Cafe and Tavern on the math.se

Paramanand Singh

00:43

@user21820: your remarks regarding "give an exam" remind me of the chatroom "I have a doubt". :D

Paramanand Singh

00:53

@user21820: the phrase "give an exam" is not listed in the site dealing with Indianisms, but I think this is how one typically speaks in Hindi about an exam. So in Hindi it is the examiner who "takes" an exam and the examinee "gives" it.

Paramanand Singh

01:11

And it is strange that I am aware of the British / American meaning of the phrase and yet it slipped through. Maybe when we are engaged in informal discussions the mind is relaxed and probably thinks more in native language.

Anthony

04:40

@amWhy ah komedy ;)

Teresa Lisbon

08:02

@amWhy Oh pardon me, second reminder for the Xanderism "verbing" a noun (inform me if you already made a note, I'm sorry if you already noted it down!)

@amWhy I'm 1/2 from one town, and 1/4 from a town and a village, each of these are probably less than 80 km apart from each other! They are all temple towns, each one is known only for their temples . Old ones, of course, 1091 was one of them, I think 943 was another, and the last one was built somewhere in the 660s, I believe my ancestors were temple builders and/or also served as priests in these temples. I serve as priest at MSE now, so I'm carrying forward the legacy (maybe!)

soupless

@TeresaLisbon Can I ask what Xanderism is?

Teresa Lisbon

08:43

@soupless A Xanderism is a word or phrase that has the distinction of being possibly (or in fact , DEFINITELY) grammatically incorrect, and simultaneously the honour of being mentioned (and implicitly understood, that how good he is!) in a chat message posted by the MSE-moderator-cum-aesthete Prof. Xander Henderson.

You will see examples as you follow the foot(chat?)steps of the man himself.

soupless

Oh, ok. Thanks!

Teresa Lisbon

09:04

@soupless Welcome!

user21820

10:33

@ParamanandSingh Yea that's probably the case. In my own community, the commonly spoken English is broken (to the point that it is not so easy for foreigners who speak proper English to understand), and most here speak it. In casual conversation, I slip a little into it. But incidentally, most of us know that our 'English' is broken but we're happy with it because it is faster than speaking proper English (we drop a lot of words all the time and tense is often lost).

@quid Taking about holidays, the word originated from "holy day". Maybe it's time to change it to "happiday". =P

quid

11:39

@user21820 sure. In practice various religuous holidays are deprived of their meaning, or are not religious in origin to begin with.

Of course "in practice" will depend where one is. I meant it for the US, since that was the starting point; the same is true to differing degrees in most parts of Europe.

user21820

@quid Yea I know. I was just spouting fun.

So now...

20 hours ago, by amWhy

What about PROBLEM STATEMENT QUESTION? (All vowels present, and an S)

@amWhy: You need to set some restrictions so that we can't make effortless postings. =P

quid

@user21820 you have to provide context ;-)

2

user21820

@quid That's going to be hard...

quid

So what? It's a challenge after all.

user21820

@quid I'm just pretending to be a typical PSQ asker. PRETENSION

quid

11:52

Likely the "not religious in origin" needs a caveat, in that Sunday after all is religious in origin.

@user21820 I see you are PRETENTIOUS ;-)

user21820

Hmm I originally had the incorrect "pretention". It appears I mixed up "pretentious" and "pretension".. now why does English have such weird word formations??

@quid I PROTEST!

quid

@user21820 maybe because it's in a way a mix of French and German.

user21820

@quid According to the Old/New TESTAMENT, that is.

Well, OT says Sabbath. The holiday has now shifted to sunday probably due to NT influence.

quid

@user21820 indeed it's the new one. (Of course the concept of a holiday repeating all 7 days predates that, but there was a shift.)

user21820

@quid Hah I managed to type it first.

quid

11:59

@user21820 yes exactly. It's based on Easter, it's Easter Sunday that is commemorated each Sunday.

user21820

PROBLEM STATEMENT QUESTION → BEST NOT SETTLE ON PREMIUM Q&A

@amWhy: I think that's the best I can do for your suggested word challenge!

