Home Improvement

Jeff Ferland

16:38

Hoping somebody is around to share in my amusement / horror....

After reading this question:

6

Q: Acceptable ground to neutral voltage?

First of all I'm pretty sure I know the theory behind the effect. I know about the inductive and capacitive coupling, about 3-phase balance problems and about ground bounce, so this question isn't about normality of existence of voltage between ground and neutral line. What I want to know is in...

I stuck my multimeter prongs into my outlets in my sketchily wired apartment. I now feel even more sketched out having read 60 volts between hot and ground and 60 volts between neutral and ground.

Tester101

@JeffFerland what do you read between hot and neutral?

Jeff Ferland

17:02

@Tester101 120v between hot and neutral...

Tester101

@JeffFerland are you sure you have a good ground?

Jeff Ferland

@Tester101 I highly distrust anything to do with the wiring in here. The voltage issue seems to depend on the circuit. Some are reading closer to 1 volt.

BMitch

@JeffFerland wow, perhaps that's 60v with 2 hots to get to 120v. Maybe that was done when only 120v service was provided (vs 2 120v lines for 240v service), but I've never see that in my experience.

Jeff Ferland

@BMitch I don't know where the hell the building would get 60 volt service from

BMitch

@JeffFerland yeah, you're last comment had me scratching my head even more.

Jeff Ferland

17:06

1.7 volt neutral <-> ground in the kitchen

BMitch

/me afk, lunch time

Tester101

@JeffFerland I'm going to guess you don't have a good ground near the other receptacle.

Theoretically, you should have 120V hot <-> ground and 0V neutral <-> ground.

Though that's in a perfect world with no resistance.

Jeff Ferland

@Tester101 I don't have a good ground on the whole circuit.

Jeff Ferland

17:27

Google search of the day: national electric code pdf site:gov.

Tester101

18:38

By far the best NEC 2008 "230.10 Vegetation as Support. Vegetation such as trees shall not be used for support of overhead service conductors"

Steve Jackson

Utility poles are made of wood, trees are made of wood - I don't see the problem here ;)

Tester101

@SteveJackson utility poles don't grow.

Steve Jackson

Ahh, so dead trees are safe. Gotcha!

Jay Bazuzi

Utility poles rot and fall instead - that's OK.

Tester101

@SteveJackson Right. as long as you cut off all the branches.

Then it's a natural utility pole.

Jay Bazuzi

18:45

What if you build a treehouse?

Steve Jackson

Guess you'll have to build it on a utility pole :)

Tester101

@JayBazuzi that's fine, as long as the service drop is not connected to the tree. So if you have a service mast, the drop can connect to the tree house there.

Aaron

19:01

morning home improvement friends

for those keeping up on track with my attic soffit issues, I have news

I bought a set of work overalls so I could climb around down there, and after an exhaustive look, and also looking at the outside, there are actually no soffit vents, just 2 gable vents

and, the alleged plaster damage that was in the front bedroom at the top corner (near where the soffits are) appeared to actually be badly applied primer vs damaged plaster

Steve Jackson

19:14

@Aaron The missing soffit vents isn't uncommon but generally not ideal. Having a separate intake and outake of outside air is good for most roof types.

@Aaron So no water damage after all?

Jeff Ferland

OK, so I tested neutral to ground by sticking my test lead wires into the two holes and then connecting them with a 1 amp fuse. Fuse didn't blow.

That could explain neutral <-> ground voltage as some sort of minor transient, but doesn't tell me why I only read 60v hot <-> ground.

Aaron

19:37

@SteveJackson, well, the plaster isn't "damaged" on the outside layer - cracking/peeling/shedding off

The home inpsector did use his moisture detector up in that area and did get a reading, but now I'm wondering if it wasn't something else

What's the cheapest multimeter that has a beep on continuity

Steve Jackson

19:49

Probably $20-$30 I'd think. This looks like a good deal.

You can do it with an analog one if you don't need the beep (just measure resistance).

Aaron

I already have the non contact tester and the ground checker... Are the plugs in multimeters typically standard so I can swap out the test probes for alligator clips if I want?

