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@TheEvilGreebo I thought I'd capture your rep in case you miss this significant moment
01:00
A few laughs to end the weekend:
 
1 hour later…
02:10
Those are awesome
 
10 hours later…
12:27
Is this question too localized, or a good resource?
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Q: How do I put together an Avid Outdoor Gazebo / Sun Shade

Dusty JI've lost the instructions to my Avid Outdoor Gazebo / Sun Shade, Model #1083. Avid has gone out of business, and the instructions are not available anywhere on the internet (though there are many questions on several other question-related sites).

12:50
@Tester101 I thought it was a overly localized, just waiting for others to cast a vote or two
13:14
Shop for me?
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Q: Where can I find parts to rebuild a garden faucet?

SkuddI recently bought a house that was built in 1978, and it has a couple of garden faucets. These are not frost-free faucets, and that's not a huge concern for me because the house is located just south of Houston, TX. What does concern me is that the one faucet needs some attention. The problems a...

I don't think so. It's a "How do I fix this" question, but it's phrased to look like a shopping question. I'll edit it.
I agree, it's a good question that's phrased poorly. Thanks for cleaning it up Chris.
It wasn't that bad a clean up.
I've noticed that we do seem to attract questions that are oriented to a specific task, when really, the question should be more general to the entire job. This question really should be the most general - What should I do about this leaky faucet.
@ChrisCudmore Don't we already have quite a few "What should I do about this leaky faucet" questions?
13:35
@Tester101 I don't see an exact dup. Various "how do I get this apart, unscrewed" but not "how do I repair it".
And he does talk about the unique difficulties in his situation
 
