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12:00 AM
@doppelspooker what if my goal is to build some Legos?
Anyway, I feel like sometimes the definition of a game not being a real game comes down to circle jerking about games you don't find engaging
I don't like the two million iterations of Call of Duty but I don't call them not games
I don't like Scrabble very much but I don't call it not a game
The definition of something as a game is often needlessly nit picky in my opinion
Yeah, I think it's important to ask why we need a rigid definition of a thing, because often it only gets talked about in the context of exclusion or appropriation.
Is there any interaction with it at all? Does anyone happen to enjoy it and be engaged by it?
Bam it's a game
I'll still say movies aren't games
You don't get to change what happens in them, you just watch
More nit picking? :P
No, not the link I thought it was.
12:16 AM
I was thinking of VCR board games like Party Mania.
But see, while I find that weird,... I would classify that as really weird cut scenes in a board game
It's still a game
If you just watch the,... Movie? Random interludes? Wtv by themselves
I think my conclusion is "stuff be weird, yo."
Then yeah maybe not a game anymore
But that isn't intended use
Now would I like that game? Probably hell no
But I still classify it as one
Even though I think it is some weird #_#&&--
So then we ask "is it a movie if it's interactive?"
And then we talk about Rocky Horror.
It's still a movie
12:22 AM
Does audience participation in Rocky Horror constitute a game?
They can prompt you and you can howl at the screen all day
They still gonna continue to sing, murder each other, do experiments and cross dress
You don't influence them back
I'm not saying this doesn't classify it as entertainment or interactivity
Ah, so our ability to pause, rewind, and fast forward movies would make them games?
In order for it to be a game,.... At the very least I think you need other people doing it with you
@Miniman yes actually
Of you find that engaging
Do you find that engaging? Go on ahead sport
12:25 AM
@Miniman ....is a DJ messing with turntables playing a game?
@BESW still unfortunately a game
@BESW heck yeah buddy
So in conclusion, I am an insane man with strange game definitions
And you all listened to me
Who wins now?
I wouldn't play the fast forward rewind pause game but if other people would I still won't gatekeep them
Long as they don't try to force me to play it too it's all good
Games are about perspective. "Gamification" is where you take some activity that isn't a game, present it as a game, and then it becomes one, regardless of the nature of the activity.
@MikeQ example?
Chores. Doing dishes = 1 point, Taking out garbage = 1 point, Exercise = 2 points, etc.
Well I'll point out that in cases such as that, being forced to do an activity isn't a game
12:31 AM
Yu Gi Oh would beg to differ
Still a game
I played it for a short time and then got really upset that the show ignored every single rule for dramatic effect
@trogdor In this context, "gamification" is a jargon term used to describe an attitude popularized by phone apps which help adults enjoy doing adult things like washing dishes and paying bills by assigning points to them and then providing a way to spend those points as currency in the game.
It's a whole sub-industry.
@BESW I was using it in the more general sense. Like when you need to motivate children to do tasks, so you present the task as a fun game.
The crazy man must ponder this one
12:34 AM
See also Zombies, Run! which isn't just an interactive podcast; you get points for running well which you spend to develop and reinforce you zombie outpost in the app game.
The crazy man has decided this will be called a zaachdf and never be spoken of again
That does sound like something the crazy man would decide.
Another example: Candyland is a game because the players think it's a game
I don't disagree with that
Likewise for Snakes and Ladders.
12:41 AM
I don't remember exactly how to play Candy Land
@trogdor You draw a card, and move your piece according to the card. There are no choices to make.
But nothing happens in it until the players continue, and at that point they just need to be enjoying it
@MikeQ you choose to pick that card up
There are no strategic choices to make.
No doesn't sound like it
But yes, the players choose to interact with the game elements, so it's a game.
12:42 AM
Not my point
Yeah exactly
We will be fitted for matching straight jackets yet
I mean a large part of it involves the decision of whoever is engaging in the activity
But I would define it as still needing at least a minimal amount of input for it to be a game
There's another game, I can't remember what it's called, where players sit in a circle and each puts in some money. Dice are passed around. You roll to either give to / take from the person to your left or right, or keep. Players make no choices other than to keep playing.