Tester101

@JeffFerland Could be seeing 60V hot <-> ground, if the ground wire is not connected. The ground wire might actually be at 60V due to induction, so the potential difference is only 60V. Are you using a digital multimeter? If you use a voltmeter you should see the phantom voltage go away, and you should get 120V hot <-> ground.

Steve Jackson

@Tester101 Good point on DMM - my brain was working that direction.

Tester101

also could be voltage drop if the circuit is really long. or the receptacles are connected in series for some insane reason.

BMitch

Welcome to Project Update Thursday!

Steve Jackson

20:01

@Aaron Depends how cheap they are. You could clip to the probe though.

BMitch

so did anyone get any nice toys from Santa or your deity of choice?

Steve Jackson

@BMitch Not yet. Mine are still in redeemable plastic form for a project to be named later.

Niall C.

I got stuff to distract me from my projects (movies & Skyrim... woot!)

BMitch

I finally added an impact driver to my tool collection. Now I need a new project.

Steve Jackson

My wife got me a "throwback Atari" which was not nearly as fun as my child-self wanted it to be. 4bit graphics is a bit too far from HD TV to handle the transition.

Chris Cudmore

20:10

@BMitch Change the rims on your car.

BMitch

@ChrisCudmore I need to find a loose screw

Chris Cudmore

Satan Clause broke the springs on my garage door on Boxing day.

$400 to get it fixed. But I'm not messing around with high tension springs. People die that way.

Steve Jackson

Smart man

Chris Cudmore

I'll stick to electricity. It's safer.

Steve Jackson

Chris Cudmore

20:18

@SteveJackson Send the bill to my estate.

Steve Jackson

Well this PUT is dead 20 mins in. Someone is going to have to do something around here!

Chris Cudmore

I don't think anyone is doing any work around the house over the holidays.

Tester101

Holidays are here. too many family members in the way to actually get work done.

Chris Cudmore

Try Cooking.stackexchange.com

Tester101

Some instant death would come in handy this time of year.

Chris Cudmore

20:23

I've been too busy playing kinect with the kids.

Flapping your arms to fly is tiring.

Tester101

I need a third rail running through the middle of my house.

BMitch

@SteveJackson paging @Aarthi, we need your services

Aarthi

Whoa, hey guys!

Steve Jackson

Neat trick @BMitch

Chris Cudmore

It's a christmas miracle!

Aarthi

20:25

Hahaha, sure we can go with that. How's life everyone?

BMitch

@Aarthi yippie

Aarthi

:D

Aaron

So what's the best way to get the attic flooring up so I can roll in some more insulation

it's a bunch of nailed down plywood sections on top of the joists

why people don't use screws more often I have no idea

Chris Cudmore

Flooring is a pain. Not many options other than Skil saws.

BMitch

life is good and busy and quite all at the same time

Aarthi

20:27

@BMitch at least it stays interesting :D

BMitch

@Aaron pull the nails with a small pry bar, it should come to a point on the end like two claws that you can use to dig under the nail

Chris Cudmore

Protip: If you release the Skil Saw while using it, it will race across the floor.

@BMitch Tried that once. Took about 10 minutes per nail.

Tester101

@Aaron Screws weren't so easy in a land before cordless drills.

Aaron

They're not quite countersunk below the plywood, but digging up that much around the nail holes will be an extreme pain in the ass

BMitch

Steve Jackson

20:29

If you can get one piece up then you can pry the wood near the nail on the others, should pop up unless they were really devious and used glue.

BMitch

hammer the pry bar perpendicular to the surface at first, and then keep hammering as you curve it under the nail

Aarthi

ooh we have a new face -- @JeffFerland hello :)

BMitch

if you do it right, it should only take 1 min per nail

Aaron

15 or 20A breakers for the washer and (gas) dryer?

I need to pick up some romex spools

Aarthi

hmm. tempting: summon lqlarry.

Aaron

20:31

sigh

Tester101

Chris Cudmore

Is the dryer 110 or 220?

Aarthi

unfortunately, guys, I'm actually on vacation -- in Texas!

