[grid-deduction] Puzzle Solving

bobble

22:39

so, can you justify the L-mino?

Sciborg

Okay, so the challenge in the bottom right corner is to place something that fulfills the rules of the 1 and 2 blocks - the ? block is important because it blocks you off from the obvious thing you would try

the O can't be placed there because it breaks the 1 block rule

but you can place the L so that it fills 2 of the 2-block and 1 of the 1-block

which makes the ? block 2

bobble

how about T?

Sciborg

...oh, shit

hnnngh

bobble

or for that matter, S?

Sciborg

yeah, never mind, i'm dumb

but at least i know there are squares that can't be tetro, which i guess is good

bobble

22:43

you've got part of the way there - there's only enough room for one tetro, and you need to figure out which one fits

Sciborg

but L, T and S could fit??

bobble

you have to consider both the 2 and the 1 clues together

and throw in connectivity logic

Sciborg

but L and T could both fit on the bottom, i don't know which one it is

no, wait, the T breaks the 2 rule

bobble

try placing both. does either break the clues?

ahah!

Sciborg

then it's L

bobble

22:46

yep!

Sciborg

so i wasn't dumb i guess

bobble

you weren't, just hadn't fully justified it yet

it's a very neat deduction if I do say so myself :D

Sciborg

i like "what's the only thing that can fit" logic, but it makes me question myself constantly :p

bobble

okay, so what does your board look like now?

Sciborg

bobble

22:49

now, can you see anywhere else to work at?

this puzzle was designed with two different entrance points, both of which are required for the Big Break In

you've gotten one of them, time to find the other

Sciborg

top left?

bobble

try whatever you can find, see how far you get

> Mines must be grouped into tetromino shapes.
Two of each tetromino is used. Rotation and reflection are allowed.
Tetrominoes may not touch orthogonally (on a side). They may touch diagonally.

the tetromino rules, for reference

Sciborg

i'm worried , i don't see how this is going to work? there's too many numbers and not enough tetros

bobble

trust me, it all works out in the end

Sciborg

arrrgh

bobble

22:57

do you want another nudge?

Sciborg

yes

bobble

consider the 6 with a 3 next to it, and the last tetromino rule

... see it yet?

Sciborg

this can't be right

i ran out of tetros

bobble

2 of each type!

2

Sciborg

...oops

i think this is still right, though

yeah. this is still right

okay, so i got here:

bobble

23:07

that is right

not sure how you got there, but it's right

Sciborg

with the 6, those dark gray squares were the only way you could fill 6 squares and not have them touch, right?

was that the intent?

bobble

yes

Sciborg

okay, so then i knew those had to be either Ts or Ss, right?

bobble

yes

Sciborg

and then i realized that with the top left 2, the cube was the only way to fill that and also obey the rules of the 3s next to it

so i put the cube there

right?

bobble

23:11

yeah, that works

Sciborg

so then i had the O there, and i said okay, now the 3 next to the 6 has to be happy

the only way for the 3 to be happy was if given those dark gray squares, one was an S and one was a T, but both can't be S and both can't be T

does that track?

bobble

i think but my brain isn't braining very well right now

Sciborg

from there i filled in that grey square because the cube can't touch, and then i knew the T had to be the top one and the S had to be the left one. so i filled those in. and that's where i currently am.

i hope that made sense and wasn't insane

bobble

well, you at least didn't go wrong anywhere

Sciborg

in a different way: the 3 next to the 2 was also key because it told me: a) if that bottom piece is an S, it can't poke out left, so it must poke down and b) if that bottom piece is a T, it can't make sense with the 5

therefore it's a down-poking S

i'm guessing this was not the intended way to find those pieces but i hope it's still valid logic?

bobble

23:17

there's supposed to be logic with the middle and right

Sciborg

oh

i can go back to where i put the L and try to do middle logic instead

bobble

your stuff also seems fine, you could read Deus's answer to see the intended path

Sciborg

no, i don't want to do your puzzle the wrong way, i'm gonna try and figure out what you intended

i don't want to have it again where i did all these weird leaps of logic and did it the wrong way, i want to do it your way

bobble

there are no wrong ways to solve puzzles (except logic-by-uniqueness and deep brute-force)

Sciborg

but my way always has logic leaps and dumb stuff in it

you and bubbler can do it through pure logic, i want to learn that way :p

bobble

23:22

it's how baby birds solve puzzling, by jumping around

Sciborg

baby bird wants to be a good logical bird

did i do the 6 thing wrong too?

bobble

6 thing was mostly right, you identified that there can't be a run of 5

Sciborg

:(

bobble

logic goes down diagonally from 6->3->2&4 above it

bobble

23:41

... any updates, birdy?

Sciborg

birdy got too anxious and is taking a minecraft break

bobble

poor birdy

Sciborg

okay, birdy is calm, birdy will do the 6 thing right this time

is the problem that i filled too many squares?

bobble

yeah, you filled 2 more squares than intended

Sciborg

is it just those four vertical ones?

bobble

23:49

picture?

Sciborg

bobble

no, it's the runs off the 3

so not R4C3, and yes R5C4

or, try this logic: if you make _ square non-mine, then the rest must be mine. would that cause problems?

Sciborg

i'm still trying to count rows and columns, hang on

so not the one next to the 3?

bobble

next to the 3 must be non-mine

did you try the proffered logic?

Sciborg

what problems are caused by the rest being mine?

bobble

23:53

can you have 5 mines connected?

Sciborg

oh, wrong thingy. yes, now i get it

so that has to be mine

matt

@Sciborg minecraft breaks are Good Things

i built a lava bath right next to a very tall staircase

Sciborg

when i get too frustrated or feel dumb on puzzles i take minecraft breaks :p

matt

hm

bobble

i make puzzles because then i can put as many clues as i like

Sciborg

23:56

so the one sitting on the 6 and 3 has to be mine, so i've got that one

matt

speaking of making puzzles, statyu park?
(once you're done with this, of course, mick)

Sciborg

and that means the one on top must also be mine right?

bobble

either give RC notation or picture

Sciborg

it's fine, i'm probably wrong

bobble

you are smart baby bird

matt

23:58

^

Sciborg

smart baby bird feels very non-smart right now

matt

that is ok

also, i'll (finally) post doggo picture in TSL

Transcript for

[grid-deduction] Puzzle Solving