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12:02
blah
12:12
@ChrisCudmore Oh yes please lets keep the politics out of here.
 
3 hours later…
15:10
1
Q: How can I remove grout and mortar from a drain?

Ovi TislerI accidentally poured some mortar and grout down my bathroom drain when I was cleaning the remains of a bucket of mortar after tiling the kitchen. The drain was plugged up pretty bad so I tried to scrape some of it out with a wire hanger down the overflow, and that got it flowing again, but its s...

15:22
maybe a commercial snake could break it out but i think a sledge hammer might be in order
@BMitch is that job where you're going to be removing sections of pipe until you stop finding grout?
We should have a badge for folks that vote for questions/answers, but never ask or answer questions on the site themselves. Stalker (bronze) = 500 votes cast, 0 questions, 0 answers. Skulker (silver) = 2000 votes cast, 0 questions, 0 answers. Lurker (gold) = 5000 votes cast, 0 questions, 0 answers.
Kevin Pullin, Orange, CA
101 1 1 4
Todd Grover, Scottville, MI
101 2 4
 
1 hour later…
16:29
I just realized that I have an answer on Stackoverflow that has been accepted and has garnered more votes than Jon Skeet's.
22
A: Why should you delete using an HTTP POST or DELETE, rather than GET?

Chris CudmoreJon Skeet's answer is the canonical answer. But: Suppose you have a link: href = "\myApp\DeleteImportantData.aspx?UserID=27" and the google-bot comes along and indexes your page? What happens then?

@ChrisCudmore you have won the game.
Now I just lost... The Game.
ffffffffffffffffffUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
i dont agree with the accepted answer
What do you disagree with?
passing an ID via GET to a delete function is OK if you add limit 1 to the delete command, make sure the incoming ID is numeric and not empty (basic sql injection prevention tasks)
16:34
Ok, but by convention, Get is not supposed to change anything on the server. That's what Skeet's answer was trying to get at.
I was getting at the fact that gets can be bookmarked, and hyperlinked in <a > tags. Since spiders follow these, it's quite easy to accidentally do something mistaken.
Sure, you can make it safe, but there is a better mechanism.
@lsiunsuex And use parameterized calls and not dynamic sql
still can't agree. any input / output on a website should be check for any kind of injection, period. null and voiding the question of wether GET should be used or not
every single page on my site that touches the DB gets this
<?php
session_start();
if($_SESSION['userName'] == "")
{die();}
Your pages shouldn't touch the DB to begin with. You should have a business layer that does that for you.
alright, i'm just not in the mood of what to and not to do when programming a website. i have this conversation with to many people elsewhere - i've passed PCI-DSS and have built over 40 websites. we'll just agree to disagree today.
GET is fine in my opinion. its not in yours.
16:51
@lsiunsuex That's strange logic. If I drive a screw with a hammer 40 times, does that make my hammer a screwdriver?
It can be made safe. But the standards suggest that I, as a developer, interacting with your service, should be able to assume that gets are idempotent.
i dont think thats a proper analogy. some times a GET needs to be used. all the time database queries need to be secured. with security in place, a GET can be fine.
with this logic, doing a GET passing an ID to delete an entry which i can pass with a href is a bad thing even though all my pages that make any DB query are protected against injection
and other systemic precautions taken
and standards are a delusion. show me a way standard way to secure a sql statement. it doesn't exist. theres multiple ways and each way has its pro's and cons. using a GET is no different
17:12
man, this gasket in this toilet drain pipe is driving me nuts
Thou shalt only use a get for idempotent operations, sayeth the RFC writers
yeah, and the constitution says i have the right to bare arms, but i'm not walking into a super market tonight with a 357 magnum strapped to my belt
from an RFC over 16 years old now
9.1.2 Idempotent Methods


