TRPG General Chat

7:00 PM

I am still unresolved. Hence the question.

Because daring feats of panache and brazen displays of sword work are what swashbucklers are all about, and synergize really nicely with the highwayman theme

KorvinStarmast

yep, there's a lot to like in that kit.

BaconyRevanant

But Arcane Tricksters save you a feat slot and give you lots of other goodies

KorvinStarmast

How so? Save me a feat slot? I'd still want the pistol/hand crossbow schtick.

BaconyRevanant

Hmmm

KorvinStarmast

7:02 PM

(My bard has a wand of magic missiles as her piratical pistol, not gonna do that again)

BaconyRevanant

I mean, you don't technically need the feat though, you can still off-hand attack with like a thrown dagger and such

KorvinStarmast

Also, the party is short handed with arcane magic, another reason AT made the final cut

BaconyRevanant

After all, a highwayman should be ready with both a gun and a blade

KorvinStarmast

Yes, that's part of the thematics ...

BaconyRevanant

Ah, yeah, that would help clinch it

But i really think Crossbow Expert doesn't give you enugh value to truly be worth taking

KorvinStarmast

7:04 PM

I can wait a bit for an answer, I don't see the campaign starting for another month, but I want to be ready. (I also like to give a DM a heads up on my char)

BaconyRevanant

I know you mentioned Sharpshooter not having a great payoff at low levels, but it might be the overall better option for ranged feats

KorvinStarmast

@BaconyRevanant Hmm, I may be taking it just for its low level benefits - the DM does not pull punches. (Has not in the past) Part of the bit is "get through Tier 1 alive" and we generally agree that (1) best defense is a good offense and (2) only fight when you can set the terms. Scouting and movement are something our group likes ... based on past experience. I get the idea that druid will be controller ... but I have no idea what star circle looks like in play

BaconyRevanant

Obviously making ranged attacks with spell it pretty much a no-go since you can't apply Sneak Attack

KorvinStarmast

@BaconyRevanant Yep, which is where having two chances with hand xbow comes into play.

(And I am not reluctant to apply poisons to the bolts ...)

BaconyRevanant

Hand bow has range 60/240 right?

or is it less?

KorvinStarmast

7:07 PM

Lemme check ...

30/120

BaconyRevanant

Oh, that's way less

KorvinStarmast

Which brings us to "Do I need SS" for my concept so that I never had disad on the attack? ...

BaconyRevanant

Now I don't feel nearly as conflicted about the range difference between throwing darts and using the bow

SS?

KorvinStarmast

Sharpshooter. Targets have no partial nor 3/4 cover, long range does not give disadvantage, and the old -5 / + 10 deal.

BaconyRevanant

Although, one other point to consider: rogues are literally the only class that have the advantage of gaining an actual numerical benefit from casting True Strike

@KorvinStarmast Oh, derp. I knew that

KorvinStarmast

7:11 PM

@BaconyRevanant yes, but I am not sure that the DM will let me sneak up, cast the cantrip, and still be 'hidden' when I try to make that attack to start combat ... need to discuss with him

BaconyRevanant

Yeah, sharpshooter gives you a way bigger advantage than XX, especially the "no disadvantage for long range"

@KorvinStarmast You don't cast prior to combat, you already have advantage for being hidden. You cast it during in situations where you would be otherwise unable to make a Sneak Attack

KorvinStarmast

But you only get one shot. 😋

@BaconyRevanant hmm, so cast and then bonus action disengage, and then you get adv next time?

BaconyRevanant

True, with SS, you only get to attack "once", but there's a major upside you're forgetting

@KorvinStarmast basically

KorvinStarmast

With Tasha's rule, if I stand still for a ranged attack I get advantage ... need to make sure DM is good with that one.

AncientSwordRage

@BaconyRevanant I love them, I love spice. I just can't handle it any more.

BaconyRevanant

7:14 PM

So for Sneak Attack, you either need Advantage, or you need an ally within 5', and not have disadvantage

KorvinStarmast

@AncientSwordRage wife and I have been going savory more than spice of late ... even my chili got turned down to 1 alarm from 2 to 3 alarm chili.

BaconyRevanant

This means that with SS, you can sneak attack from maximum range against targets that can't see you, or against enemies that are already engaged with the fighter

Without SS, you must be within 30' of an enemy to apply SA with a hand Xbow

KorvinStarmast

@BaconyRevanant The "if they can't see you" is where I get auto advantage, yes?

BaconyRevanant

With SS, you can apply SA from as far as 120' away

KorvinStarmast

@BaconyRevanant yes

BaconyRevanant

7:16 PM

@KorvinStarmast Yes. If I can't see you (regardless of why) your attacks have advantage against me

KorvinStarmast

@BaconyRevanant Yes, although I am not sure our party will be that spread out that often ... and I can't take the feat until much later anyway

BaconyRevanant

You can't take SS until later?

