Home Improvement

lsiunsuex

13:31

woah - just found a bug in apple imessages i think

if you use imessages on multiple desktops / iphones, all the messages are synced across them - ie: if you send me an imessage and i'm logged into my laptop and desktop, both of those devices will get the msg also

the boss sent me a photo last night of his new bmw and i got the photo on my home laptop and iphone - when i logged into imessages this morning at work, i got the message but not the photo

HerrBag

14:26

Ahhhh HOME laptop

Chris Cudmore

14:42

What's an iMessage?

lsiunsuex

Apple's FU to sending a text message basically

same thing as a txt msg but over data and over apple's servers, not the phone companies

Chris Cudmore

So it's different than a regular instant message in the same way a Podcast is different than an MP3

lsiunsuex

sure

Chris Cudmore

Apple must have studied Italian pasta making. Change one tiny thing and it gets a brand new name.

Chris Cudmore

16:19

Legoland Family Pass Acquired!

Chris Cudmore

19:49

Slow news day.

BMitch

Brain... mush... bla

^ that's what happens when I try to understand the openssl libcrypto api documentation... or lack thereof.

Chris Cudmore

I don't understand crypto. That's why I use my own special Rot-13 implementation.

BMitch

Double ROT13 is much stronger.

Welcome to Project Update Thursday

maple_shaft

Sorry guys... no new projects this week

wax eagle

my home repairs this week consisted of soaking a shower head in vinegar

Chris Cudmore

20:03

Pickling it?

wax eagle

@ChrisCudmore dissolving calcium deposits

our water is super hard

BMitch

That reminds me that I need to flush my hot water heater and check the pressure on my expansion tank.

wax eagle

question, would I know if I had an expansion tank? I don't think I do...

BMitch

I did repair my front door lock, graphite in a spray can is messy.

Chris Cudmore

I bought a family pass for legoland.

BMitch

20:05

An expansion tank is a couple gallon tank attached to a water line with only a single input

they are pretty obvious because most things on a water line have an input and output.

wax eagle

@BMitch gotcha

Matthew

are we PUTing yet?

BMitch

Yup, we're PUTting

Matthew

lol

wax eagle

@Matthew yes, you're up, 10' breaks left to right

Matthew

20:08

I finally took some pictures of my low voltage work, in progress

now just need to upload them :D

maple_shaft

damn onebox

Home Improvement Stack Exchange Blog: Handling the pressure with expansion tanks

tester101 on February 19, 2013

Private, older public, and some other water distribution systems may not require an expansion tank to be installed. This is because these systems may be considered “open”, since they lack pressure regulators and/or backflow preventers. Plumbing code changes intended to prevent the contamination of the public water supplies, have made backflow prevention a requirement in most current new builds. While this may be a good change for the water supply, it can be a damaging change to your plumbing system. …

THERE

wax eagle

@maple_shaft :)

Matthew

is there a free uploader for SE?

other than the one for posts

BMitch

imgur.com?

wax eagle

@Matthew you can upload them in chat with the upload button there

Matthew

20:10

doh

of course I can

so I trimmed and wrapped all the coax, cat6 and speaker lines. Now I need to terminate them into the rack

still need to wrap the AV-specific cables

BMitch

everything on SE should go through imgur.com, but you can go directly there and put up a set of photos to share together.

wax eagle

@maple_shaft yeah, I don't think I have one. will poke around, but I haven't seen one I've been all over under the house

@BMitch but then if he posts them I can't see them :(

cuz i.imgur is blocked here, but i.stack.imgur isn't :)

Matthew

I like this new guy

maple_shaft

@waxeagle Do you know how to solder copper pipes?

Matthew

seems really knowledgeable and helpful

wax eagle

20:12

@maple_shaft nope :(

BMitch

@waxeagle tell your office to stop blocking porn sites.