3 hours later…
16:34
Hey all
quiet today
17:04
@BMitch I see your 'few laughs' and provide 231 forum pages of the same: johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=71950
17:24
those are depressing
so speaking of tile lay outs
we've got 8x10 tiles and a set of 12x12 mosaics which can be cut down
There's a lot of really bad drains. Other than pre-measuring so a drain hits a corner, how else are you supposed to handle a drain?
with 3 strips every 2 inches in the mosaic
@TheEvilGreebo The mosiacs look best in strips of about 2 inches.
(IMO) Anything else gets to be visual overkill.
well we were planning on big tiles up to about shoulder height
then 6" of mosaic
then 1 tile
then 2" of mosaic
and 1 tile to the ceiling
6" of mosaic seems excessive to me.
17:27
we've laid it out on the floor and like the look
Are you certain that the shower is absolutely and completely square? as in, will you end up with slivers of tile anywhere if you do that?
I'm with Karl.
@KarlKatzke it will be when I'm done - I'm framing it
No. It's not absolutely and completely square.
The question is, is it within one grout-line of square.
Yeah, that's one of the problems with your "one tile to the ceiling" plan.
17:28
I'm listening
You always need to plan for a little bit of slop so that you don't end up with slivers.
well the mosaic having such narrow strips my plan was to use it for whatever play I need
Even though I'm against 6" of mosaic, my wife has many things to say about my eye for design. So take everything I say with a grain of salt.
putting a bannister back up on the wall that's already cut to size where the first holes were in the wrong place is really a bitch
Yeah, I'm really against 6" strips of mosaic because I honestly think it is "overdoing" things. They're accents because they should be accents, not large enough to almost be field tiles.
17:30
anyway - the 8x10 tiles will be offset by half on each row
@KarlKatzke I've found a good way to deal with this is to split a tile on the top and bottom. It looks deliberate and nobody will know if the top tile is 1/2" wider than the bottom tile.
no putzing around with 1/3...
@MatthewPK I completely agree. That's one of the things that I've learned over the last few showers. :)
so I am thinking the row between the two accent stripes should continue the offset pattern
@KarlKatzke Same with sides, if needed. People will notice if your grout line diverges from the corner.
17:32
@MatthewPK Yeah -- being able to 'wrap' a corner is one of the signs of a well done tile job IMO.
@KarlKatzke Easier done on intentionally staggered tiles, because you can't follow a straight line and watch it diverge. In a non-square install, staggered joints cover up a lot.
the house my cousin is buying - the basement bathroom
that corner could have been a bit better...
@TheEvilGreebo I don't like the way there's a narrow strip of tile in the field corner
tile-setter should have split the tile
its balanced
but you can tell it's an amateur job because they started with a full tile at the outer side
17:34
So they used bullnose on the right but not on the left?
it's balance at the corner, but should be balanced with the outer edge
left abuts the door
Pic of shower that I did earlier this year with a friend...
Oops.
It was straight on my computer. :-P
@KarlKatzke That's a lot of stone to lay without doing the ceiling
also, you may have a problem with the spray and the mixing valve on the ceiling
why is the left wall un-tiles?
17:36
Hehehehe
and why did you glue the bucket to the wall?
is this Fred Astaire's house?
@MatthewPK Don't leave me and extra quickset repair mortar hanging around together.
I get bored easily, OK?
when you click it, its upright
ah you fixed it
Did you tile the ceiling, Karl?
did you run out of spacers in one spot?
17:39
We'd removed the spacers from the stuff we'd set previous days -- that shower took a week to set with all those little tiles.
@MatthewPK No, we didn't. Since the ceiling is over 8" high and he's using a waterfall showerhead, we didn't see any need to. It is mold-resistant drywall with Kilz though.
hmmmm
@KarlKatzke I've always though a tiled ceiling really completed a stone shower... maybe I'm biased.
17:42
@MatthewPK I agree, but it takes some materials and knowledge that we didn't really have at the time. Setting a ceiling with a bunch of little subway tiles and non-rapid-set thinset is ... difficult. We had enough problems on the underside tops of the niches.
The niches, by the way, were about half a week's worth of work on their own.
@Aaron I have no idea what's going on there.
@ChrisCudmore Besides stupidity?
Is that a person attaching the oscil blade incorrectly?
I don't get it.
Instead of aligning all the holes in the tool blade with the multi-tool, they've just attached the outer halves
@TheEvilGreebo Note in the picture that I posted that where I stopped that day around the top was where I needed to "build up" thinset underneath the 2nd round of accent.
17:53
@KarlKatzke Did you slope the niche surfaces?
Few things annoy me more than when shower surfaces collect water
@MatthewPK You bet we sloped the niche surfaces.
And the curb surface, but we hadn't done that yet as of this picture.
For those little tiles, you didn't just get the stuff on mesh backing?
2x3 subway tiles? No, they don't come on mesh backing.
actually, I guess they're 1.5" by 3"
or maybe 2x4? I can't remember. It's been almost six months since we did that.
rough-edge subway tiles are more forgiving though if your lines are imperfect
pages back through notes ... oh, 2x5"
17:56
no, the accent strip around eye level or whatever
@MatthewPK These were filled and honed travertine.
Oh, yeah, those were on mesh backing. For the most part. We had to swap out a bunch for broken ones and bad cuts (glass tends to crack or spall when you hit it with a tile saw)
@KarlKatzke different thicknesses?
They were still thinner than the field tiles, so we had to build up thinset underneath them, let it harden, and then apply the tile with the required amount of thinset over the built up area.
do you have a finished shot?
@KarlKatzke ok that explains why there are some spacers inside those
17:59
@TheEvilGreebo Lay your field tiles and your accents next to one another ... make sure the tiles are the same thickness. In our case, the Travertine was 3/8" on average but the glass was 1/4" at most.
@TheEvilGreebo Not handy. The guy whose shower it is has the finished shots. My phone was generally in the radio at the time. He sucks at setting tile; I'm a perfectionist and loved working with the stone so I was doing a better job at the detail work in the niches than he was.
