TRPG General Chat

12:34 AM

That moment when I think I did more damage to the undead dragon than the epic sorceress and the player tells me "I couldn't do more because I didn't want to show Zachiel and the others what I'm really capable of". T_T

Mike Q

That's some grade-A shenanigans, where A stands for Anime

You were not ready to see my TRUE POWER

Zachiel

The problem: she's an evil enchantress and pyromancer that poses as a decently powerful good-doer, I'm a good priest of a good deity.

Mike Q

You call it a problem, I call it a sitcom

Zachiel

@MikeQ yeah but ME, THE PLAYER is curious now

I asked the other player

Let's see what she replies

Joshua

1:29 AM

Ugh; we broke our model of D&D today. Level 14 Illusionist casts Illusion for a foot-diameter black hole, then illusionary reality to make it real for one minute. We know objects created by illusionary reality can't do damage to PCs or NPCs, so we can't figure out if this action can be made sense of. It should destroy the planet but ...

Knowing what a black hole is is not so hard if you're willing to use True Seeing with a spyglass.

Shalvenay

@Joshua "that's a mighty big spyglass you have there"

Joshua

Marvelous pigments permitted perfect optics

Shalvenay

@Joshua I suspect said black hole, thankfully, would have insufficient mass to self-sustain and thus would simply evaporate in a burst of Hawking radiation

Joshua

It immediately weighs a few thousand times that of the earth. If it doesn't self-sustain that's a lot of radiation.

Shalvenay

@Joshua it is a fair bit of Hawking radiation, aye

@Joshua keep in mind that 1 solar mass is insufficient to make a black hole, and 1 solar mass is about 333,000 times 1 terran mass

Joshua

1:37 AM

It would be one kind of everybody dies or another if not for the no damage rule.

Shalvenay

@Joshua you'd have to know the energy spectrum of the radiation emitted

I suspect the best you could hope for is "terribly sunburnt party" though

Joshua

It's a thousand times the earth's mass-energy. It doesn't matter what energy spectrum. It's gonna vaporize the planet.

Shalvenay

@Joshua that takes a lot of energy....

BESW

1:57 AM

Yeah, but falling damage maxes out at 20d6 after 200 feet, which means gravity doesn't work the same way in D&D and black holes are probably fictional.

Joshua

You know that's supposed to model terminal velocity right?

BESW

I know "supposed to" fails to cover a multitude of design sins, and that even a cursory glance at the way hit points work would have indicated to the designers that their model for falling damage was fundamentally flawed.

I assume that the illusory reality spell just turns the illusion of a black hole into a museum-quality diorama model of a black hole.

Joshua

lol now that's a good way of seeing it

user15026

@BESW That made me think of this for some reason

BESW

@Ash Perfect.

trogdor

2:13 AM

Oh god

That's like my most cartoonish nightmare

user15026

I know, right?

trogdor

2:31 AM

Falling down a hole I couldn't see is up there for sure

And that one does in fact look like will e coyote painted it on the ground

BESW

I hope that guy sues Kapoor and demands the rights to Vantablack as payment.

Shalvenay

@BESW how would you implement falling damage in a hit point based model, or is the problem hit points, not falling damage?

BESW

@Shalvenay Yes.

trogdor

Lol

BESW

The problem is trying to model something as unusual an edge case as terminal velocity, in a system that's using an extremely leaky abstraction to represent injury.

It's a fundamental mismatch of goals.

Shalvenay

2:43 AM

@BESW yeah, I'm not sure if there is a good abstraction for injury, come to think of it -- at least not when you are trying to model it independently of narrative concerns

BESW

A system that's okay with using HP to model injury isn't the same kind of system where terminal velocity is important enough to need a dedicated rule.

But if I had to make the smallest possible revision to the rules to make it moderately palatable without ripping out anything entirely... falling inflicts 10% of max health per 10 feet, and an appropriate skill check halves the damage.

Shalvenay

@BESW that kinda makes sense, yeah

BESW

3:02 AM

> Superhero landing. You can use Flashy to defend against the effects of falling, and if you roll better than a tie you get the boost Like a boss in addition to any other effects.

kviiri

5:40 AM

@V2Blast Just wanted to let you know that your answer to the recent Wish question is very good, especially the last paragraph. Good work!

kviiri

5:51 AM

I think it's a very sensible thing to point out that one shouldn't really pursue Wish for that end

V2Blast

Thanks! I thought it was starting to get a little bit long-winded but I figured it might be informative :)

The Oracle

6:45 AM

0

Q: Tags for basic moves in Dungeon World

I've just created a hack-and-slash tag and added it to a bunch of questions. I know generally we don't create tags for specific spells, class features etc, but in this case I feel it is warranted. Hack and Slash is one of the basic moves available to all player characters, and there are a lot of ...