Chris Cudmore

wax eagle

@BMitch that'll go well :(

BMitch

@ChrisCudmore lol, we'll just say it's a ladder stabilizer bar. :)

maple_shaft

@waxeagle You will need a propane torch, a copper T piece, and a copper tube cutter

Matthew

20:14

uploading over mobile network is sloooooow

maple_shaft

wax eagle

@maple_shaft does it have to go on copper? I've got all CPVC

BMitch

@waxeagle they're installed with a threaded connection, I'm sure you can get an adapter for CPVC

wax eagle

@BMitch gotcha, not sure I really even need to add one. I'm guessing that I don't have a backflow preventer

BMitch

maple_shaft

20:17

@waxeagle if you have CPVC water pipes then please for the love of god don't take a torch to it :)

wax eagle

@maple_shaft lol wouldn't plan to :)

BMitch

@waxeagle After you haven't run the water for a while, do you get an initial surge from the sink? Do toilets or showers leak frequently?

wax eagle

<---- not complete moron

BMitch

If not, you're probably fine.

maple_shaft

well if you had copper, you put a T, then fit a female adapter and solder that to the T

wax eagle

20:18

@BMitch no leaks. maybe a very slight surge

maple_shaft

then with thread tape wrapped around the tank male end, you just screw it on tightly

wax eagle

@maple_shaft got it.

Matthew

imgur.com/a/WkISU#vNbojO2

it's missing one....

BMitch

You're probably fine, but if they swap out your water meter for a new electronic version, then pay close attention to your valves, toilets, etc.

wax eagle

@BMitch will do

Matthew

20:20

Just need to terminate the Cat6 wiring there and plug everything into the rack

maple_shaft

@Matthew wut r u doin?

BMitch

red/black wires... did you run a speaker system through the house?

Chris Cudmore

He's running tubes for the internet.

Matthew

@maple_shaft low voltage home run for remodel

@BMitch Yeah, those are speakers, 16 in all.

maple_shaft

wow

Matthew

20:21

You can see the terminals in the rack photo

maple_shaft

@Matthew you are a pretty cool guy

Matthew

lol, my wife thinks I'm a giant dork

BMitch

they looked a bit like cable jacks in the rack, I thought you were making a sports bar with 50 TV's

Matthew

@BMitch The bottom 3U of the rack: top row is coax, bottom two are speakers

the blank row will be all the remaining cat6 -- there are 16 total -- the four on the left are the source wires from my demarcation box outside

wax eagle

@Matthew how are they controlled?

Matthew

20:25

@waxeagle I don't understand your question

Chris Cudmore

Speakers. How do you turn them on/off/volume

wax eagle

@Matthew ie you've got 16 speakers throughout the house, are they on a unified sound system or what?

Matthew

There are 8 drops, each drop has 2 RG6 and 2 Cat6

Ah, the speakers.

wax eagle

@Matthew nah, that I understand :)

Matthew

Many will go un-used. I wired the ceiling in the living room for 7 channels, each is terminated in a backer-box in the attick

three wires come out behind the TV, in the wall, 4 others in a plate on the back wall

2 in backer boxes in the kitchen ceiling

They'll all my controlled by separate remotes from my Anthem MRX300

7 channels on the Anthem, 2 on a separate power amp

I should have put an in-wall transformer couple for the kitchen but I didn't

I'm only going to use 9 of the 16 pairs

for now

wax eagle

20:28

@Matthew gotcha. full house audio is on my very long term to-do list

Matthew

Yeah, mine too, but not in this house

full house audio isn't difficult if you are taking out drywall

wax eagle

@Matthew not an option for me any time soon :)

Matthew

I want to replace that ProCurve switch though

it has a fan :(

shirlock homes

20:42

Good afternoon gentlmen

Matthew

hi

shirlock homes

Question on the mult speakers: How do you balance the impedence?

BMitch

woah, howdy @shirlockhomes

Matthew

@shirlockhomes They're all separate channels

Which is why there are 16 pairs

shirlock homes

Hi Bmitch.... snow and rain here, tood day off

Matthew

20:46

If they weren't, though, you use an impedance matching control

shirlock homes

What kind of amp or whatever to drive 16 chans?

