The Upper Room

caseyr547

20:00

i dont really learn anything answering questions

Anonymous

@JonEricson Some say that the only way you pass Chemistry is to do the homework.

caseyr547

i just draw from what i've already learned

if i dont already know the answer i dont attempt

Anonymous

Got any credible sources?

wax eagle

@caseyr547 that's my approach typically as well.

Jon Ericson

@caseyr547 You have to understand that this site values researched answers over anything else. Part of the reason many of us work in technical fields.

wax eagle

20:01

I'm not real prolific on the main site, and I don't have a lot of rep for it.

but when I do answer, I'm gonna go find sources that support my answer,

Jon Ericson

@Anonymous I read "Christianity" the first time. It's true there too. ;-)

wax eagle

even if it's just wikipedia (though I try to have at least one better source)

Anonymous

@waxeagle Hmmm... isn't that confirmation bias? (Seek and ye shall find.)

caseyr547

the Bible and strongs are the main sources i use

Jon Ericson

@waxeagle The most valuable part of Wikipedia is the bibliography section.

wax eagle

20:03

@Anonymous it's I know the answer, but don't take my word for it.

Jon Ericson

@caseyr547 That's great. I use the Bible quite a bit myself.

Anonymous

@caseyr547 The Bible is a complex document. To understand the Bible, one may want to seek a critical approach.

caseyr547

not really @Anonymous

wax eagle

@Anonymous commentaries are great for this and several are freely available

caseyr547

it was written for the mentally weak

those outcast by the world

wax eagle

20:05

@caseyr547 um we have a whole site devoted to understanding it.

Jon Ericson

@caseyr547 Well, the Bible is really quite various. ;-)

@waxeagle You don't say. ;-)

wax eagle

@JonEricson ancient texts are ancient yo :)

Anonymous

I would prefer that hermeneutics is studied by biblical scholars in universities and colleges.

And not the fundamentalist type of college.

caseyr547

@waxeagle most of the texts of the new testament were written in common language of the day

wax eagle

ok, pool time. see y'all later...

@caseyr547 key word the day

caseyr547

20:07

i think the peters were written in a higher form of greek

Anonymous

@caseyr547 Classical Greek?

caseyr547

let me google @Anonymous

Jon Ericson

@Anonymous FYI: BH has some very strong (albeit young) scholars contributing every day. I am constantly impressed by the quality of their answers.

@caseyr547 Yep koine means "common":

Koine Greek

Koine (from "common", also known as Alexandrian dialect, common Attic or Hellenistic Greek) was the common supra-regional form of Greek spoken and written during hellenistic and Roman antiquity. It developed through the spread of Greek following the conquests of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC, and served as the common lingua franca of much of the Mediterranean region and the Middle East during the following centuries. Based mainly on Attic and related Ionic speech forms, with various admixtures brought about through dialect levelling with other varieties, Koiné Greek display...

caseyr547

yes

Anonymous

@JonEricson How did you embed that Wikipedia link?

caseyr547

20:10

Stylistic Problems. This is often the straw that breaks the camel’s back for those wrestling with the authenticity issue. First and foremost, the stylistic differences between 1 Peter and 2 Peter are so great (1 Peter being relatively good Greek, 2 Peter being relatively poor Greek) that to

suppose that one man penned both letters—and both within perhaps a few months’ time and to the same audience (as 3:1 suggests)—stretches credibility to the breaking point. Further, the Greek of 2 Peter is stilted and, with its high proportion of hapax legomena8 it gives the impression of having been learned from books

rather than from life.9 This first consideration argues against the same author for both 1 and 2 Peter; this second consideration argues specifically against Petrine authorship for 2 Peter.

Jon Ericson

@Anonymous Copy and paste. ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koine_Greek

caseyr547

thats what i reffered to

Jon Ericson

@caseyr547 This would be a good start to a self-answered question on BH.SE. Just mind the formatting and be prepared to bring in the evidence!

caseyr547

no i've had enough down votes today

Anonymous

@JonEricson That sounds like original research. Hmmm...

Jon Ericson

20:12

@caseyr547 Have you seen the second answer I wrote to your Area 51 proposal?