Zachiel

12:48 PM

I don't want to have to go outside today, hunting for a decent price HDMI cable :(

NautArch

@Zachiel the cheapest one you can find is best. DO you need it for 4k?

Helwar

1:10 PM

@NautArch +1

Zachiel

@NautArch 1080p

aka FullHD

NautArch

@Zachiel If it's just 1080p, then get the cheapest one you can find. There's pretty much no difference between them besides brand name.

Helwar

I buy mine in an electronics store. THe place you would go to buy a switch or a doorbell. 5€ instead of the 15-20€ buying it elsewhere

NautArch

If you want to 'futureproof', then make sure it's hdmi 2.0 for 4k.

Zachiel

@Helwar I supposed so, and it was one of those places where I wanted to go. Still, 20€ for a standard relay doorbell... they mustn't be the cheapest around.

NautArch

1:14 PM

monoprice has typically been my go-to for generic cables.

Helwar

THe prices I wrote where for HDMI cables not doorbells :P

Zachiel

@Helwar I know. But if even doorbells cost a lot there...

NautArch

Rule 1: If it says MONSTER, don't buy it :)

Zachiel

I'm pretty sure, since my company deals with video recorders, that we have some old, non-4K-compliant cables I can bring home because nobosy is using them anymore. Maybe I should wait.

@NautArch Dang, what of my 3 D&D monster manuals then?

NautArch

@Zachiel Hmmm...send them to me.

i'll take a look

Zachiel

1:17 PM

@NautArch I don't buy it. XD

(the circle comes close)

NautArch

I think i'm finally going to watch Ready Player One...but can't decide if it's worth the extra $6 to rent it in 4k.

Helwar

eh? where are you renting it?

NautArch

@Helwar through directv

Helwar

hummm, don't know that platform

still I wouldn't have the dilemma, I don't have any screen capable of 4k :P

NautArch

@Helwar my old tv started failing and just upgraded.

@Helwar satellite TV.

Helwar

1:29 PM

Oh

I understand, I really don't watch any tv, at all

If I want to see something I watch it on my computer... can't handle having to see things when they decide :P

NautArch

My eye-patch/parrot on shoulder days are pretty much over :)

...for the most part.

Helwar

Oh, I do watch some things with an eye-patch, but also have an account on my cousin's netflix for witch I pay nothing :P

NautArch

@Helwar Isn't that waiting on when they decide still?

(aka when it goes onto netflix)

Helwar

well

technically yes

what I meant it, If I wanna see a movie now I go and press play, not wait until 10pm or whatever random time some guy decided

NautArch

@Helwar Oh! Yeah, i'm not on that boat either :) On Demand is a thing, though!

Helwar

1:43 PM

:)

NautArch

I think the only time I watch something when it's just 'on', is when i'm bored and channel surfing. And I come across The Thing, Smokey and the Bandit, or Rocky IV.

Helwar

I have a tv in my bedroom since I was 12, it had never been connected to the antenna. It was my "monitor" for consoles. I always prefer to play a game to watch a movie/series, but often I do both at the same time (if I'm playing something light)

@NautArch The only thing that I watch when is just "on" is Twitch streams xD And maybe the simpsons when we are having lunch, just because my family watches TV, if it is for me I don't even turn it on

NautArch

@Helwar I never grew up with a TV in my room. It wasn't until I went to college that I had my own TV :)

Helwar

My father didnt want to share the dining room TV for us to play games anymore so... TV in my room :)

NautArch

hehe, our old semi-broken TV went into the basement for the kids to have. But the Wii and my computer are still hooked up to the main tv. Because this guy games.

Helwar

1:54 PM

:)

NautArch

My 4 year old finally didn't finish last in a mario kart race. Super proud of her!

Helwar

haha

good!

how old are you? if it's not rude to ask

NautArch

Best thing is she's been just as happy to finish 11th and 12th :)

42

Helwar

@NautArch Good! (sorry, boss time, couldn't talk)

NautArch

@Helwar Doesn't feel good :)

Helwar

2:07 PM

Haha

it's better to have 42 that never reach 42

NautArch

and it is the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

Helwar

yes, I always get confused with it, and think it's 32

wich is my age

IF/when I have kids, I think I'll be the worst father ever. I'll never share my PC/Console :P

NautArch

Easier than you think...you get to play more games. You play games with them when they're awake, and then play your not kid approved games when they got to sleep. I figure it'll get more interesting once they're 14+.