I'm not personally thrilled by excessively simple games with no complexity of choice or strategy or skill, but those are not definitions of the state of being a game
And like I said, I don't particularly enjoy Call of Duty, but boy do enough people keep buying those that they keep making more
My complaint is that sometimes I catch someone on the internet saying something isn't a "real" game
And I have no use for that definition because it's whole purpose is a put down of people who enjoy a simpler activity for the sake of feeling superior
An activity to be ridiculed for inferiority
We don't need more of that attitude
I was trying to edit but deleted that
Heck I would say the same for tabletop gaming and rpgs and such
I even had a rather bigoted attitude towards LARP at one point :/
I still wouldn't want to LARP myself but that's a matter of personal preference really
I have enough trouble RPing at the table as is
1:00 AM
Q: Should the [astral] tag should be renamed to [astral-plane]?

V2BlastThis seems like a pretty straightforward suggestion. The astral tag is currently used on just 4 questions, three of them about D&D 5e and one about 3.5e. In addition, all 4 questions are specifically about the Astral Plane. (There are quite a few other questions about the Astral Plane that don't...

1:20 AM
@trogdor Half Life 3?
Oh god just take me back to that horrible facility I escaped from
Don't make me say insane stuff about that
Too late
We will now be talking about "the nature of existence"
Half Life 3 exists in the Uber Limbo of shattered dreams and ridiculous illusions
In that place all wishes frolic, in harmony with the million glass shards of expectation
Which can never be destroyed but can always be shattered to smaller sizes and larger numbers
I think that explains it nicely
What? What Happened?
@trogdor Someone set up us the bomb
Sounds,... Nice?
Operator: We get signal.
No wait it's the other one
2:07 AM
@BESW I used that for a bit and bought the unlock, but then something weird goes on with my multiple google accounts and the app never recognizes that I've actually unlocked the paid content. Which is annoying, because in the last six months I've gone from jog-walking 20 minutes to twelve-mile runs on the weekend all without earning any Fake App Points!
2:29 AM
@nitsua60 lol
How did cave men ever get thier exercise? No running apps or fake points?
The nerve of nature
@trogdor Where'd they charge their fitbits?
Inquiring minds want to know!
It's a mystery for the ages that's for sure
It was definitely a strange time to invent the internet though
3:07 AM
@nitsua60 If only I had the time to run 12 miles in a go!
I can barely find time to lurk the stack for an hour or three a week.
4:11 AM
@JoelHarmon That's why you've gotta be quick about it, obviously.
4:23 AM
You should have said gotta go fast
But really you dodged a bullet no one should say gotta go fast anymore
@Delioth 4e used Str/Con/Dex/Int/Wis/Cha, because when calculating defenses you could take the better of each pair of Str/Con (Fort), Dex/Int (Ref and AC), and Wis/Cha (Will).
4:44 AM
Yeah, that was cool because suddenly you didn't need a stat just for defense anymore
Or at least it was less of a problem in terms of having any defenses at all
4 hours later…
8:58 AM
@trogdor There is an answer for that! It's that with toys you can invent your own goals ("build a rocket for instance"), but in a game the goal is provided as part of the parcel.
@doppelspooker yeah true
9:17 AM
Unless the game is a sandbox experience, in which case defining a "goal" may become a little harder (unless you count achievements as final goals)
@Derpy well I mean specifically playing with legos
so it really depends on your definition of sandbox
Sorry, I was thinking more about (video) games and less about (board/real world) games.
that's fair
the conversation was kinda all over the place
I assumed you were responding to me and greener specifically
2 hours later…
11:19 AM
@BESW I'm pretty sure I could run 12mph. The problem is maintaining that for a whole hour.
Or, really, more than a few seconds.
1 hour later…
12:42 PM
endurance is definitely the big hurdle there
1:39 PM
Got my first popular question badge, which surprised me because it's on a question with a simple premise, a single answer and a single comment. I wonder why that got so many views
@SirCinnamon It probably made it to hot network questions though
@Sdjz Makes sense, it gathered a handful of votes in a pretty short time
2:18 PM
Q: Is there a way to properly eliminate "ignored" tags?

Weckar E.So I've been trying to ignore the dnd-5e tag, but on the homepage - and really on any question search page - it just grays out the questions rather than leaving them out entirely. Considering the sheer volume of these questions, it hardly makes the ignore useful at all. Is there a way to actually...

Is there an established term for games that are played without random elements and consist entirely of narration and puzzles? Think "escape room" except the players aren't physically there.
@kviiri I've seen them called Escape Room Board Games i guess
@MikeQ In 3.5e, if you're at a lower level than the party, then you gain more EXP than everyone else as a sort of catch-up mechanic.
