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12:15 PM
Disappointed that "hacky" answers on this question are getting up votes.
2
Q: How can I run a coaxial cable into an existing single gang electrical outlet?

mattzThe cable outlet in my girlfriend's living room is in a strange place. She wants to move her TV to a different wall but the landlord doesn't want any new holes in the wall or floor. If the wall was just painted drywall I'd just put a hole in the wall and patch it later when she moves out but th...

 
dude wants to modify a 120v outlet to have a coax line in it. thats crazy
 
@lsiunsuex Your answer was not bad.
 
thank you. no reason dude can't work something out with the landlord and either hire someone to do it to make the landlord happy or pay the landlord to do it
for a pro, what would it take, a couple hours? no big deal
other hand, if the landlord is suck a dick about doing something like that, what else is he being a dick about? maybe she should find a new apt
 
12:44 PM
wave
I return
 
Whats up?
 
1:00 PM
catching up on overdue forum reading
you?
 
shopping for a tv
how was montreal
with coupon code this is down to $508 bit.ly/LunEic but i don't need a 40 for the office.
 
Montreal was, from what I could tell, almost perpetually cold and dark.
Mainly because I almost never left the office building during daylight.
I arrived at night, I went into the office before sunrise, left after sunrise - one day we did go out to lunch, the sun was up then
and I saw the airport grounds by daylight as we took off and there appeared to be sunlight on the city but that could have been a projection ;)
 
sounds about right for being that far north
shitty you didn't get to see the city - its quite beautiful
 
With all my contract work, they never sent me south for the winter or north for the summer. I think it was a conspiracy to make my life suck a little more.
Instead, they would send me to Buffalo in December and Phoenix in August.
No amount of business casual can handle a January in St Paul, MN.
 
1:16 PM
tomorrow its actually 60 here in buffalo :)
 
@lsiunsuex Last December I was there, it was sub freezing and lake effect was in full force.
 
its always hit or miss in buffalo - could be calm and decent, could be windy and freezing
 
I think that was about 10 years ago now, but I still remember how unhappy my client was about dealing with another winter. They really should have moved to FL if they disliked the weather so much.
 
how funny would it be if we were your client you visit in buffalo
can't imagine there are to many IBM shops in buffalo
 
@lsiunsuex Haha, did you used to be affiliated with Marriott and happen to be in the food service industry?
 
1:20 PM
no
 
Good, I can still trash talk my old clients :)
 
@lsiunsuex I got to see a little of Old Montreal at night - saw Notre Dame via the cab window opposite where I was sitting (aka - I saw the steps)
 
YEY!
Reeds jewelers is an IBM shop, the casinos obviously (both sides, usa and canada), some small private shops i know of. didnt know Marriott was an IBM shop
@TheEvilGreebo old Montreal was cool. Friends are going in January for skiing but I wont be able to take off; dentist stuff going on then
goo.gl/l6po1 - iMac 27 inch Vesa mount - $40 - Replace the TV in the Kitchen - wireless keyboard and mouse - she can look at recipes and stuff when she cooks - take the TV in the kitchen and put it in the office - problem solved for $40
 
2:17 PM
@lsiunsuex I'm not sure they are, Marriott was an indirect reference so I can still claim that I never revealed a client name :)
I've seen enough IBM shops to know that there are boat loads of IBM shops. And when you get into the fortune 500's, they tend to be an "everything shop."
 
2:44 PM
I never move but to get coffee anyway so... not a problem!
 
3:14 PM
anyone got a recommendation on a <$100 compressor? Looking for something light duty (inflate tires, refurb a caliper, run the occasional nailer) stuff like that
 
I've got a craftsman compressor I've been happy with for years
dunno if they make one < 100psi tho
 
@TheEvilGreebo I'm good with that, looking for <100$ more pressure is good
and they've got a small one on sale :)
 
I think you're gonna be fine with just about any 3 gal style
 
@TheEvilGreebo cool, that's what I've been looking at. Some of the reviews on Amazon a really crappy
amazon.com/gp/product/B002O15NRS/… is the one I'm looking at
 
never used one so I'd look at the reviews closely
 
3:33 PM
gonna get it, worst thing that happens is I have to send it back...
actually worst thing that happens is that it works for a month or two, long enough that I can't send it back, then it stops working...but whatever
ok, now I can actually fix my brakes this weekend...
 
@waxeagle You're probably not using impact wrench; or any other useful mechanic tool, with a small compressor.
 