Right now, my 6 year old is all-in on the lego star wars games. But we've mostly had to keep with the Complete Saga. Clone Wars is a bit above his pay grade in figuring out the puzzles. Same thing with Lego Hobbit (which he's also into)

Helwar

2:24 PM

Buff....

I remember playin alex kidd when I was very little

and reaching the last stage, and it was impossible to complete

you'd get a stone with the supposed order yotu had to step on the buttons

NautArch

The hardest part is in limiting their time. I didn't want to open up video games to him this early, but he broke his elbow last winter...

Helwar

but it was a freaking japanese time, so the order was: top to botom, right to left

I took me a long time to try it like that

NautArch

And oddly, I am NOT a big fan of platform games.

they frustrate me

Helwar

and you couldn't save, so you had to do the full game every time

xD

Platform games where almost the only thing back then

right now I enjoy them but it's not my preferred genre

And about opening them to videogames... A friend have a 1 year old, that girl spends quite a lot of time playing kiddie games in her mother's phone

NautArch

Well, I didn't get a game system until I was about 12 (NES). I played a lot of educational typing and math games.

Helwar

2:28 PM

Wich i don't agree with, but at the end of the day she's not my daughter

NautArch

I don't have games on my phone. My wife does and lets them play at times, but I'm not fan.

Helwar

I got a NES when it came out :P My father thought he'd like it, but no, and me and my bro got to play the heck out of it

NautArch

I also don't allow devices in the car or at the table (at home or in a restaurant.) I'm a curmudgeon.

Helwar

I was... 6 I believe?

@NautArch My family pays atention to the TV and nothing else at the table. To the point of shushing you if you speak to loudly... So I got used to be on my phone doing my thing

NautArch

@Helwar :(. That makes me sad.

Helwar

2:31 PM

Yeah, my father looks at me disaprovingly, but whenever he said something to me I said: shall I turn off the TV too?, and it disarmed him, so...

NautArch

I get so little time with them during the week that I want dinner to be us talking

Helwar

I just don't get the need for all of us to eat together if we are not paying attention to each other

That aside, I don't quite agree with the thought that videogames are evil and you should not let your kids use them, I'm a gamer after all, but also think that you should not use games as babysitters, like some people do

your approach seems great :)

NautArch

@Helwar we'll see :) Parenting isn't about doing things right (i'm learning.) It's about not doing too many things wrong.

Helwar

yeah that's a good one

it's not comparable, but I have a dog. I love her to bits, and I've done plenty of things right, but still If I had a second chance I would do so many other things differently...

NautArch

@Helwar It definitely is comparable :) We've also got 2 dogs and the similarities between raising kids and dogs is frightening.

Helwar

2:37 PM

:D

nitsua60

@Rubiksmoose just as a heads-up, I rejected this edit you (among others) approved, as my thinking was more along Tiggerous' lines. It's a close call, though, I'll admit. (I'm kinda unsure about it, tbh.)

Mike Q

Let them play the hard puzzle games that are still kid-friendly

When I was a lesser-sized humanoid, most of my video game experience consisted of obscure point-and-click puzzle games

NautArch

@MikeQ Fool's errand was a big one for me growing up age 12-14.

Helwar

@MikeQ OMG, I remember struggling a lot with The Longes Journey... I was a teenager then, but anyway :P

Nzall

Quick question: would you guys consider rpg.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/48898 to be an edit that improves the answer enough? Like, I only changed one word, but it made the intent clearer for those that are more familiar with WoW

NautArch

2:55 PM

@Nzall what are the differences in ability between the elemental vs enhancement?

Helwar

I'm not super well versed in WoW nowadays, but Elemental is caster and Enhancement melee... if both have an ability that pushes the mob away, both would be ok

Nzall

@Helwar Enhancement doesn't have a knockback though

and Elemental does, a well-known one

Helwar

I stopped playing during Cataclysm, I don't remember what my shaman had :P

Nzall

Enhancement used to have a very small knockback until last month, when they removed it

Helwar

then if Elemental does, it serves for the purpose of the answer and the edit improves it :P

Nzall

2:57 PM

but it was like a very small knockback, like 2 yards or so, not something a tank usually would get as angry over, and it was a talent that very few shamans took because it was awkward to use

Helwar

@Nzall I remember it now, I used it to cut castings

Nzall

@Helwar yeah, Elemental had Thunderstorm, which was a pretty big knockback effect (like 20 yards in a radius around the shaman)

and a lot of less experienced shamans used it poorly, like standing in melee and knocking all mobs away from the tank

it did a small amount of damage, but not much, and it restored some mana as well, but not much either

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 Yeah I was actually pretty divided on that as well. Thanks for the heads up. I was a bit unsure, but I guess I was feeling really peppy at the time lol.