we were doing the math, our 8x10 tiles are actually exactly 8x10 when you add a 1/8 grout line on two sides which is perfect - we're gonna bring the tile out exactly 40" and finish with lowes.com/…
@TheEvilGreebo Oh, neat. I want to see that when it's finished. Although one thing I'm planning on doing is bringing out the tile in my bathrooms about a foot past the shower, because I always seem to end up with water spraying out past the curtain and getting the baseboard groaty.
our tub is 36" so that'll bring us out 4" past the edge - that plus a splashguard (for now- door later) should cover us for water
I deny it to @Tester101 but we do plan to take TONS of pics
nod always good to take tons of pics
I don't think it would look bad to have 1/8" difference for the glass wrap around vs the field
18:04
@Aaron If you've ever seen it in real life, it looks really bad.
It's worth the time to build up the area for the accents; I use a scrap tile as a "jig" and just make a 1/8" deep cut in it, apply some thinset to the wall, and scrape it off with the "jig"
our main tile is 1/4" thick
our accent is .3" thick
but I figure with our main tile being 8x10 we'll be back-buttering them so thickness wise should work out
Yeah, that sounds like it'll work out OK. Most porcelain and natural stone comes 3/8" thick ... that extra 1/8" really makes a difference.
thinking about the tub framing
thinking of making the cripple walls 12" oc instead of 16. Overkill?
(knee walls? - whatever you wanna call em)
Probably not overkill. Those walls tend to be wobbly. On slab or on wood structure? I can't remember.
wood - 2nd floor bath
18:13
Overuse the screws and make sure it's sunk into structure on the bottom side.
i'll be pulling up the subfloor for much of the bath (72 years of water soaking) - so may as well do the whole room in 3/4" osb was my thinking
might even buff up the beams for extra support
i have to reinforce the structure under the toilet. The existing 2x10 is missing about 6" ... toilet flange right there
nod But the OSB will pull apart if someone falls hard against the knee wall. You'll need to have at least one or two of the screws holding the knee wall at the bottom sunk into structure.
i don't have a pic handy
sorry to be clear this is an alcove install
the tub has an apron for the front
Ohhhhhhh
i'm talking about the support for the tub edges on the other 3 sides
18:16
Yeah, sorry, I missed what you were talking about.
i didn't want to just nail a 2x4 into the studs, i wanted some support under them
I thought you were talking about a knee wall between a toilet and the shower or something.
sorry my bad
no i'm thinking a 2x4 "rim" around the alcove with 2x4 standing flush against the wall underneath the rim for support
I wouldn't worry too much about the alcove install. Fiberglass tub, though, right?
18:17
Same difference ... just make sure you support the bottom of the tub, even if the mfg doesn't spec it.
That's actually the more critical area, and if you do that then you don't need to worry about the weight at the edge of the tub.
looking at the side and end views (p5 top) not sure how I would support the underside
other than really solid subfloor structure
interesting - the leveling stringer is indicated as "not for support"
Yeah, it looks like it's got feet pre-installed on it.
so the weight rests underside
18:21
You can shim the feet if you need to but it doesn't look like you need to.
definitely gonna sister the joists then
*Or should need to.
Yeah.
"The rim of the bath must not support weight."
what would one use as foundation base?
Generally dry/deck mud.
nvm i see it
While not a necessity, the use of a foundation base consisting of
cement, mortar, or grout will help provide a solid and secure installation.
18:24
Yeah, that's the step I wouldn't skip.
i can't visualize how to do that step
oh i see
wow, 2" of mortar...
I've seen two ways ... one is to plunk down the deck mud, then plunk the bath tub into it to leave an imprint and then take the tub away until the mud hardens.
The other way is considered cheating, but you basically make plywood 'ribs' for the bottom of the tub every 3" or so, perfectly formatted to the shape of the bottom of the tub at that spot, and glue 'em in place.
why take the tub away?
Not to say those are the right ways to do it, but those are the two ways I've seen it done, the latter where the floor wouldn't support the tub+water+mud weight.
'Cuz the mud needs air to dry.
oic
sounds pretty straight forward
18:27
Or at least it'll dry faster if it's left open.
Yeah, not difficult. Deck mud is basically wet sand with a bunch of portland mud. It barely moves on it's own.
It has the consistency and movement properties of good sandcastle sand, but dries to a hard surface.
or rather a solid hardness.
(sorry, distracted slightly, trying to solve a problem with our clustered filesystem while I'm in here. )
i should be working but I really don't have anything urgent to do ;)
I wish I didn't have anything urgent to do
so i i make sure the tub stringers and apron panel will line up to make the tub level, check the fit, pull the tub, mix and slap the mud in the footprint area, put the tub back in... do I put weight in the tub to set it in place?
then remove the tub again, let mud dry
and work on drywall while the mud dries
(or green-board - just to set off some alarm bells ;) )
You should probably press down on the bottom of the tub and make sure that it's set into the deck mud, and you might want to build a "containment area" for the deck mud outside of the footprint of the tub out of 2x4s set up so if you made it a little runny it doesn't move after you're done with it ... but yeah, you're basically stamping the bottom of the tub into a piece of sidewalk.
Just make sure before you pull the tub back out that it's set all the way down on the 1x4s
what about using foam instead of mud?
18:33
Foam deteriorates, I think...
for insulation
Plus you don't want it sticking to the bottom of the tub.
i'm thinking in this case it would be spray in foam, set tub and leave it
whats wrong w/ foam touching the tub?
Yeah, but in my experience foam compresses. You want something non-compressing here because if it compresses you will eventually crack the acrylic tub
You want zero movement whatsoever under that tub.
18:35
Good idea, though, I never would've thought of that.
i could swear I saw Mike Holmes do it sometime