The fam is calling me away; I'll be back in a little while, though. If anyone's still around, I'll bother ye then :D

BMitch

@Tester101 You can't hammer that under a flush nail, but it's good to pry up the board once you get it started

Aaron

110 - do they make 220 gas dryers?

Chris Cudmore

20:32

I don't know. Never used a gas dryer.

Tester101

2 wonderbars. pry up with one then with the next, then with the first, then with the second. walk them down the edge until the board is up.

Chris Cudmore

I figured it would be 110, as a 220 uses one leg for motor, and the other for heat.

Jay Bazuzi

Go ahead and do 12ga wire for the dryer.

It will make the motor last longer & use less energy.

Chris Cudmore

I'd go with 2 15 amp circuits, unless anyone has a reason for going 20A

Wire a split, like in the kitchen, and put GFCI breakers in.

BMitch

@ChrisCudmore "more power!" - Tim the toolman

Aaron

20:34

the current outlet by the W/D setup is a duplex outlet, the W plugged into one, and then the sump pump plugged into the other one. There's also a lead off going off of it to power some outside lights

Chris Cudmore

It draws what it draws... If it wants 12A, then that's what it's taking.

Yitzchak

Hello all.

JoeFish

Hi der

Chris Cudmore

I apologize for the apostrophe abuse.

JoeFish

I heard there were cookies.

Steve Jackson

20:35

Hello @Yitzchak and @JoeFish

Aaron

Can I just get 2 15 a breakers and run 12/3 cable and use red for the bottom receptacle hot or should I run 2 12/2 cables and hook up the bottom receptacle separately?

(after breaking off the tab on the hot side of the receptacle)

Jay Bazuzi

The first way, with the 12/3

They can share a neutral.

But you have to use a bonded breaker

Chris Cudmore

@Aaron use 12/3, and run the wires to adjacent breakers with a clip tying them together.

JoeFish

I was always under the impression that you need a separate neutral for two circuits to stay within the load limits.

Tester101

@Aaron doesn't the w/d say what it draws in the manual, or on a tag on the machines?

JoeFish

20:36

Since the neutral carries current in 120v

Chris Cudmore

@Tester101 It better.

Aaron

hmm, have to look up bonded breaker

Jay Bazuzi

@JoeFish Because the two hots are on different legs, if both of them are drawing the same current, the neutral carries nothing.

Chris Cudmore

@JoeFish It carries current, but it should be at 0V

BMitch

@JoeFish @Aarthi gives out all our cookies

Jay Bazuzi

20:37

bonded breaker = breaker with a clip tying them together, so they both flip at the same time.

Chris Cudmore

@JayBazuzi Only when wired as 220. We're talking a split here.

Jay Bazuzi

Look up "MWBC" = "Multi-wire branch circuit"

JoeFish

That makes sense then why the breakers have to be adjacent, so they're out of phase.

Aaron

@Tester101, well true, just wondering what the 'standard' is, and if I'd be doing the next homeowner a favor by using 20A breakers

Yitzchak

@BMitch Anyone who gets my grandmother out of her apartment so I can paint (and get her out, it's good for her) will get lots of cookies

beer too -- no power tools involved in painting

JoeFish

20:39

@Aaron, either way I'd run 12gu wire. It helps me sleep better at night, and the breaker/outlet can be changed to 20a later if desired/necessary.

Jay Bazuzi

I remember reading about 12/4 (2 neutrals) but I don't remember the details...

JoeFish

It's more expensive than 14gu, but does it mattter in the long run?

Chris Cudmore

@Aaron It depends on what you expect it to draw. If it draws 12-13 Amps, putting a 20A breaker in means that it might not trip if something goes wrong.

Jeff Ferland

@Aarthi Hello!

Chris Cudmore

Although, there may very well be a fuse in the device as well.

Jeff Ferland

20:40

So, let me know when it's my turn and I'll tell my tale of how I started down a path of high-tech HI recently....

Jay Bazuzi

12ga is also a little harder to work with, but still worth it.

the breaker's job is to protect the in-wall wires only. What you plug in is up to you.

JoeFish

@jay: exactly

Chris Cudmore

Go Jeff. We're used to carrying on multiple threads at the same time.