Matthew

Some amps will, I'm only powering 9 though. 7 From my MRX300, and 2 using the MRX as a preamp with a separate power amp

shirlock homes

I had to screw around with a 10 speaker system in a house. no manuals, told her to call an audio specialist. lol

Matthew

For whole-house distribution systems you would use a speaker splitter with a high-power 2-channel amp

buy, ideally, you would get multiple channel power amps

For example, the UPA-700 will drive 7 channels with excellent quality

shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/upa700

shirlock homes

I found a distribution box hidden in the ceiling above a speaker

Matthew

20:49

@shirlockhomes That's awful, but not the worst

shirlock homes

thinking of doing something similar, maybe 8 speakers indoors and out

Matthew

I worked on a system where they had twisted spakers together with wire nuts behind the drywall

shirlock homes

u found it??? lol

Matthew

Yep

shirlock homes

little DW repair later lol

Matthew

20:50

after their amp had burned out and a speaker blown

I just capped the wires in the blown speaker

shirlock homes

I got a damaged speaker right now. Celtic Vega, can't find my guy that recones them

may have to attempt it myself

Matthew

You can probably buy the cones from ebay

shirlock homes

got a little carried away in my mancave

Matthew

I bought part of my set before I Was married

shirlock homes

I can get the cones, np. putting them in takes a little talent

Matthew

20:52

I have resigned to the likely fact that I will never get to complete it

Paradigm Signature

shirlock homes

parapigm from JBL?

WOWOWOWOWOWOWO

Those were the kick ass speakers of the 70's. still worth a mint today

Matthew

paradigm.com/products/products-by-series/signature-speakers

no, Paradigm.... by Paradigm

Chris Cudmore

@Matthew I should have done the same. Because after marriage, I'll never be allowed.

Matthew

Maybe if I win the lottery

:D

shirlock homes

looked at the link, not the same as the monster paradigms

back in 72 they sold for $3000 each

Matthew

20:56

The S8's sell for about $4500 each

shirlock homes

used to go the the audio store just to listen to them... Tommy from the Who was a fav. lol

Matthew

They are among the most accurate and responsive speakers

shirlock homes

yep, I believe it. That is top drawer stuff

Matthew

The Sub2 subwoofer is $9k and it's recommended that you use a 220V supply

shirlock homes

Don't think they are still connected to JBL james B lansing

heat your house with those

Matthew

20:58

lol

9KW peak, 4.5KW continuous output

shirlock homes

I'm real happy with my Boston A100's, mixed with the Vega's. can't run them over 30% with my Denon Class A, 55 watt RMS. way too loud

9KW!!!!!!!!!!! OMG

Matthew

I like Bostons

shirlock homes

I got 4 of them, love um

Matthew

Nice and efficient

I love when people think they need 150 wpc

to run something like a Bose speaker

shirlock homes

I stack a boston and a vega on each side

ya but today 150 watt is IC driven and meaqsured is some wierd way

Matthew

21:01

Well, for most consumer amps it's a lie

shirlock homes

I bet a 25 watt RMS is still more real power

Matthew

The MRX300 I use can do 80 WPC sustained

and it's damned loud

but lets say I used Martin Logan electrostatics... well I would need more power

shirlock homes

I'm half deaf now from playing my stuff so loud all these years lol

Matthew

The sub2 needs all that power to drive 7Hz at meaningful levels

shirlock homes

never have enough power! lol

Damn, can't hear that, just feel it

crack the foundation of the house!!!

Matthew

21:04

►

shirlock homes

then you will have to ask how to fix it. lol

that's crazy stuff

Matthew

The demo at CES was amazing

they have perfectly phased the speakers in an opposing baffle so that the net at the device is zero

they set a martini glass on top of it, and the entire room is wobbling but the glass is perfectly still

shirlock homes

damn customers keep calling, don't they know I took the day off. lol

I had a 8foot X 6foot picture window in my other house, and that thing would dance. always afraid it was gonna shatter someday

I can only play my stuff the way I like it when wife not home. Dig out the vinyl and party like a rock star. lol

Chris Cudmore

21:22

My wife doesn't listen to music. She uses it as background noise.

