Home Improvement

Jeremy Lyons

04:27

I keep my cat box in the garage because my cats kick litter everywhere and it's the only place I don't have to sweep every day. It's also on the way to my outdoor trash can, so I can't forget to scoop it.

lsiunsuex

14:48

m.buffalonews.com/story/?story=1&sec=top

i unfortunately actually know this dumb a** - his son plays hockey with my godson, i've done PC work for him at his house and see him from time to time at my uncles house (my cousin is my godson)

wax eagle

@lsiunsuex ex athlete having trouble after retirement? no one is surprised.

lsiunsuex

had no idea he was 39

hell, i'm 33

atleast the dentist love him haha - almost all of his teeth are fake

wax eagle

@lsiunsuex that's the problem though. Hockey (and every other sport), spits out a bunch of early to mid 30s guys with no work experience and varying financial situations.

lsiunsuex

sure

he had a job at ESPN as an anchor or something and i think he lost that when all of this happened with his wife

wax eagle

@lsiunsuex yeah, the article makes it sound like him driving his porche with 3 wheels on it may have been a factor...who knew

lsiunsuex

15:04

better than the mercedes he had i guess - atleast the cayenne has some ground clearance haha

Aaron

16:09

In 2012, onetime Buffalo Sabre Matthew Barnaby was living with a former beauty queen in his Clarence home and gave her a $50,000 diamond engagement ring and a Cadillac Escalade.

He seems to have lost all three.

isn't that really 4 things? fiancee, house, ring, escalade?

lsiunsuex

and ex wife and 3 asstranged children

so 6 ?

Aaron

18:34

Of course, factions immediately sprang up in favor of '~*~sTaR tReK iNtO dArKnEsS~*~', 'xX_StAr TrEk InTo DaRkNess_Xx', and 'Star Trek lnto Darkness' (that's a lowercase 'L').

that talk page is completely redonculous

Chris Cudmore

TLDR;

lsiunsuex

nerds

maple_shaft

What makes you believe there may be faulty breakers? If this is a short circuit situation, I would expect the main breaker to open instead of the individual branch breaker. Let's not forget, breakers are there to protect the wires. If 10,000 Amps starts to flow, the main breaker should open to protect all the downstream wiring. — Tester101 10 mins ago

@Tester101 Because if 10k Amps starts to flow on a circuit, then a working 15/20 Amp breaker on that circuit will open before the Main, unless I completely misunderstand. — maple_shaft 1 min ago

Tester101

No.

Aaron

None of the individual fuse things are switched off

darn fuse things

maple_shaft

18:43

If I turn on a light and the main breaker trips, then that would be because either the main breaker is bad, or the circuit breaker is bad

Tester101

Like I said. The main will open, because it's the first to see the 10KA. It's protecting all the wiring.

maple_shaft

oh duh

im stupid

Tester101

It's a difficult concept to understand.

maple_shaft

so she probably just has a short somewhere then, you are right

Still probably better that she call an electrician though

Tester101

If it's intermittent, it's probably a short in a device that only runs occasionally.

True. Call an Electrician either way.

maple_shaft

18:45

> This tells me that you do not have an overload situation. There is a short, and/or one or more faulty breakers possibly including the main breaker.

This is still true though... just that it is unlikely to be a faulty breaker

Tester101

It could indeed be bad breakers, but just because the main trips first doesn't automatically mean that.

Let's also not forget that it's possible to overload the main, without overloading any branch circuits.

maple_shaft

@Tester101 Maybe like in an old house with 100 Amp or less main service

I find that unlikely if she has almost nothing on

Tester101

If I have 60A service with 5 20A breakers in my panel, it's very possible to draw over 60A without tripping any branch breakers.

Sometimes people add circuits without upgrading the service. This may be especially true in other countries.

Chris Cudmore

I think @tester101 is wrong. It takes time for the current to ramp up. Assume a 100A main and 15A circuits. If there is a single short on a circuit, then the 15A will pop before the 100A.

i.e. We'd never reach 100A in this scenario.

maple_shaft

@ChrisCudmore Doesnt that depend on voltage potential?

Chris Cudmore

18:51

That's 120v, always.

maple_shaft

Maybe in the civilized world

Tester101

In a short circuit, you'll reach 10KA very quickly.

Chris Cudmore

only if the short happens in an area not protected by individual breakers. i.e. between the main and the circuits.

maple_shaft

120v 0 ohms unlimited power means a lot of juice

Chris Cudmore

I'd accept both a circuit and the main going off simultaneously.