Paramanand Singh

13:12

EMBLEM

PREAMBLE

STATION

TENEMENT, ATONEMENT

TORMENT (that's what PSQs are)

TOURNAMENT

PROMINENT

SETTLEMENT

Lots of ment

SENTIMENT, SENTIMENTAL, SENTIENT

OSTENSIBLE

PORTENTIOUS (there is no I in American version)

soupless

13:30

Did you start already?

Paramanand Singh

@soupless: I saw some words already so I also gave a few

Maybe this is done without permission from @amWhy, so we need to be ready for the admonishing :D

soupless

The basis is PROBLEM STATEMENT QUESTION?

Paramanand Singh

Yes

soupless

what is the longest word, as of now?

Paramanand Singh

Oh need to check that

soupless

13:33

Hmm. I see some SEMIPERMANENT longest word, as of this moment

Paramanand Singh

Cool

soupless

I just provided a sentence when I saw that you have to provide context as stated by @quid

Paramanand Singh

Then the context for all my words are that they are being used in a game

Haha

soupless

Also, I love STRONTIUM because it has a lot of PROTONS, and also because I have PROTEINS

@ParamanandSingh Also, I wonder if the word PRESENTIMENTAL exists

soupless

14:47

no other attempts, or everyone is extremely busy?

user21820

15:02

@soupless Yea I was busy elsewhere.

QUEST TAMES PERTINENT BLOOM of PROBLEM STATEMENT QUESTION

soupless

Why is it that QUATERNIONS are rare PSQs, though?

user21820

So far my anagrams have 5,4 words respectively. I'm still trying to find a 3-word anagram.

@soupless Because it's not in syllabus.

soupless

@user21820 Well, you can say that TIN, MAT, PER, ATE are some of it.

user21820

@soupless Not 3-letter words; 3-word anagrams of the entire phrase!

soupless

Oh, I see.

user21820

15:09

There should be many actually, just that we humans can't find them.

@Peter: You're good at anagrams; did you find any? =D

soupless

@user21820 TESTAMENT was given, I can't find one for PROBLEM, and the longest valid anagram that I can think of for QUESTION is INQUEST

user21820

@soupless Actually what I meant is that you can freely rearrange all the letters, just that they must all end up in 3 words. Oh I can't count today; my first attempt actually had 6 'words' (if "Q&A" even counts). My second had 4 words. Hard to rearrange into a 3-word meaningful phrase.

Usually I take away a long word first, and then I try to split the rest.

Peter

@user21820 for which text ?

soupless

@user21820 All letters must be used?

The nearest I have is SOME QUESTIONABLE TERM

4 letters remaining

amWhy

ANTI-PSQs Just stating my POSITION on the matter!

user21820

15:20

@soupless Yes that's the definition of anagram. You can check my two anagrams! =D

amWhy

PROSTATE

user21820

And I just found a 3-word anagram!!

PROBLEM STATEMENT QUESTION: QUITE PERMANENT, BOTTOMLESS...

amWhy

IMPOSTER

@user21820 Nice. Just so we're clear, my word above was not a response to you.

TOMBSTONE

user21820

@amWhy Hahaha. Who knows what I am right now.

soupless

PROMOTE EQUITABLENESS!

amWhy

15:24

@soupless Beautiful!

user21820

@amWhy: By the way, did you see my second anagram here? I guess having more letters does make it easier to find funny anagrams.

amWhy

@user21820 Hah! ;D

soupless

@user21820 Well, I thought that this was a rule, but then I realized that it was an anagram

user21820

@soupless I specialize in anagrams. As long as the phrase is of the same length, I must have made an anagram. =D

amWhy

@user21820 But I really believe most words searches should present more challenge.

INQUEST, PROMISE

soupless

15:35

Can I ask how to place comments on edit?

For example, in LaTeX, '%' is used, something like this?

user21820

@soupless What does "edit" mean?

On the main site?

soupless

Yes, and I am referring to the post editor,

user21820

You can use HTML comments. Try typing this into the ask-question page to see what is displayed:

<!--
This is a comment
-->

There is a hidden comment.

soupless

Oh, thanks!

