@JourneymanGeek There are some differences, cultural differences about politeness vs. clarity line
@JourneymanGeek There are people, mainly from uk, us, .de, who like to us euphemisms for any critical communication. And there are people who like to say what they think
@JourneymanGeek This results, for example, that the first group thinks: "X is a braindamaged asshole", then they say some like this: "maybe X doesn't know the topic enough well, particularly compared to the intensity of his statements", and similar. This is some like an... "automatic translation" in their mind
@JourneymanGeek This results an automatic "re-translation" in the mind of the other people listening them. They decode and understand nearly correctly the original meaning. In their cultural codex, it is an acceptable form of critics, because no rude words were used, despite that it means around the same.
@JourneymanGeek Now the problem is if somebody from the second group tries to talk with a duch polite-communicator. For example, if I detail, that "mods of the same site tend to behave similarly".
@JourneymanGeek This "re-translation mechanism" starts also in this case, and gives a false result. For example, it identifies also the "mods are behaving similarly" statement as a similar euphemism. And thus they think, I wanted to say some much worser, for example "mods are brainwashed robots" or similar.
@JourneymanGeek I only wanted to say, that in this case there were no euphemism. There were NO some secondary, rude meaning what I had packed in this polite formula. To me, it was a perfectly neutral statement, to be interpreted literally, without any negative secondary meaning.
@Ramhound There are really rude people everywhere, but also this false euphemism retranslation effect causes troubles.
@Ramhound Also I am often rude. But in that post I really didn't have such intent. Only the "community" interpreted it so.
@JourneymanGeek It wasn't excuse, I tried to explain, that interpret that "mods are similar" statement literally and neutrally, because also I interpret that statement, my own statement, so.
@JourneymanGeek About my meta.SE style: It is for you. For me: I say what others dare only to think. And to my best conscience, I say what I think, with the intent of helping the askers and the googlers of the future. The "actively harmful" is surely not true, the "misleading" may true in the case if my yearlong SE experience was mainly false.
@peterh That's called being diplomatic. Its a lovely skill.
@peterh I gave you a clear example where you're essentially telling a member of the community, working on a site you're not involved in, that the project he was working on would be killed off.
Another example is claiming SE does not want non english SOs cause of some language-centricness while a CM's basically said "I want to see this happen, but we need to do some significant changes to our codebase"
@JourneymanGeek A lot of ru.so questions came, each after the other, and I've thought, considering that I think the SE doesn't really want any nonenglish thing, it may be dangerous for them. Normally, intra-cm communication doesn't happen on the meta se. If it happens, it means for me that that at least one of the relevant cms is... unstable
@JourneymanGeek You don't understand this whole thing............. german.stackexchange.com is an english/german site about the German language. The initiative, what TimPost killed, probably executing a more higher directive, had been the de.stackoverflow.com .
2 downvotes and one downvote then an immediate reversal on the 25th, 1 downvotes on the 26th, another on the 27th, and one is pending today and they are normal 12 hours a part. Anyways, it's just odd timing, I had gone months, without a single downvote and 4 days in a row
@Ramhound Ok, but votes are always coming, I think calculating on induvidual votes is like calculating the induvidual drops in the rain. I think the weather is more important as the location of the next drop
@JourneymanGeek Also I read. "we can't translate, it is so big work", "we won't divide the so", and many similar. Ask Jimbo Wales, they started withiut any problem new wikipedia languages without even a translated wikipedia engine.
> Primarily, this is due to native speakers of that language being unlikely to also speak English to the degree of proficiency required for them to comfortably participate on an English sit
@JourneymanGeek It is not true. Even German programmers not always. Although they are more better as the countries to east or to south from them. And they are also much better as the french
@JourneymanGeek Note, my first langjage is not German, I talk on it around on the level like on English. And I wanted the de.so because it had been the very best German learning for me
@JourneymanGeek A lot of other people had the same goal on the proposal. To learn German, like as we've learned English from the net and from the computers (and from the rpg :-) )
@JourneymanGeek I still don't think it had been timpost's decision. And I still think, the real reason the killing of the proposal was, that it had grown too fast
So because of limited developer resources, and perhaps less interest the you actually realize, a project was cancelled. So what are you accusing Tim of exactly? If a Stackexchange website grew fast that would have been a good thing not a reason to cancel it. Where do you get this idea SE doesn't want non-English communities?
@JourneymanGeek In the deleted proposals section on the A51. I am not sure, but afaik the a51 also physically deletes the deleted posts after a time, not only logically as the normal sites
If the community was a large as you claim, SE would have no problem to push the money for the hardware required, and the UI work is something else entirely
@JourneymanGeek The hw prices are very few compared to the people working on it. A fulltime programmer in the US can earn $80k in a year or much more, what server cluster could you buy from this money?