Methods can also have the property of "idempotence" in that (aside
from error or expiration issues) the side-effects of N > 0 identical
requests is the same as for a single request. The methods GET, HEAD,
PUT and DELETE share this property. Also, the methods OPTIONS and
TRACE SHOULD NOT have side effects, and so are inherently idempotent.
However, it is interesting to note that DELETE is in there.
I suppose if the data is gone, then it will also be gone on the subsequent calls.
funny, cause TRACE has come up in a pentest as being a potential risk
I'll look at it semantically. GET should get data.
POST should post data.
i can see the potential risk. i'm not denying that.
all i'm saying is, that with proper precautions, which should be taken anyways, using a get doesn't matter.
@ChrisCudmore so can i assume, because you know enough to not use GET, that your also checking all your incoming data for possible injection vectors ?
that you've hardened the server per PCI requirements?
17:39
@lsiunsuex Then stop talking about programming in the DIY chat :P
We spent a few hours this weekend designing our future kitchen on IKEA's kitchen planner
neat tool - bit glitchy but neat
we thought about that; the closest ikea to us is in canada and would have been to expensive to get it to buffalo
and i've finally had things quiet down enough at work that I did some DIY stuff this weekend! (specifically fixed the toilet...)
@lsiunsuex is their shipping based on weight?
fortunately we have one a few miles from us
of course it was all moot - the kitchen won't get done till after December. The bathroom upstairs is first
i looked into having a desk shipped to the house and it would have been in excess of a couple hundred
17:42
wow
you'd save more driving there in a rental van
anyone ever use Home Depot's custom mosaic tile designer?
i've tried submitting pics a few times now and it just spins and spins when I say "preview"
we got our cabinets from Lowes - plain, unfinished and stained them black - 4 coats of stain, 3 coats of poly
@TheEvilGreebo we did our our kitchen with IKEA cabinets
took my father an I 2 months to do that (nights and weekends) - complete gut...
really sucks not having a kitchen for 2 months lol... fast food becomes your best friend
@lsiunsuex but not your bellies
17:51
@lsiunsuex I feel lucky, we have 3 ikeas within an hour drive
wow where are you?
DC - the stores are Potomac Mills, College Park, and White Marsh
White Marsh is our store
You can't go there. Its mine. Stay away!
ikea has publicly said they won't build one here... we don't have a big enough population for one.
Buffalo doesn't have enough population?
17:54
It is our third choice, if we want to go there we need to pay the tunnel troll
according to ikea
no big deal - the one in canada is a hour away ish give or take the boarder
got that a week or 2 ago from ikea
Other than Toronto, what's bigger than Buffalo w/in an hour?
and isn't toronto more like 2-3 hrs?
syracuse might be bigger but its more than a hour away - rochester is not bigger
sorry, the ikea is in Burlington - about a half hour away from toronto
like i said, give or take the border - hour, hour and a half
yeah, I'm sure they feel that an hour is close enough
@lsiunsuex heck your closer than me and it's in a whole freaking different country. I have to drive ~2 hrs to ATL
17:58
St Louis, Memphis, and Columbus have none
@waxeagle where are u?
Las Vegas does not have one
Vegas! i'll be there in 2 weeks
@lsiunsuex NW GA, right near chattanooga
one of my clients i write GET delete's for is paying for us to go on vacation as a thank you :)
my geography must be really bad, where is GA ?
18:03
north of florida
south of South Carolina
Next to some of those other southern states
borders NC, SC, TN, AL and FL
Alternatively, it's a smallish RUssian province
omg, i miss read it haha - thought you were closer to me than your ikea and you were in GA
I wonder if you drive a rental truck full of ikea stuff across the border they are used to it now
@lsiunsuex East of Alabama, West of the Atlantic
18:04
the desk was 3 boxes, + some random lights and shit the wife bought and they didn't really give us a hard time. they see it often come through
@lsiunsuex not the clearest pair of sentences I've ever written
a truck, yeah, they'll probably open it up just cause - but if it fits in a car, its not hard to get through
@lsiunsuex -- Yes, I'm hardening against vectors.
Always parameterized queries.
And the usual Cross site scripting precautions.
Although dot net makes it hard to allow CCS attacks by default, to the point where you have to turn some security off to even allow it to post data.
But back to the DIY. Nice kitchen
I'll probably just give up and get the hacksaw
blah, preg_replace and strip the garbage, but thank you - it was quite the effort (first remodeling project i did in this house)
18:14
@Aaron :)
Also, for those who are interested, every once in a while Zipcar or whatever has groupon deal for free membership etc for $30 (includes $30 driving credit)
I'll probably end up doing that to bring the 12' shelves homes
Semi-DIY related, 25" deep reach-in closet, for shelves on the back wall, 12" or 16" shelves?
12" is the norm i think
we do all rubbermaid wire shelves at 12 inches in the closets
@lsiunsuex the fully-attached or the modular one?
the one where their screwed into the wall and then an arm goes 45 degrees from the wall to the front of the shelf
yeah I'm going to do the elfa-style ones where you have the hang track and the vertical standards
makes it much easier to rearrange as needed
18:18
we did the track one in the linen closet cause it can carry more weight
its nice but overkill for a closet i think in our case
I'm a little apprehensive about using the stud finder on the plaster wall since I've heard they don't work as well
lol most of our closets have vertical standards with no hang track (which I understand is just for leveling?
eventually i said f' it and bought bolt cutters and cut them at home than trying to explain to the dude at home depot how long i needed each section
closets in this house a tiny :( so i did 2 layers so i can hang my shirts
i built her her own closet when we remodeled the master last year.
@lsiunsuex Any excuse to slip a new tool past the wife!
How'd you attach the vertical standards to the wall?
Toggle bolts or did you do them over a stud?
18:21
this was a complete gut so it was just 1 layer of drywall (not plaster and lath) so i was able to find the studs and still had the markings on the floor - so most of them i hit a stud. where i missed, i used the toggle bolts
my last one was to @waxeagle
when i drywall, i put painters tape on the floor and mark the studs so i have a better shot of hitting the studs when i screw the drywall in
@Aaron OMG You're STILL not a real man????
Although I might get a pipe cutter for the closet rod
@lsiunsuex That's what she said. ;)
18:22
@Aaron I didn't, but they are spaced in such a way that they look like their over the studs. We've got drywall though
@Aaron They generally don't work well in plaster, yeah
@TheEvilGreebo Is it the plaster or the lath that confuses them?
I think its just the overall thickness
my walls are double thick - two layers of old 2x3 gypsum panel from what I can tell - and stud finders scream when I try them
The hang track has holes every 8" and I think I have 58" of back wall space, so I'll probably cut the hang track to 56", which should give me 7 bolts to work with
18:57
not bad savings today
@Aaron so how do you like living in LV
I'm in DC, not LV
sorry, thought you said you were in vegas
1 hour ago, by lsiunsuex
@waxeagle where are u?
@Aaron interpreted that as you living in vegas
that didn't work
roger!
I've been there hmm.. 3 times? 4 times?
19:10
:5865161
its not working for me :(
one of your comments said LV doesn't have an ikea - i interpreted THAT comment as you living there haha
@lsiunsuex gotta copy the permalink
I also never do the 'reply to' in chat, I just do @ whatever
1 hour ago, by Aaron
Las Vegas does not have one
holy f'... :)
Yeah, there needs to be list of things chat can do 'smartly' - questions and answers, chat links
also, amazon, wikipedia, twitter
@Aaron moment please
19:14
speaking of - where have you stayed in the past? in LV
I've stayed at umm
the pyramidy one
17
A: What links and sites are handled specially in chat?