I'm saying you should take it instead of Xbow Xpert

at level 1

KorvinStarmast

Constraint: hand xbow, CBE feat is a part of the build. SS without it I have not thought through yet ... lemme think ...

BaconyRevanant

I think it's more beneficial, even if you can't really get much use from the -5/+10

KorvinStarmast

If I AT I swap the cha to 10 and the int to 14, though.

BaconyRevanant

7:19 PM

If you go Swashbuckler, use the stat line you already displayed. If you go AT, I think you'll want something more like Str 10, Dex 15(+1), Con 12, Int 13(+1), Wis 10, Cha 13

Since you'll want to have good saves on your spells

KorvinStarmast

Yeah

Opens up a half feat at 8 or 10.

BaconyRevanant

You could theoretically dump Str or Wis for 1 more point for Cha, but IDK if that's ideal

@KorvinStarmast Exactly

And which half-feat you want will determine which odd score you don't bump

KorvinStarmast

@BaconyRevanant Nope, not gonna dump Str nor Wis. I hate - on a die roll. Personal quirk.

BaconyRevanant

@KorvinStarmast Same

KorvinStarmast

Meat Space Summons me ...

BaconyRevanant

7:23 PM

And there are quite a few good 1/2 feats that boost Dex or Int or Cha (Alertness comes to mind)

Cat of doom2

soooo

i don't want my boss to just be hanging out with minions but I want him to have them. can I give him a summoning ability?

AncientSwordRage

Normally you roast bell peppers for a Romesco sauce, but I've been using green ones raw

@KorvinStarmast I feel you

@Catofdoom2 why couldn't you?

G. Moylan

You can make your boss do whatever you want

Action Oriented Monsters | Running the Game #84

►

Cat of doom2

thank you

GcL

@Catofdoom2 Why bother having minions and henchmen if they're not going to be around to bring you your pink champagne? What if you have to stab a beast with steely knives? Minions are nice to have around for those sorts of things.

Cat of doom2

7:32 PM

soooo... should it be written down as a move or can I just randomly do it

G. Moylan

@Catofdoom2 You can do it however but if it helps you to write it down then do so

You might do it as a lair action of sorts

Cat of doom2

@GcL i'd want severents but my boss isn't me

GcL

Surprise summons are an unwelcome surprise for the players. You generally get a limited number of unwelcome surprises before the game ceases to be fun for the players. I expect that is the actual limiting factor.

BaconyRevanant

Pro tip: They're not true servants unless they come from the Serveau region of the plane of Law. Otherwise they're just sparkling minions.

2

GcL

If you can give the players at least three to ten heads up clues that are no less subtle than a sledge hammer hitting a church bell, then you've probably got a 50/50 chance it won't be a surprise.

@Catofdoom2 Probably have it cost them an action. Magic cursed whistle or ill-advised spell. Something you can narrate easily is good. Also makes it easy for the characters to hear rumors or accounts of the ability before encountering it in person.

Cat of doom2

7:40 PM

is summoning 1 minotaur and fleeing and then when that minotaur is killed it becomes a skeleton minotaur to mean?

@GcL @G.Moylan

G. Moylan

It's not unreasonable depending on how strong everyone is. I'm not at your table so I can't make that judgement, only you can.

GcL

Do you ever find yourself having to flee from adventurers? Trap doors are dusty! teleport is expensive! and ninja smoke bombs are bad for your lungs! Try the new and improved mini-taur. It's a full sized minotaur shrunk down into a pill size. Just add water and let it do the work letting you go on your nefarious way. Just three easy payments of 19.99.

@Catofdoom2 The summon is one unwelcome surprise. You're compounding it with another unwelcome surprise. If you know your players tolerance for that kind of thing, go ahead.

Cat of doom2

8:08 PM

@GcL ok, and good joke

GcL

People find predictability satisfying, and a bit of uncertainty adds some interest and drama. Some examples are: figuring out a puzzle, throwing the ball to where the player will be, cutting the rope holding the chandelier at the right moment, or preparing for years by building up an immunity to iocaine powder so you can match wits with a Sicilian when death is on the line.

G. Moylan

AH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHa---

GcL

If you build a world and situations where the players can anticipate, plan, and get good results, you'll have a satisfying sandbox to play in. Stuff happening unexpectedly all the time is a recipe for the players being disengaged and just waiting for the world to happen around them.