@Anonymous Original research is allowed on BH.SE. Original opinion is not.

caseyr547

@JonEricson yeah i read it

it sounded kind

thank you

Jon Ericson

@caseyr547 I feel for you. I know what it's like to have a passion stifled.

Anonymous

@JonEricson I think all research should be peer reviewed like in academia.

Jon Ericson

But I think that you need to take a deep breath and re-evaluate things.

Anonymous

It's easy to get crazy ideas otherwise.

Jon Ericson

20:16

@Anonymous On SE, we have peer review. As I said, many of our contributors have academic backgrounds in some sort of Biblical studies.

Anonymous

One big mistake from my experience is reading the Bible out of context.

caseyr547

yeah well you've noticed i dont randomly take rebuke espcially from people i dont know or who make questionable decisions

if you say you dont listen to caleb and waxegel unless you are compelled to

that would be correct

and i also completely ignore david st whatwever

Jon Ericson

@Anonymous Tell me about it:

-6

A: Why does God say he only revealed his name, Yahweh, to Moses?

The reason is that there were (at least) two independent narratives for Genesis and Exodus that are combined to make the modern text. The Elohist narrative does not use Yahweh until Exodus 6:2, while the Jahwist narrative uses Yahweh throughout. The two narratives are clearly distinguished, and ...

@caseyr547 That is a huge mistake.

@caseyr547 Ditto.

caseyr547

just becuase someone is popular or even orthodoxically correct doesn't mean their character is correct

Jon Ericson

@JonEricson Better example. ^^

Anonymous

20:19

Who is 10015558?

Jon Ericson

@Anonymous My own post. Hmmm... Was that bug/unplanned feature fixed?

Or did I screw it up.

@caseyr547 I submit that you have unfairly judged @waxeagle and @Caleb.

caseyr547

in this case i am absolutly certain i have not passed judgment over them

Anonymous

What can you do with a degree in Biblical studies or Theology? I have read that a degree in Religious studies is not going fare well in today's economy.

Jon Ericson

@Anonymous Some of them become programmers. ;-)

caseyr547

how they treat people absolutly is not consent with how believers should treat nonbelievers

or even fellow believers

Jon Ericson

20:23

@caseyr547 I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.

Anonymous

@JonEricson Computer programming and religion do not seem to go well together, unless someone makes a software that is helpful for religion in some way.

Jon Ericson

@Anonymous You'd be surprised. But that's a topic for another time.

@caseyr547 Well, they (and I too) have made mistakes.

caseyr547

no they systematicly make mistakes

they say welcome to christianity.se your question is now closed

then they leave

Anonymous

I think I am going to be the proofreader then, changing first person to third person.

caseyr547

they dont even apologize that the person misunderstood

and when i apologize for the misunderstanding i'm chatised

chastised

i understand the main se sight treating people like dirt and calling people dirt

Jon Ericson

20:27

@caseyr547 Those are Stack Exchange values. You may be right that they can't be reconciled with Christian values.

caseyr547

you could apologize

you could help the person fix thier question actively

Jon Ericson

@caseyr547 Yes. That's something that we need more people to do.

caseyr547

well i am specificly forbidden from doing it

and the people who could are too mean to actually do any good

heres my post in meta good luck downvote

vote to close

the se isnt inherintly antichristian

but the way we implement here is

Anonymous

How old is caseyr547?

So many typos.

Jon Ericson

@caseyr547 I don't think you really understand the purpose of downvotes and closures.

caseyr547

20:35

@Anonymous old enough to have dyslexia? compassion much?

Jon Ericson

@Anonymous Like you, he's declined to say.

Anonymous

@caseyr547 People with dyslexia may be good at speaking than at writing.

caseyr547

#thingwhichicopewith

Jon Ericson

@Anonymous There's no need for proper spelling and what not on chat.

Anonymous

@JonEricson But they surely make it easier on the reader.

Reading medieval manuscripts in Latin is torture.

So many abbreviations.

Jon Ericson

20:39

@Anonymous Or any other ancient manuscript. Punctuation is handy.

Anonymous

I think caseyr547 is new to the online experience.

Jon Ericson

@Anonymous (He's still here and can hear us. In any case, no need to be rude.)

@caseyr547 That must be an extra handicap. I know there are at least two users who have hearing disabilities. That seems more workable on this site. I admire your persistence.