Tester101

18:53

120 Volts/0 Ohms = ?A

Chris Cudmore

maple_shaft

@ChrisCudmore lol you know what I mean

how does a circuit and main go off simultaneously?

lsiunsuex

oh come on - theres a new one now!

maple_shaft

Shroedingers Breaker

It is both on and off at the same time

Tester101

It depends on the breakers.

Chris Cudmore

18:55

We're dealing with physical devices here. Theory doesn't always apply perfectly.

If we juiced 10kA in there, I think we'd blow more than just one breaker.

maple_shaft

@ChrisCudmore I elect you to test this theory when you get home

report back with your results

BMitch

@ChrisCudmore That's a nice looking glory hole you've got there.

daviswiki.org/Morning_Glory_Spillway

Aaron

they really called that a glory hole?

2

Chris Cudmore

The test has been done. Many times. We mis-wire a plug or outlet, creating a short. The circuit breaker flips, not the main.

It's a DIY rite of passage.

lsiunsuex

should put that in a 007 movie - he can escape through that in some crazy car leads to running away, jump into the lake / puts on air mask and travels the length of the pipe to come out somewhere else scene

Tester101

19:03

Most residential breakers are rated for 10,000 A, their set to trip at lower currents.

BMitch

@Aaron Pro tip: don't confuse your glory holes.

In the spirit of WTF:

Tester101

10 kA

wax eagle

@BMitch that could easily be my cousin if he was a few pounds lighter...and played bagpipes

BMitch

lol

maple_shaft

@Tester101 Can you explain to me what that means where they show 1 wire Aluminum or Copper and two wires Copper... what does that mean anyway?

Chris Cudmore

19:10

@Tester101 Ok, but seeing as we're dividing by zero, it could be 100kA

Tester101

@ChrisCudmore Right. It just depends on which breaker reacts first.

I'm just saying that just because a main reacted first, doesn't necessarily mean one or the other is bad.

Chris Cudmore

see: "The test has been done. Many times. We mis-wire a plug or outlet, creating a short. The circuit breaker flips, not the main.
It's a DIY rite of passage."

Tester101

@maple_shaft Not sure.

maple_shaft

@ChrisCudmore I love when you are testing which wires are which in multi switch situations, power is on for convenience... accidentally brush the hot wire on the side of the metal box... POP!

first time I did that I scared myself ****less

Chris Cudmore

@maple_shaft Good Times!

But the main never blows.

maple_shaft

19:16

@ChrisCudmore I have never blown the main in my life...

ever

and I used to live in a 100A service house

Chris Cudmore

The only practical way I can think of is loading all individual circuits to 100%, OR having a short in the panel itself.

maple_shaft

had the A/C running, electric clothes dryer, 2 TV's, hair dryer and lights

never tripped

A/C and clothes dryer is almost 60 Amps by themselves

probably could have tripped it if I started vacuuming at the same time

Tester101

breakers have a delay built in; so they don't trip every time a motor starts, the breaker with the shorter delay will trip first.

Chris Cudmore

Is that delay overridden at some current?

It's an electro-mechanical device, so if you pump enough through it, it will blow, slow-blow or not.

Tester101

Not sure. I'm going to say that the delay is so short, that it doesn't have to be.

Chris Cudmore

19:23

It's not electronic. It's not like theres a timer in there.

maple_shaft

Electricity travels at the speed of light...

Chris Cudmore

Actually, it doesn't

maple_shaft

breakers are restricted in speed by the laws of mechanical physics

that probably explains the delay

and why breakers are rated for 10kA

Chris Cudmore

Speed of electricity

The word "electricity" refers generally to the movement of electrons (or other charge carriers) through a conductor in the presence of potential and an electric field. The "speed" of this flow has multiple meanings. In everyday electronics, the signals or energy travel quickly, as electromagnetic waves, while the electrons themselves move slowly. Electromagnetic waves The speed at which energy or signals travel down a cable is actually the speed of the electromagnetic wave, not the movement of electrons. Electromagnetic wave propagation is fast and depends on the dielectric constant of ...