3:17 PM
@BESW I miss the 4e defenses <3
Then again, I am a bad roller so I usually miss even AC too.
Clearly you need to level up your dice-rolling skill
I've just mostly switched to less swingy systems
@kviiri What systems are you currently working with?
@MikeQ Hadoop and AWS cloud and... wait, you mean RPG systems?
Apocalypse World is still the big one for me, although I'm currently on a bit of a hiatus on all RPG activities.
(save for getting that CoS campaign done)
@SirCinnamon HNQ really skews views/votes. Fitness is low traffic, and a weirdly innocuous question suddenly had 25 upvotes, 4k views and 8+ answers a while ago.
3:31 PM
@JohnP Im definitely guilty of clicking through to hot questions that catch my eye haha
I dont often vote though
But I'm doing prep for a room escape style puzzle challenge as a sort of background process. The idea being to challenge the players with a bunch of puzzles including lots of real life props
@kviiri Cool. I just did my first room a couple weeks ago, it was a blast.
I'm a puzzler by nature but I usually hate how they're implemented in RPGs. I think divorcing them completely from the usual DnD-ish fare of dice and rules could give me an outlet to try new stuff with them.
Puzzles shouldn't be roll-dependent
That ^^
With one caveat - There should be a roll contingency plan, but not the primary means of solving.
3:42 PM
Rolling works* in combat because combat is strategic and typically involves a sequence of actions and risks
@MikeQ That's a part of what bugs me though... it feels weird to have an insanely smart character played by a player who's not very smart (or at least not good at puzzles) to fail at something that should be simple for their character.
Rolls make sense for a puzzle to react to mistakes made in the solving process. "You cut the wrong wire. Make a Dex Saving Throw to mitigate the 4d10 fire damage you're about to take to the face."
puzzles being roll-dependent wouldn't be a good universal rule though
But I'm not very fond of puzzles as a part of a normal dungeon crawl experience anyway... too often they're just weird padding content that doesn't really support the rest of the content. That's why I like integrating puzzles and skill challenges into combat encounters, so they mesh better
@Xirema The consequences can be roll-dependent, sure, but the puzzle itself shoudn't be. e.g. "Make an Intelligence check to choose the correct wire" is not a puzzle.
3:46 PM
but, if you want a player-facing puzzle, make it one the players can face. but there's always things you can do in this situation: have multiple right answers, let rolls lead to clues or allow them to do something else (like "smash through the door") that circumvents the puzzle completely
meanwhile characters will face puzzles like "unlock this door" that we don't care about making players puzzle through and we'd prefer those be resolved with a roll
I feel like I'm suggesting obvious things as usual, but in my experience I've seen too many "puzzles" that are actually Perception skill checks
The fact that this answer is close to becoming my number 1 makes me a little sad. I spent like 0 effort on that one, but have spent almost 8 full hours on answers that have gotten less than 15 votes
@MikeQ Yeah lack of information is not a fun hurdle to overcome
@kviiri I've had mild success at multi-room puzzles, where the puzzle elements are spread throughout the dungeon/environment. So the puzzle solving process is integrated into the exploration process. It requires more work in terms of dungeon design but the payoff can be nice.
@DavidCoffron capitalism.jpg
3:48 PM
But anyway, that's largely the reason why I'd like to do a puzzle and investigation heavy one-shot without any dice and combat
@DavidCoffron Sometimes people just vote for the wrong thing ;)
@SirCinnamon (btw, that was not a request for a couple dozen downvotes) ;)
@DavidCoffron Funny, my long-time best answer also deals with Wish.
(and also is one I didn't particularly care much about until it made me a fortune in fake internet points)
@DavidCoffron Not uncommon. Some of my highest SFF rep answers were tossed out in 20 minutes, where some 6 hour research efforts went unnoticed. Some of it is FGITW syndrome, but...::shrug::
@kviiri That's a good answer. I'm not sure I agree with the reference answer, though
3:51 PM
@MikeQ Definitely agreed.
@kviiri Consider giving hints to the players of intelligent/informed characters, perhaps
@MikeQ I've tried that, but it never really felt right... after all, a hint to one of them is a hint to the whole party and then the brainiac among the players solves it anyway.
rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/114565/… <-- this is my current top answer and one I'm much more proud of anyway
@kviiri That's more of a problem in competitive games
My highest rated answer came only after I got in a fight with a mod because I didn't feel like my comment was an attempt to answer the question, and they felt it was. So I just said "fornicate it, let's just post a revised version that does attempt to answer it" and now it's my highest rated answer. X(
I don't know the answer to this question, but I'm so glad this isn't a thing anymore, because we don't need to bottle-neck classes any more than they already are. Almost all of the most fun characters I've played had slightly lesser "primary" attributes.
