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05:41
Tutor Bobble is present
Tutor Bobble is going to google Taylor Series real quick
Tutor Bobble remembers now
Let's see if you can beat my tutor
So I know that
f(x)-T(x)=0.01
I'm not sure how to get the correct answer without guessing
did you go over the Lagrange error bound?
Nope, nope
Here's the most we learned about Taylor series
Literally just the infinite equations for sine, cos, and natural logarithm
Very, very basic
05:45
so, this is the error bound
What the
Explain?
That's the first thing I thought of for Taylor series error - I think there might be another thing? This is what we used the most.
Well, can you explain this formula then?
So, n = degree of polynomial. What's the degree of this polynomial?
(the one in the problem)
5
Wait of the natural log or the series?
05:47
oops, found the more useful formula
n still means the same thing
and degree is of the T(x) given, so here it would be 5
Okay
What is x?
And also a?
well, you have to maximize all of these parts
Geez I feel like this is far too advanced for what I'm learning
so let's take them one by one
a is where the T(x) is centered, so here is 0
if the xs were all (x - 1)s, then a would be 1
Why is it zero for the T(x)?
05:50
your T(x) has an "x" term
if there was an a, it would be "(x - a)"
can you see why it's called a center?
Out of curiosity, what if it started with "1"
Like 1-x^2/2!+x^4/4! etc
a constant term wouldn't change the centering
05:51
you can see that it's "x^2", not "(x - 1)^2"
It would have to be (x+1)-x^2/2! etc
Ohh, I see
Hold on, let me jot this down
tell me once you're back
also Bobble Tutor will have to leave soon-ish
anyways, so you want to maximize |x - a|, where a is the a you just found, and x is any value that's in the interval given
And how do we find that?
05:54
so you pick an x value in [0, a] to maximize |x - 0|
I can pick any value?
yep, any value
Okay, for the sake of cleanliness, I'll go with 10
no, in the interval
so here you would pick a
because that would give |a|, the maximum you can get by picking from the interval
But a is zero, no?
05:55
the a in the problem is different than the variable a
yes, it's stupid they picked "a" as a given variable
So pick a number and tells me why it fits. I'm slightly confused.
if it makes you feel better, we can substitute "b"
On interval [0, b], choosing b maximizes |x - a| = |x - 0| = |x|
and I'm just going to give everything else real quick, since I have to leave like now
now you look at the next term in the series, the power-6 term
05:57
and you choose a value of x (still from [0, b]) that maximizes that term
then you plug that value in for M, and you multiply it by |b|^(n+1) - since you replaced |x - a| with |b|
and then you divide by (n + 1)!, where n = 5
05:59
and you set R_n = 0.01, since that's the error
and then I think you would solve for b (which is the a from the problem, not the a of the variable you introduced)
I'm sorry I can't help more
see for some examples/explanation, or just google "Lagrange error bound"
I think I'm just going to go to sleep. If this kind of question comes up on my test tomorrow, it'll be multiple choice
So worst case scenario, I can just plug all the numbers in
06:02
If it's multiple choice, I guess you can get away with an even easier method
T(x) approximates f(x) up to x^5 terms, so the error between T(x) and f(x) can be approximated as the next term in the Taylor series
which is x^6 / (5×10×15×20×25)
so the bound will be close to the 6th root of 0.01×5×10×15×20×25 which is like 3.94
(I'm assuming you can use a scientific calculator)
 
6 hours later…
11:43
In this case, the Lagrance bound is actually off by something like a factor of 2, and certainly isn't good enough to get the answer required to 3 decimal places. So I think they just want you to evaluate the error directly.
So for any given x you can find that just by computing x e^(0.2x) and x + x^2/5 + etc. and taking the difference.
The worst error is almost certainly going to be at the end of the range where the function is largest, increasing fastest, etc. (The worst error in a truncated Taylor series is almost always at the end of the range.)
For a multiple-choice question, you can just calculate the error at each of the x values they give and see if one of them produces an error very close to 0.01.
Oh, in this particular case you don't need to rely on any heuristic "worst error is usually at largest |x-a|" stuff, because the error is just the rest of the Taylor series for x e^(x/5), all of whose coeffs will be positive, so obviously larger x will make it larger. So the biggest error is absolutely definitely at the biggest x.
So, anyway, for a not-multiple-choice question: guess a value of x, see what the error is; if the error's too large, try a substantially smaller value of x, if it's too small, try a substantially larger value of x, repeat until you've got one x where the error is too big and one where it's too small.
Then do a binary search: pick a value somewhere near the middle of the range (literal binary search always uses exactly the middle, but you don't have to do that; pick a value with fewer digits so the calculations are easier, pick a value nearer one end if it seems like the error is nearer the target at that end than at the other end, etc.) and evaluate the error, and now pairing that with one of the two values you had before gives you a new smaller interval where the error is [... continues]
... too small at one end and too big at the other.