Juha SyrjäläThe current list of integrated (we call this onebox, or oneboxing, ala search engines) sites is: Stack Exchange sites: Questions / Answers / Users / Comments Stack Exchange Chat: Messages / Rooms / Bookmarked conversations Area 51 proposals Posts from the Stack Exchange blog, the Server Fault b...

Luxor
Ballys, and the Westin
Not sure I could stay in Luxor - the terrace effect would scare the shit out of me
I think when I was in there I was in one of the towers on the side (traditional building)
@waxeagle xkcd, seriously?
I guess it just links it instead of making just the picture
19:17
We got married in Vegas - little church of the west across from Mandalay Bay (we stayed there) - this time we're staying at THEHotel - on mandalay bay's property, all suites (different tower)
Yeah I think I wandered into THEHotel when I was walking around that area, decided it was too upscale for me, and left
i get that feeling from Cosmopolitan but my friend loves it ther
@Aaron it gives the picture, and the alt text if you can get there from work
@Aaron don't forget that nerds decide what gets oneboxed
@waxeagle oh, I'm well aware of that, I'm just not that impressed by oneboxing ... a picture
if you like that 'sort of stuff', I highly recommend Ka
19:21
@Aaron ah, gotcha.
We like the shows - We're gonna see Beatles Love again, she wants to see O at bellagio and something else she wanted to see
Last time we saw Le Rev and Beatles Love. Love was awesome
I was honestly not that impressed by O
It's a little more dated these days I think, and Mystere is definitely showing its age
is onebox specific to SE or is it available otherwise?
trying to find a website where its maintained
@lsiunsuex I think it's something balpha wrote
19:36
6
Q: Best review sites/web resources for finding a contractor?