3:54 PM
@MikeQ I don't see why it wouldn't be a problem in normal co-operative games. Being overshadowed is not fun, especially if it's in an area where it's your character's turn to shine.
I'd need an example of what you're doing, then
@DavidCoffron Well, it agrees with the text and even with Crawford
my highest voted answer was from telling a dude not to join a gaming group specifically for the purposes of rage-fuelled revenge
i'm pretty ok with that :P
@kviiri No, the answer says level 9. I think it should be level 8 (since that is the level being replicated)
@DavidCoffron But you're still casting it with a 9th level slot.
3:58 PM
@kviiri Crawford has stated that level 8 is the adjusted level.
I think it is just duplicating the effects of an 8th level spell
@DavidCoffron ...wait, he has?
Apparently yes :|
Well, I think he's wrong, RAW.
It's not tecnically casting the spell with a 9th level slot, but duplicating the 8th level "version" of the spell
@DavidCoffron Duplicating the effects of 8th level spell which may include that it's more effective when cast with a L9 slot ;)
We've had debates about whether you are literally casting the spell before. I think you aren't RAW since it just duplicates the effect
@kviiri There's also the power of the narrative. Even if the barbarian's player is the one who finally solves the problem, you can say that the scholar character found the solution, or at least contributed
4:00 PM
I think both of you, and Crawford, are wrong, and a spell cast via Wish is cast at its base level, and does not get up-cast at all. ;)
@Xirema That was my opinion a while ago.
(I usually ban Wish from being a prepared spell in the first place, so this has never come up before)
Then I read Crawford's tweet. I think he (in his RAI) says that all spells that can be cast at a higher level have versions of that spell at that level that can be accessed by wish. This is not RAW though
I think I discussed this with @NautArch before
Wish does not become the spell it's replicating the effects of. The effect of wish is creating the effect of an 8th level or lower spell. That spell does not inherit the 9th level casting of wish itself.
@CTWind Then can you replicate an 8th level version of a spell?
4:02 PM
@kviiri And if you have a player who consistently figures everything out, then that's maybe an issue with the social dynamic at the table. I'm unsure how to resolve it. Maybe talk to them (outside of the game) about giving the other players a chance.
@MikeQ I'm not sure who I'd be serving by having puzzles and then telling people who are enthusiastic puzzle-solvers to not try hard at them
I guess this boils down to me not really seeing the point of puzzles in a dungeon hack game in the first place.
Good point. Maybe reconsider the types of puzzles you're using, then? You can cater the puzzles to individual players, to a certain extent.
But you're right. Puzzles don't always fit well in TTRPGs because they often rely on out-of-game cognitive skills rather than in-character choices.
Yeah. I mean specifically "blocker puzzles" that either must or will be solved before anything can happen around the table.
The self-contained ones, right. They often feel out of place and mess with pacing.
e.g. Room 1 has gobins, room 2 has ghosts, and room 3 has some beakers and a chemistry problem written on wall.
4:08 PM
The secret ingredient is love poison.
@kviiri Love is poison, but it's the kind where keeping it nullifies it. It's only when you fall out of love that the pain exists. :p
@DavidCoffron weird, i didn't get this ping.
@MikeQ I do like skill challenges meshing with urgent encounters though. They're fun
Like being stuck in a room with 30 goblins coming one way and a thick wooden door blocking the other. The party can try to beat them or just hold their ground while the rogue picks the lock
Even better if it's one of those hi-security lock systems where you need to unlock two locks at the same time! Or some other obstacle that mixes up the usual deal where one skill monkey is enough.
@kviiri Pick the lock while holding your breath and patting your head at the same time?
4:25 PM
@NautArch Heh, you and nate were quick on the draw. :) By the time I found a related Q, dupe zone arrives.
@NautArch Do you remember discussing whether there are different versions of 5e spells at each level? I can't remember what question it involved (may have been goodguy5 or someone else)
@BESW The player may learn from failure, but the character may not due to the things you mentioned.
@JohnP Love is an addictive drug with severe withdrawal symptoms.