So e.g. maybe you start with x=1 and find the error is about 2.8x10^-6. Much too small, try a larger x.
x=2: error is about 0.00018, still too small but getting nearer the mark. Maybe don't double it this time; try x=3.
x=3: error is about 0.002. Damn, should have gone higher after all. x=4 next?
x=4: error is about 0.013. Aha, so somewhere between 3 and 4, probably quite close to 4 because 0.013 isn't much bigger than 0.01. So try somewhere in between, maybe nearer to 4. Let's try 3.8 and see what we get.
x=3.8: error is about 0.0092. Nice. So we're looking for a value between 3.8 and 4, probably nearer 3.8 because 0.0092 is nearer 0.01 than 0.013 is. Literal bisection would try 3.9 next but let's try 3.85 instead.
x=3.85: error is about 0.00993. Getting close. Now we're looking for a value between 3.85 and 4, probably much nearer 3.85. Let's try bumping it up to 3.86 and see what we get.
x=3.86: error is about 0.01009. Also close but on the other side, so now we need a value of x between 3.85 and 3.86. Let's try 3.855.
x=3.85: error is about 0.010014. Still too large; need something between 3.85 and 3.855. The error at 3.855 is quite a bit nearer the mark than the error at 3.850, so let's try something closeish to that. Maybe 3.853?
x=3.853: error is about 0.00998. So we need x between 3.853 and 3.854. Might as well try the midpoint at 3.854.
x=3.854: error is about 0.009998. Too small but very close. So for an error of 0.01 we need something between 3.854 and 3.855, probably somewhat nearer 3.854. If we want to be sure of getting the right value rounded to 3dp, we need to know which side of 3.8545 the correct value is on. I bet it's the low side, but let's check.
x=3.8545: error is about 0.010006. Too large. So the place where we cross 0.01 is between 3.8540 and 3.8545, so to 3dp it must be 3.854. Done.
That's pretty laborious when you write everything out, but you can do it in a minute or two if you aren't so verbose :-).
12:38
[You can ignore the following, but just in case you're interested:] In this case, Bubbler's cruder method gives a better estimate of the error than Lagrange's bound. That's not because Bubbler is a better mathematician than Lagrange :-), it's because of where the Lagrance bound comes from.
There is an exact formula for the error in the truncated Taylor series. It's the integral, from the "centre point" to the place where you want to know the error, of (n+1'th derivative of f) times x^n/(n+1)!. If you just pretend that that n+1'th derivative is constant and as large as it ever gets over that integral, you get an upper bound and that's the Lagrange bound.
But in practice that n+1'th derivative is very much not constant. It's much bigger at the end of the range. So the upper bound you get by holding it constant is not a good approximation to the error; it's too pessimistic.
 
4 hours later…
17:10
@Bubbler Ohhh
This is so stupid
I spent so many hours just practicing
Math
And then I get a 60% on my next next because oh! I didn't have time to double-check and I forgot to subtract 180 to find an angle
What's the point of even studying? I get the same score whether I study or not
> I get the same score whether I study or not
seems to happen to me too sometimes
Happens to me ALL THE TIME
I'm already failing math as it is
And my parents have been all over me
that's never fun :(
17:35
Omg I'm so lucky
sin(71) and sin(109) are the same value
Ugh
I forgot about the area of a sector equation
I thought that it was
r^2pitheta
It's (r^2theta)/2
Which was why I knpet getting such weird numbers
I got another question wrong because I thought it asked for even functions
I was so sure it asked for even functions
But everybody I talked to was like "it asked for odd"
I missed like 4 at most
At least 2
I need to have missed only 3 or less to maintain my 70%
17:55
What happens if you dip below %70?
That's failing the class
My parents are incredibly upset I have even a C-
oof
can I help?
I don't know
I spent so many hours studying for this unit and I get a 70%-60%
Physics is currently propaganda for data science, so I'm available to rant at if you want.
What's the point of even studying? I fail regardless
And I can try to express this to my parents and they'd be like "well you could've studied earlier"
"Studied more"
"How do you expect to even get accepted into a college with a C- in your junior year"
"You should just drop out at this point"
IT'S ONE GRADE
18:05
Yeah, it's still very possible to get accepted with one bad grade
But can I get a scholarship?
(even better if you can somehow show improvement by, for example, taking the class again. but not sure if you can do that)
Well it's two semesters
Depends what scholarships you're talking about
So if I can improve a lot for second semester
Hold on I have to take a test for APUSH
I'll be back
18:20
I came here just to tell you that if you have one bad grade, it's one grade and it's no big deal at all. I faceplanted the hell out of AP Physics and a couple other classes in high school, but I still got a really cool scholarship and did fine in college. You'll be totally fine and don't let your parents scare you!
