The Upper Room

a_hardin

12:00 AM

@Shog9 Yeah, I'll never click @waxeagle's links again

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Shog9

heh...

wax eagle

@a_hardin lol the "burn with fire asap" should have been a dead giveaway

a_hardin

i thought you wanted assap fired or something :P

i only got the 3rd worded and started flagging :P

didn't have time to recommend moving it to programmers.se

wax eagle

@a_hardin yeah flagging that wasn't a hard decision. I think that was my first "not welcome in this community" flag

George Edison

@Shog9 I didn't know chat supported strikethrough.

wax eagle

12:13 AM

@GeorgeEdison I believe its 3 -s on each side

~~test~~

George Edison

Cool. I never realized that.

El'endia Starman

12:40 AM

Huh, ~~interesting~~ neat!

Shog9

1:27 AM

I blame balpha

a_hardin

3:46 AM

@ElendiaStarman remember a long time ago last week when you asked "Can God make a rock He can't move?"

and i had never heard of it... well that night we watched What If... and the angel in the movie asked that question

El'endia Starman

5:18 AM

@a_hardin LOL. :P

Jonathon Byrd

am I missing something? why did our rep drop on the users page?

El'endia Starman

Because it switched to "week"?

Jonathon Byrd

5:36 AM

oh, haha

dunce

El'endia Starman

:P

Jonathon Byrd

I'm going crazy over here. I have a lamp stack setup for magento, but magento isn't saving the sessions, at all. It's driving me mad

BeatMe

10:42 AM

0

A: Can an atheist go to heaven?

No. To think an atheist can get into heaven via works is an upside down perspective. It's not "act right, etc." It's grace. It's not the love of self or the actions of a believer that deliver them from separation from their creator. It's the lack of selflessness and pride. The inability to let go...

can someone translate that to me please?

Caleb

11:27 AM

@BeatMe Ha ha just saw that myself. It does have quite a bit of spiritual jargon/mumbo jumbo are scrambled up with no clear argument defined from it.

I would interpret it to be building an argument based on the fact that Christians are defined by their submission to a new master (giving up on themselves and surrendering to the care of another). Atheism leaves people with the opposite stance. However it doesn't develop that very susinctly.

CiscoIPPhone

11:43 AM

I find it a bit offensive (although I'm not saying that means the answer is incorrect). It's saying atheists are selfish, proud and can't think.

Caleb

I think I've been feeding @Jonathon's troll. Must. Stop.

CiscoIPPhone

He has his own troll?

Caleb

@CiscoIPPhone Well except the part about not being able to think because that's unrelated ... the other two are fair enough to deduce from that but I would separate the personal issues from the belief framework. I know very humble and self-sacrificing atheists, but Atheism as a structure of beliefs is inherently prideful and selfish according to Christian definitions. It takes the creator of the universe off his thrown and sets the intelligence of man in its place. Does that make any sense?

@CiscoIPPhone Yes. It's a long story :)

BeatMe

oh wow

Caleb

11:59 AM

Based on the number of low quality answers this question is pulling in, I have some doubts about its' value on the site. Anybody?

Perhaps it should be protected?

CiscoIPPhone

12:13 PM

@Caleb I agree with your comment about atheism not being a denomination, that answer really shouldn't be there

Caleb

@CiscoIPPhone I'm not sure why Marc didn't catch that issue. Flag it?

Marc Gravell

12:37 PM

I protected the question due to two really bad answers appearing. The one I left is more subjective and I would rather somebody else made a "call" on it.

Simply: I am trying very hard to avoid any moderation activity (except obvious troll killing) on the site, for two reasons:

1: the community needs to get the hang of how to handle self-moderation, flagging, etc

2: since my views don't represent those of many site users it could cause ... "ripples" if I was seen to be forcing things one way or another

I did however, sow a seed for other site users by noting that it wasn't in the spirit/context of the question

(see, I'm not all bad :p)

BeatMe

;)

Caleb

12:56 PM

@MarcGravell Don't get me started on total depravity!

But thank you for the mod work.

And I don't think ill of you even if I've been rough on some of your comments. I hope you know that.

@MarcGravell I just flagged it but you don't have to make the call. I'm not too worried about that one. Votes will take care of it too I'm sure.

Marc Gravell

1:20 PM

@Caleb I'm a bit confused by the "total depravity" - did I miss that one? I was talking about the atheist answer

Caleb

@MarcGravell You tried to tell me you weren't "all bad". As far as Reformed theology is concerned that's pretty much outright heresy. But don't worry it's not personal, it's the state of all of humanity, not just you!

Also, we don't burn people at the stake, we throw drowning people ropes.

Caleb

1:58 PM

Can we get some VTC's on this before folks start throwing out stories?

Marc Gravell

3:20 PM

Closed

Caleb

@MarcGravell Thanks.

Personally I really wish answers to closed questions wouldn't show up across the SE network, but that's another discussion altogether.