Anonymous

I appreciate that caseyr547 puts a lot of effort in writing. Effort is a good thing.

Jon Ericson

Well, the twins are making noise and I have duties to attend to. Play nice!

caseyr547

thanks @JonEricson

Anonymous

20:46

caseyr547: so, how did you get interested in the Bible and Christianity?

caseyr547

i've always been

i met Jesus when i was little

4 or 5

Anonymous

Oh.

caseyr547

when did you meet Jesus

Anonymous

What do you mean by "meeting Jesus"? Can you explain?

caseyr547

I made Him my King and Friend chose to follow Him dedicated my life to his service whatever phrase you want to choose

Anonymous

20:48

Oh. Jesus became your lord and savior.

caseyr547

yeah

when did you meet Jesus

Anonymous

Have you ever sung "Jesus love me"?

caseyr547

yep

Anonymous

I think it's a fairly popular and old Christian children's song.

From what you said, it seems that your family does not believe in infant baptism.

caseyr547

yeah most protestants do not

Anonymous

20:54

In some Christian traditions, the infant is baptized shortly after birth, and the parents are told to raise the child Christian.

I believe infant baptism occurs in Lutheran, Methodist, Anglican, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Presbyterian, United Church of Christ churches.

Baptists are known for Believer's Baptism. Are you a baptist?

caseyr547

no i'm not baptist but i have been baptised

Anonymous

In which denomination?

Evangelical? Pentecostal? Fundamentalist?

Charismatic?

caseyr547

my classification goes like this

Evangelical, Pentecostal, Charismatic, Word of Faith

Anonymous

So, you are saying that you are Evangelical, Pentecostal, Charismatic and Word of Faith?

caseyr547

some groups are subsets of others

so yes if you asked any of those groups to stand up

i would stand up

Anonymous

21:04

So, have you done any anointing of the sick?

TRiG

@waxeagle Actually I like the way scoping is done here (but I'm odd).

Anyway, blasphemy is fun. (Actually, my thoughts about blasphemy are complicated. Must write something about it one day.)

caseyr547

@Anonymous i've laid hands on the sick yes

Anonymous

@TRiG You say that you are an atheist now, former Jehovah's Witness.

TRiG

@Anonymous Aye.

Anonymous

I think atheism by itself would constitute blasphemy.

@TRiG Do you think you still live in the kingdom of God though, even though you are an atheist?

TRiG

21:11

@Anonymous I do not understand that question as written.

Anonymous

In other words, do you still do what God tells you to do? Help people, serve others well, give to charity, and the like?

TRiG

@Anonymous Who is this God of whom you speak? ;)

Seriously, I do have ethical principles by which I fail to live (of course). But I don't associate them with anything divine.

Anonymous

The God of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

@TRiG Yep, it sounds like you are still living in the kingdom of God without recognizing God.

TRiG

They have not to think if something is a sin or not. I certainly don't worry about "sin", but I do put a fair bit of time (not enough, probably) into thinking about ethics. How does my lifestyle, the way I spend my time, the way I spend my money, the way I make my money affect the world as a whole? And how do my interpersonal reactions affect those around me? Should I boycott this company or that company which has engaged in unethical business practices? This stuff is complicated. (But I do get to think for myself, and to learn from others.) — TRiG Jul 28 '12 at 18:55

Anonymous

I come to the conclusion that no matter what faith people are, they usually express roughly the same thing.

Usually something central to human nature.

And that includes atheists.

TRiG

21:17

@Anonymous Well, yes and no. I think Christians and atheists express very different things on some subjects; perhaps similar on others.

Anonymous

@TRiG I meant to refer to the structure of the worldview.

Not really the exact beliefs.

TRiG

@Anonymous I actually think that can be quite different too. (The most notable difference is probably in sexual ethics, but that's not due to a difference of opinion about sex: it's due to completely incompatible fundamentals which merely has its most obvious and most easily discussed result in sexual ethics. A person could talk about Christian sexual ethics for a very very long time before the phrase informed consent was mentioned, for example.)

Anonymous

@TRiG Huh?

Informed consent?

From a Roman Catholic point-of-view on marriage, there is a long list of informed consent. I'm not sure what you are trying to point out here.