(hey mick!)
hello :)
Did you get financial aid from the government?
Eyy 40/45
Yes, I did
Probably could've got higehr on my APUSH test if I double-checked through :/
18:22
Was super annoying but yes
I don't think I could get financial aid
why not?
Government financial aid is tough because they have like 99 rules you need to follow, so one bad grade can screw that up unfortunately.
'borg! unfortunately I have to write data science propaganda right now
@bobble ???
18:23
My dad works as a doctor. We're not ridiculously rich by any means, but he makes above what I believe the government is willing to pay for
It sucks, yeah. Middle class families do not always get aid even if they really need it
Yup. And I'd say we're upper middle class
Basically, the government views my family as "You can easily pay for your kid if you wanted to"
:|
My family only squeaked into aid for me because at the time my dad had lost his job and was between careers, so he happened to fall into the income class the year I applied
But in a normal year, we probably wouldn't have qualified.
That sucks, but I guess a silver lining
18:25
It was our silver lining for the year :p
And I get that. There are people out there who really do need financial aid
Very very bright students from poor areas wouldn't be able to make it to college without it
But it just makes my scholarship chances lower
both my parents got nice merit-based scholarships, so I'm sorta expected to get one
Financial aid is just stupid and arbitrary sometimes and unfortunately that's outside your control. Try not to let yourself dwell on it or get bummed out, just apply for as much as you can!
send out like 100 applications for as many scholarships as you can, you're bound to hit something
My parents aren't going to pay for any of my college though
They're like "none of our parents helped"
that sucks :(
18:27
My parents are first-generation immigrants though. My mom moved when she was 2 and my dad at 10
Wait hold on, can't you get scholarships for disabilities?
usually those are for specific disabilities
but a few are broader
Rarely but they do exist
and there isn't anything for "tics", everyone wants to help people with Tourette's
I would qualify for Tourette's if I had a vocal tic, since the rest of my tics are severe enough
One of the more niche scholarships I applied to was specifically for people with Asperger's/ASD who were seeking STEM degrees, didn't get it but it was worth a shot :)
18:29
I mean, I don't think my arm counts for scholarships
It might help with admission though
stick it in an essay
(Also the fact that I was adopted- great stuff to write about)
The more life experiences you have, the more potential scholarship essay topics you have :p
I was adopted at 7 1/2 years old from Korea and didn't speak any English and now look at me! 96.5 in English. My highest academic class
"What are some obstacles you've faced in your life?" Well... glad you asked
That would make an amazing essay
18:31
I just need a scholarship
Have you thought about applying specifically to second-generation/first-generation immigrant scholarships? there are lots of great ones out there!
Oh, I guess I am technically first-generation immigrant
I always forget that
You could totally qualify! :D
Don't you have to be under a certain income?
Only for some scholarships
18:33
There are lots of different types - some are merit-based, some are financial-based, and some are just generally open to everyone
Oh wow, that's a lot
Of scholarships
"Cognitive, behavioral, and emotional disabilities"
Darn
That's a pretty wide umbrella of stuff, seems weird to require that for a scholarship
what counts as an "emotional" disability?
Lots of stuff qualifies as emotional disability under ADA - bipolar disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, etc.
it's a really wide category
Holy crap I have a 3.08 unweighted GPA
That's
Terrible
18:38
that's fine
Because I'm taking three music classes and I don't think those count toward GPA
B- average isn't too bad!
Don't mean to be racist in anyway, but I live in a pretty asian-heavy community. B- is like shooting yourself in the foot
ah, i see
That C really kills my GPA. I didn't even realize
18:40
Does your school offer any kind of retake/summer thing where you could potentially replace or lift that grade?
If I fail the class I can retake it over the summer
But failing is D, and that's just to get the credit
My teacher isn't allowing retakes at all bc of COVID
Can you retake it without failing it, or do you have to fail it?
I have to fail it
eesh, so you're kinda stuck
there's no option for summer classes or taking it at a community college somewhere?
I don't know
It's Pre-Calc
(well, Pre-calc H)
18:43
My high school allowed dual enrollment where you could take a class at my local community college for a better grade, maybe your school has a similar thing?
I don't think so
hm
there's got to be something you can do
Is this a problem mostly with tests, or with both tests and homework?