@Tester101 no, you need about 30 psi to remove a caliper piston so it should be fine
I can deal with hand tools...I do need to get a breaker bar though somehow lost my lug wrench that conveniently doubled as one...
 
4:13 PM
It is highly unlikely a water heater will explode. Even the MythBusters had a hard time getting one to blow up on purpose in the 2007 season.
0
Q: How long will it be before my hot water heater blows up without a thermal expansion tank?

johnnythe county where I live put in the "check valve" or backflow device. Not sure, but I know they said you need to get a thermal expansion tank or the pressure could blow up the water heater. I spoke to a plumber, talked to other pros, and they said it wouldn't immediately make my water heater go ...

The T&P valve will have to be removed, along with other modifications.
 
@Tester101 yeah, I remember them having a really hard time with that. However, the results, if it does happen are rather spectacular
 
KAWHOOOOSH
 
@TheEvilGreebo right through your multi story house :)
 
I'm no thermal expansion expert, but I'm not sure a normal water heater, under normal conditions, would create a pipe bursting amount of pressure.
 
Yup :)
@Tester101 I suspect the water heater would fail first
unless you have a weak solder join somewhere
 
4:19 PM
Until I see some actual calculations, I'm just not convinced it's that much pressure. But I've been wrong before.
 
@Tester101 shouldn't the valve fire first?
 
The T&P valve will open long before the water heater itself is damaged. But I'm not sure about other fixtures.
 
@Tester101 Wasn't Mythbusters tracking pressure and temp? Anyone remember what the pressure was?
300lbs/sqin sounds familiar but might be my imagination
 
4:39 PM
Another problem solved with a subpanel. Thanks Jay.
0
A: Could I use a UPS to power my humidifier on an underrated breaker with a little trickery

Jay BazuziYou may be able to solve this problem with a subpanel. The wiring to the furnace is probably beefy already. Feed the subpanel with the cable that currently goes to the furnace. Add a breaker in the subpanel for the new circuit to the furnace. Add a circuit for the humidifier. To know for sure i...

 
@TheEvilGreebo I'm betting on the washing machine hoses failing before the hot water heater tank.
 
@BMitch Depends - braided metal? Maybe not...
 
Hmm, braided metal vs welded metal, we need a cage match. There's also the hookup lines for sinks and toilets.
In my house, it was the valve on my toilet and shower that failed first. Then the TPR valve triggered.
@TheEvilGreebo Just watched the video, 315 PSI, TPR valve should trigger much lower.
 
4:55 PM
Indeed
 
5:05 PM
Pipe has to have minimum 160 psi rating, I think. T&P valve will trip before that.
 
Those water heater explosions are some of the best mythbusters videos
 
I believe PEX is only rated to 100PSI at 180F
 
where it punches through 2 stories of a building
 
"Maximum working pressure of 160 psi" Says Home depot.
 
youtube.com/watch?v=5p5qUAT4RzY least we forget the Gone in 60 seconds chase scene through the construction site
 
5:14 PM
@Tester101 that doesn't specify temp/pressure
this does
Pressure Ratings

100psi at 180F
160psi at 74F
 
@Aaron yes, freaking amazing. The fact that we all have the potential for this sitting in our home is somewhat terrifying.
 
@TheEvilGreebo Is that ambient temp, pipe temp, or fluid temp?
 
@Tester101 I don't know! Geez, I only posted what I thought - I wasn't expecting some kind of Spanish Inquisition!!!
 
burn @TheEvilGreebo at the stake!
3
 
@lsiunsuex Geek card. Hand it over now. You failed.
 
5:17 PM
:(
 
@Tester101 srsly tho - does it matter? if the fluid is 180F the pipe soon will be
:7110381 Thank you
Oops you can't take it back!
 
I WAS going to say, after you do 50 hours of Monty Python Refreshing you can have it back
 
@TheEvilGreebo Maybe not if the ambient temp is -20.
 
@Tester101 well then it'll explode cause it froze so...
 
5:21 PM
@TheEvilGreebo If the fluid was 180F, and the ambient temp is -20F, wouldn't the pipe temp be somewhere in the middle?
 
on a shitty note - had our benefits meeting this morning - rates going up $50 / paycheck
 
@lsiunsuex Could be worse, you could be this kid.
 
could be
 
@lsiunsuex same here
 
Think of all the fly swatters that kid could buy for $50.00.
 
5:26 PM
@Tester101 naturally
I object to the injection of someone who's worse off into our bitch fest about our trivial problems!
 
