovi

hold right click and drag, and you can draw lines for "these cells must be connected"

bobble

the cell-connections I keep telling you about

Sciborg

ohh! I can put some in, hang on

Deusovi

they're very helpful, in my experience

bobble

05:42

4 hours ago, by bobble

cell-connections are basically a way of saying "there can't possibly be a border here"

4 hours ago, by bobble

drawing in cell-connections was very helpful to me

Sciborg

WAIT, i just realized i can complete a 7 region, that helped me realize - thank you

Deusovi

like, would you solve a statue park without marking unshaded cells

you could but it would be much harder to keep things in your head

Sciborg

I'll try and be better about using them from now on :p

now i have the 7s finished

further things

bobble

draw all cell-connections that you can

Sciborg

Okay, hang on

more stuff?

bobble

05:47

(there are more cell-connections you can add)

Sciborg

hmm

Deusovi

i don't see how you got that the bottom 8 goes right

(but yes i see at least one more you can draw)

Sciborg

Orientation deduction i think, it has to go right-up because left-up caused Problems

but maybe i'm wrong? let me erase that aux

what other connections can i do?

bobble

where can borders not go?

Deusovi

if a numbered L has a wall close to one of its ends, its other end gets "pushed out"

Sciborg

05:51

?

Deusovi

consider the inner 6

what happens if you block off the wall immediately below it

bobble

is there room?

Sciborg

ohhhhhh

i missed that one

oooh, now i can finish the 6! i just realized

Deusovi

that's not the only one you can do it with

bobble

you can also draw some cell-connections for ghost Ls that don't have given circles

Sciborg

05:54

i do indeed see a Ghost Piece

and Ghost Pieces need to be happy

ah-ha

bobble

or they will haaaaaaunt you spooky music

Sciborg

making the Ghost Piece happy let me complete a bunch of stuff

right so far?

bobble

yep

Sciborg

now i get to make more Ghost Pieces happy

ta-da?

bobble

ta-da!

Sciborg

05:58

Yay!!! :D

That one was a bunch of extendability logic and "make the ghosts happy" logic

bobble

only one more in this series to solve

Sciborg

Ah yes, the 5s return

bobble

(and it's the HARDEST, serious, took me so long)

Sciborg

i accept this final challenge to prove i have mastered sashiganes

bobble

you will have to do it without me, for I must away

poof of yellow smoke

Sciborg

06:00

good night! thank you for helping me :)

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