El'endia Starman

5:27 PM

Anyone know what <a href="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42914000/jpg/_42914547_benedict_afp4‌16.jpg">this</a> is called?

Caleb

@ElendiaStarman 404 - Page not found

C. Ross

6:20 PM

1

A: Who created God?

Most mainline (most protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox) Christians believe that God has always existed, has no source, and no end, and that all things were created by Him. The fourth question of the Westminster Shorter Catechism is Q: What is God? A: God is a Spirit, infinite, eternal...

I have a nagging thought that says that Mormons don't believe God is eternal, or at least that they don't believe he was always God, but I can't find any reference to that.

Anyone know?

hah, found it

Mormon cosmology

Mormon cosmology is the description of the history, evolution, and destiny of the physical and metaphysical universe according to Mormonism, which includes the doctrines taught by leaders and theologians of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), Mormon fundamentalism, the Restoration Church of Jesus Christ and other Brighamite denominations within the Latter Day Saint movement. These views are not generally shared by adherents of other Latter Day Saint movement denominations such as the Community of Christ. Mormon cosmology draws from Biblical cosmology, but has ma...

Caleb

Excellent answer by the way.

C. Ross

7:57 PM

@Caleb thanks

KronoS

8:10 PM

@CRoss Being a mormon, I feel a need to clarify a few things.

C. Ross

@KronoS please do

KronoS

First we do believe that God is a being of flesh and bone

However, we don't believe that He "started out like us" as this is a common misconception. Truth is, we really don't know the particular origins of God.

C. Ross

@KronoS do you believe he is "eternal" the same way most protestants do?

ie: He has no beginning

KronoS

There's the common phrase (I believe it's Spencer Kimbal... will find the reference later) that states "As Gad is we may become, as we are God once was..." not sure on the exact quoting, but many people take that as he started out exactly like us

but rather what the intention of the statement was to say that he has a physical body that is perfect and we may become like that

@CRoss yes very much so... and there are different "theories" out there about how exactly, but nothing in the actual doctrine that is taught

if that makes sense :)

C. Ross

so perhaps a bit more ... agnostic on the subject?

KronoS

8:14 PM

what do you mean?

not completely familiar with the agnostic belief

C. Ross

oh, agnostic just means believing "we can't know"

KronoS

I wouldn't say that "we can't know" but more "we just don't know" the exact particulars

we still believe that he's eternal

C. Ross

fair enough, ok

KronoS

but we also believe that we're all eternal as well

C. Ross

@KronoS yeah, I noticed that in my reading

KronoS

8:17 PM

anyways just wanted to mention that you can talk to me with any questions.. and while I don't know everything.. I can point you in the right direction

C. Ross

@KronoS thanks :-)

Know of any sects that don't believe God is eternal?

KronoS

@CRoss not that I know of....

but I'm not super familiar with a lot of others TBH... just the basic beliefs

C. Ross

@KronoS yeah, it's hard enough to keep up with the doctrine of one denomination/sect.

KronoS

lol for sure!

C. Ross

so hard that we keep coming up with summarized versions.

Caleb

8:22 PM

@KronoS Eternal (as in had no beginning) or everlasting (as in will have no end)?

KronoS

@Caleb eternal as had no beginning

Caleb

@KronoS Ok thanks for the clarification because sometimes that distinction gets scrambled in such converstions.

In light of that how do you exegete Genesis 1:27 and 5:1-2?

KronoS

@Caleb meaning that God created man in His own image? We believe in that as well

@Caleb @CRoss I've gotta head out for a few, but feel free to 'ping' me with any more questions you may have.

Caleb

@KronoS Yet something that is created has a beginning. You can't have your cake and eat it too, you must be defining either "created" or "eternal" differently than I in order to believe both of those can be true.

El'endia Starman

9:31 PM

I'm specifically talking about that staff in his hand.

Caleb

No idea, sorry. There are enough Catholic folks around that somebody ought to know tho.

El'endia Starman

10:29 PM

Hmm. Time to post a question! :P

a_hardin

11:01 PM

@ElendiaStarman is this it? giovannipaolomagno.blogspot.com/2010/03/sheperds-staff.html

ah, you did have a question for it

aceinthehole

@gmoothart for what it is worth, i accepted some answers :-)

Caleb

Can we get a couple more VTC's on this before more off-target answers roll in? I don't think it's legitimately answerable as it stands but that doesn't stop people from trying until it's closed.

CiscoIPPhone

I'm curious as to what sin it could be. What sin is guaranteed to get you in hell?

Caleb

@CiscoIPPhone That's part of the fallacy of the question. Even if there was (say blaspheming the Holy Spirit or as some might say suicide) those kinds of things aren't the kind of thing you can do in somebody elses place to keep them from doing.

The question is either really really confused about life the universe and everything, or it's debate fodder. Everybody that tries to answer is going to have to set their own stage for what they think the question should have been.

El'endia Starman

11:21 PM

@Caleb I was the second to VTC.

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