Xander Henderson

Just... why?

user21820

15:45

I'm not sure if it may break in some special cases peculiar to SE. And I don't recommend you use too much of it, as I consider it clutter if nobody can see it.

soupless

@XanderHenderson If there are links that are used and it will be removed, I prefer leaving it as a comment

user21820

@XanderHenderson Well, if SE designers don't want it they should have not allowed it. It is clearly a design choice to allow it. For whatever reason. (Instead of allowing a more flexible inline-image syntax, they made it ridiculously hard to use and I can never remember so I just make do with the default imgur sizes. This shows that they clearly did some very strict parsing.)

@soupless What do you mean by "used" and "will be removed"?

Xander Henderson

@user21820 My question was literal. Why?

Why do you need to put html comments into a post?

@soupless I don't understand that use case. Can you explain?

soupless

@user21820 For example, an image is attached. Then, the contents are extracted from there and the image will be less useful and will probably be removed from the post, but if the image will be used later, the link should be "preserved"

Or should it cease to exist?

user21820

@soupless Ah that's your idea. No it is not needed anymore because the original link is in the timeline already.

Xander Henderson

15:51

@soupless The entire edit history of a post is available to anyone. If a link is removed at some point because it is not relevant to the current state of the question, it is still available to anyone who cares.

amWhy

@Xander I never understood why I have an allotment of 100 flags per day, far more limited up/downvotes, and close/reopen votes?? Any ideas?

soupless

Oh. So silly of me to forget the edit history.

Thanks!

user21820

@amWhy Good question! I had it too once upon a time.

Xander Henderson

@amWhy No idea.

user21820

But since you mention it, let me raise some flags to use that quota!

Xander Henderson

15:54

@amWhy Though, I suspect, it has something to do with the fact that close/delete/reopen/undelete votes require no moderator intervention, whereas flags do.

amWhy

@user21820 Indeed! Imagine the nightmare we could inflict on mods!! hehehehe

Xander Henderson

@amWhy I mean, it only takes a second to see that the flag was raised by you, then hit "decline".

:P

amWhy

@XanderHenderson ;P

soupless

What is this question, by the way?

amWhy

16:07

@soupless This question is far too localized, about a single video game, I suspect, and it lacks sufficient detail and context. I voted to close.

user21820

@soupless Well, I voted to close it for the reason stated. It's clearly a person who thought that "hyperbolic" in a fictional story really meant something mathematical...

soupless

Quite weird that it is something asked on a serious math site,

amWhy

@user21820 Remember the series of Matrix movies? (starring Keanu Reeves?) They had nothing to do with matrices, in the world of mathematics.

Xander Henderson

@amWhy Series? That doesn't sound right... they never made a sequel to that movie.

user21820

@XanderHenderson Funny...

@XanderHenderson There is no matrix. It's all lies, even the first one.

Xander Henderson

16:11

Heh.

soupless

@amWhy Take JackManifoldTV. Where is the manifold?

user21820

You need to take the green jelly bean if you want to get the real thing.

Xander Henderson

Of course, "matrix" also has other non-mathematical meanings which do make sense in the context of the film.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson There was the The Matrix, The Matrix 2, can't remember exactly, and the final sequel was Matrix Revolution.

Xander Henderson

@amWhy I feel like I would remember that if it had happened.

user21820

16:12

@XanderHenderson Actually mathematical matrices do use the meaning of the English word matrix. Literally you arrange those numbers in a matrix. Think of the matrix as an invisible grid of cells holding those numbers captive.

@XanderHenderson It's not a significant memory until you take the green jelly bean.

Xander Henderson

@user21820 Yeah, I know, but that wasn't really my point. The use of "matrix" in that movie title is a pretty standard vernacular meaning of the word, and has nothing to do with any mathematical sense of the word (except insofar as the mathematical meaning derives from earlier meanings in plain English).

amWhy

:57617275

Xander Henderson

@user21820 Heh.

amWhy

The Matrix

The Matrix is a 1999 science fiction action film written and directed by the Wachowskis, and produced by Joel Silver. Starring Keanu Reeves, Laurence Fishburne, Carrie-Anne Moss, Hugo Weaving, and Joe Pantoliano, and as the first installment in the Matrix franchise, it depicts a dystopian future in which humanity is unknowingly trapped inside a simulated reality, the Matrix, which intelligent machines have created to distract humans while using their bodies as an energy source. When computer programmer Thomas Anderson, under the hacker alias "Neo", uncovers the truth, he "is drawn into a rebellion...

