[grid-deduction] Puzzle Solving

bobble

01:19

@Sciborg, do you want any help with the sashigane?

ay, you're here!

Sciborg

Hello :p

I'm kind of confused about sashigane rules

bobble

got back from a bike ride and dear goodness my legs are cold (I was wearing shorts)

so let's puzzle! I have a blanket

which part are you confused on?

Sciborg

Ooh, good idea, i'll make myself a blanket burrito - one sec

Burrito has been made, okay

So the arrow thing

The arrows point towards the "knee" of the block?

bobble

in The Sphinx's Lair, 9 hours ago, by bobble

some examples of valid L shapes

Sciborg

So the arrow always points towards the joint, it can't point outwards

bobble

01:24

the previous rule defined "knee" as bend

yep, knee = joint

and it has to be on the end

Sciborg

And the open cells are the knees

bobble

yes

also circles with numbers

puzz.link/rules.html?sashigane

Sciborg

And the numbers are the number of squares in that block?

bobble

^^ some detailed examples of how to break the rules

Sciborg

Okay

And the block doesn't necessarily have to contain an arrow

bobble

01:26

yeah, as the picture shows it can have 0, 1, or 2 arrows, and it can have a circle or not

Sciborg

ah. That makes sense now.

bobble

can you find the break-in now? It's supposed to be an easy and big one

Sciborg

i'm guessing it has to do with the fives?

bobble

the 5s, but also some stuff near the 5s....

Sciborg

well um, the arrow has to point towards the joint, and the arrows near the 5s don't point at any of the five joints

i don't know what that means deduction-wise

bobble

01:29

can you place any borders using the arrows?

Sciborg

the arrows have to be on the border, right?

bobble

not entirely sure what you mean by that, but go on

Sciborg

as in, the arrows have to be on the ends

bobble

yes...

are you using MS paint or the puzz.link?

Sciborg

the puzz.link

i can draw borders on the arrows, i think

bobble

01:31

yes

also the puzz.link lets you connect two cells as "part of the same L" - drag through the middles of the cells

and it lets you export pictures, file -> save as image file

Sciborg

Had to zoom in to see that, but yup

i drew three borders

bobble

also, remember that all Ls are one block wide

Sciborg

oh, so then i can put an L in the top right

bobble

try it and send picture?

Sciborg

no, i can't put any Ls, nevermind

i can draw half an L

bobble

01:34

but you should be able to put some borders and some cell-connections

Sciborg

that's a bold thing to assume i can do

bobble

all baby birds must learn how to do this

Sciborg

i drew these borders -

right?

bobble

those all are correct!

Sciborg

so now i can do a deduction

bobble

01:38

what is your deduction?

Sciborg

with the borders i drew, the shapes that contain those two arrows are gonna block off the fives, right?

bobble

that's the idea, yes

Sciborg

because each of those fives has to be its own L

bobble

drawing in cell-connections was very helpful to me

Sciborg

but how can i do cell-connections? i don't have anything

bobble

01:40

well, the cell right in front of an arrow is connected to it

it it wasn't there would be Problems

cell-connections are basically a way of saying "there can't possibly be a border here"

Sciborg

yes but i don't know which direction the L points, so i can't really draw borders

i'm confused

bobble

can the circled cells be connected?

Sciborg

no, the arrow has to point at the joint

bobble

so there's a border!

Sciborg

ah, okay

same thing for top arrow too

bobble

01:44

and then, remember that the 5 has to be at a 90-degree turn - can you make any cell-connections that must exist if a 90-degree turn exists?

Sciborg

i can certainly try

bobble

that's the spirit

I have dinner in ~15 ish minutes, so I'm trying to just start you off with the kind of logic you'll need

Sciborg

I'll try and have it sorta-ish attempted when you come back :p

bobble

did you find the cell-connections?

Sciborg

reasoning with Ls is really hard

bobble

01:51

okay, so there are 4 ways it can go: left-up, left-down, right-up, right-down

can you rule out any of them?

Sciborg

??

bobble

the 5 that I circled

you put a border below it

Sciborg

oh, oh

um

well now that i put the border, it can't go down

so that rules out left-down and right-down

bobble

so left-up and right-up both mean...