G. Moylan

If you want to use both normal and undead minotaur perhaps the minions all show up as minotaur when summoned, then later at some climactic fight the minions are minotaur skeletons

GcL

@G.Moylan I like the story behind that. The BBEG returns the minotaurs as defective because they were "guaranteed against all adventurers great and small". Minions & Monsters Inc. accepts the return and gives back an "equivalent CR" substitution... it's just the undead minotaur.

G. Moylan

8:20 PM

@GcL the same minotaur

AncientSwordRage

@Catofdoom2 so a concrete example of what @gcl is saying, you can subtly hint at the minotau, but not the skeleton version

G. Moylan

just undead

Cat of doom2

soooo

rumors of a large bull in the area?

GcL

@AncientSwordRage Subtle for the DM is entirely unnoticeable for the players usually. Go with subtle hints that are about as sneaky as a grenade in a drum store. Those have a chance of being noticed, remembered, and acted upon.

@Catofdoom2 Like a story by a tavern patron telling an account of why BBEG is so dangerous to cross. "A man who orders around minotaurs is a hard man to stop"

AncientSwordRage

@GcL yeah, for got to translate

Cat of doom2

8:24 PM

@GcL sould i say COULD order a minotaur around

AncientSwordRage

too subtle

GcL

@Catofdoom2 Couple with some accounts of mercenaries that say they won't work for the guy anymore because he's got a pet bull-man.

Then maybe have a large stone statue of a minotaur at the BBEG's official residence in town or something.

With those three, I'd give it 50/50 the players sort out there will be a minotaur in their near future. Also, make sure there is one. Chekhov's Gun

Cat of doom2

thats some bullshit (pun idtended)

(intended)

MikeQ

This isn't bad advice, but it may be overthinking it. Foreshadowing and Chekov's Gun are more important for giving the players an opportunity to prepare. Is there a specific threat or challenge posed by a minotaur, which the players can prepare against? Is there some weakness the players can plan to exploit?

GcL

@MikeQ It means that when the BBEG "surprises" the group with an insta-minotaur they can be satisfied that "they knew that was coming."

Takes an unwelcome surprise and may make a satisfying one out of it. Or at least mitigate some of the out-of-the-blue badness about it.

MikeQ

8:31 PM

And? Supposing the players know that a minotaur could appear, how would they act differently?

Yuuki

@MikeQ they might bring a ball of yarn?

although i suppose that's more for finding their way back out of the labyrinth

MikeQ

Usually the point of cluing and foreshadowing is to give players an opportunity to prepare, so that they can feel smart for their decisions and for remembering clues. If preparing doesn't make a difference, then it's not really worth focusing on it.

GcL

I would leave that to them to figure out. If they start asking about things minotaurs are particularly weak about, that would be a tiny side jaunt to a nearby local that "might know about such things"

If the players engage in prep, good for them. Run with it. If they don't, it might mitigate or convert the experience of unwelcome surprise to something less bad.

Off the cuff, if the players were looking for something the minotaurs found repellant, I'd have a brief lite side quest to meet an interesting local, do a thing, and find out that they don't know what it is that repels, them, but by golly do they dislike.... uhh.... cinnamon. Eating a cinnabun is a good way to get a minotaur punch.

I would expect my player group would then order the tanky character a dozen cinnamon muffins to go before heading out. Make sure the tank does the tanking.

But really... I just hung a little "Yes, and..." poster behind my monitor and run with whatever they come up with the best I can.

AncientSwordRage

8:50 PM

@trogdor \\oo/

trogdor

Hello

bobble

  /o\
 /o\/o\
/o\/o\/o\

trogdor

Lol

AncientSwordRage

@bobble I learnt an interesting quirk of age and year of birth the other day but I'm struggling to make it into a puzzle

bobble

What kind of puzzle are you interested in making?

puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/…

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there's four links, just enough to be annoying, probably :)

AncientSwordRage

8:56 PM

something on the lines of Jim was born in 1935, his friend is 35 years old, how many years apart were they born?

based on the fact that is someone is born in '35 and someone born in '48 when the younger of the two is 35, the other has to be 48

now, that's easy to work out, but it's a neat shortcut

I'd have to say something like "How did she work it out so fast?"

which is not a good Q

bobble

hmm, not sure how to help

AncientSwordRage

yeah, I think it's a non-starter

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KorvinStarmast

11:14 PM

I had a car with one of those, a non starter. We'd push it and I'd pop the clutch. '74 Super Beetle, VW.

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BESW

17 hours left on Kickstarter: Fly Softly by Kira Magrann. A solarpunk game about butterfly hybrids sowing the future, one seed at a time

The Strix made a twitter post about the usefulness of rituals in narrative design, with recommended reading.

A. B.

11:55 PM

@BESW What's that even mean?

BESW

"Engaging Players Through Ritual" by Brandon Franklin on Gamasutra. (examples of ritual in video game design)

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