NautArch

kinda bummed on what happened here. was hoping they'd pop into chat.

nitsua60

3:13 PM

@Rubiksmoose Yup. Nothing to worry about, just thought I'd give you the heads-up/explanation in case you happened to notice it in the reopen queue and wondered why it wasn't in the state you left it.

GreySage

@NautArch What are some good games for a 4 year old on PC or PS3 or earlier?

Helwar

Hummm

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 much appreciated!

NautArch

@GreySage 10' interface (controllers) or M&K?

GreySage

@NautArch Either

nitsua60

3:19 PM

@Rubiksmoose I'll say: as a moderator I don't do much, but at least I waffle a lot =D

NautArch

@GreySage Well...I don't think my 4 year old could handle M&K or an xbox 360 (or 6axis) controller.

Rubiksmoose

Mmmm waffles :)

NautArch

I may be being unfair to her, but she's got enough issues with the wiimote :)

Helwar

@NautArch Let her one afternoon with either, and she'll be a natural

kids have expertise in the learning skill

GreySage

@NautArch My daughter has gotten decent at the wiimote, but driving in mariokart still gives her trouble. She can do non-timing based games using M&K, hasn't tried 6axis yet

Helwar

3:22 PM

@GreySage Driving in mario kart with the wiimote is hell, not having a hard limit when you steer is super counter-intuitive

GreySage

@Helwar Her favorite game is mario party, she can handle the board game sections fine, but the minigames give her trouble

Helwar

hum... I can see why. Controls are not consistent between minigames so it's hard to learn

NautArch

@GreySage how old is she?

Mike Q

@GreySage I remember playing stuff like Pajama Sam, Freddie Fish, Putt-Putt, etc., they're all by the same company. Point-and-click cartoony games. Not much trigger-reaction-time challenges that I can remember, then again it's been over 2 decades.

GreySage

@NautArch 4

Helwar

3:26 PM

I just don't know wich games would be good for one so young :S

NautArch

@GreySage I use Steam for my PC gaming and the Lego games are a pretty good intro. Fairly simple controls and fun to just run around.

Helwar

Have you tried Wii Music?

NautArch

I haven't really found other games I've been wanting to try with them at their current age.

Mike Q

I'd also recommend games that you can use to spend time with the kid(s), either as a multiplayer game or as a single-player game where they ask for help

GreySage

@Helwar Hmmm that looks interesting

Colin Gross

3:29 PM

@GreySage There are a bunch of find the hidden item type games on steam for the PC. Some of my casually gaming friends like them. Lemme see if I can dig up the couple they said we're very elementary.

Helwar

@GreySage as far as I remember, the gameplay consist of shaking the wiimote at appropiate times

Maximillian

I can also recommend any of the Lego games.

Helwar

THere's a free game, Osu!, that's a rithm game, you just play with the mouse

Maximillian

Some of the older ones have a few minor issues on PC.

NautArch

@Maximillian I'd be wary about "any" given my recent experiences with Hobbit and Clone Wars.

Helwar

3:30 PM

you may find some happy / easy songs for them to play

Mike Q

Or tycoon games, those can be a good exercise in strategic thinking and planning and resource management tasks

Maximillian

@NautArch The Lego Movie and superhero ones are more my thing. I haven't tried either of those.

Helwar

@MikeQ for a 4 year old?

NautArch

@Maximillian I haven't tried those :) My 6 year old son doesn't really get into superheroes.

weirdo.

Mike Q

@Helwar (shrug) I don't have kids, just a lot of ideas

Helwar

3:32 PM

@MikeQ Ideas are great :)

GreySage

I'll look into them. My kids watch me play and really want to emulate me, but I know they have no chance of actually enjoying WoW or Nier Automata or Final Fantasy

Mike Q

No, I don't think a 4-year old should be playing WoW or Nier

GreySage

@MikeQ She often asks me to play "the game with all the robots" :)

NautArch

@GreySage My son watches mario world and other games being played on youtube, but if we're sitting down locally, he doesn't have much interest in watching me play while he's not :)

Helwar

@GreySage Try WORLD of Final Fantasy, is very childish, although a little bit dificult maybe

Mike Q

3:34 PM

Plenty of games have robots in them.