JoeFish

I <3 electricity :)

Jay Bazuzi

If you have a 20A circuit, an 18ga extension cord, and a 19.9A load, that's your own problem.

JoeFish

20:41

lol

Tester101

@ChrisCudmore if it draws 12-13 Amps, you're getting close to the circuit limits, better to run 20A

JoeFish

@JayBazuzi: poor man's Christmas lights? :)

Steve Jackson

@JayBazuzi I've got the marshmallows!

Chris Cudmore

12 Amps is 80% of 15. Should be fine.

Jay Bazuzi

The systematic software geek in me wants to run a subpanel to the kitchen and another to each bathroom. sigh

Jeff Ferland

20:42

Well, first is my recent discovery of just how damn broken my apartment's wiring is.

Yitzchak

Do tell.

JoeFish

@ChrisCudmore: until the sump pump and outside lights also plugged into the circuit kick on

Jeff Ferland

Based on this question, I decided to stick my multimeter prongs into my outlet. I got a neutral-to-ground of 60 volts. Then I got a hot-to-ground of 60 volts. Then I really started scratching my head.

Aaron

where is information on this bonded breaker that I would need for this 12/3 connection powering a duplex receptacle?

Jeff Ferland

8

Q: Acceptable ground to neutral voltage?

First of all I'm pretty sure I know the theory behind the effect. I know about the inductive and capacitive coupling, about 3-phase balance problems and about ground bounce, so this question isn't about normality of existence of voltage between ground and neutral line. What I want to know is in...

electrical grounding

Yitzchak

20:43

Once read about an electrician who opened up a wall to find a gap in his wiring bridged by an empty shotgun shell...

Chris Cudmore

@JoeFish I'm working under the assumption that he's installing dedicated circuits here.

Aaron

@Yitzchak, better than a live shell!

Jeff Ferland

I started thinking that hot and neutral might be two lines that are out of phase, so I decided to test how much current I could run from neutral to ground. I didn't want to do so with the 10 amps my multimeter would pass before blowing its fuse, so I tried openign it up to swap a 1 amp in... but it was too small.

So, I took the multimeter leads off the meter, stuck the prongs in, and then used the other ends of them to squish together the 1 amp fuse. Neutral to ground, it didn't blow.

Aaron

@ChrisCudmore, yes, the current setup has the sump pump, washer, and a outside light subpanel on the same circuit. I wish to change to make new circuit for washer by itself, dryer by itself, sump pump by itself, and outside light (and other "utility" receptacles) by itself

Yitzchak

@Aaron, yes but not much -- especially since he probably had to move it to find out it was empty

Jeff Ferland

20:46

Wanting to try the simple and lazy approach, I came back home with a 3 light plug-in tester. It developed a pattern that wasn't documented: the center light lit, and the two outer lights flickered.

Aaron

Old dryer was a hardwired 220... and actually, come to think of it, I already do have 12/3 wire at that location, so maybe I'll just use that wire instead of running new (it is now just hanging out in its box, with breaker off (and taped)

Jay Bazuzi

@Aaron Go read up on MWBC for all the details.

JoeFish

@Aaron honestly, I can't think of a good reason not to run a 20A circuit, except for the cost of materials. Which, in a house, shouldn't be a significant issue.

IMO, of course. I'd much rather have circuits that are too heavy than too light.

Jeff Ferland

My little tester came with a GFCI test button. I figured since all the GFCI test buttons on the outlets were working, I'd take it a step furhter and use an external short. The outlets aren't tripping from the external test, but are from the internal test.

Jay Bazuzi

It's nice for motors to be on oversized circuits, because it makes them more efficient, they run cooler, and last longer.

Many loads are intermittent, so if you cleverly get them to share conductors, they get extra copper for "free"

Jeff Ferland

20:49

I still haven't figured it out fully, but I'm starting to suspect that somebody creatively wired the GFCI.

Project 2 is to 12-volt my desk, exchanging all the adapters for a single power supply and parallel taps with individual fuses. This is to power an Arduino, my speakers, external hard drive, etc. While i'm wiring all that up, I'm also going to run small motors up to the top of my curtains so that the Arduino opens and closes them electrically as an alarm clock.

