For a one-off or short-term rudeness, my policy is to respond with pure facts, served chilled. If you have a good instinct for delivering comebacks at just the right level, a hint (but just a hint) of sarcasm might work wonders.
Manners are important, but it's not our job to teach the students ma...
Thank you so much for your amazing answer. I did not meant to threat her at all. All the idea, she said something untrue about me. So, I tried to ask her to do not said that.
@Alice I am sure you didn't mean it as a threat, but with uncooperative students, they might try to turn your own word against you, that's why your formulation needs to be well chosen. Good luck with this case!
IMO, passive-aggressive behavior is never an appropriate (or professional) response. To "serve something chilled", "use sarcasm", or "respond coldly" are just terrible ways to communicate the same thing to the person - "I'm a person too, and I didn't appreciate your tone". Why not just say this outright, instead of playing all these games? I think most people would prefer direct communication, as opposed to receiving a passive-aggressive response. Did you consider what this student might think if their professor responds coldly/with sarcasm? My guess is they will think they don't like them.
@java-addict301 I do not like the term "passive-aggressive". It is one of these "passive-aggressive" words that somehow implies that one does something wrong. My experience is that really rude people on being openly addressed will not admit to being rude, they will deny it, and turn the table back on you and claim you are. Think of a certain politician who employs precisely this tactic to great (and infuriating) effect to see a live version of that. I think a lecturer should have better things to do than to open an argument who is rude to whom. But they should enact rudeness having a cost.
@CaptainEmacs whether you call it 'passive-aggressive' or 'not being direct and open', the effect is the same. The person on the receiving end has no idea why they are receiving the behavior, and is forced to interpret it. In this case, the student could easily interpret it as the professor "having it out for them", especially if they see other students treated differently. Some people will argue with you whether you're being passive-aggressive or not. That doesn't mean you have to engage back however (and you especially have this option as a professor). Direct and open is better, IMO.
@java-addict301 I take "serve chilled" and "respond coldly" to mean a lack of "heat"--anger, irateness--in one's responses, rather than an attitude of dismissal or condescension. The less emotional, the better. A "hint of sarcasm" in an answer to a request that is ridiculous and entitled may actually be helpful in altering the entitled behavior, e.g. "I apologize for not being able to see and usefully respond to every email sent to me five minutes before deadline."
@RiversMcForge I would argue that sarcasm such as that is counter productive as it is likely to incite anger/resentment, in addition to informing the individual. So, why not just inform them? "I do not check my email constantly due to other responsibilities as a professor, so please do not expect an instant response through that medium". Better yet, inform the entire class in the syllabus and simply refer the student to the syllabus rather than trying to 'get a dig in'.
@CaptainEmacs " no I don't have the option not to answer if the student..." - I was referring to not engaging them back when they start to argue (as you mentioned they might). It is actually perfectly legitimate to tell the student (child, employee, etc) "I am not going to argue about it".when they decide to argue back. If the person truly is being argumentative about something, then everyone else will see your point also. Why is it your problem if the student/child/employee doesn't see it also? simply refuse to engage (you teach others how to treat you in this way. Will you argue?).
@java-addict301 That's where the "hint of sarcasm" comes in. You deliver "I apologize for not being able to see and usefully respond to every email sent to me five minutes before deadline" in a tone of complete sincerity, not with folded arms and rolled eyes (that would be way more than 'a hint' of sarcasm). For this to work, you need to project empathy and really be genuinely sorry that you weren't able to help the student in time--while also delivering a gentle reminder that this situation could have been avoided by emailing well in advance.
@RiversMcForge I agree that the gentle reminder is important. I disagree that this sarcasm is 'gentle' and harmless (I suspect if you were on the receiving end of it you might agree, but I could be mistaken). I would personally find this inappropriate if I were to receive it in a professional setting.
@java-addict301 I think you're still imagining someone saying or emailing it in a really snarky way, to someone being respectful and polite. When in actuality, it would only ever be said to someone who was already yelling you about something ridiculous, and would be delivered with more of a "what-can-you-do" shrug than in a tone of equal anger: "I sent you this email at 11:55 and I NEEDED a response by 12 PM!""I apologize for not being able to see and usefully respond to every email sent to me five minutes before deadline. If you give me more time, I can be more helpful in future."
@CaptainEmacs I understand, but I don't believe there is ever a place for passive-aggressive behavior (indeed, it is generally recognized as an anti pattern in psychology). I would be much more concerned with you showing students passive-aggressive strategies over authority-based argument, when the latter is actually quite common in many aspects of society. Regardless, deciding between passive-aggressive behavior and arguing is false dichotomy (just because you are sarcastic to someone doesn't mean you won't have to argue).
@RiversMcForge I assure you I'm not. Keep in mind that the more genuine and sincere the delivery of a passive-aggressive statement, the more patronizing and demeaning it will come across (such as insulting someone's intelligence).