So I'm stuck listening to music in the car.

shirlock homes

hope you got a good system in the car. lol

Chris Cudmore

Nah. No point. You can't get a good audio experience in a car no matter what. Waste of money.

shirlock homes

true, but my Bose system in my truck sounds great

have mini concerts all by myself.

must be a slow news day in the DIY comunity

Chris Cudmore

Nobody's doing anything at home.

shirlock homes

nobody want to make fun of any of the questions lately? lmao

Chris Cudmore

21:32

Not much snark worthy lately.

shirlock homes

I got a bathroom and a kitchen to tackle very soon. waiting for the special orders to come it... both are horror shows

Chris Cudmore

I'm waiting for a lottery win.

Then I'll get back to projects.

Matthew

@shirlockhomes You missed my super-exciting low voltage rack :D

shirlock homes

wish they would win the lottery too, low budget jobs

Chris Cudmore

But I've spent 35k over the past two years.

shirlock homes

21:33

I guess i did miss that one

went to florida for a couple of weeks, so missed alot

Matthew

There's also a new member who has been pretty good

Chris Cudmore

herrbag?

Matthew

yeah

Aaron

we're trying to get tile for the bathroom that doesn't cost $100 in shipping

shirlock homes

35k? A mere pitance. lololololol good man

Chris Cudmore

21:34

Well, the weeping tile and basement sealing was an unexpected 12k of that.

shirlock homes

tile is heavy stuff

ya, hear ya... wet basements are expensive to do right

Matthew

what's wet basement?

Chris Cudmore

But we got a good company to do it. PROTIP: If you feed a Russian, he'll work twice as hard.

shirlock homes

they cut a trough around the floor?

Chris Cudmore

No. External

Dig out the foundation, new weeper, Hydraulic cement and repairs, Aquablock and delta board.

shirlock homes

21:36

best way is external in a retrofit.

sounds like a good job

Aaron

I'm trying to figure out the best way to insulate the house, but it has many different issues

shirlock homes

how old a house?

Chris Cudmore

1962

Aaron

for example, dose this sort of thing make sense?

shirlock homes

conv framed or ballon?

Chris Cudmore

21:37

But we had to get it done before I refinished the basement.

Aaron

spray foam on the underside of the roofing plywood instead of on the floor of the attic

shirlock homes

looks expensive!

Matthew

When I looked at having my attic foamed it was about $1000 more than having new stuff blown in

Aaron

But you get to keep all that storage space

shirlock homes

faom is best, but most expensive

looks cool too

Chris Cudmore

21:39

I did close cell spray in the basement. It was about $1600. Conventional was about $500 cheaper.

Aaron

@shirlockhomes is it worth it to lay down batts in the attic if the exterior walls are brick - air- stud - plaster (NO insulation)?

shirlock homes

yes, certainly is.

Aaron

^semi-open wall during kitchen renovation

shirlock homes

about 70% of your heat loss is thru the attic

brick walls are prime for foam

if the plaster is coming off

Aaron

@shirlockhomes there's a company that will put holes in the mortar, blow it in from the outside, and then seal it back up

shirlock homes

21:41

put R40 or more up there

that must be high density celulose. good stuff

that may be your best bet

I've done a lot of older houses that way

Aaron

that way = ?

shirlock homes

I sub it out to guys with the high pressure equipment

blow in the walls thru holes

can do inside or outside

Aaron

inside the kitchen has an exterior wall that is tiled on the inside, so not so easy from the inside there

shirlock homes

eiyther inside or outside, doesn't matter as long as the voids get filled well

Aaron

homesulate.com/applications/brick-homes but sadly they are in dallas

Chris Cudmore

21:45

I'm double brick, no insulation. Should I bother framing out the walls when I reno?

Aaron

@shirlockhomes but you think doing the attic first is imperative?

shirlock homes

yes I do

Chris Cudmore

For insulation purposes, I mean.

shirlock homes

wall loss is a fraction of attic/roof loss

heat loss

Chris Cudmore

The attic's good.

shirlock homes

21:46

and the attic may be the easiest one to do

most bang for the buk

buck

Aaron

there's plywood nailed down across all the joists, so it's easy enough to just roll out some batts on it I suppose

and the attic tent thing

shirlock homes

tent thing?

do you use it for storage?