It'd certainly be an easier application.
Mike Holmes spray foams everything he wants sealed. I swear that if you got a peek in his daughter's panties, all you'd see is spray foam.
hahaha
you know that gives me a thought tho
a couple cans of that in the sides of the soaker tub...
once the mortar bed is ready, spray in the foam (not too full of course), set the tub, sit in it, let the foam set up... insulated tub
mind you this thought is coming from someone SICK AND TIRED of sitting down in a cold cast iron tub
i expect the acrylic will be warmer anyway
Acrylic tubs won't be cold like that ... yeah.
plus the walls will be insulated for a change
right now the back of the tub is on an uninsulated outside wall
18:39
That's gonna freeze your jumblies in the wintertime.
jumblies were ok, but the back... OMG the back was ice
Makes baths kinda short too with the cold coming in through the tub and chilling the water.
exactly and just when you want them the longest
i just want to get started, but we aren't starting till sat after next
I know the feeling about wanting to get started. I've been sick for four weeks with strep/bronchitis/something.
ew
get outta here, you might be catching! ;)
talking about visual overkill...
18:47
My girlfriend caught it too... but we basically haven't gotten anything done for three weeks now when the weather's perfect to be outside.
Oh, yeah, no kidding. I hate that trend.
kinda like that one
It's OK, I could see doing something like that with pebble mosiacs.
2 accent strips - weird orientation tho
See, IMO, those bands of accent are too thick.
It's OK, it just looks strange to me.
19:01
what's wrong with that one?
(besides the URL having 'kitchen' in it)
visually overwhelming
plus the tile totally doesn't match the outside view
Yeah, it's like the paisley wallpaper in the master bath I'm gutting. I couldn't look at that every morning.
I dunno, I think there's enough white in it
Regarding reinforcing the floor...
the tub will be in the corner of the house. obviously teh outside wall will carry loads down
but there won't be any support under the inner corner of the tub other than the joists themselves
i cannot sister the joists their entire lengths as that goes into another room
Can you sister them from the outside of the house to the top plate of another wall?
19:14
no
thats what I mean by "entire lengths" sorry
the left hand bath wall is not load bearing and has nothing under it and the next load bearing wall is a good 5' more feet away
Hmmm. That gets out of "DIY" space and into "consult a structural engineer" territory.
well the space supports a tub now... i'm moving the long wall of the tub closer to the outside wall
i mean before the tub was only supported on 1 edge by a full height wall, now it'll be on 2 edges
well .. kinda ;)
is there a water capacity diff between the tubs?
the top and right walls are exterior
the black wall crossing the before is the existing bathroom wall - we're lengthening it
@waxeagle old was 30", new is 36" - old was cast-iron, new is acrylic - and i know the water diff is gonna be significant
I think his worry is less the water capacity difference and more the weight of the tile and the deterioration of the former floor and joists due to plumbing leaks.
What floor material is the next room over?
Carpet?
19:20
carpet over hardwood
Do you need to preserve the hardwood?
Here's my thinking ... pull the flooring in the next room at least until you get to the place where there's a wall below that can be load-bearing. Then sister the joists with a full run from that wall to the edge of the house.
Glue & screw the sistered joists. You only really need to do it for two joists.
that's not impossible - we plan to pull that carpet anyway - but hate to harm the flooring if I don't have to
If you need to preserve the hardwood, you can cut it with a circular saw and re-weave it.
Or you can just pull up the entire two rows of hardwood... you'll lose one full row of it, but you might be able to start at the outside wall
Which is likely face nailed anyway underneath the trim
Or you can just pull all the hardwood and replace it with 3/4 ply or advantech.
hmm
i have a potentially better solution
we have ceiling repairs in the kitchen to do underneath anyway
i think i'll have better luck selling the mrs. on opening the kit ceiling
we have hopes of preserving that hardwood and would rather not deliberately damage it
Either way, the sistered joists need to be supported from one load-bearing wall to the other ... you can't just sister the joists halfway because you end up moving the point where it'll bow/crack to the end of the sistered piece.
Yeah, that's a better option, but I wasn't sure that was open. ;)
It'd never fly in my house.
19:30
well the entire kitchen is on our list of "to trash and burn" projects
the bathroom just took priority because it started raining in the kitchen when flushing
4
i pulled the toilet, replaced the ring, it was fine for a while but then it started again
and the floor around the toilet is really soft - so I figure the movement of the toilet broke the seal
19:42
Yeah, it sounds like you're going to have an open ceiling kitchen for a little while.
@KarlKatzke hey, exposed beams are all the rage these days right?
Izzactly.
a while
though one small issue - a soffit holding lighting - right where the joists are
Depends on what the inside of the soffit looks like. Too many ways to build them for you to know what kind of problem it'll be to make plans.
i've looked inside
its already got a hole in it
its hiding finished wall space
well she's taking the idea well
19:56
OK... I guess my point was, if you remove the soffit using a sawzall, and just remove the lighting as you go and cap it off, will anything else fall off the wall?
probably not
'cuz if I tried to remove the soffits in my kitchen to do something similar, the cabinets would come with them.
its a stupid arrangement
Then you're good to go. You just get the fun of putting the soffit back together or you get to make it a less stupid arrangement.
wall cabinets have soffit over them, right? but the soffit extends another 8" out for pot lighting over the counter
19:59
That is kinda stupid.
the goal was to add lighting, I'm sure
only other light in kitchen is a chandelier that hangs too low to be useful
nod but there's so many better ways to do it besides pot lights in a soffit extension.
yeah well when we redo the kitchen there will be undercabinet lighting
20:17
1
Q: How does Underfloor Heating get the right temperature water via a Thermal Store?