Xander Henderson

@amWhy I agree entirely. :P

user21820

16:15

@XanderHenderson Ah. Yes. True.

@XanderHenderson What? How did you agree to a non-showing message?

Xander Henderson

@user21820 Perhaps text is a poor medium for jokes... :'(

user21820

Interesting. So the reply button doesn't work if you delete everything off. Let me try that.

:57617314

Indeed.

Xander Henderson

@user21820 No, this is nonsense. I can't abide by that.

user21820

:57617319

Xander Henderson

@user21820 Well, okay, when you put it that way...

user21820

16:17

Heheh..

Xander Henderson

@XanderHenderson So... what am I replying to?

soupless

Can I ask how to get the message ID (if I called it correctly) of the next message?

amWhy

Right click and copy the "permalink" (you can access it when you hover a post, and see the downward triangle. You can paste the link in a new comment field to see the final colon, followed by digits at the right most end of the URL.

@XanderHenderson Do you see now the Matrix Trilogy? The Matrix, The Matrix Reloaded, The Matrix Revolution.

soupless

What I mean is the process of obtaining the ID of the next message here? Or is it hard to?

user21820

@soupless Try replying to this message. I'll show you something.

soupless

16:23

@user21820 Ok, I did it!

user21820

I just gave you an infinite loop of replies! =D

amWhy

What happened to my comment I just submitted?

soupless

How do you reply to yourself, then?

Xander Henderson

@amWhy I mean, it would have been awesome if there were a couple of sequels to the Matrix. Unfortunately, the Wachowski brothers were killed in a tragic bus accident 20 years ago, and were never given the opportunity to expand upon their vision.

At least, that is the world I choose to live in.

user21820

@soupless To actually answer your question, I think chat message ids are generated across the network so you can't predict the next id within a room unless the room is active while all other rooms are not.

Xander Henderson

16:24

@user21820 Ha!

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Stop playing with me!

Xander Henderson

@amWhy :P

I need to go get groceries.

soupless

How long is this room, if I may ask?

user21820

@soupless You copy the permalink and then extract the id from there and put a ":" in front.

soupless

I will send a sample message.

And this is the second one.

Anthony

16:26

@soupless go to first day of the room in transscript

user21820

@soupless Rooms get frozen if nobody posts anything in 2 weeks. Moderators can unfreeze a room if you request them (and you're not a spammer or something).

@XanderHenderson Just believe your groceries into your apartment...

soupless

I failed. As @Anthony suggested, I checked it and it was 211 days, but if the ID is taken as the number of seconds, it should be at least 600 days?

user21820

@soupless I thought I explained the chat ids already? It's just a counter.

soupless

211 or 209 days? Whatever. Margin of error: 1 day

@user21820 I thought that maybe it was

user21820

It isn't?

Why don't you try. You can look at every not-deleted chat message just by changing the id.

soupless

16:30

Was this room frozen, at some point?

Anthony

@soupless this one's quiet recent, so not really

amWhy

@user21820 Enter the Matrix, and be careful not to mess with men in sunglasses and dark suits! Just look up, and whistle past them, to shop, then pretend you are studying your groceries on your way out, and do it all, from your favorite chair!!

Xander Henderson

@user21820 I don't live in an apartment, so that strategy fails. :(

And now I am actually leaving.

amWhy

@Anthony But it's among the best of all chats!! :P

Anthony

@amWhy and whatever happens don't pick a fight with them

user21820

16:33

@XanderHenderson Oops. Bye! =)

soupless

I just thought that it was based on the number of seconds because the codes seem to take it, for example, assume that this message is sent on the 123456789th second of existence of this room. Then, if my claim is correct, the ID will be 123456789

Anthony

@amWhy ofcourse, that's why everyone's here ;)

user21820

No... I already told you... it's just a plain counter across the whole network...