@TheEvilGreebo Just something to think about this Christmas, when you're having trouble hooking up that 70" flat screen.
 
@Tester101 Thanks but I don't accept unearned guilt. It's hard enough keeping up with all my earned guilt as it is.
 
<-- gets down off soap box.
The worst part is, that picture was probably take with a $12000.00 camera.
 
5:42 PM
I'm not saying poverty isn't horrible. I'm simply saying the fact that poverty exists doesn't mean we're responsible for it, and that people have worse problems than we do doesn't mean we don't have problems.
In most cases you'll find that the poverty is often directly related to the local Governmental policies - not a heck of a lot we can do about that. My cousin spent time in the peace corps and no amount of generosity to those in need can fix a corrupt political system.
 
I'm not saying the problem can be solved. It just helps to put you problems into perspective from time to time.
 
@Tester101 Your starvation is troubling. My pinky hangnail is a tragedy.
now if we can move on to IMPORTANT matters
my contract w/ verizon is up - I need a good phone update for renewal
shopping on amazonwireless
 
iPhone!
 
@lsiunsuex die
<-- android lover :)
 
no self respecting nerd carries anything but apple products - best of both worlds! *nix and non-shitty windows 8 metro shit
 
5:49 PM
tell it to my non apple carrying department ;)
 
Samsung Galaxy Note II, S III, or Nexus
 
i don't think i want to go with motorola again - the droid was glitchy
the nexus... hmm not seeing it on amazon
 
engadget.com/2012/11/21/… looks cool but no real phone yet
 
the lg intiution is available - any thoughts?
 
i actually like windows phones - as i always say though, i'm so heavily invested in the apple stores, i'd have to start over
 
5:56 PM
Why buy an Android phone, if it doesn't have Jelly Bean (4.1). especially if you're going to be with it for 2 years.
Might as well get the latest and greatest.
 
help me out here - jelly bean?
 
Android is a Linux-based operating system designed primarily for touchscreen mobile devices such as smartphones and tablet computers. Initially developed by Android, Inc., whom Google financially backed and later purchased in 2005, Android was unveiled in 2007 along with the founding of the Open Handset Alliance: a consortium of hardware, software, and telecommunication companies devoted to advancing open standards for mobile devices. The first Android-powered phone was sold in October 2008. Android is open source and Google releases the code under the Apache License. This open source co...
 
Jelly beans are a small bean-shaped type of confectionery with a hard candy shell and a gummy interior which come in a wide variety of flavors. The confection is primarily made of sugar. History The Turkish Delight, a Middle Eastern sweet made of soft jelly, covered in confectioner's powder, was an early precursor to the jelly bean that inspired its gummy interior.. However, it is generally thought that jelly beans first surfaced in 1861 when Boston confectioner, William Schrafft, urged people to send his jelly beans to soldiers during the American Civil War. It wasn't until July 5, 19...
 
was seriously disappointed to realize that the kindle fire has to be rooted to get the google play store :(
 
mind you it had better be on sale on amazonwireless - course I can wait too :)
 
6:00 PM
Android 2.3 - Gingerbread
3.1-3.2 - Honeycomb
4.0 - Ice Cream Sandwich
4.1-4.2 - Jelly Bean
 
my christmas gift to myself was on sale :) (or, how i convince the wife to let me buy a watch > $1000)
 
copy that thanks @Tester101
 
Wait... You just bought a $1000 watch, and you're bitching about 50 bucks!
 
$1300 actually - i hate doctors so i wont use the benefits, but i can't leave the house without a watch on
 
Take the watch back, and you'll break even.
 
6:03 PM
had i known the price of benefits were going up on friday and not today, i may have questioned my purchase - no regrets - what has happened has happened - i'll make more money tomorrow :)
 
i don't store much on my phone - 8gb would be fine for me
 
@TheEvilGreebo Thought you didn't want Motorola?
 
actually I really liked it until the latest OS update
which is 3. something ...
so i'm not ruling it out completely
 
i always get the base model - the iphone starts at 16gb i think? its fine
always have the ass's that drop a grand on 64gb storage... crazy
 
@lsiunsuex You dropped a grand on a watch!
 