Doug T.Many times we need to hire a contractor and try to extensively google for reviews on that contractor. Sometimes to no avail :( Just curious what web resources you use when trying to find a contractor? Be it a review site or some other method, what have you used in the past to identify the best p...

This question should either be made more 'generic' or removed I think
What are all these (removed)?
@ChrisCudmore Classified information.
It's been redacted.
By OP or by Mods?
Potty mouth?
I removed mine because I was just playing with oneboxing
not really things that needed to be archived forever
@ChrisCudmore NSA.
@Aaron Nope, still says removed.
19:41
oh and we can always read your deleted posts :P
1 min ago, by Aaron
I think if mods remove things, it just completely vanishes
Sweet, and we can link to them!
Anyway... @Aaron I'd vote to close that question. It seems to be from the early days of the community, when we were still trying to define what was on-topic.
Well now that's really odd
Was that link after it was 'removed' ?
@Aaron yeah, it's a mod thing :)
0
Q: How to protect aluminum fence posts from weed trimmer?

Evil ElfI assumed the manufacturers of the fencing would sell an optional sleeve to protect the power-coating on the posts from the repeated scraping of the trimmer cord, but they do not? Does anyone have any ideas? Is this even needed?

not sure why that works, but it does
19:49
Sometimes, I'm just a jerk...
" Stop hitting it with the weed whacker? ;) – The Evil Greebo 56 secs ago edit "
That post about the concrete in the drain was a good one
to which of course, the answer is this:
@Aaron love that ep
I think that is tied with the water heaters for my favorite explosion
the truck is there one second and gone the next
man, we have the giant cement truck filled with cement...we don't want it, we can't get the cemetn out of it...I know let's blow the thing to beyond hell....
@Aaron powdered creamer in the sawdust cannon was pure awesome
That was a great one too
19:54
Well, it did get the cement out of the truck.
@ChrisCudmore yes, yes it did
@TheEvilGreebo Sometimes you're a jerk? When exactly are the other times?
That picture is more than a little peculiar
@BMitch I sleep sometimes...
19:58
The shame with the cement truck explosion was that the high speed cameras all malfunctioned. So they were left showing the regular speed footage.
@BMitch that has to be the worst. It's an absolute one shot deal, and your cameras fail
They should have gotten another truck ;)
@waxeagle it came out in a later episode, and they were definitely upset about it
Hmm...
0
Q: What are some easy non-expensive ways to clean a toilet?

InquilineKeaIn particular, the exterior of a toilet. My parents tell me to wipe the outside and surrounding floor of the toilet with a diaper several times (and then to wash the diaper with water in the sink several times). I'm really not sure if this is the most time-efficient way to clean the exterior of ...

This might be more interesting as "What are the expensive ways to clean a toilet?"
I've never found myself saying, "I wanted to clean the toilet, but it's just so expensive."
@Tester101 Well, you know, some people just can't stand having used things, so they buy new ones every tmie the old ones get dirty
20:07
a diaper ?
@Aaron I can only assume he is referring to a cloth diaper. a disposable one would not tolerate being rinsed very well
Disconnect the toilet. Put it in the dishwasher.
I don't know if you can get the stuff for household use, but there is an industrial product called activate that is excellent at cleaning up around toilets. It's got active enzymes that eat urine etc
Mouthwash on a toilet?
@Tester101 For that matter, are toilet cleaning supplies/fluids really all that expensive?
20:14
@Tester101 no idea
Or, does the person need to use a gallon of it every day due to aiming or other issues?
@Tester101 yeah no, honestly you can just clean it with toilet bowl cleaner on whatever wand you're using
honestly, migrate to parenting :P
20:45
@Tester101 every time I see a question from this guy I get worried.
3
Q: What are some good ways to identify cracks that bedroom insects come from?

InquilineKeaI know that there are some thermal sensors to detect where heat fluxes are highest (which could identify cracks). But are there other solutions too?

1
Q: How do I make my room stop smelling so bad?

InquilineKeaMy parents keep on complaining about the smell, but I don't smell anything at all. I've put in two odor-maskers, but they're not helping at all. I also try to ventilate, but it's almost always way too cold to open the windows here (yes, even in the middle of summer right now - Seattle has been ...

I really wouldn't want to live with this guy

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