Discussion between Vidar S. Ramdal and Allan

Feeds

05:06

1

Q: What is a good backup strategy for macOS Photos?

I have ~30,000 photos in my library, which takes up ~90 GB disk space. My MacBook has limited hard drive size, so I'm using an external hard drive for my Photos library. The library is synced to iCloud. This means I have two full copies of my photo library - the external drive and iCloud. But I s...

Vidar S. Ramdal

True, but I would still have the iCloud copy.

Allan

What is your question here? You've already identified a backup strategy for photogs with the 3-2-1 strategy which is what you should be using. What do you mean by a "a third location...meeting the requirements of the 3-2-1? What have you done thus far and what is it about the 3-2-1 that's not meeting your needs?

Vidar S. Ramdal

@Allan - the Photos app has some quirks that make 3-2-1 difficult to achieve in a practical way, like the SQLite database file I mention in #2. Also, I don't see iCloud as a fully independent off-site backup, since changes in iCloud are synced to other devices automatically. Thus, my question is: "What is the simplest, safest way to achieve a good backup strategy for macOS Photos?"

Allan

iCloud is not a backup, it’s a synchronization service. The answer to your question is the 3-2-1 backup strategy. You have’t implemented yet. You’ve answered your own question, I’m not understanding what more you’re looking for. Also, understand, you haven’t told us what you’ve actually done, just what you heard and what you’re considering.

Vidar S. Ramdal

@Allan 1. OK, maybe mentioning 3-2-1 was a mistake. It seems there is no good way to achieve 3-2-1 with Photos.app. I have edited it out. 2. I would say iCloud is a backup for many purposes, like if my house should burn down. 3. I have tried the three options I have listed, but I have found drawbacks with all of them. Are there any other options that I haven't found?

Allan

05:06

No. 3-2-1 is your solution. You're looking for something else which is what I don't understand. Now, please understand that I am also an (amateur) photographer and the 3-2-1 strategy is exactly what I would recommend so saying you mentioning it is a mistake (and removing it from the question) is moot - I would still tell you to use the 3-2-1 strategy. What in the strategy have you implemented? What quirks are there in Photos that is preventing you from implementing it "in a practical way?"

Another question - the Photos Libary is one single file. Mine is called Photos Libary.photoslibrary. What is preventing you from copying that file to a) another drive and b) off site to a cloud service? Apple has instructions on how to do this very thing. What's the "quirk" you're running into so we can answer the question?

Vidar S. Ramdal

@Allan I want a fool-proof backup solution, as automatic as possible. Call it 3-2-1 or whatever you want. The Photos.app quirks are what I have listed as "cons": 1) - A disk cannot be used both as a photo library and a TM backup, 2) The large database file that changes on every small modification, 3) "Referenced" images are not copied to iCloud.

@Allan Your Photos Library.photoslibrary is not one single file. It is a directory under the hood. Right-click on in it Finder and select Show package contents, and you'll see. Witihn the Photos Library.photoslibrary/Database directory is a file called Photos.sqlite, which is what I mention in 2).

If you suggest a 3-2-1 strategy, then how have you implemented it? That would be a great answer to the question.

Allan

05:22

Read the article you referenced. It’s literally a recipe for how to do it. I provided you an Apple link to back up your photos library, but you keep telling me “how complex it is.” Up to now, you have yet to tell me where this failed, but instead give me vague generalizations about a quirk you can’t confirm exists.

The main problem with your question is that it’s opinionated and that’s off topic here. Asking what is best will only give you opinions based on others experience and, speaking pragmatically here, you've provided none of your own to even relate an answer to you. Questions here need to have a practical problem to solve, not an opinion.

Finally, if you’re looking for a backup strategy, that question has already been asked and answered, so it will also get tagged as a dupe. Here are just a few...

6

Q: What's a good setup to back up macOS data and restore to Linux?