6:14 PM
but i'll have that watch for 10 years (hopefully)
i get a new iphone every release cycle
 
Doesn't the iPhone have a watch app?
Or a wrist strap?
 
yeah, but i can't wear it on my wrist
i have a bicep strap for working out (when i did) but thats not cool
 
sheer genius
today - essex MD
 
quick! print a darwin award and put it on his windshield
then again, what moron designed the neighborhood and put the power lines in front of the houses. ours are in the back
 
@lsiunsuex Some moron in 1940ish
 
6:19 PM
We don't have power lines around here, just a magic cable that comes into the basement and connects to the service panel.
It must draw power from the ground.
 
@Tester101 tesla coil
 
All you suckers pay for power, then put it into the ground. While I suck it up for free!
 
@Tester101 I feel like such a loser.
 
excuse me while i euthanize myself
 
Why do you think I always tell people they need a ground wire?
 
6:21 PM
I thought it was a myth
 
finished the spare room finally
 
Oh hey Tester! electrical question for you!
 
for now anyways - will do trim / baseboards in the spring
 
i was just gonna ask bout the trim
looks good
 
thanks
 
6:26 PM
@Tester101 Is there a name for a circuit breaker like switch which has 2 inputs and 1 output ?
 
@TheEvilGreebo Is this a trick question?
 
no...
we lose power all too often, so I want to rig up a cutover switch (lemme guess, that's the name) for my furnace where I can plug it into an extension cord into it and flip the furnace over to generator power and back again easily
 
Transfer switch
A transfer switch is an electrical switch that reconnects electric power source from its primary source to a standby source. Switches may be manually or automatically operated. An Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS) is often installed where a backup generator is located, so that the generator may provide temporary electrical power if the utility source fails. Operation of a transfer switch As well as transferring the load to the backup generator, an ATS also commands the backup generator to start, based on the voltage monitored on the primary supply. The transfer switch isolates the backup ge...
They're not that difficult to hook up, if you're not afraid of working in the panel.
 
@Tester101 i'm not afraid of the panel but I was looking for something on a smaller scale
something I could mount on the furnace body itself
 
maybe an A/B switch?
 
6:31 PM
They make transfer switches for single circuits.
The biggest problem you want to avoid is backfeeding
 
@Tester101 not something i'll likely find in home depot?
 
You could kill somebody.
 
yeah I want it to definitely be only one source at a time - no linking generator to the panel
 
you would want a break before make thing or whatever it's called
 
I think HD sells transfer switches. Though it might only be site to store.
@Aaron Correct.
 
6:33 PM
they are selling them under the whole kit umbrella so no less than a couple hundred from what i'm seeing
@Aaron yeah
 
That should be just what you need.
 
nice but that's 220 - mine's gas w/ a 120v blower
so kind of overkill
 
Model # TF151 It's 125V 15A.
 
oh i see
the pic looked like 220 for a sec
For use with generators up to 1850 running watts
hmm mines 5500W
mind you that is exactly what i had in mind of building
i just figured i'd build it myself for $50/ish
 
If you build it yourself, it's not UL listed and so not code compliant.
If it caused a fire, your insurance would not cover it.
 
6:39 PM
fair point
but $100... man at that point I'd think about just going to homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202213700/h_d2/…
 
That is an interesting piece of equipment
Do you just install it inline?
 
@TheEvilGreebo If your generator's got the juice. Why not?
@Aaron inline? sort of.
 
@Tester101 cause i was thinking the larger one would be cost prohibitive
this confuses me
why does the paired breaker on the left switch the middle two circuits on the right?
 
Why does that transfer switch box go over by the panel instead of over by the furnace?
 
@Aaron generally you put transfer switches next to the breaker box so it's all in one place I think
usually you're adding them later
so you need to be close tot he existing panel or the existing lines wont reach
 
6:45 PM
@Aaron It has to do with "disconnecting means" and line of sight, code stuff.
 
Sadly my furnace is not on a dedicated circuit (I know, don't get me started)
 
i like this one much better:
 
@TheEvilGreebo I'm not sure, that's not a good picture, I can't really see what's going on. It sort of looks like a lockout, not a handle tie.
 
@TheEvilGreebo do you then have to move the circuits you want covered into the "outside" transfer box?
 
6:48 PM
@Aaron i think that's right - you power the transfer switch like a sub panel and move the lines from the breaker box over to the switch
the generac model makes it very clear - no confusing split switch
 
ugh, what a whole lot of work, I'd just replace the whole load center with one with a transfer center built in
 
@Aaron i suppose those are around there somewhere
not sure what kind of market those have tho so might be pricey
generators being after thoughts, usually
 
@TheEvilGreebo True, I mean the ones for permanent generators I think
 
Here is the basic idea...
 