@KorvinStarmast surprisingly nimble with the ban hammer am i
@DavidCoffron what doy ou mean by different versions?
@BESW It constitutes entertainment, of which games might be considered a sub set.
@MikeQ CLR (center left right)
4:43 PM
@Xirema Unfortunately this is very accurate
Relationship withdrawal mirrors substance abuse withdrawal
@Xirema Did you have a cigarette afterwards?
@GreySage Quitting smoking was a different kind of pain than having my heart ripped out of my chest and stomped on (in the romantic sense) I'll take the former, thanks.
@KorvinStarmast I always struggle to remember latter vs former and need to double check my logic
@KorvinStarmast No, but I did pay for the respectable company.
@NautArch Like the level 3 version of magic missles is different than the level 1 version.
@DavidCoffron Hmm, i'm not remembering. The thing that sticks in my mind the most is the Wish question.
4:53 PM
@KorvinStarmast I'd imagine having your hearth ripped out of your chest and stomped on in a literal sense would be much more painful than either.
@NautArch Might have been someone else then
and epic boons
doesn't mean we didn't have that conversation, though :P
i'm also a little hazy this morning after a late night at a Phish concert.
How do I find my chat ID for the purposes of searching
@DavidCoffron Click your avatar -> user profile -> It's the number in the url
It was with illustro
in Discussion between David Coffron and illustro, Apr 5 at 2:33, by David Coffron
If you had a way to inscribe a higher level version of a spell (RAW you don't), then you could create such a spell scroll
About scribing spell scrolls
If you can duplicate the effect of a n 8th level magic missles, then you should be able to scribe an 8th level magic missles spell, no?
5:12 PM
@DavidCoffron I don't really see how the 2 are related. One is an effect created by a spell, the other is creating a magic item
@doppelspooker Just a heads-up on this question. Worried about Not Nice interactions and didn't know if a mod wanted to put up a preemptive comment.
@NautArch Yeah, may need to alert like the one from a couple of weeks ago. Agree. (I wonder of Robert wants lore from all editions or the one he's playing now. I'll ask in a comment).
@KorvinStarmast that's what I was thinking of. Get ahead of a problem before it becomes one.
@NautArch I'll keep an eye on it
LGBT topics usually need a notice like that, but I'd prefer not to add one unless/until it's needed
@doppelspooker fair enough. As @KorvinStarmast had said - was thinking about the recent issue we had and didn't want it to go further. Even OP asking why the downvote could end up doing that path.
And Worst Case Scenario me also is concerned that OP may be trolling.
5:24 PM
The "notice" I add would be this one as a comment (because it's not present as an actual notice yet): interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2047/3556
but there's no need to do that until people are doing things it would prevent
Yeah, it's definitely not controversial at this point (nor should it be in general, but that's for another time/place)
Out of pure curiosity - how many tables here have romance as a common roleplaying aspect?
I honestly haven't played a table where it's been done, but I have a feeling that maybe i'm the outlier.
@NautArch Beyond "I seduce the barmaid!", I haven't seen it in my games.
Romance & sexuality come up in games with one of my groups, but in another it doesn't come up & we don't pursue it.
One of my tables has a player who usually has a specific NPC they're interested in. It's at best a tertiary subplot for them, though.
I've also rolled characters that have had a spouse, though I'm assuming the question is more about the 'starting/seeking a relationship' end of things :-P
@CTWind Yeah, I guess it's more about do your tables have romantic roleplay as a common theme. Unless your spouse is an NPC or other player that you interact with, that's not really what i meant :)
5:38 PM
@NautArch I've never seen it executed well, so I just have a "yada yada, fade to black" policy
Would totally play a gay knight or something though, or okay with one coming up. Get me some of those Kynaios & Tiro characters in my games.
As a DM, I just feel it would be awkward. Acting the part of a love interest to a player or if it's between two players trying to manage it.
The question is interesting, because while I don't think sexuality should change how a character is portrayed, it may change how NPCs view that character.
Best I've seen is it played for humor when the NPC flirting at the character was going over the character's (but not the player's) head, with the rest of us facepalming at how well the intentional awkwardness was done.
Lemme back up. Are you asking about narrative romance/seduction, or roleplayed romance/seduction?
@Xirema Great answer!
@MikeQ I'm...not sure what the difference is?
5:42 PM
Narrative = It is stated that it happens. Maybe the romantic interest NPC is a plot device for character development.