@JourneymanGeek Programmer they have. But translating a dict file doesn't really need a programmer, any native german speaker can do it, if he can open a text file, and edit in it below all English lines the German one.
@JourneymanGeek CM... I don't know, in the ru.se they could solve it
@Ramhound Before they killed the proposal... there was a phase, as the proposal waited for starting
@Ramhound And somehow it hadn't started. They I already felt, that there will be a problem
@Ramhound Until then I didn't ever seen that the SE will officially change its word. They were euphemist, they bullshitted, they did many bad, but nevef changed their word and never dedtroyed anything on this way, retroactively
@Ramhound As tbe proposal was suspended, I was nearly sure, they only wait the community to dissolve silently. After that, they will delete the proposal, silently. And they will lie and change their word. And exactly so has happened!
@Ramhound German IT industry doesn't go so well as the size of the economy would make it reasonable. The programmer salaries start to near the postcommie block of the eu
@Ramhound But I know at least 1 german programmer worked on the se code
I have around 1.5k on the unixse. They have the usual self foot shooting idea on the se
in their case it is, that they simply forbid any programming question. On the bullshitting mode: in throry, they are ok, but in practice, they close thrm
on superUSER it is maybe not a problem. But on unix.se, I can't ask, how a signal is delivered to a multithreaded process?????????? What the f*k is unix if not this????
If you continue that language I will flag it and place you on ignore
I might curse like a sailor in my personal life but, in a environment like this, assume your talking to your 110 year old grandmother who also is the Virgin Mary and married to the Pope. In other words; Don't use vulgarity.
questions with numerical results, or using too many NUMBERS are forbidden. They communicate this politely, in their explanation, they are "homework-like" and in theory, only the homework questions are forbidden. In practice, if a question contain too many NUMBERS, then they consider this as a homework question
Or, on the serverfault. Since around 15 years, nearly all server systems have something, software, addon, anything, what makes them webconfigurable. They call them control panels. This name is coming from that a particularly low quality web configuration tool for linux had the name cpanel (what came from "control panel"). Sysadms started this job earlier as around 15 years, all started with some web frontend. Now all questions about using, debugging, etc. web frontends, are all forbidden there
@JourneymanGeek 1. not all 2. yes, around 90% of the cpanel questions are coming from ops, whose main problem is that they cant find the characters on their keyboard 3. many of them actually destruct the system underneath and then makes bugs because he harmed the system below it. Yes, these are all true, but for them already exist reasons!
We've had this discussion before, but it's apparently time to revisit it. For some background, see:
Questions belonging to intersection of webmasters.stackexchange and ServerFault
Are cpanel questions really 'professional sysadmin' related?
Question about Migrated post that was closed
What is a...
@peterh in a very real sense, community management is about finding a balance between keeping newbies comfortable, and keeping old hands happy and posting answers and helping run the community.
@JourneymanGeek On the meta site, actually not a decision process happens. Not people are saying different things and then the community decides by votes. No. People are RACING, eho can explain more beautifully, why the actual topic should be made offtopic. It is not a question, if it should be made offtopic, the real question is, how we want to explain it.
Your this angry because of questions that are deleted because their quality is basically that of the noodle you thrown up against the cabinets to see if it's cooked?
(granted, in this case my authority hopefully stems from the love and adoration of the masses, rather than getting granted a shiny diamond by the powers that be)
I'd like to know what your experiences are from my side of the fence.
@JourneymanGeek None of them was so hardcore as an se modship
@JourneymanGeek The group was always small and strongly focused to the same task.
@JourneymanGeek If I delete a chat message, can you still see it?
@JourneymanGeek Despite that, there were always strong internal conflicts
@Ramhound In theory, unix programming is not offtopic by them, in practice, they close all
@Ramhound I should fight a lot for that on the unix se meta, and I would probably lose
@Ramhound Once I tried. I tried to argument, that highlevel programming questions would attract highlevel answerers, and the SE itself says, that professionals attract enthusiast. but not in the other direction
@Ramhound The result: I got accusations that I want to expel newbies and fill the site with programming........... they entirely missed the focus
@Ramhound And this on the unix se
@Ramhound Dince then, I am not very active on this site
@Ramhound I think it could be some CM or inter-mod agreement in the background. The SE (company) wants all programming questions to the SO, they communicated it many times, and somehow so happens it. Despite that the mods are, in theory, "independant"
This answer has a dead link and two dead images. The remaining line of text is only part of the answer. How would y'all mods prefer to handle things like this?
(I checked the Wayback Machine for the images, they're not there, but the page is)