Sciborg

i can draw up borders?

bobble

01:53

yes!

Sciborg

yay!

so now, the 5 next to it

i just blocked off the left side, so it's gotta go either down, right or up

bobble

remember the 4 ways - a lot of logic here revolves around ruling out two of them

Sciborg

this 5 can go either left-up or left-down, i think?

if i understood that correctly

bobble

left? isn't there a border to its left?

Sciborg

*right-up or right-down

bobble

01:56

keep going in this way, I have to leave now

Sciborg

so i can draw right borders

bobble

I'll ping you when I'm back

Sciborg

okay :)

with the continuation of that logic on the other fives, i'm now here, posting so i don't forget:

i will now vibe for a bit

bobble

02:57

@Sciborg? It is... Puzzle Time. dramatic music

Sciborg

dun dun duuuuuun

bobble

Okay, let's start with a fact: a 5 must be part of a 5-block L

can you apply this to complete any Ls?

Sciborg

yes!

bobble

fly, baby bird, fly

Sciborg

that one?

bobble

02:59

there's another that you can do now

Sciborg

yup, i see it

bobble

and again?

Sciborg

yes, how do i delete a line? i placed a wrong line

bobble

draw over it again, as if you were placing it

Sciborg

bobble

03:02

can you apply the "ruling out one of the four orientations" logic to any of these 5s?

Sciborg

that is SUCH a fun deduction

hmm

ah, i see it

right?

bobble

hooray!

Sciborg

look, i can do sashiganes!!!! :D

bobble

do you want to look for the next deduction yourself, or do you want a nudge?

Sciborg

i'm gonna be a Big Bird and find it myself

hang on

hmm

i have to fill all the spaces, so that 4 in the upper left strikes me, because it's only gonna be 4

so i have to fill all the rest of that upper left space somehow

bobble

03:05

remember, you can have Ls without any symbols

Sciborg

ohhh, right. never mind

hm

i feel like the 4s are the next Important Thing, though

bobble

teensy nudge: you can make the next deduction using only the logic you've learned so far

Sciborg

arrgh

don't tell me what it is, i can do this

there has to be something super obvious i'm overlooking

bobble

look carefully at each symbol you haven't used yet

Sciborg

i don't get it, there are like tons of ways i could use the unused symbols

there's no obvious thing where Problems happen

everything seems doable

bobble

03:11

use four-orientations logic

Sciborg

okay, the bottom left circle can be either left-up or right-up. so i can put a border

but i don't know how big it is because it's not numbered

bobble

that's a deduction, but there's another important one with four-orientations logic

Sciborg

so then with that border, the two arrows near that cannot connect into the same shape, because there would be empty space.

so each of those arrows is its own shape.

bobble

why? can't you have a no-symbol L?

Sciborg

words are hard, aghhh. no. it can't fit

because i have to use the arrows

this doesn't help me at all

never mind

bobble

03:16

do you want another poke?

Sciborg

baby bird has lost faith in themself, yes

bobble

bottom-right open circle - can you rule out any orientations?

Sciborg

left-top i guess, obviously, but it could be a 3-shape so i can't even rule that out

wait, no, because it's a joint, so i can rule that out

it has to be right-bottom

bobble

yes!

merrybot

@Sciborg smart baby bird :)

Sciborg

03:20

and that means the left open circle is right-up

because it has to be now

bobble

yes!

Sciborg

and that means the 5 is... hahehehe

frantically drawing lines

this

right?

bobble

explain why the 5 has to be like that? also why does bottom-left open circle have to extend 2 up?

Sciborg

oh, i guess it doesn't have to extend 2 up, necessarily. but if the bottom right open circle is right-bottom then it closes the 5-shape and that means i can complete the 5 squares

since the whole 1-width thing

bobble

why can't the 5 be 3 to the right and 1 down?

Sciborg

03:24

....shit

okay, i'll go back to here

bobble

now, we can work on the left-bottom area or the right-bottom area. do you have a preference?