NautArch

he's also really into watching drive.ng youtube videos.

GreySage

@Helwar I figure no point in trying FF until she can actually read

Helwar

@NautArch You are not as interesting as the youtuber he watches, sadly :P

@GreySage Yeah, that's a good one! Haven't thought about it....

NautArch

@Helwar true, i'm not giving snarky commentary

Yuuki

@NautArch But if you get a costume, you could give sharky commentary.

PC only?

Mike Q

3:40 PM

Oh. Minecraft is a good one.

GreySage

:46372982 The vast majority of games I am interested in require reading skills, which right now is a major limiting factor

Rubiksmoose

:46372989 Well the market for regressively aging people is sadly very small so that makes sense ;)

Mike Q

Minecraft isn't reading-intensive, AFAIK. Aren't the recipes for things just a task of matching patterns and configurations?

e.g. Put the thingamabobs in a 3x3 configuration, like the picture shows you, and you get a doohickey

Pretty simple rules, really

Helwar

@GreySage You can try Ibb Obb!

it's coop, no text whatsoever

GreySage

@Helwar how does the coop work? You need to buy it twice on 2 different pcs?

Helwar

3:45 PM

I'm not really sure if it has local, as I've always played online with friends

but I can check

Google says that you can play it locally

GreySage

It says local coop, but not what that means

Helwar

with 2 controllers, or keyboard + controller or sharing controllers

Mike Q

if Katamari Damacy is compatible with the systems you have, there's a fun game for any age

Helwar

@MikeQ Never played any, and visually I find it very unappealing :(

@GreySage I can't be 100% sure right now, but can test it later if you want.

GreySage

@Helwar Google agrees with you, keyboard + controller seems possible

Helwar

3:51 PM

:)

Maximillian

6 years old.. So something with 2 or 3 button inputs, little to no reading, and obvious play mechanics that can be simply discovered in a few minutes. Something colorful and engaging...

Yuuki

Super Mario?

Maximillian

I picked up a game called 'Just Beats and Shapes' for a party on steam. It's a game about being a colorful dot and doding shapes that appear on the screen in musical patterns. It can get twitchy, but it's simple to understand, but very hard to master. Plus i really dig the clubby music it's got bundled in.

Helwar

You have Puyo Puyo! Tetris! (I think I wrote too many exclamation marks)

Mike Q

Katamari Damacy! again!

Helwar

3:54 PM

colorful characters and simple gameplay

Maximillian

It may have a difficulty curve that's a bit much, not sure. My group had a medium response to it.

Helwar

@Maximillian That game is GORGEOUS, I wanna buy it

Maximillian

Katamari is wonderful. I'm still sad the creator left after the first two.

Just Beats and Shapes has a party mode where 'dying' doesn't really penalize you, but your track selection is limited by how much of story mode you've finished.

My group got to the first 'boss' fight which is really cool, but if you die on that one, you have to do the whole song over again which got tedious.

Yuuki

@Maximillian naaaaa na na na na na na na na katamari damacy

na na na na na na batman

Mike Q

Does whatever a batman can

Yuuki

4:04 PM

can he swing from a web? no he can't, he's not spider-man but he has a grapple gun if you're not picky

Mike Q

4:16 PM

He can swing from a web if he's prepared his Bat-Web device

Is Batman a wizard? Or a Gandalf?

Yuuki

Batman is a 3rd-level Gandalf.

Gandalf himself is a 5th-level Gandalf.

Xirema

5:03 PM

Batman is a multiclassed Artificer/Monk. Nobility background, and got crazy-good rolls at Stat Gen.

Mike Q

Nonsense! Batman wears armor, and vigilantism is unlawful, thus he cannot be a monk

Colin Gross

@MikeQ Does he wear armor to eschew the bonuses to make it more of a fair fight?

Mike Q

No, you need the Eschew Bonuses feat to do that

NautArch

@ColinGross maybe he just likes armor and doesn't care because he more than makes up for it with his other skills.

Colin Gross

@NautArch ninja skills? when is oriental adventures coming out for 5e?!\

Maximillian

5:12 PM

Man why is that a question I hear every edition.