I assume that 10k rating is the max it can deal with without damaging the breaker.

maple_shaft

> insulation, so that in an unshielded copper conductor ranges 95 to 97% that of the speed of light, while in a typical coaxial cable it is about 66% of the speed of light.[1]

Tester101

19:27

@ChrisCudmore That's in theory. In practice, it's the speed of light. ;P

maple_shaft

Pffft... coax cable only travels 66% the speed of light... OUT OF THE WAY GRANDMA!!!

Chris Cudmore

@maple_shaft Then why is Cable faster than DSL?

wax eagle

@ChrisCudmore throughput?

sure the electrons move faster, but if fewer of them are moving at once it takes more time to transfer data

Chris Cudmore

I was just kidding there. It's to do with sheilding, S/N ratios etc.

Speed of electron transfer has nothing to do with it.

Tester101

@ChrisCudmore When you're creating a short, it's more than likely you're only shorting half the circuit (hot to neutral/ground). That is why you see the branch breaker consistently trip first. Short hot to hot, and see what happens.

Holy crap! It's almost time for PUT!

wax eagle

19:48

does sucking more water out of my basement count as a project :(

Tester101

Maybe, depends on how you did it.

Installing a sump is a good project.

Chris Cudmore

@Tester101 OooH! Now I have a project!

wax eagle

@Tester101 not yet. I'm more likely to go with a french drain by the base of the foundation before a sump in this spot

BMitch

Welcome to Project Update Thursday

lsiunsuex

20:04

finally upgraded my pc at work to windows 8! or is that off topic for PUT! :)

Chris Cudmore

Is that really an upgrade?

lsiunsuex

i didnt consider it to be, no haha

BMitch

I don't have much that's on topic for PUT, and it seems dead, so go off topic I say. :)

Chris Cudmore

If they left the taskbar and start menu, I'd have no complaints.

BMitch

I loaded dd-wrt on a new router.

Chris Cudmore

20:05

Also, multiple windows. I'm a multi window kind of guy.

lsiunsuex

IF, and thats a damn big IF, we roll win8 to the entire office (150+ stations), it'll be with a start menu hack we found / are using

maple_shaft

Does windows 8 have multi desktops?

Chris Cudmore

No, it's more like windows 3.1

maple_shaft

-_-

geez

Chris Cudmore

But if you have multiple screens, you can have two programs open at once.

lsiunsuex

20:07

no, i dont think it has virtual desktops (not like os x or linux)

Chris Cudmore

Everything is fullscreen.

BMitch

I also assembled a cat scratching post, watched a landscaping crew remove an old fence, and shoveled some snow.

Chris Cudmore

No Cascade/tile apps to do several things at once.

maple_shaft

I already can have two programs open on two screens

and Ubuntu has had multi desktops per user for like ... ever

Chris Cudmore

I had a desktop switcher from the XP Powertools.

BMitch

20:08

@ChrisCudmore I think it should be called "MS Window 8" (no s)

Chris Cudmore

Although, I've never really found multiple desktops to be that useful.

My desktop is always covered up with windows doing stuff. I'm a start menu/taskbar person.

BMitch

One desktop for email, chat, todo list. Second desktop for internet browsing, 3rd for programming, 4th for client work.

maple_shaft

@ChrisCudmore I never found their archaic batch scripting to be that useful either but here we are in 2013...

Chris Cudmore

One monitor for email/msdn/RTFMs/Specs, and one for work.

Aaron

I finally got a BX cable cutting tools so I can re-hook up this one BX cable in which the conductors got bent off due to repeated abuse

This should be interesting

lsiunsuex

20:12

my only PUT thing to say is every week we get closer to spring is another week closer to closing in the pizza room, or the "pizzaria" which it has officially been dubbed

BMitch

Oh, and my last bit of slightly on topic news is that I survived a year on my HOA board without burning the place to the ground, not that I didn't try.

Aaron

Is there an easy way to splice a cable that has gotten too short without going through the whole j-box routine?

BMitch

@lsiunsuex It was nearly spring here yesterday

Chris Cudmore

@BMitch Obviously you're not trying hard enough.

lsiunsuex

@BMitch here also - high 60's - today, feels like i'm in the windy city

Chris Cudmore

20:13

We had 14 degrees yesterday. I barbequed steaks in celebration.

BMitch

@ChrisCudmore one place had a car drive into the gas meter, another had a space heater light up the basement (flames out the window), it's getting harder and harder to make these look like accidents.

Tester101

Canadians sure do like the cold! When it's 14 degrees, I go inside.

lsiunsuex

speaking of fires

autoblog.com/2013/01/29/…

BMitch

woah, there's a new gravatar, welcome @r0ast3d

Chris Cudmore

I'd try blaspheme, and see if you can get the place struck by lightning.