MattHI am considering my options for a renovation project which will require substantial changes to my central heating and domestic hot water system. I was considering going a thermal store with a biomass boiler (wood pellet) and solar thermal, to supply: domestic hot water high temperature water fo...

radatiors and radiant flooring in same house...
i can't imagine anything but multiple core systems - two boilers - 1 for each
I can .. but it's a) sort of self-defeating and adds a bunch of complication, b) it sounds like they're trying to minimize use of electrical power in the system.
The real answer is that "this isn't a DIY project" and he needs to consult with the manufacturer and an engineering firm and/or HVAC firm to have it installed.
fair point that
except that wasn't his question, his question was "how" do they get the right temp
though I think you assumed a bit on the steam
20:36
Hot water radiators aren't really very efficient. If he's dealing with a boiler and trying to go with a system that isn't dependent on electricity, then he's probably actually looking at steam and just doesn't know enough yet to know the difference.
they may not be but a lot of systems are hot water, not steam
sayeth the landlord with a 30 yr old boiler in one unit... ;)
anyway, i'm out
thanks tons for the input
Probably good point. I just don't deal with them much because I don't live in the great white north. ;)
btw i assume we can use cheapest mortar for the tub base
nothing fancy i mean, just basic unmodified
Np. Ping me any time... or just look on that johnbridge forum which is where I get my own info.
20:40
@TheEvilGreebo Look for Quickrete ... it'll be in the concrete aisle
i know it
thanks
 
2 hours later…
23:11
The fiberglass insulation for ductwork is the absolute worst fiberglass ever
ugh
it is so much itchier than any other fiberglass insulation I have ever worked with
I'm seriously considering paying 50% more for the foil-bubble-wrap stuff.

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