I blame you Complete Ninja Handbook for 2E.

Colin Gross

@Maximillian Because it was a rockin' expansion... not the ninja handbook.

Maximillian

The one in 3.0 was strange.. the L5R stuff bashed into D&D format, then not long after the licence went away.

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ You have it wrong. It is the suit that is a sentient demon lord. It is wearing batman and it will be whatever aligment it wants to be thank you very much.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose Like the Eberron living armor items?

Maximillian

Gasp! @Rubiksmoose is implying someone or something can be morally grey in a fixed alignment system! GET HIM.... So long as doing so doesn't conflict with the alignment in your stat block.

Rubiksmoose

5:17 PM

@ColinGross I've never played but the name certainly fits lol

Zachiel

@Maximillian Pathfinder mythic trait "morality undone"

Rubiksmoose

@Maximillian ducks.

Colin Gross

6th edition could be a copy of 5e without the alignment system and I would switch immediately.

Mike Q

If a character is morally conflicted, then you roll some d20s to resolve the conflict, possibly via combat

NautArch

is there actually a mathematical difference here?

Maximillian

5:19 PM

6E will introduce a system to actually let you fight the rules in combat.

Yuuki

@Maximillian Alignment has a CR30.

Maximillian

That's okay, if we kill the CR rules first, that will have no meaning.

But I think they're in the lair with all of transmutation magic. This could be messy.

You could win, but you might be a duck by the end.

GreySage

@ColinGross I have yet to see alignment matter in 5e, so why don't you just play without it?

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch I don't think so... (A+B+C)/2 = A/2+B/2+C/2

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose okay, that's kinda what i thought but I am not proficient in Math.

Yuuki

5:23 PM

@Maximillian Just beat the concept of the transfiguration school of magic.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Yeah unless I'm missing something there should be no difference.

Yuuki

I thought the question was asked because someone might not be resistant to all damage types.

NautArch

@Yuuki no,that was an earlier question

Yuuki

And so (A+B+C)/2 != A/2 + B + C/2.

Mike Q

@Rubiksmoose Not if each is rounded down individually. Those should be floor functions, and the equality does not always hold.

NautArch

5:25 PM

this question is...odd

Colin Gross

@GreySage I do play without an absolute morality in the system, but that messes with detect alignment triggers/effects that are still laying about.

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ yeah that was just what I was thinking, but surely rounding wouldn't happen until the end anywys?

Mike Q

@Rubiksmoose Well, that's what the question is asking

Maximillian

Yeah, Alignment being glued to the magic system makes it annoying.

Yuuki

@Rubiksmoose And don't call me Shirley.

NautArch

5:26 PM

@MikeQ so odd numbers of damage per type would create an issue like 3+3=6 damage, resisted to 3. But individual 1+1=2?

Maximillian

Alignment is a good tool for younger/newer players and a hindrance to experienced players.

Sir Cinnamon

(3+3+3)/2 = 4.5 = 4
3/2+3/2+3/2 = 1.5+1.5+1.5 = 1+1+1 = 3

Colin Gross

@Maximillian I find it a general hindrance to story telling.

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon Why would you round the 1.5s before the end?

NautArch

@SirCinnamon Hmm, so then would that make it a duplicate? or is it different enough it's just different question, same answer.

Sir Cinnamon

5:28 PM

@Rubiksmoose Why wouldnt you? If they are different damage types

NautArch

i'm leaning the latter

Xirema

@NautArch 5e has inconsistent rules regarding when numbers (be they multiclassed levels, or damage values, or whatever) are supposed to be rounded. If the system were sane, we'd round down at the very end. But how it usually shakes out is that numbers get rounded at each step.

Sir Cinnamon

you take 3 fire and 3 bludgeoning, halved so 1.5 fire and 1.5 bludgeoning so 1 and 1

Rubiksmoose

@Xirema does it say that anywhere out of curiosity?

NautArch

@Xirema Inconsistent and different are two separate things, though.

THere are times when you round up and times when you round down - and those times are clearly stated.

Maximillian

5:30 PM

"Lets just implement decimal damage." "Yay!" "Okay roll damage." "Zero point repeating six to infinity." "Okay lets not do decimal damage."

Xirema

@NautArch Yeah, but every time they're stated, it's when you're rounding a single value, not when rounding the results of compound calculations.

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon Because I don't see any reaon why that matters. I have a feeling you could break math questions into arbitrary fractions that way and juice more/less damage

But it is not like I care too much. Just curious. I would ahve never done it that way.