Aaron

@JayBazuzi reading up on MWBC

Jay Bazuzi

Like my septic system pump - 240V, 15A. I could have used 14/2. Plus the septic control panel, another 14/2. Or a 10/2 to a subpanel, and then the pump gets to sit on 10ga wire and last longer.

JoeFish

@JeffFerland and people tell me I do some crazy stuff :)

Jay Bazuzi

Since the pump costs $1000, making it last is good.

Aaron

@JayBazuzi, if I read this correctly though, to use a shared neutral, they must feed from different phases, correct?

Tester101

20:51

NEC 2008 210.11 **Branch Circuits Required** (C) **Dwelling Units** (2) **Laundry Branch Circuits.** In addition to the number
of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one additional 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the laundry receptacle outlet(s) required by
210.52(F). This circuit shall have no other outlets.

Jay Bazuzi

And it only runs for a max of 2 minutes each day!

Chris Cudmore

@Tester101 I suppose that's final.

JoeFish

@Aaron yes, that would be the reason for the bonded breakers, because adjacent breakers are out-of-phase

Jay Bazuzi

(Because the run was long, I went from 10ga to 8ga; 8ga copper costs 2x as much as the next size up Al they had, which was 2ga, so I used that instead. For a 15A pump. ha ha.)

JoeFish

2gu?!? Mommy.

I ran 6gu for a 50a sub panel and wanted to kill myself working with it. I can't imagine trying to move 2gu around.

Aaron

20:55

@JoeFish understood

@JoeFish, right now I think there is a 50 (or 30?) protecting this 12/3 run.... so instead I should replace this with 2 20s tied together I think

Jay Bazuzi

It's so stiff that just pulling it off the spool is hard work. :-)

Aaron

if I was to break off the neutral tab, then I'd need to run a second neutral, but then I'd be free of the rule to tie the breakers together, correct?

Jay Bazuzi

With hindsight, I shoulda bought a full 500' spool of the 2/2/2/4 Al

JoeFish

@Aaron You mean you'd have one receptacle where each outlet is on a different circuit?

Aaron

Yes - although I suppose at that point it might just make more sense to make 2 individual single outlets and boxes, but I bought a bunch of duplex receptacles

JoeFish

20:59

I don't know what the NEC says about that, but I wouldn't be comfortable having 2 circuits in one box.

Jay Bazuzi

@Aaron: you could probably find a way within the NEC rules to do that, but I think it's a bad idea, because it's nice to be able to kill everything in a junction box at once.

JoeFish

@JayBazuzi Agreed

Aaron

I'm still having trouble finding this bonded circuit breaker product

Tester101

210.4 Multiwire Branch Circuits (B) Disconnecting Means. Each multiwire branch circuit shall be provided with a means that will simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors at the point where the branch circuit originates

JoeFish

Which could be a drawback, since you can't power off one branch without the other. So don't plug your iron lung into the other outlet.

Aaron

21:05

That's probably ok

Chris Cudmore

homedepot.ca/product/…

Tester101

Aaron

But is that 20A total or 20A per phase/leg?

I want to be able to operate the W and D simultaneously

Chris Cudmore

That's 20A per leg

Jay Bazuzi

@Aaron: 20A on each leg means 20A will be available for the W and 20 for the D

Aaron

21:09

ok, I thought those dual pole ratings were for the "whole thing"

JoeFish

I believe that would be for a 220v device that uses both legs at once

Jay Bazuzi

The rating indicates what size conductor it can protect

20A will protect 12ga or thicker

Aaron

But both legs might be in use at the same time. And as someone else pointed out if I have to turn off the breaker for one, I have to turn them off for both, but that's my choice for sharing the neutral leg

JoeFish

Yes, but each circuit has its own hot, and the neutral is 180 degrees out of phase, so you get the full 20a on each. At least that's what I've gleaned from our discussion so far :)

Jay Bazuzi

@Aaron: In an MWBC, the neutral carries the difference the load between the two hot legs

Aaron

21:13

so a dual pole 50 for the range is actually 50amps per leg?