Sciborg

well, in the left-bottom area there's the bottom arrow, and the space to the left must also be a 90 degree shape

i don't know exactly how that helps

bobble

can you place borders?

Sciborg

i guess the hypothetical left-most shape has to be right-bottom, but i don't know how big it is

bobble

also my dad just put on Mando, and this episode is titled "The Tragedy", so I may take some time to yell/cry at the TV

1 min ago, by bobble

can you place borders?

Sciborg

03:28

oh wait did the new Mando come out??

bobble

yep!

Sciborg

craaaaap, partner has probably been texting me all night

we may need to take a break

bobble

there's a warning about flashing lights at the start

sure, you can stop for a bit

Sciborg

okay we're good, we're gonna watch it later tonight, i still have time

i know the arrows are important to the deduction somehow

bobble

it might be helpful to put cell-connecting lines

... birdy?

Sciborg

03:35

confused chirping

bobble

I'm making a picture to explain something

can any of R9C1-3 be connected to each other?

Sciborg

ohhhhhh

i get what you meant by connecting lines now, that helps

no, they can't be connected

bobble

this is a new sort of logic: you can't make any shape that can't become an L

Sciborg

arrgh

okay

so the one to the right of the arrow has to become an L

bobble

MAY IS IN MANDO

Sciborg

03:41

the actress??

bobble

I'm about 95% sure that's her

Sciborg

i can't google it because i don't want spoilers

but yay!!

bobble

anyways, keep making deductions!

Sciborg

the shape to the right of the arrow must be right-top, right?

because if it was left-top, it would block the others

bobble

do you mean right-down? we're taking from the joint

Sciborg

03:42

sorry, yes, right-down.

wait, right? am i mixing up left and right?

bobble

just make the picture, picture better than words

Sciborg

IT LOOKS LIKE AN UPSIDE-DOWN L, that's what i'm trying to say in bad words.

right?

bobble

yes

Sciborg

okay, so that means it can either connect to the top arrow and make a 4-height, or it can slot to cut off the open circle-L and make a 3-height.

but either way i can draw a border

that border

which means that since the bottom arrow has to make an L, my options for that arrow are limited

bobble

also the bit to its left has to also be L

Sciborg

03:47

right! so i have to fit two Ls there

which means i can draw more borders

bobble

borders good

Sciborg

and THAT tells me something super interesting

because now i know that the top arrow must connect with the bottom arrow, otherwise Problems happen

which means i can complete some Ls

bobble

do you like this area's logic?

Sciborg

very much yes

so now i have this

bobble

each of the top-right, top-left, bottom-right, and bottom-left feature different kinds of logic - it's an introduction puzzle, why not show off a bunch of deductions

Sciborg

03:50

now i know the bottom-left L needs to be completed somewhere, so i have to keep that in mind, and it can be as big as it needs to be

so now i can go to the bottom right

bobble

do you want a nudge for this area's logic, or are you a Big Bird?

Sciborg

orientation logic with the 4 - it can't face bottom

bobble

yes!

Sciborg

because otherwise it wouldn't be able to fill 4 spaces

so it must go top, meaning i can draw borders

and since i know i have that open-facing open circle joint thingy that needs to be closed, the 4 must go 2 up

at least

so i can draw more borders

bobble

4 mins ago, by bobble

borders good

Sciborg

03:52

so now we're here

and i can also see empty space below the open circle which needs to be an L

in order for that to be an L, it either has to loop all around the 4, or it has to be between the open circle and the 4 going up

but now i can definitively close the 5 shape because there's no way to squish an L in there

bobble

but IS THERE?

Sciborg

no?

is there?

ugh, okay, i'll leave it open for now

bobble

the intended next deduction is not finishing the 5

Sciborg

hm

man, i was on a roll for a while there

where to go now

well.... hang on, now i can look at the top left 4

same orientation logic - it can't face up, because not enough squares to fill 4

so it must face bottom, so i can draw borders

bobble

the nature of how I divided the puzzle into quadrants means you can jump around a bit

Sciborg

03:58

and now this is funny, because obviously it can't be all 3 of those squares, so i can close it at 2

another border

WHICH gives me a place to potentially end that bottom left L that isn't ended yet

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