Xirema

@Rubiksmoose Individual abilities/stats tend to have consistency, but the rounding behavior of compound calculations has never been codified in 5e.

Mike Q

You'd be looking at a difference of 1 or 2 damage, although at low levels that can be important

NautArch

@MikeQ or at low enough HP at later levels.

Xirema

5:32 PM

Not outside of Crawford tweets, anyways, and he has a bad habit of answering specific questions with general, easily-misinterpreted citations of the very rules that caused the ambiguity in the first place.

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose But what if its from two different attacks? Or on two different turns? If you round damage you round damage and in the books damage is never grouped. Its not "6 fire and bludgeoning" its "3 fire + 3 b"

Maximillian

Dear Mr.Crawford, why is alignment so difficult to manage? Does morality and ethics need to be a game mechanic or can it be handled purely through roleplay? Can you shed some light on the value added?

Crawford: "Yes."

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon I mean the first two examples are easily debunked, but I see what you are saying about the last point. Makes sense.

Xirema

@SirCinnamon I think it's safe and consistent that different spells, different attacks, etc. are handled separately from each other.

NautArch

@Maximillian my man

Maximillian

5:36 PM

Lets shift the system over to my new alignment spectrum. Monkey, Ninja, Pirate, Robot.

Sir Cinnamon

@Xirema But what about for example, the spider bite where you take pierce and poison BUT the poison damage changes based on a CON save - if you resist poison and pierce would you round those together or apart?

Maximillian

Mostly so we can get 'detect robot' into play.

Xirema

Rounding at individual steps is really dumb, the official rulings notwithstanding. You'd end up with a Level 5 Eldritch Knight/Level 5 Arcane Trickster having only 3 level 1 spell slots, as the equivalent of a level 2 spellcaster. I know Multiclassing rules are deliberately written to try to mitigate the power curve of multiclassed spellcasters, but that's pretty awful to end up with.

GreySage

@Maximillian But what if you're a zombie?

Maximillian

Similar to Robot there are some rounding errors in this alignment chart so we approximate.

GreySage

5:38 PM

:46375586 The way you add partial casting classes levels to get total caster level

Rubiksmoose

@GreySage Yeah I just realized as I thought it through lol

Xirema

@SirCinnamon Like I said, the rules have never been codified for that situation. What I think SHOULD happen is that the damage values should be divided into fractions/decimals/rationals/whatever based on Resistances/Saving Throws/etc., added together, and then only rounded at the last step.

But the official rules do not specify what is correct in that scenario.

(or if they do specify, I've never seen where)

Sir Cinnamon

"Whenever you divide a number in the game, round down if you end up with a fraction", IMO this means round down immediately, as part of the division

Mike Q

> "Make a Dexterity saving throw."
> "I got a 13.54"
> "Ah, the DC was 13.55, sorry. You take... 2+(2/5)+(3π/4)+(9/10)i damage"
> "What type?"
> "It's 64% slashing, 10% bludgeoning, 25% fire, and 1% rounding error"

Xirema

@MikeQ "So I take 1 damage then, because of my resistance to bludgeoning, and the fact that all the other numbers round to 0?"

Zachiel

5:46 PM

I think you're missing Bellydancer and Savage (monkey might overlap with the latter, but this risks being offensive)

Xirema

I don't even mind doing complicated math, I just hate it when it's inconsistent complicated math.

Maximillian

The wizard pulls out a small slate and some chalk, performing some calculations. After the rounding error is resolved, several goblins die.

Zachiel

@Maximillian I remember a comic where characters were falling, belly down, and the wizard was typing on a calculator. -What is he doing? -Calculating falling damage.

Adam

I really don't think the rounding issue is really "inconsistent". You consistently round down unless something special tells you to round up. At most, you could make the argument that it's vague on when to apply the round down when multiple types are in the mix. But that never changed the fact that you know you're supposed to round down.

Zachiel

(Meanwhile: -What are you doing? -Understanding why my new PC does not boot. :@ )

Maximillian

5:49 PM

"Guys we're okay, the fighter still as a one-onehundredth of a hitpoint, and due to the nature of the system he's still fighting at 100% capacity!"

Mike Q

I sure hope 6e uses multivariable integral calculus to avoid these rounding-error ambiguities

Maximillian

Damage will be linear expressions in which your die roll is used for X.

Xirema

@Adam The ambiguity on when to apply the rounding is what I'm complaining about.