Aaron

the tent over the stair access

Yeah, we have a bunch of stuff up there now, it's quite a large area

shirlock homes

so it is walkable with stair access?

Aaron

You can't stand up straight in any part of it, but you can put tons of boxes up there

shirlock homes

21:49

if you want to keep the floor open, you will have to do the underside of the roof

Aaron

and that obviously increases the conditioned space of the house

and I would need to seal the gables

shirlock homes

or give up some storage area and i's sugest pulling the plywood and gain that depth for insulation

R-42 is gonna be about 2 feet deep

Aaron

Does it make sense to lay batts on only say, half the roof, and leave the rest for storage, or do you really need to do the whole thing to prevent gaps == air loss?

shirlock homes

doing half is not gonna save you half. the heat or AC is goon leak in the areas not insulated. kind of a waste, in my opinion

It idea is to make a cold area above the house

did u say u were in Texas?

Aaron

no

Washington DC

shirlock homes

21:55

it's cold there. you gotta really go all , or pull the flooring and inslulate as much as you can to the ceiling drywall. if you got 2X8's you might get R21 in there

BMitch

I wouldn't stop at a half job, it's like closing only one bedroom window.

shirlock homes

put the plywood back over the insulated ceilings

yep, exactly

Aaron

they're definitely not 2x8s

shirlock homes

2x6 max R18

don't get me wrong, R18 is better than nothing

Aaron

why can't they make stuff that insulates better in less space? it's 2013 already

BMitch

21:57

If that 2x6 is over any significant span, I'd be careful where you store things up there

shirlock homes

Foam does, but 2 to 3 times the cost

BMitch has a good point. 2X6, depending on span is not for heavy storage or walking

I was in DC a couple of weeks ago

damn GPS took us off the interstate onto Penn AVE. !!!!

Aaron

where were you going to?

shirlock homes

coming back to Maine from Fla

BMitch

and you didn't say hi? I think most of us around here owe you a beer or two.

shirlock homes

LOLOL thanks

BMitch

22:01

You went back too soon, shouldn't have stayed in FL for a few more months.

shirlock homes

we actually go to DC every year just for fun. I love all the stuff there.

next winter I'm staying there at least one month, maybe two

Aaron

shirlock homes

thinking of comming back to DC for the cherry blossoms

Aaron

shirlock homes

looks like you got some celulose already

BMitch

22:03

get a better GPS before you do that, the crowds for the cherry blossoms are crazy.

Aaron

that's in the middle of installing the bathroom vent fan

shirlock homes

it is a loose fill, maybe R5 or 6 if your lucky

Aaron

yeah, it sucks bigtime

shirlock homes

I was there for the Rally to Restore Sanity. that was crazy

stayed at the harrington hotel, one block from the Mall

Aaron

so, take out all the plywood, put in batts with vapor barrier, or just put in unfaced on top of all the plywood?

shirlock homes

22:04

old dump, but really handy to all the stuff to visit

unfaced. do not put in vapor barrier

do you have soffit vents?

Chris Cudmore

I stayed in some low-rent business suites hotel in Alexandria. Something like $120 bucks a night, 3 rooms, with kitchen.

Aaron

@shirlockhomes no, just 2 gables

shirlock homes

that is not bad at all Chris

BMitch

Vapor barrier is hard to do at that point, you could try running a sheet of plastic over/between the joists, but otherwise, the place has lasted for that long without one.

shirlock homes

did you go to the Rally?

Chris Cudmore

22:06

No, this was a business trip.

Aaron

of which one has the attic fan in it and the other has the vent from the bathroom fan going to it

Chris Cudmore

Had to pitch to the American Psych. Ass.

BMitch

How was that Ass.?

shirlock homes

we don't use a vapor barrier unless there is really good vents in attic. can cause mold with all the humidity from the house

Chris Cudmore

Smaller than you'd think.

shirlock homes

22:08

I need a shrink, give me a discount?