Roleplayed = GM has players interact with the scene, play-by-play. Con saves are probably involved. Folks are typically uncomfortable by the end.
@MikeQ Wis save to avoid awkwardness?
@MikeQ Ah. Talking roleplayed.
@NautArch Sexual encounters done by talking roleplayed usually end up uncomfortable for all at the table even when they are well done hetero encounters. Add in any alternative and it can get awkward fast.
@JohnP Sexual isn't necessarily the same as romantic, but I hear you :)
@NautArch Yeah, I know, but even a romantic encounter if you are not involved has a peeping tom element to it that can overshadow the party.
5:52 PM
Example from my experience: One of the players was the GM's partner. They would have extensive player-NPC interactions to flirt with each other in-game. Fun for them, really awkward for everyone else.
It became punishing for everyone else too because the partner's character was getting bonus XP from these flirting "encounters"
@JohnP Agreed. I was just wondering how prevalent this type of RP was at tables. Just seems like it has hte potential to cause more issues.
@NautArch That really depends on the group and the approach. 90% of the time the groups I was in were "I'm going off to seek ____ companionship for the night. Anyone else in?" with some minor roleplaying to facilitate. 8% ignored it, and 2% played it out. I generally got food or took a break during that. I'm far from a prude, but it just felt...icky.
We had no problem with alternative sex/species/other encounters, it was just the extended play by play.
@NautArch Why bring this up? Curiosity? Or do you have players who have expressed interest in character romance with NPCs (or each other)?
I should also mention that the game/system is relevant here.
If you're dealing with a system where flirting/relationships are expected, then that's kind of a different story than a combat-focused system
@MikeQ this question prompted it. I had asked the OP if they generally had romance roleplay at their table.
Whether or not I'd be comfortable with sexuality and romance in a game would definitely vary group to group and game to game.
In many dynamics it will be awkward or have issues and I'd rather leave it aside at those points.
6:09 PM
[slowly reaches for Monsterhearts rulebook]
6:23 PM
@doppelspooker What about a challenge where the players need to write a love note
@MikeQ That's fine by me, you dont have to face to face roleplay romance with your friends. Composing a sext however....
I only roleplay romance with my enemies
Q: Can a huge bird (STR 15, <1000lbs) really fly off with a Brontosaurus (>30000lbs)?

BehacadI am a druid shaped into a Quetzalcoatlus, a huge flying creature. I see a Brontosaurus and know I can grapple a creature up to one size larger (up to gargantuan). To everyone's surprise, I succeed in grappling the mighty beast despite it's imense strength. I decide to try flying off with the Br...

Have we had the conversation yet about whether this is really a question of how he grips it?
@nitsua60 By the husk?
African or European Quetzalcoatlus?
It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios!
6:39 PM
@MikeQ Maybe D&D brontosauri have very light bones :P
@SirCinnamon damn it man
@MikeQ Ah, so I see you come with your mind made up =)
I was double-checking the continents so I could say "Faerunian or Zakharan quetzalcoatlus"
@Carcer I could see that being the opening line of an Oglaf comic
6:57 PM
@nitsua60 that...is good point. going to add that.
@nitsua60 - I still don't get why my pun cheese post has so many downvotes.
(You're at a +21 btw)
@nitsua60 Not sure where I get this from, but our old rule of thumb was "one size smaller or flying critter can't carry another critter"
@KorvinStarmast Boooo no answering in comments
Flagged as chatty. :p
Besides, lack of research. Isn't Volo's all new monsters?
7:12 PM
@JohnP Nay, many of them have been in earlier editions in some form
7:23 PM
dangit. anyone have that D&D sport feed that popped up? I closed the noti bar thinking it was a question, not an rss.
oh hai, just realized I got a famous question badge. cool.
@MikeQ DnD eSports seems... problematic to me
7:42 PM
How do D&D tournaments work?
Is it like going through a puzzle dungeon or something?
7:57 PM
Historically it was more like score attack. GMs provided with modules, some variance like wandering monsters and damage rolls were standardized, and points were awarded for getting to the end and finding/doing certain things.
This version seems to be a best of 3 arena fight?
How do people feel about the title on that Sexuality question? I know there's going to be a few downvote fairies from the usual suspects, but one of the comments on that question did raise the concern that "homosexual" can have a derogatory implication when used outside of an academic context, and that that might explain some of the downvotes. I'm not sure what a better title would be, given that concern.
@Xirema Could change it to LGBTQ?