Jay Bazuzi

Yes... but since the range is a 220V device, it's just 50A @ 220V

JoeFish

I'm glad I dropped in. This is a really good discussion

Jay Bazuzi

I think the range only has a neutral for the clock, the heating elements just run on 220A

Chris Cudmore

Keep in mind that ranges have their own fuses. It's really a subpanel built right into the range.

Aaron

JoeFish

21:16

@JayBazuzi AFAIK running the neutral is the new code for 220v

Aaron

galesburgelectric.com/…

Handle tie "just not a good idea" (tm) ?

Tester101

Also keep in mind that a true 220V device does not require a neutral. The neutral is only required if the device use 120V.

Steve Jackson

@Aaron MWBC wasn't required to have double-poles before a more recent version of the NEC (just a best practice). Handle-ties are the workaround for old installs.

Functionally it's fine, the only real issue is that they can be removed by "Harry Homeowner"

Jay Bazuzi

@JoeFish: Yeah, there's a bit of a mixup between "220v" and "220/120v"

Tester101

@Aaron why are you opposed to running 2 separate circuits? I don't think you'll be able to use the cable that's already in place (likely 6-8ga), since you'll have a hard time hooking up a 15A receptacle to that wire.

Aaron

21:25

Well, it's not opposed per se

it's more trying to re-use what is already there instead of running new wires and pulling down old wires

JoeFish

@Tester101 I think he said it was 12/3 already

Aaron

It might be 10/3 ... I really don't know, it was for the old electric dryer

Jay Bazuzi

What rating is the washer's circuit?

Tester101

@Aaron What size is the dryers breaker now?

I'm guessing it's at least #8 cable now, if it was an electric dryer.

Aaron

So, how about this - 20amp dual pole breaker in the panel to the existing ????/3 wire which is "near" the W/D area (was for old dryer) Then a junction box with the ????/3 wire going into it with wire nuts inside it going to 12/3 wire which goes into the duplex receptacle with the hot broken as mentioned above

@Tester101, it is big, I don't know for sure

And then I will use the old circuit that is now for the washer for the sump pump

Jay Bazuzi

21:30

You could put a small subpanel on the dryer's old circuit. That'd be fun. :-)

I have a small project update for PUT

I bought a 1/2 cord of firewood, because I watned something DRY NOW.

It was not dry.

So I bought a ton of sawdust logs for this winter.

Tester101

@JayBazuzi you love sub panels too much.

Jay Bazuzi

They're nice, but they take a LONG time to get hot

@Tester101: yes, it's true. it's the programmer in me.

So for when I want a quick, hot fire, I want small sticks.

But splitting wood small is hard.

So I got tiedowns for my truck.

Then I take a bunch of logs and tie them together with the tiedown

Then I swing at the bundle with the maul, repeatedly.

They don't fall over / go flying, so I don't have to stand them up or anything.

JoeFish

I've seen that on Youtube. Pretty cool stuff

Jay Bazuzi

Then I stack them up by the woodstove to dry out.

(Not my idea; my low-budget farmer friend is full of ideas.)

Chris Cudmore

Yes, but there's something so satisfying about splitting wood when it's -15C outside and it just splits and goes flying.

Jay Bazuzi

21:37

Yeah, I enjoy that when the logs are bigger

Aaron

The only satisfying thing when it's -15C outside is being inside

Chris Cudmore

Actually, it's the only temp. I'll split wood at. It's too hot otherwise.

Aaron

Next question: stapling romex to joists

JoeFish

Red Swingline. Next question?

Tester101

I like these guys

Gardner Bender 1/2 in. Blue Insulated Steel Staples for Romex and NM Cables

Aaron

21:46

I was hoping for a power actuated method

JoeFish

Those are the ones I use also.

Chris Cudmore

Yeah. I don't like the idea of metal staples against insulation. Everything moves, and it might wear through unnoticed.

JoeFish

They're extremely sharp. And I tend to hammer my fingers a lot while installing them.

Chris Cudmore

Needle nose pliers to hold them until you get them set.