Look here's the first few messages ever:

in Chat feedback, Oct 18 '10 at 9:14, by Feeds

All feedback welcome!

in The SE Tavern, Oct 18 '10 at 9:14, by Feeds

Welcome to chat.stackexchange.com

in The SE Tavern, Oct 18 '10 at 9:14, by Feeds

This is a general discussion room, but please feel free to create more subject-specific rooms (a single room with every possible discussion isn't very helpful)

Number 2 is missing, so we can guess it is private or deleted.

soupless

Hmm. Number of messages?

user21820

No it's just in order of time!

soupless

16:34

No. This one is ruled out

Why are there skips though?

user21820

46 secs ago, by user21820

Number 2 is missing, so we can guess it is private or deleted.

@amWhy If you carry a pokeball, they will run away.

amWhy

@user21820 I'll be sure to keep one in my pocket when I next enter the Matrix! ;D

user21820

@amWhy You're in now. Do you have one?

(Personally, I like neither the Matrix movies nor Pokemon. Hahaha..)

amWhy

@user21820 Indeed! I used my mind to transport one to me while in the Matrix! And they all ran away, those scary men!

user21820

Lol.

soupless

16:46

@soupless So I will try adding : in front of an ID, which should work

@amWhy Hello

@amWhy So I just did it. I replied to myself

amWhy

@soupless o/ (That's a wave hello).

soupless

This one. I did it.

amWhy

@soupless Yes, any time you want to let users you updated a previous message, and can link to it just like you just did, and ping others, and comment further on your previous message, all all will be able to trace your comment to the comment you are extending.

soupless

@soupless Yes.

amWhy

18:20

Welcome, @yonatan!

amWhy

20:17

@quid I see you couldn't resist returning to this chatroom! ;D

quid

20:44

@amWhy and again I failed.

amWhy

@quid ;D Did you enjoy your root beer float yesterday (actually, for you it was likely early early a.m.) ?

quid

@amWhy it was a bloat? You did not tell me that. That's why my belly hurts.

amWhy

@quid I have absolutely no clue what you are referring to ;D

quid

@amWhy I have proof!

amWhy

@quid I shall confess; I made a typo of float (came out bloat)... but yeah, I still had time left to edit!!

@quid You got your confession, detective quid! ;D

Mind you, if you arrest me, I will not be kind when detecting your next typo! I will take a screen shot for proof, and then arrest you! ;D

quid

20:54

@amWhy I am already shivering.

amWhy

@quid Hah! ;D

@quid How's your weather been lately?

quid

@amWhy not great, cold and rainy.

Xander Henderson

@quid I'm confused. Has the weather been "not great" or "cold and rainy"?

PICK ONE!

IT CAN'T BE BOTH!

quid

So you like cold and rainy ?

Xander Henderson

@quid Indeed. :P

amWhy

20:59

@XanderHenderson It was a typo, he meant not great because it was cold and rainy. The comma was shorthand!

Xander Henderson

@amWhy I knew what he meant, but he is WRONG! Cold and rainy is the BEST weather.

:P

amWhy

@quid, @XanderHenderson shared something with me about my flags, in the world according to mods: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/57617111#57617111. I'm still trying to recover from such disclosure!! ;P

@quid, I confess, yet again, it was a response to my intent to use all 100 flags I have available every day!

quid

@amWhy well empirically we don't decline so often

amWhy

@quid Ultimately, the question I had is why users can earn up to 100 flags per day (quota), but far fewer close/reopen votes, and far fewer up and downvotes. @Xander gave a reasonable answer. But then, I wanted that answer challenged, if some of us conspire to find 100 reasons per day to flag for moderator attention!

quid

@amWhy I'd be happy if you eventually stopped the slacking and got up to speed with flagging!

amWhy

21:09

Bottom line is, for the reason given, it is not fair to site moderators, hence I joked about "we might as well all max out on flags". Flag for moderator attention: "This post should be closed, but I have no close votes left..." etc.

quid

@amWhy indeed that might get declined.