Chris Cudmore

Trust me. Shrinks are the least stable people I get on the help phone.

shirlock homes

lmao

Chris Cudmore

No patience whatsoever. Should I click this? This? THis? I'm going over here now? Whiy won't it work?

shirlock homes

My wonderful cousin is a shrink, i love her to death, but she is certifiable

BMitch

It seems like all the crazy people want to be a shrink, and all the crooks want to be bankers, and all the thugs want to be cops, what's up with that.

shirlock homes

22:09

ummmmmm good observation

Chris Cudmore

Hell, most tech people I know are luddites.

Late adopters.

shirlock homes

my son is the ultimate techy geek

Chris Cudmore

I'm still using XP at home.

BMitch

You upgraded to XP already?

Aaron

I've got XP at home too

Chris Cudmore

22:10

Had too. Win98 stopped booting.

shirlock homes

my son installed win 7 pro for me. naw na da na na..... lol

Aaron

Nvidia geforce 6000 for life

shirlock homes

do you have a crank start on that puter?

Chris Cudmore

Aren't we all HOITY TOITY with our newfangled Graphics!

BMitch

You can tell a good carpenter by how old his tools are, and a good techie by how long he's able to keep a computer working.

Chris Cudmore

22:12

cmd is all I need!

shirlock homes

my son interned at nvidia for 6 months. loved the work, hated the area

Aaron

I actually had to downgrade the video card, I bought a 6800 or something, and it was drawing too much power, the computer would lock up every one in a while and it took me forever to track down why

shirlock homes

ya tell me, all my tools are broken and need replacement, but i'm trying to retire

Aaron

Luckily I was able to find an AGP 6200 card at microcenter last year

I was surprised

BMitch

Ok, I think we're done PUTting...

shirlock homes

22:15

my son still has my first puter with 1meg hard drive and like 12k ram. old packard bell. he likes to show his friends and play the old DOS games on it. Think it was a 286????

BMitch

Thanks for joining this week's PUT

extended edition... since we started talking attics and insulation. :)

shirlock homes

oh PUt This.. lmao Take care all

BMitch

Project Update Thursday - 2013/02/28

2 hours ago, 2 hours 16 minutes total – 346 messages, 7 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 6 secs ago by BMitch

naa, you can still talk, I just didn't want to track the fun parts of the conversation.

shirlock homes

Ok

Chris Cudmore

See you all tommorrow.

shirlock homes

22:18

bye Chris

Niall C.

@BMitch Are you still awake?

BMitch

yuppers

Niall C.

I see we're getting more suggested edits from Mike/whatever he's calling himself: diy.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/5550

BMitch

yeah, I've been rejecting a bunch of them

might need to send him a mod message

Niall C.

But now that I think about it, there's not much you can do without the user merge tool :(

BMitch

22:24

They should have left the merge tool and just redirected the request to SE so they could review it. Maybe cause it to generate a popup that the user had to respond to on their next login.

Niall C.

BTW, I found this book useful when I was learning my way around OpenSSL.

amazon.com/Network-Security-OpenSSL-John-Viega/dp/059600270X/…

It's a little out-of-date now but still gives a good introduction to it

Aaron

If wget can't do it, I leave it for someone else to do!

BMitch

@NiallC. My problem is that I'm not doing SSL or TLS, and I don't want to store keys as individual files, my app is already doing the comm and I just want to encrypt part of the data messages, and keep keys in a local database, so I'm banging my head against the lack of API documentation.

My app includes a P2P messaging capability with an internal routing that allows messages to be bounced between a few nodes before it reaches the destination, so you don't want routing data encrypted, or decryptable by every node, you just want the embedded data to be secured from any man in the middle.

I'm pretty sure the wheel got reinvented a dozen times in my app, but it's been a fun learning experience.

Niall C.

22:39

Still think the book might be useful: Chapter 6, Symmetric Cryptography and Chapter 8, Public Key Algorithms

BMitch

might have to see if I can find it in a book store, been spending way too much time on wikipedia lately making sure I understand all the terms

@NiallC. I sent the user a private message, and there are already several comments, so at this point I'm taking the view that all future invalid requests should be deleted until he learns how to use the site. You can lead a horse to water, you can shove it's face in, but after that, the beatings will continue until moral improves.

Project Update Thursday - 2013/02/28

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