JoeFish

Well that takes all the danger and excitement out of it

Chris Cudmore

21:50

Real men bleed when they work...

JoeFish

I must be one seriously manly dude then. My left hand is one big scar :)

Steve Jackson

@Aaron Too risky. You cut the insulation and now you have to pull a whole new wire. Hammer them in.

JoeFish

Which, incidentally, is how you know a right handed mechanic/handyman

Chris Cudmore

@Aaron Too Risky. You'll drive a nail into your hand/genitalia.

JoeFish

blink

With that, I must be off. Cheers all

Steve Jackson

21:57

Bye @joefish, come visit again.

Chris Cudmore

I'm off too. Happy New Year all. Don't Drink while you DIY. You might spill your drink.

Steve Jackson

Probably should avoid it while splitting logs too. Happy New Year @chris!

BMitch

Thanks for joining us for this week's PUT

Project Update Thursday - 29 Dec 2011

2 hours ago, 2 hours 3 minutes total – 240 messages, 11 users, 1 star

Bookmarked 7 secs ago by BMitch

Steve Jackson

Well @Aarthi saved that PUT. Phew. 240 messages!

Aaron

22:13

So, with this split receptacle idea with the dual pole breaker, do I need to make it a GFCI breaker?

holy bleep though, a 20 amp 2 pole GFCI breaker is $77

Steve Jackson

@Aaron I think the shared neutral would screw up a GFCI receptacle. Not sure about a breaker, but I wouldn't have thought of it honestly. Ask on the site.

Aaron

Let me know if you want me to question-ify anything else that I talked about today - I'm always happy to put new questions up

BMitch

@SteveJackson we would have been awfully quiet without her all powerful presence

@SteveJackson from my understanding, it's only an issue if you share the neutral after the GFCI with a different hot, but I could be missing something, and I haven't worked with a gfci installed on a 2 pole breaker.

Steve Jackson

@BMitch Yeah, I started sketching it on paper and I think you're right. But like you, I also have never come across GFIs on a double pole.

This will make a good conversation starter next time I talk to my dad :)

BMitch

@SteveJackson when you get the answer, it will make a great blog post :)

or let me know if you want me to make a softball question for you

Aaron

22:26

I'm already making one

Steve Jackson

I'm generally not comfortable answering electrical questions. Having grown up around an electrician I know all sorts of corner cases that make it impossible for me to give a straight answer (much like talking to electricians :) I'm very much in the knows just enough to be dangerous category.

Aaron

I know the theory, so it's like communism, which also works in theory

Aarthi

Ahahaa what you guys are plenty chatty yourselves :D

Steve Jackson

@Aarthi We needed your touch though. I was about to call it when you waved your magic chatty wand.

Aarthi

@SteveJackson D'awww.

Shucks, I just popped in and looked around all confused-like

Steve Jackson

22:30

How's the fam? Enjoying some warmer weather in Plano? It's 70 here today.

I'm going to have to cut my grass on Dec 31st. I'm really having a hard time with this.

Aarthi

It's like 64 here, it was pretty amazing. I went to the park and everything.

Haha, oh man lawnmoving in December is soooo bizarre

it's like freezingish in New York. Soooo glad I'm here.

Steve Jackson

My grass was dead - DEAD - all summer and now my yard is green and overgrown.

Aarthi

Dang, and we're on Stage 3 Water Restrictions up here.

Steve Jackson

They said we got more rain last week than we'd received all year. Brought in this warm front and my yard thinks it's monsoon season.

Aarthi

oh gosh

Steve Jackson

22:36

Anyway, I'm going to wrap up some things and head out. I'll be around tomorrow, but for everyone else: Happy New Year!

Aarthi

we need it to rain here pretty hard

mmk! /waves take care~

Aarthi

22:50

i'm out, too, everyone. I'll see y'all when I get back to new york :)

Jeff Ferland

Time to play with live wires....

scratch that. time to play with dead wires.

BMitch

@JeffFerland what about playing dead with live wires?

I'm off until the new year myself. Have a great one everyone!

Project Update Thursday - 29 Dec 2011

Transcript for