I suppose most multi line transfer switches connect to a 2 pole 30A (or whatever limit) breaker in the main panel for the utility feed
 
6:59 PM
No. There will be a Line/Load wire for each circuit the transfer switch can control. So if you have a 12 circuit transfer, you'll have 24 wires + neutral and ground coming out of the transfer.
 
@Tester101 so hitting either breaker will kill the power? or do you have to hit the breaker for the current supply?
 
@waxeagle If you are on utility power, switching the breaker in the panel will kill the power to the circuit. If on gen. power, switching the breaker in the panel will do nothing.
 
@Tester101 gotcha
 
oic
is that mandatory?
wouldn't it be more efficient to power the bus from either gen or ... oh i see then it's all or nothing
 
But there are transfer/service panels like @TheEvilGreebo linked to. Where the whole panel is replaced with a new panel that has an internal transfer.
@TheEvilGreebo That's why the main breakers are tied together in that image. You can only have power from util. or gen. not both.
 
7:08 PM
@Tester101 circuit by circuit control like what you showed here?
 
@TheEvilGreebo In that device, you'll have a full sized circuit breaker on the wires feeding the circuits in the transfer switch case (instead of a fuse/ mini breaker).
I left that out of my original drawing as well.
So on Util. power, switch the breaker in the panel to kill the circuit. When on Gen. power, switch the breaker in the transfer to kill the circuit.
 
tho on util power switching the breaker in the txfr box would work too
 
Yes
 
ah!
i was wondering how they would get such a narrow cable profile
1. Turn off the refrigerator circuit breaker. Loosen the screw that secures the wire to the circuit breaker. Disconnect the wire from the circuit breaker.
2. On the transfer switch, find the black and red wires marked C.
3. Feed the red wire to the selected breaker, in this case the refrigerator breaker.
4. Cut the red wire C to a convenient length. Strip approximately 5/8" from the end of the wire. Connect the red wire to the refrigerator circuit breaker and retighten the screw.
5. Cut the black wire C to a convenient length for aligning with the wire removed from the refrigerator circuit
you don't reroute the line from breaker box to txfr box
you inject the txfr box in between breaker and line
 
Right.
 
7:21 PM
oh that's not bad at all
that'll definitely be on my future project list
 
You'll have to read the documentation with your generator though, since you might have to disconnect the neutral ground bond at the generator to use a transfer switch (or get a transfer that switches neutral and ground too).
Otherwise you can end up with a ground loop.
I was going to write a blog post about transfer switches, be decided it was too advanced for the average DIYer.
 
i'll be sure to do that - hopefully if i get a generac box to go with my generac generator it'll be pretty straight forward
the install instructions do show the txfr panel grounding to the main panel
hmm
no mention is made in the generator documentation other than that the ground lug on the generator needs to be grounded
 
@TheEvilGreebo I think in your example transfer (the one with full sized breakers), the breakers might be on the other side of the transfer switch. So in that case, the breaker in the transfer switch would only work when on Gen. power. But I could be wrong.
 
7:36 PM
no, in the docs for the last one i linked you have a red and black coming from tx to main panel
oh i see
you mean on line it may bypass its own breaker
but it seems to me the wiring to accomplish that would be tricky
 
Right.
 
unless...
 
Not really. and actually it makes more sense.
 
generator -> internal breaker -> a/b switch -> load -> neutral
util -> a/b switch -> load -> neutral
?
(a/b switch for lack of better term)
 
The Gen. power feeds onto lugs just like in a regular panel, the breakers tap the lugs using blades (just like a regular panel), then a wire is connected to the breakers lug and the transfer switch, which then feeds back to the panel.
So from the generators perspective, the breakers are before the transfer switch.
And also from the Util. the breakers are before the transfer switch.
Actually. That seems to be the case in the other models too. "push-to-reset circuit breaker that protects the branch circuit when the circuit selector is in the GEN position. In the LINE position, each branch circuit is protected by the breaker in the load center."
 
7:50 PM
that does make sense
 
So it actually looks like this...
 
so here's a diff question
speaking of grounding
since you hardwire the ground from the generator plug to the tx box and the tx connects to ground in the panel, is the entire generator then grounded?
 
Yes.
 
ok thought so, good
 
The problem is. Sometimes generators have a jumper that bonds neutral to ground at the Gen. So if that jumper is not disconnected, you'll have a ground loop (neutral will be bonded in the service panel and at the generator).
 
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