How common are LGBTQ...
@NautArch That was my first thought, but the grammar of the title would need to change as well.
"How common are LGBTQ Identities in the Forgotten Realms?"?
@Xirema yeah, i think that'd be okay,.
We can probably leave the body of the question alone, since it's more obvious in context that the OP is speaking from a curiosity/respectful position, and not from a position of bad faith.
8:24 PM
yeah, anyone who takes exception to it has the problem on their own side of the screen
@Carcer Well, I mean, I did sort of have a twitch reflex of "oh dear" when I first saw the question pop up, and it wasn't until I read the actual text of the question that I could be confident the OP was asking a good-faith question. The word "Homosexual" has a well established and intended use in academia (although not always...), but outside that context, its colloquial use is a lot more loaded and dog-whistle-y.
the problem with colloquial use is that it varies
and I did mean the current version of the question, I could understand brief trepidation on the original title but the actual body should dispel concerns
Last I checked the current inclusive abbreviation is LGBTQIA+ (which can be re-arranged to spell QUILTBAG+, to varying levels of amusement), or "queer" is being used as a catchall by many in the community, but interestingly the question isn't asking about the T/I/A/+ community, just L/G/(and presumably B) folks.
8:41 PM
@MikeQ Jokes often get a pass on that, but the joke has to get a good reception. Perhaps this one wasn't a good enough joke.
@BESW "queer" is what I tend to prefer because the effort to "reclaim" it from being a slur has been really extensive and even successful (to a point), but I definitely know that some communities still don't particularly like it, and I can't say I don't understand why.
Because people are not homogenous in even the smallest groups?
@KorvinStarmast Satirical answers are still shaped like responses, thus they are answers
@BESW I mean everyone is homogenous in that we are all people, but I agree. I don't like labelling people in most any way (apart from facilitating society like grouping by income for tax purposes). It is a divisive endeavor for many categorizations and we should be focusing on the individual.
@DavidCoffron Labelling is important, though
8:46 PM
@Ash What kind of labelling?
It's more just that a lot of people still use the term in a derogatory context, and "reclaiming" a slur is a really difficult and often unsuccessful process. If you're going to use a word or phrase as a way of describing someone, the meaning and intent needs to transcend its context.
@DavidCoffron grouping people
Labelling is sometimes important in a logistical setting, but not in an interpersonal setting
Some feel that an all-encompassing term for all underrepresented forms of orientation/gender is a problem because it erases the distinctions and defines them primarily as underrepresented.
Like not sticking stickers on other peple's heads
8:46 PM
Others feel that reclaiming a slur is leaning into a problem rather than leaning into a solution.
but letting me stick the stickers on my own head and letting me talk about my stickers as appropriate
@Ash Just don't stick stickers on anyone's head unless they ask
Well, yes
But allowing me to self-sticker and claim my truth is important
@BESW There are definitely arguments to be had on this subject.
@DavidCoffron MSDS labels should be on everything, and people are a subset of everything
8:47 PM
@Ash Oh self-label away. But recognize that other people may use that label to mean other things
@DavidCoffron well, yes, such is descriptive language?
@Xirema It mirrors discussions in neuroatypical and indigenous communities.
@Ash The problem is if a bunch of people call themselves broomstick-lovers, some of them may just like playing Quidditch, but some of them may be more fetishistic. There are many different kinds of broomstick-lovers.
So I hold back judgment on all self-proclaimed broomstick-lovers until I know what kind of broomstick-lover they are
@DavidCoffron I appreciate your point but like....ooooooh wait no okay I see the problem
You're speaking of labels as judgement, I am speaking of them as like...pure description
@MikeQ Over the history of this site, you will find a number of comments that are jokes that have a lot of up votes, and remain under the question as a part of the site's community approval of those joke comments. I have seen dozens of examples.
8:50 PM
@Ash Pure description can lead to stereotypes
@Ash Statistical label? Clinical label?
@MikeQ Kinda?
Even labels with objective intent can be skewed for subjective, judgmental purposes
If I describe myself as an atheist (which I am), some people will immediately clump me in with their version of an atheist without getting to know me.
idk, sorry, I stepped in here before I realized that I'd used all my super articulate spoons elseplace
so I apologize, my ability to words is...not so good today.
@DavidCoffron There are many sects of atheism. There's at least one for each god they don't believe in.
@MikeQ That's not exactly what I meant, but it made me laugh so +1
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