She only puts in tests
There's no grade for hw
ahh, so you didn't get a homework cushion at all? That's horrible
18:46
she's put in 20 points for participation and that's about it
No retakes
Nothing
I can't
Rephrase: are you understanding the homework?
if your grade is entirely tests, that's ... pretty crappy
The Calc classes at my school are infamous for having tests that are much, much harder than the homework, so people can feel decent on the homework and then bomb the tests
if my math classes had been entirely tests, i would absolutely have two Fs on my transcript as we speak
@bobble kids at your school on test day: [screams in pain]
18:47
the homework cushion is a necessary safety net for people who do well on homework but struggle with tests
it seems horrific not to have one
that is just mean
(meaner even than my spanish teacher's attendance system we've already covered)
Have you discussed this with anybody outside this teacher? i.e. talked to a dean/principal/whoever takes care of curriculum at your school?
I TA'ed a class that tried to give students a homework cushion - the answers were given, and we would spot-check a few problems to see if the student either got it right or corrected it. You would not believe the number of kids who didn't check their work.
key word being "tried"
the class I TA'ed did a similar thing, we just spot checked some problems and then gave credit for doing the homework. It was funny how many students counted on me getting lazy later on and tried to slip stuff by me
18:50
also, <lunch>
g'bye
they would just write some nonsense equations and then write the answer and circle it and hope i wouldn't notice
@bobble Yeah, I'm fine on the HW
are the test problems harder, or is it just the time pressure & environment?
Both, I think
Time is the main problem
Is it that you get stuck and don't know how to approach the problem, or that the calculations take a while to do/write out?
18:59
I don't know! Half of my errors are because I plugged a number wrong or something
It's multiple choice, so no points for doing to steps correctly
So you know how to do it, and it's just getting dinged for silly mistakes, basically?
We're just trying to figure out what part you struggled on
these are the standard questions I ask people I tutor who are struggling on tests
It could also be that you feel really prepared going into the test, and then you realize the test isn't what you expected and as a result you struggle?
@Sciborg Mostly, yes
Do you feel like you make enough silly mistakes on enough problems to warrant getting the poor grades, or are there other factors that lead to the poor grades?
19:03
I don't know
Do you make silly mistakes on the homework?
how are you solving these problems on the tests? if you write out all the steps, you can visually check for errors
also, the way I mostly avoid calculator errors: plug in the same equation 3 times.
if it comes out the same way at least twice, that's probably your answer
19:19
I don't know
Sigh
is this helping, or do you just want some virtual hugs? or both?
Just some hugs, please
virtual hugs
okay, hugs and we will stop. we love you and you'll be fine <3
I'm just not good at anything enough to apply for any real scholarship
19:21
you are good. you are valuable.
you are the bestest tree and it's okay to struggle sometimes
"Who gives a shit about that special snowflake in the middle of a storm?"
Is how I perpetually feel
the snowflakes that happened to end up near it
You're in a feelings stage right now and it's important to work through the feelings, so give it time and let yourself process. We can talk about solutions/ideas again when you are in a solutions stage :)
I guess so. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be all doom and gloomy
19:24
speaking of doom and gloom: 'borg, I have a very long rant about my tics written out that I was planning to email you. Would that be okay?
No worries, we are happy to listen
and sure, you can email me anything :)
The most important thing I learned about processing feelings is that you go through a feelings stage and then a solutions stage, and it's important to focus on what stage you're in and not try to think about solutions in a feelings stage.
I don't know. It's just. I look ahead, and all these special applications for these amazing scholarships (I'm looking at two in specific: one for philosophy and another for composition) require so many work to have already been done
@PrinceNorthLæraðr trees are much bigger than snowflakes. you are smart.
@matt "If a tree falls down in the middle of a forest...."
... we'll help you back up
19:28
the bobblies will make a giant tree-sized pulley and sling and lift you up
<3
(@Sciborg, Doodle Request: draw that)
I don't have any paper with me but I can do an MS Paint doodle!
sure!
hmm, drawing pulleys is hard
19:36
something like
o`
 |
 `o
i guess?
wonderful!
Bobblie Inc. Tree-Lifting Services
Awww
@bobble Let's solve the amount of work required to lift the tree!
Hehe
shouldn't that bobblie in the tree get down so the lifting is easier?
19:47
she's trying her best
I thought that was my crown
your crown is a bobblie
it's a parasitic mutualistic relationship
Is that just a random tree that fell down?
i can draw eyes on you, hang on
What are the ground-bobblies doing?
Stabilizing
is the bobblie on the platform doing anything but yelling?
Isn't that you
hang on, i'll make them be operating pulley controls
user image
4
19:56
Amazing
They're very good at tree-lifting
They are professional Tree-Lifting Bobblies
This is a good use of your time
good, productive use
highly productive
indeed
also dang nice ms paint skills
((Tree Lifting Bobblies)!)* = BLT
where ! = acronym
idk
20:21
That makes no sense
20:31
as do most things i say, tbh

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