Background I have an old MBP which works fine right now. I have no immediate plans to change it. But it is getting old, the discrete GPU died, and I expect it could die at any time. I would like to keep my option open to move to a Linux laptop when this machine dies. Most of the software I use...

macos backup unix filesystem migration

6

Q: What's a good setup to back up macOS data and restore to Linux?

Background I have an old MBP which works fine right now. I have no immediate plans to change it. But it is getting old, the discrete GPU died, and I expect it could die at any time. I would like to keep my option open to move to a Linux laptop when this machine dies. Most of the software I use...

macos backup unix filesystem migration

7

Q: How to backup Time Machine's backup to a cloud?

I want to make any possibility of losing files on my Mac completely obsolete. Time Machine is awesome, but saving files to single physical hard drive is, well, not safe at all. So, I guess, what I need is to back up Time Machine's backup to a cloud and make sure that my files are being stored in...

backup time-machine encryption time-capsule

4

Q: How can I backup a VirtualBox VM with TimeMachine

I've read lots of different things about using TimeMachine with VirtualBox, but I haven't been able to find a very clear answer about what an acceptable configuration is. Some folks say "include up the whole virtual disk", some say "use snapshots and include everything except the virtual disk", a...

macos time-machine virtualbox

Those are just the answers I’ve written. So, the questions for you is....what research have you done thus far? What have you tried and where did it fail? You got a full blown plan with the 3-2-1 backup plan in the article you linked to but you described nothing of what you did. How can we recommend something without knowing what you’ve already done? We can’t look over your shoulder.

Now, it’s not that I don’t want to help, but you need to help us help you. Follow that 3-2-1 plan because it’s an excellent plan. If/when you get stuck, we can clear things up and get you working. Remember, what we need are specifics and not generalities. And personally,
I don’t want to keep rewriting the same answer over and over. Please research!

Vidar S. Ramdal

05:50

@Allan I see now that I should have included and emphasized the words incremental and automatic. I fail to see how Photos.app allows me to do incremental backups of my library. Backing up the entire 90GB photo library over the internet every day is not practical. I'll rework the question.

Allan

06:02

Again...what have you researched? Here’s more instructions for backing up photos... lifewire.com/backup-photos-or-iphoto-library-2260760

next, if you’re a photographer, you should be using a proper tool like Lightroom, Photoshop, or similar. Photos is for the regular consumer. You will have far better workflow results (operationally) with a pro tool. Eg. the LR catalog only holds Meta data of the adjustments. The photos are untouched meaning backups are far easier

Vidar S. Ramdal

@Allan I've read that article (and similar ones). All of them seem to suggest taking full backups of the entire library every time. That's (almost) incompatible with using a online backup service - uploading the entire 90GB every day is not feasible.

@Allan I'm not much of a photographer, so Photoshop is overkill. Lightroom sounds interesting!

@Allan "What have you researched?" I've researched 3 approaches, listed as 1, 2, 3 in my question.

nohillside

06:53

@VidarS.Ramdal If I may chip in: which backup solution copies the whole photo library each time? TM backups incrementally, so do cloud backups like Backblaze or Arq.

Vidar S. Ramdal

09:25

@nohillside They don't transfer the entire library, only the modified files, but one of the modified files is the sqlite database file, which is huge. Photos.app modifies the database file every time you work with the library (I guess).

nohillside

09:45

I have 10'000 pictures in the library, the database subfolder is 195 MB

But if you look for incremental database backup solutions then hmm that might be a challenge. Not sure your question is about this though (at the moment it doesn't seem to be)

To put the 195 MB into perspective though: each RAW photo I import is 30+ MB, the matching JPG from the camera is 10-15MB. So I'm not too worried about the database size

Vidar S. Ramdal

12:29

@nohillside Good point! Usually, a daily incremental backup would suffice, so the overhead of the database file will perhaps be acceptable.

Transcript for

Discussion between Vidar S. Ramdal an…