Matthew PK

20:15

I got all my cat6 and RG6 wires sheathed, but not yet into the rack

I got the cable installed to string my a nice new RG11 cable from the pole

BMitch

@lsiunsuex Winner of the editorial metaphor contest: "The resulting carnage ripped the little Civic open like can of Pabst at a frat party."

Aaron

speaking of car wrecks:

wax eagle

@Aaron jaws of life?

BMitch

Woah!. 4wd doesn't help when the car is in 2 pieces

wax eagle

or was that from the actual wreck?

Chris Cudmore

20:20

@BMitch Sure it does. It means that both pieces can be independently powered.

Tester101

Wait... are the brake lights still on?

Aaron

@Tester101 in the A4 (which I have as well) the battery is in the trunk

@waxeagle I think the actual wreck, but I am not sure

jalopnik.com/5979459/…

BMitch

@Aaron Can we try to cut yours in half?

lsiunsuex

its in the back on a prius also - good luck getting the trunk open when its dead and theres no key lock on the trunk (a*****es)

Chris Cudmore

... meaning someone coming at a high rate of speed ...

Aaron

20:22

@lsiunsuex I had the same experience in a volvo S40, needed to layt down the rear seats, crawl in there, and pop the emergency escape hatch

Chris Cudmore

You have no idea how much I hate "rate of speed"

Aaron

@BMitch that's a negative, ghostrider

lsiunsuex

@Aaron had to do that twice now

Aaron

@r0ast3d we actually do talk about home improvement stuff in here, just in the middle of winter nobody really wants to do any

Tester101

Compressor cart 1.0

If I find it useful, I'll probably build a nicer version.

lsiunsuex

20:27

was gonna build a scissor lift out of 2x4's to help hang drywall on ceilings in the house but then i figured i'd spend more $$$ on 2x4s and wheels than to give it to a friend to force him to help me

r0ast3d

Howdy All! We are getting a new home/ first time home owner- and we were wondering if we should epoxy coat the garage floor - is it worth it ?

Tester101

Just after building it, I charged the tank and carried just the compressor outside to fill my tires. So it's not looking like it's going to be very useful.

wax eagle

@Tester101 how big is that compressor?

Tester101

@r0ast3d It depends on where you live, and what you plan to do in the garage.

Chris Cudmore

Not unless you intend on spending a whole lot of time in there. If you're using it to park the car and store the lawnmower then don't bother.

Aaron

20:30

@r0ast3d what size garage and what kind of stuff are you going to do in there?

Tester101

@waxeagle 3 gal. I think

r0ast3d

@te

@Tester101 Not much in the garage - we live in Texas

Aaron

@r0ast3d like if you're going to change oil frequently etc, then yes, but for just parking cars and storing stuff, probably not

r0ast3d

@Aaron ty

Tester101

If you live in an area with snow in the winter, and they use salt on the roads, and you're parking in the garage. Then it's worth it.

r0ast3d

20:32

@Tester101 I have never seen snow except maybe once in 2007 :-)

Tester101

Also, if you are changing oil, and doing other messy vehicle maintenance.

Chris Cudmore

... Unless of course, you have extra money laying around then by all means do it. But most of us can find other home improvements to spend it on.

But it's a low return improvement.

Tester101

Aside from that. It looks nice. If that's what you're in to.

r0ast3d

@ChrisCudmore & @Tester101 ty :-)

Chris Cudmore

I'd love to get mine done, but I can't justify the expense.

I hear a tim hortons calling me.

Aaron

20:34

However, garage storage cabinets are a great idea

r0ast3d

@Aaron I would do cabinets some day when I get more money

Tester101

@ChrisCudmore Rust-OleumEpoxy Garage Floor Coating Kit ~$100.00 for 2 1/2 car garage, at Home Depot.

r0ast3d

@Tester101 that is exactly what we looked at , that didnt seem too expensive

Tester101

500 sqft.

Chris Cudmore

I really don't like wet work. I'd have someone do it.

r0ast3d

20:43

as a newbie to home owning / here in texas , any tips for home maintenance that we have to do before we enter the home ? Pls advice.