TRiG

@Anonymous I think Conservative Christian sexual ethics and secular humanist sexual ethics are very very different. Secular humanist sexual ethics start, finish, and centre on the principle of informed consent. Conservative Christian sexual ethics ... don't. And I don't think this is because of a different view of sex, per se. I think it's because of very very different starting points in the approach to ethical reasoning.

So I think you're basically wrong to say that the worldviews are fundamentally the same. They actually aren't.

And I'm not saying that informed consent is completely alien to Christian sexual ethics (even to Conservative Christian sexual ethics), but it certainly isn't centred the same way as it is in most secular humanist systems of sexual ethics.

Anonymous

@TRiG The Roman Catholic church does stress a lot on consent. Otherwise, the marriage would be considered invalid.

Caleb

21:31

@JonEricson Next time use : as your delimiter rather than @ and you'll be good to go.

TRiG

@fredsbend Aye, there is. And that was, largely, the point I was making.

Anonymous

@TRiG I think you are conflating atheism and secular humanism. Although the two does go well together, not all atheists are secular humanists, as secular humanism is more of a Western philosophy. A Chinese atheist may draw principles from Confucianism.

And Confucianism is much older than Christianity.

TRiG

@Anonymous Well, atheism, qua atheism, doesn't have a position on sexual ethics or any other kind of ethics, which is why I deliberately narrowed the discussion to be about the specific type of atheism with which I am familiar.

Anonymous

@TRiG Oh. I think that part is important, though. Without secular humanism, atheism seems to be incomplete.

Your type of atheism.

I would love to see a conversation between two atheists - one a secular humanist and the other a Confucian follower.

And they talk about sexual ethics - ha!

TRiG

@Anonymous Could be interesting, aye.

Anonymous

21:45

Secular humanism, rationalism, and naturalism seem to be completely incompatible with Christianity. Confucianism is quite compatible with whatever religion, as Confucius himself did practice Chinese folk religion.

Filial piety fits somewhat well with the biblical commandment of honoring your mother and father.

TRiG

@Anonymous And yes, atheism is incomplete. Atheism does not provide you with a moral code. This is not a problem. Atheism doesn't provide you with a bank balance either. It's not supposed to. You must look elsewhere for your moral code. And secular humanism seems to work fairly well, on the whole.

@Anonymous I must admit I'm not as familiar with Confucianism as I might be. I vaguely recall an Area 51 proposal which included Confucianism. I must look it up.

Anonymous

Area 51 proposal?

TRiG

@Anonymous Suggested SE site.

area51.stackexchange.com

Anonymous

Personally, I admit that I feel more comfortable with Confucian philosophy than secular humanism. I like the collectivist nature of it.

TRiG

@Anonymous Collectivism (in some forms) appeals to me too, I must say. Perhaps I should learn more about Confucius.

Anonymous

21:54

Wikipedia reports that Confucius had a lot of disciples/students -- more so than Jesus!

Of course, quantity isn't everything.

TRiG

22:09

@waxeagle Not actually wanting to get into this conversation right now, but Exodus talks about the grey issues and does Exodus' new message actually have an audience?

-5

Q: Orthodox of anti-Orthoprax?

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Orthopraxy is the application of orthodox beliefs rituals, customs, approved practices are all orthopraxic. 1Co 13:4-7 are the orthodox verse which describe the orthopraxic com...

@All. I think there's actually an interesting and useful question in here, but I'm too tired to unearth it now. (I've spent the entire day on trains and boats, and am sorely in need of a shower and a sleep.)

> When I feel the full weight of something egregiously immoral that I have done, the last thing I want to do is go wading amongst the very people whom I’ve damaged, and start telling them about all my new plans for championing their best interests. But maybe that’s just me.

wax eagle

@TRiG will read later cuz yeah I've got a baby in one arm and am about to go put pasta in hot water

TRiG

@waxeagle Enjoy. I'm just home from holidays and am housesitting (and cat-minding) for my parents. First thing to do when I got in was to light the fire. I think there's now enough hot water for a shower.

Anonymous

23:33

Cat-minding is babysitting cats.

TRiG

@Anonymous 'Tis aye. Feedin' 'em, anyway.

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