But it might be accepted in extreme cases

amWhy

@quid I'll save it for extreme cases as a last resort, if I find myself out of close, delete. Would a "For moderator attention flag: I'm out of votes, but this question needs to be upvoted. Please place an upvote for me!" work? ;P

@quid Hah! lol ;D

@quid I have a 99.99999999999999989 percent accuracy on my evaluation of posts to be upvoted or downvoted. So how could my "moderator attention flag" requesting either, be decline? :P

Of course, the data for that last statistic is in the final stages of publication, indefinitely.

quid

@amWhy no idea.

amWhy

@quid Have you seen any films in the Matrix Trilogy? I linked to Wikipedia, where the listed the sequels: The Matrix, Matrix Reloaded, and Matrix Revolution?

quid

@amWhy yes I did I think.

Xander Henderson

21:25

@amWhy Ha!

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Thanks for acknowledgement, which I accept, and I am humbled by it! ;P

@quid @Xander "denies" the existence of two sequels to The Matrix! Really?? ;D

quid

21:47

@amWhy maybe he took a wrong pill or something.

amWhy

@quid I just hope he hasn't bought into some Conspiracy Theory. ;D I actually figure he was teasing me! ;D

quid

@amWhy glad that is settle. I was already penning a letter to SE how Xander is unstable and unreliable and might need to be removed.

amWhy

There are words popping up in the US media, often in political banter that I cannot keep track of. Woke, for example, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke, which is now used by the GOP to ridicule others and their policies.

@quid Hah!! You are hilarious today!! (and periodically!) ;D

quid

@amWhy better lets talk about wok? Any offers in this direction in this cafe?

amWhy

On a Sunday, @quid, nah. Only non-alcoholic beverages on a Sunday, which as you noted early, is the Sabbath day in Christianity. And folks were terribly hungry today, so we ran out of the specials of the day, food wise. There is, however, some plain white rice available.

quid

22:00

@amWhy I'll take that and a glass of milk.

amWhy

quid

Thanks!

amWhy

quid

Thanks again

amWhy

Sorry for the delay, sir @quid!

quid

22:13

It's fine. It's Sunday after all.

amWhy

:-)

@quid Somewhere, I thought I posted a comment about the trend on meta, which seems to be dominated by complaints about a particular question (answer) that was closed, or a singe comment that was deleted, or a failed suggested edit, and more indignation about one question's deletion from an answerer of that question... Is there any way we can encourage to post fewer localized questions, else they all seem to become dupes of other meta such posts.

I know we're always going to get a complaint here and there, but it seems to have turned into more gripes, rants, complaints, rather than constructive posts, or posts sincerely seeking to understand what to do, or about site policy, etc.

Any way, it's food for thought.

Xander Henderson

22:33

@quid I may be unstable, but at least I'm at equilibrium?

Just don't perturb me.

quid

@XanderHenderson indeed better not; you might enter some chaotic trajectory.

@amWhy the thread-like questions we have might help a bit, but ultimately I think some level of these types of post will persist.

amWhy

22:48

@quid I agree that "some level of these types of questions will persist". But I think we should aim for a "lower level of these types of questions", most of which are essentially duplicates. I agree, there's no hope in eradicating them. And I suppose patterns change... there's sort of a contagion effect with complaint oriented meta questions, and perhaps also to with less self-absorbed questions on meta.

OOh, @quid. You've entered your favorite Day!! Monday!! ;D

quid

@amWhy a problem is that many users post only rarely there.

amWhy

@quid That is very true.

Xander Henderson

@quid Or, more to the point, some of the most prolific answerers have essentially zero meta participation.

quid

@amWhy indeed. I guess I'll leave now.

See you

amWhy

@quid See you!

@XanderHenderson Spot on, unless they merely lurk and upvote meta posts damning closure or deletion of PSQs.

"Ask not what math.se can do for you; ask what you can do for math.se." A message some users need to hear!

2

Rather I'd ask users to temper focusing only on their needs, but to spend time on thinking about improving math.se in general!

Any final comment, @quid? Else let that borrowed quote simmer in your dreams! :-)

quid

23:40

@amWhy I agree that it is an issue but in a way we make progress.

amWhy

@quid I hope so. Thanks, and start winding down to go to sleep. Your are hereby banned from this chat room for the next eight hours! ;D It's called "tough love" ;D Note, you can appeal your ban to seven hours only, after you provide proof you've slept at least six hours! ;P

quid

@amWhy 💙 :-)

Transcript for

$Mathematics$ Cafe and Tavern on the math.se