BMitch

@r0ast3d If you're thinking of repainting or changing the flooring, do it now before you move all your furniture in.

maple_shaft

@r0ast3d In fact... not only what @BMitch says, but if you intend on doing any major remodeling relatively soon, then do it NOW before you move in. It is so much easier to remodel in a house that is empty

BMitch

other than what @maple_shaft says, I'd hold off until you've lived there for a few months before planning new projects, the house will pick a few for you by then.

wax eagle

@r0ast3d know where your main water shut off is

maple_shaft

@r0ast3d Also know how to adjust your water pressure, and water temperature at the water heater

often you move in and find these set WAY TOO HIGH

Save money for window dressings, blinds, and curtains...

r0ast3d

20:56

awesome :-) ty all

BMitch

I'd also recommend new door locks

maple_shaft

measure for any new appliances that you will need to buy... then measure a second time to make sure you got it right!

r0ast3d

@maple_shaft how do I save money on windo dressings / blinds curtains ?

maple_shaft

remember... fridges bow in the middle, they are always a little wider than advertised

wax eagle

@BMitch yes, definitely this

maple_shaft

20:57

@r0ast3d DIY :)

BMitch

I'm going to give the rekeyable version a try next time I swap mine out, buy several individual knobs and deadbolts, rekey them all to the same key and have a few keys to change them out for when people house sit, etc.

r0ast3d

@BMitch the new door locks for the re-keyable version ?

maple_shaft

Yes... definitely change the locks! My father in law had the previous owner try to enter his home a couple weeks after he bought it O_o

r0ast3d

@maple_shaft blinds DIY - when I do that I would follow the flintstones pattern naturally

wax eagle

@maple_shaft we were only given 2 keys and they only worked on about half the locks

r0ast3d

20:59

@maple_shaft this is a new one tho

maple_shaft

@r0ast3d Oh... new construction, you have nothing to worry about then! :)

@r0ast3d Make sure that you have all your home warranty contractors on speed dial... your builder should have given you a list

BMitch

New construction isn't as much an issue, I've moved in places that had renters, so who knows who had the keys before. I'm now a fan of these: homedepot.com/…

r0ast3d

@maple_shaft thats a good tip to save all the home warranty numbers ..

maple_shaft

@r0ast3d When you call them with a problem, just tell them it is a home warranty for new construction then give them the address, they will bill the builder directly

I just built a house so thats how I know

BMitch

buy 2 dead bolts and 2 knobs for front and back door, and you have 4 possible keys to rekey all your locks to, and easily change when needed.

r0ast3d

21:03

@maple_shaft and @B

maple_shaft

@r0ast3d ALSO... new construction... check for nail pops in the drywall and tape them with blue painters tape. The builder should come and do a quality walkthrough before you have lived there a year, and they will fix anything you find like that

Aaron

Get that system for the garage

container store/elfa track

maple_shaft

@r0ast3d I g2g... message me with any questions you have on new construction...

later!

BMitch

Not just nail pops, but caulking and paint, check inside of closets over the door, popular spot to miss. I'd also check every door and window to be sure it's level and plumb.

Here are a few questions that may help you @r0ast3d:

4

Q: What should be on my pre-purchase house self-inspection checklist?

I’m looking at several homes and may purchase one, but realized that I’m probably missing important details when trying to identify potential money-pits. I have a simple checklist so I can save the time and money of hiring an inspector if there are obvious issues. I’ve filtered out a couple of op...

17

Q: What are the most important things to check/do after buying a home?

We are in the process of purchasing a home that is over 20 years old. What are some of the most important things we should check/patch/do right away to make sure the home is running correctly and efficiently? We live in Canada, so keep in mind that winter is (always!) around the corner.

repair safety preparation

4

Q: When buying an older home that has recently been renovated, what should I look for in the home inspection?

I'm in the process of buying a house built in the mid 80's. It was foreclosed about a year ago and has since undergone a large number of renovations (roof, HVAC, windows, doors, plumbing, etc). What are some specific things I should look for when doing an inspection on a house that has been fli...

inspection new-home

r0ast3d

21:26

@BMitch and @maple_shaft thank you veryyy mucchhh! :-)

BMitch

No prob, it's nice to actually talk about home improvement around here from time to time. :)

BMitch

22:00

Thanks for joining this week's PUT

Project Update Thursday - 2013/01/31

2 hours ago, 2 hours 1 minute total – 137 messages, 9 users, 3 stars

Bookmarked 5 secs ago by BMitch

Project Update Thursday - 2013/01/31

Transcript for