@java-addict301 I'm not saying "Apologize insincerely but make it sound sincere", which would be passive-aggressive. I'm saying "Apologize sincerely and make it clear that you are sincere". If the angry asker genuinely didn't realize how dumb their request was, this reality check will get them to back off, and maybe they'll even apologize to you. While if the angry asker did realize, but didn't care, this reality check will at least signal that you're just as aware of how dumb their request was as they are, and have no intention of being cowed into compliance with an impossible demand.
@RiversMcForge this "and usefully respond to every email sent to me five minutes before deadline" is passive aggressive and is a psychological anti pattern that should be avoided. Much better to just tell them that They shouldn't expect it, rather than being passive aggressive.
@CaptainEmacs I agree we are arguing in circles. To me, copping out saying you are a practitioner is akin to an engineer saying "that is physics, but I'm a practitioner". Why would you need to 'save face'? "You actually want the student to realize their rudeness without having to make it explicit" That's the point, they very well may Not since you never told them directly. How can you ensure they don't think you simply don't like them? This is one (of many) reasons it's a psychological anti pattern, and that is Absolutely relevant since you are a practitioner (especially as an educator).
@CaptainEmacs " that defeats the purpose. You actually want the student to realize their rudeness without having to make it explicit" why?? I don't understand the purpose of not stating it explicitly. Is it so you can avoid an uncomfortable five seconds? Realize this goes against the recommendation of most professionals in the field of psychology.
@java-addict301 I just got done explaining how it wasn't passive-aggressive lol. You are assuming intent that's not necessarily there--maybe you have been able to help the demander in 5 min before the deadline before, and weren't able to in this situation? There is a broken-record quality to the responses I'm getting that suggests it will be unproductive to engage further and also (ironically? intentionally?) comes off as passive-aggressive. But if you can give a reason why it would be passive-aggressive, rather than merely asserting that it is with no evidence, I'd be happy to hear it.
@java-addict301 Why "save face"? In many cultures, this is a fundamental imperative of interpersonal behaviour. Since you extensively quote psychological arguments, you should know this and that causing others to "lose face" has lots of escalation potential. This has led to wars, not just "uncomfortable five seconds". Also, you never reacted to my comment that really rude people tend to turn the tables and instead claim that you are rude. Ignoring it is an option, as a one-off. But on systematic rudeness, I do not see why one would owe more than cold politeness. Certainly not an explanation.
@java-addict301 One final comment: you seem to be worried about this really rude student that simply does not know/accept that they are rude. They have to find out somehow, I agree. But I believe that, like with scientific learning, finding out on one's own, based on sparse hints, is a far more effective lesson rather than being explicitly told so. Not the least, because, if that person is really rude throughout, already being old enough to be university student, the latter most certainly has happened at some point in their life, and obviously without lasting effect.
@RiversMcForge saying something isn't passive aggressive doesn't make it so. I suggest reviewing the definition. dictionary.com/browse/passive-aggressive. This will be my last response to you.
@CaptainEmacs It does sound to me like you are overly concerned with "saving face" as it seems you have started into hyperbole and anecdotes to defend. I did indeed respond to your "turn the tables" concern with the advice simply to not engage (which I believe you rejected). Regarding your second comment, I have appealed to widely accepted principles from the field of psychology which your seem to reject in favor of your opinions ("I believe..", "I feel", etc). This is thus my last message.
@java-addict301 Asserting without evidence that something is passive-aggressive doesn't make it so, either. I've given several explanations of situations where it would not reasonably be construed, nor intended, as passive-aggressive. Your only response is to tell me to "consult a dictionary". This does not count as "evidence" and, even if it wasn't your intention, comes off as awfully snotty. I'm happy to invoke Hitchens' razor here and move on.
@java-addict301 I do not know what you mean by hyperbole. I am reporting a real phenomenon, and I have had my own version of the experience with this myself, especially since I work with a very international clientele. I could equally claim that you are overly concerned with "passive-aggressiveness" which pervades all your argument. Also, you devaluate my own experience by calling it "anecdotes".
@java-addict301 I am aware that you talk about "accepted psychological principles" - but I am afraid, I'll invoke Feynman here: and not the part where he has a low opinion of psychology, but the part where he says don't trust authority, but test for yourself. You talked about "do not engage". You claim I rejected it. That is untrue. I have responded to you that this works as a one-off. However, I have had experience with systemically rude people on an extended basis, [cont'd]
@java-addict301 I used to follow many years ago what you consider "accepted psychological principles" (it used to be called "nonviolent communication" then). In the tough cases, and it's these we talk about, it did not work, no matter what your "principles" say. This is not my opinion, but my experience. It's not going away by being called "anecdote". Your principle may work for people who can invest extended time for a full therapeutic set of conversations, but that's not my job or ambition.
Discussion on answer by Captain Emacs…
Discussion on answer by Captain Emacs…