Mike Q

7e will abandon the arithmetic of adding bonuses, and rely entirely on Big-O complexity notation

Xirema

@MikeQ NO.

@MikeQ GOD NO

@MikeQ PLEASE GOD NO

Mike Q

5:53 PM

Hit iff f( attack roll ) = O( AC )

Adam

@Xirema I know. I'm just positing that the math isn't inconsistent.

Xirema

So many horrible flashbacks to Prog301

Maximillian

currently I do logarithmic damage, but I hope to get a sword that does exponential damage soon.

Sir Cinnamon

New class: Logarithmic Frog: Cannot ever deal more than half of a target's current HP in an attack

Maximillian

I'd settle for a good cubic blade, if it has like fire or something.

Mike Q

5:54 PM

"Hit dice" is a confusing term, so instead of progressing from level 1, 2, 3, etc., you start at level 1 and then use mathematical induction to instantly reach level ℵ

Xirema

So we're going to start using Homestuck rules for numeric evaluation. Cool. Cool. Loads Pistol

GreySage

@MikeQ I endorse this effort

Maximillian

Be careful. If your level ever becomes an imaginary number, your character becomes imaginary.

Mike Q

Your proficiency bonus increases from O(1) to O(log n) to O(n) to O(n^x) to O(x^n)

and eventually to O(n!^n!) to represent mythic tiers

Maximillian

Also alignment has been replaced with the name of the philosopher whose meditations, theories, and papers most reflect your morality.

That said, I do not allow Freudian Rogues at my table.

Adam

5:57 PM

@MikeQ I'm sure they'll release a THAC0-esque "wheel of bonuses" in an issue of Dragon+

Maximillian

hiss

HE SAID THAC0!

Xirema

My party has a Rogue whose alignment is Chaotic Marxist.

Maximillian

Also for 6E, we're going back to 2E style saving throws against specific concepts, but we're going to broaden the types.

Save vs. Existential Doubt.

Mike Q

It will have Fluxx-like mechanics where characters can temporarily change the rules

Xirema

Actually, maybe it's more accurate to call them Lawful Marxist. They have a strict code, which says "It's okay for me to steal from the Mage's Guild, because Guilds are a symbol of authority and personal ownership of labor, which are both evil, and thus actions which harm them are morally justifiable".

Maximillian

6:00 PM

Oh there we go. Fluxx rules.

Adam

@Maximillian Are we also going back to a percentage chance to save based on class and level? So all 5th level fighters will have a 34.15% chance to save vs. body dysmorphia?

Maximillian

While we're at it, lets bring back exceptional strength so there's 30 tiers of what STR 18 means.

Mike Q

@Xirema insert inevitable "What if they follow a strict code where they must be as chaotic as possible" comment

i.e., Antipaladins

Maximillian

The 6E DMG will weigh in at 30 pounds. The limited edition will have probability tables after the appendicies.

Also, by the time you figure out how to play and resolve your first combat, 7E will be releasing. So we've included a $5 coupon.

Xirema

@MikeQ I have a response for that, but I don't want to clog up this chat by sparking a political flame war. XD

Mike Q

6:03 PM

@Maximillian Yes, that's what tabletop games need. More lookup tables.

user15026

@Maximillian I don't know what it says about me that I go "okay so that's like...7 copies of the Digger omnibus"

Maximillian

We know 6E is a success because both Mike Mearls and Monte Cook are still in the asylum after we consulted them to review!

Mike Q

And by then, Crawford will have a direct neural link to the internet, and all of his thoughts will be continuously appended as official rules

Maximillian

@Ash Not familiar... quick google.. Story about a wombat digging?

user15026

@Maximillian Yes, sorta kinda at the basest sense of the story

user15026

6:06 PM

(The omnibus edition of the graphic novel happens to weigh 4 lbs.)

user15026

It is a very large book.

Maximillian

@MikeQ Crawford, The result of explosive projectiles that miss their target is unclear, do they deviate and explode or do they cease to exist? Crawford: RELEASE ME FROM MY SHACKLES.

Got it so explosive weapons that miss the target undo the targets bindings, that's RAW. Thanks.

Zachiel

@Xirema The last item in your stack falls off from your wallet. It's the 400tons hammer, which is now three floors below and falling. Hey Maximillian, save versus falling metallic object with a wooden handle.

Maximillian

I'm going to stop spouting nonsense now and go back to reality where there's very real code up for very real reviews.

Once we introduce computer application style bugs into D&D, we will finally know that we are doing it wrong.

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